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  1. #1
    Community Member Zachski's Avatar
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    Default Pure Paladin vs. Pure Warpriest

    Cleric or FVS, pick whichever fancies you the most.

    And yes, I know that multiclassing is the bitter flavor of the month. Humor my curiosity :P

    The Paladin, the shining knight of the gods, and yet his divine blade is but a dim candle compared to the Fighter's shining steel.
    The Warpriest. A spellcaster turned melee, charismatic if not as wise as his spellcasting counterparts.

    One smites evil, the undead, and/or evil demons and devils.
    The other smiles all who stand before them.

    Who will win the theorycraft debate!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?

    My gut says Warpriest based off of very little information.
    Once I get my moods under control, I might actually get a character past level 7... ooh, shiny!

    Paladins got some love! Now for Warpriests...

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachski View Post
    The Paladin, the shining knight of the gods, and yet his divine blade is but a dim candle compared to the Fighter's shining steel.
    The announced new version of Paladin does quite outshine a pure class Fighter!

  3. #3
    Community Member Zachski's Avatar
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    That's fantastic news if that's true!
    Once I get my moods under control, I might actually get a character past level 7... ooh, shiny!

    Paladins got some love! Now for Warpriests...

  4. #4
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    I would hold out for all the changes coming down the line. Changes to the Paladin and also the Melee Power, feat changes as well as Armor Class changes.

    Once all of this is in place then there can be a discussion on which works better.

  5. #5
    Community Member Zachski's Avatar
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    Incidentally, until U23 comes out... I'm thinking of breaking out of my irrational hatred of multiclass characters. Maybe I want to play a "holy knight" that combines Warpriest and either of Paladin's trees (I quite like the flavorful concept of KOTC getting extra damage against any evil enemy)

    So either Paladin/Cleric or Paladin/FVS. Probably the latter due to Charisma and SP-based Divine Might.

    And maybe a couple of Fighter levels thrown in for, what was it, Haste Boost?

    So Paladin/FVS/Fighter. What's a good split there? I'd prefer to keep Fighter levels down to 2.
    Once I get my moods under control, I might actually get a character past level 7... ooh, shiny!

    Paladins got some love! Now for Warpriests...

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachski View Post
    Incidentally, until U23 comes out... I'm thinking of breaking out of my irrational hatred of multiclass characters. Maybe I want to play a "holy knight" that combines Warpriest and either of Paladin's trees (I quite like the flavorful concept of KOTC getting extra damage against any evil enemy)

    So either Paladin/Cleric or Paladin/FVS. Probably the latter due to Charisma and SP-based Divine Might.

    And maybe a couple of Fighter levels thrown in for, what was it, Haste Boost?

    So Paladin/FVS/Fighter. What's a good split there? I'd prefer to keep Fighter levels down to 2.
    14 Pally/4 Fvs/2 Fighter.

    14 Pally gives you cure serious and the new Holy Sword spell (will be a must-have for primarily Pally splits).
    4 FvS for Ameliorating strike and magical training feat for spell point regen up to 12 (good enough for cure serious).
    2 Fighter grants 2 extra selectable feats on top of "free" tower shields.

    I'd go 2wpn on this build for offhand procs on your ameliorating strikes attacks for even better healing. Max your Healing Amp and be sure to slot devotion somewhere. Should hit for fairly decent dps and have very good survivability with built-in heals, decent spell point pool, and be able to take full advantage of the new heavy armor changes coming (better damage mitigation through MRR). I've considered something similar myself....

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by XodousRoC View Post
    14 Pally/4 Fvs/2 Fighter.

    14 Pally gives you cure serious and the new Holy Sword spell (will be a must-have for primarily Pally splits).
    4 FvS for Ameliorating strike and magical training feat for spell point regen up to 12 (good enough for cure serious).
    2 Fighter grants 2 extra selectable feats on top of "free" tower shields.

    I'd go 2wpn on this build for offhand procs on your ameliorating strikes attacks for even better healing. Max your Healing Amp and be sure to slot devotion somewhere. Should hit for fairly decent dps and have very good survivability with built-in heals, decent spell point pool, and be able to take full advantage of the new heavy armor changes coming (better damage mitigation through MRR). I've considered something similar myself....
    I'd go 15 Pali/4FVS/1Ftr instead. I think that the 10% doublestrike from Zeal (needs 2nd 4th level spell slot) is better than any Fighter bonus feat you could get. 1 Fighter still gives you a feat, extra action boost and haste boost.

  8. #8
    Community Member Zachski's Avatar
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    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Holy Knight
    Level 28 Lawful Good Human Male
    (1 Fighter \ 15 Paladin \ 4 Favored Soul \ 8 Epic) 
    Hit Points: 439
    Spell Points: 751 
    BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
    Fortitude: 27
    Reflex: 21
    Will: 18
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 28)
    Strength             16                    30
    Dexterity            15                    19
    Constitution         14                    18
    Intelligence          8                     8
    Wisdom                8                    12
    Charisma             15                    24
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 6
    +1 Tome of Charisma used at level 6
    +4 Tome of Strength used at level 21
    +4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 21
    +4 Tome of Constitution used at level 21
    +4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 21
    +4 Tome of Charisma used at level 21
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 28)
    Balance               2                    12
    Bluff                 2                    15
    Concentration         2                    12
    Diplomacy             2                    15
    Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
    Haggle                2                    15
    Heal                  3                    32
    Hide                  2                    12
    Intimidate            6                    35
    Jump                  3                    18
    Listen               -1                     9
    Move Silently         2                    12
    Open Lock             n/a                  n/a
    Perform               n/a                  n/a
    Repair               -1                     7
    Search               -1                     7
    Spellcraft           -1                     7
    Spot                 -1                     9
    Swim                  3                    18
    Tumble                n/a                  n/a
    Use Magic Device      n/a                  n/a
    
