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  1. #1
    The Hatchery serthcore's Avatar
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    Default U22 Crusader Bardpriest

    This build is inspired in the old Warpriest Crusader: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ader-Warpriest
    For everyone who enjoyed it ot made a variation of it, here's what i came up in u22 with the introduction of swashbuckler opness and the fix to magic backslash w/ FoL.
    Playstile remains the same, melee single target dps with AOE fire/light.

    I'll present it in the same format as the old one.




    Pros/cons compared to the old one:
    - Better melee dps: 15-20 x4 crit with light picks with single handed fighting and swashbuckler bonuses, doublestrikes.
    - 12 seconds no fail (almost) single target instakill
    - Better CC thanks to fascinate.
    - Ofensive casting aspect remains the same: Energy burst, consecration + castigation, Celestial bombardement, Hellball, Archon
    - Better melee defenses: +800 hp, 24 dodge, +80 PRR, 10% Ghostly, 50% displacement (clickies)
    - Worse saves: partially fixed with twists gained (ill post them when i cap)


    The build

    Human, True neutral 12 fvs / 6 Bard /2 Rogue

    STR 15
    DEX 13
    CON 14
    INT 9
    WIS 8
    CHA 18 + lvl ups


    Feats (in no particular order) 8 Human +3 epics +2 ED feats
    Precision
    Completionism
    Single handed fighting x3
    Quicken
    Maximize
    Ruin
    Improved crit piercing
    Shield Mastery*
    Imp shield mastery*
    Hellball (ed feat at 28)
    Epic twf (ed feat at 26)
    Sovereing host favored weapon line

    * Switch to empower and overwhelming critical feat if they get nerfed/fixed

    Skills: In order of importance: Spellcraft, Perform, UMD, heal, balance, concentration.


    Enhacements:
    -Human: damage boost, +1 charisma +10% healing amp, 5 AP's
    -AOV: All the cores till archon, scourge, just reward, +3 saves, smiting line, +2 charisma, intense faith (28~ APs)
    - Swashbuckler: all the possible cores, skirmisher, +2 cha, low blow, all the tier 5's. (42~ APs)
    - Warpriest: divine might 4 AP's

    Epic Destiny: Divine Crusader

    t1 Bane of Undeath (or +1 cha), Interrogation, Purge the wicked
    t2: Consecration, Flames of purity
    t3: Empyrean Magic, Sacred Ground
    t4. No Regret, Crusade,
    t5 Celestial Champion, Castigation
    t6 Celestial Bombardement
    * Pick heavenly presence on ee wgu.

    Twists:
    Energy burst (fire), haste boost if fire inmune mobs
    Legendary shield mastery
    Dragonhide / Unearthy reactions/Brace for impact (pick 2 of them depending on quest)



    Gear idea:
    Mostly the same as the old one

    Mainhand: Wyrm Light pick: Touch of flames, Dragons edge, Mortal fear
    Buckler: Kobold Admiral's Tiller

    Head: Dragon masque + Yellow + Colorless
    Goggles: Sages spectacles + colorless
    Body: Shadow dragon armor + Blue + green
    Ring: Guardians Ring + yellow
    RIng: Lantern Ring + colorless + green
    Bracers: 20% healing amp of superior parrying
    Gloves: Iron mittis
    Belt: battleragers + green
    Boots: +x stat, + seeking + slot
    Trinket: Litany of the death
    Cloak: Cloak of the wolf?

    Videos/Pics/Others

    Work in progress!
    Last edited by serthcore; 08-11-2014 at 03:42 PM.
    Argo: - Trolls Lair / Intransigence

  2. #2
    Community Member Purkilius's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    I like it just might borrow this 1 getting really bored with ranged

    I do not like picks what weapons would you use for heroic if picks are out?
    Argo: Hilmir - Purkilius - Jinu - Vignir

  3. #3
    The Hatchery serthcore's Avatar
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    Default

    Whatever weapon that gets swashbuckler bonuses get a very nice crit profile. I used a greensteel rapier while leveling, and had a Razorend on an alt: http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Razorend (this one gets 13-20 x3 crit).
    Btw, adding 6 bard to any build will make it level pretty quickly at all levels, this is quite useful for non casters.
    Argo: - Trolls Lair / Intransigence

  4. #4
    The Hatchery Vissarion's Avatar
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    Once they change/fix shield mastery, the silver lining is that they're planning to remove the prereqs for Overwhelming Critical, so you could pick that up along with empower.