    Level 1 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Sovereign Host
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Power Attack
    Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 2 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 3 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    
    
    Level 4 (Favored Soul)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Spell (1): Remove Fear
    Spell (1): Divine Favor
    
    
    Level 5 (Favored Soul)
    Spell (1): Shield of Faith
    
    
    Level 6 (Favored Soul)
    Spell (1): Obscuring Mist
    
    
    Level 7 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 8 (Favored Soul)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds
    
    
    Level 9 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
    Spell (1): Bless
    Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
    Spell (1): Lesser Restoration
    Spell (1): Lionheart
    Spell (1): Protection from Evil
    Spell (1): Resistance
    Spell (1): Seek Eternal Rest
    Spell (1): Virtue
    
    
    Level 10 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 11 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 12 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 13 (Paladin)
    Spell (2): Angelskin
    Spell (2): Bull's Strength
    Spell (2): Eagle's Splendor
    Spell (2): Owl's Wisdom
    Spell (2): Remove Paralysis
    Spell (2): Resist Energy
    
    
    Level 14 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 15 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
    
    
    Level 16 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Spell (3): Dispel Magic
    Spell (3): Magic Circle Against Evil
    Spell (3): Prayer
    Spell (3): Remove Blindness
    Spell (3): Remove Curse
    
    
    Level 17 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 18 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 19 (Paladin)
    Spell (4): Break Enchantment
    Spell (4): Cure Serious Wounds
    Spell (4): Death Ward
    Spell (4): Holy Sword
    Spell (4): Neutralize Poison
    Spell (4): Restoration
    Spell (4): Stalwart Pact
    Spell (4): Zeal
    
    
    Level 20 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 21 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical
    
    
    Level 22 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 23 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 24 (Epic)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Selected) Epic: Great Strength
    
    
    Level 25 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 26 (Epic)
    Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 27 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Epic: Great Strength
    
    
    Level 28 (Epic)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Holy Strike
    Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Damage Boost (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Human - Human Adaptability: Strength (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Defense Boost (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Human - Human Adaptability: Charisma (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Human - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Hunter of the Dead I (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Courage of Heaven (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Hunter of the Dead II (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Remove Disease (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Remove Disease (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Remove Disease (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Smite (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Smite (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Smite (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Smite (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Improved Restoration (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Sacrifice (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Sacrifice (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Sacrifice (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Vigor of Life (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Exalted Smite (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Exalted Smite (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Exalted Smite (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Strength (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Vigor of Life (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Charisma (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Vigor of Life (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Holy Retribution (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Holy Retribution (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Holy Retribution (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Sealed Life (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Smite Foe (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Divine Might (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Divine Might (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Divine Might (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Toughness (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Toughness (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Toughness (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Smite Weakness (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Wall of Steel (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Wall of Steel (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Wall of Steel (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Inflame (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Inflame (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Inflame (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Burden of Sin (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Burden of Sin (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Burden of Sin (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Charisma (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Ameliorating Strike (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Charisma (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
    Okay, so, um... how about this build?

    I may have missed some things, and I'm not sure my enhancements are entirely optimized, but that's why I'm posting it here.

    I intentionally didn't plan for any intelligence tomes.

    Um... hm...

    Any critiques about my level order and such? Feats I took? Feats I didn't take?

    I was gonna see if Sacred Defender had anything for this build, but the only offensive additions require you to wear a shield... which obviously I cannot.

    If Khopeshes are no longer the Best TWF Weapon Type Ever, then please let me know so that I may amend that. There may have been a few things I missed.
    Once I get my moods under control, I might actually get a character past level 7... ooh, shiny!

    Paladins got some love! Now for Warpriests...

  9. #9
    Community Member SealedInSong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XodousRoC View Post
    14 Pally/4 Fvs/2 Fighter.

    14 Pally gives you cure serious and the new Holy Sword spell (will be a must-have for primarily Pally splits).
    Do you have a link for this change?
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  10. #10
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    There are several threads in the official discussions forum; this thread covers the changes to Holy Sword: "Weapons you currently are wielding gain an additional +2 holy bonus to enhancement value and +1[W]. The spell also gives a +1 Competent (sic) bonus to the threat range and critical weapon multiplier of the weapon." You need to be pal lvl 14 to get lvl 4 spells; pal 15 gives you two lvl 4 slots (HS + Zeal). Expect to see a lot more pally 15+ builds if/when this change goes live.

  11. #11
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachski View Post
    Okay, so, um... how about this build?
    You're missing your lvl 6 feat, which ought to be Great Cleave, which lets you move IC:Slash to lvl 9. Rather than Gtr STR, I would recommend a couple of metamagics, like Quicken+Emp Heal.

  12. #12
    Community Member Zachski's Avatar
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    Wait what? I could've sworn I took a feat at that level.

    Also, I wasn't sure what to do with the Epic Feats. Thanks.
    Once I get my moods under control, I might actually get a character past level 7... ooh, shiny!

    Paladins got some love! Now for Warpriests...

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