    Also, I assume that you'll just be going with charisma as your damage stat through swashbuckler? Or do you still plan to pick up Divine Might through warpriest?
    Last edited by Vissarion; 08-11-2014 at 02:15 PM.
    Order of the Silver Dragons||Argonessen
    Vratch||~Terevorn~||Ignys||Zofya||Virochka
    Theologians don't know nothin' about my soul.

  5. #5
    The Hatchery serthcore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vissarion View Post
    Once they change/fix shield mastery, the silver lining is that they're planning to remove the prereqs for Overwhelming Critical, so you could pick that up along with empower.

    Also, I assume that you'll just be going with charisma as your damage stat through swashbuckler? Or do you still plan to pick up Divine Might through warpriest?
    I forgot actually about overwhelming critical, and i forgot about divine might. I use divine might and my str ends up higher than my charisma. Thanks, ill update the OP
    Argo: - Trolls Lair / Intransigence

  6. #6
    2015 DDO Players Council FuzzyDuck81's Avatar
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    Looks good - I was considering something with a similar level split etc. but drow since shortswords count for swashbuckling & could get the favoured weapon bonuses, which would also help boost spellpower through the implement bonus in AoV.
    I don't mean to come across as unsympathetic - but I am, so I do.

  7. #7
    The Hatchery serthcore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FuzzyDuck81 View Post
    Looks good - I was considering something with a similar level split etc. but drow since shortswords count for swashbuckling & could get the favoured weapon bonuses, which would also help boost spellpower through the implement bonus in AoV.
    I was thinking about that, but there's simply no room on APs to get everything. That swashbuckler tree is so good!
    And you don't need implement bonus in Aov if you have some spellpower augment in your weapon.
    Argo: - Trolls Lair / Intransigence

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purkilius View Post
    I like it just might borrow this 1 getting really bored with ranged

    I do not like picks what weapons would you use for heroic if picks are out?
    for heroics,
    http://ddowiki.com/page/Tiefling_Assassin%27s_Blade

    never gets old.

    ML 4 13-20 x3 works very well in almost all content(except maybe undead)

  9. #9
    The Hatchery Vissarion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArcaneArcher52689 View Post
    for heroics,
    http://ddowiki.com/page/Tiefling_Assassin%27s_Blade

    never gets old.

    ML 4 13-20 x3 works very well in almost all content(except maybe undead)
    Yup, and follow it up with the Heroic Elite Skullsmasher for 15-20 x4 smashin' goodness.
    Order of the Silver Dragons||Argonessen
    Vratch||~Terevorn~||Ignys||Zofya||Virochka
    Theologians don't know nothin' about my soul.

  10. #10
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by serthcore View Post
    - Better melee dps: 15-20 x4 crit with light picks with single handed fighting and swashbuckler bonuses, doublestrikes.
    I think you've overestimated this: base light pick crit is 20 x4; Swashbuckling provides +1 crit range to make it 19-20 x4; IC:Pierce doubles that to 17-20 x4. [Exploit Weakness provides a stacking crit range bonus on every non-crit hit, but that applies to any weapon.] AFAIK, Sky Pirate's Dagger, Skullsmasher, and Balizarde are the only weapons which wind up w/15-20 x4 crits on a Swashbuckler. EDIT: in another thread I think we concluded EE Skullsmasher pulled a bit ahead on DPS; but Balizarde has some nice static bonuses (saves on gear slots) and you need it if you want a Planar Conflux set. Since Balizarde is keen, though, it's easy enough to take IC:Blunt for Skullsmasher and switch to Bali if/when you need it.

    EDIT: oops, I forgot about Brush Hook; that becomes 13-20 x4 w/Swashbuckling and IC:Slash, but you need to take kama prof. as well to avoid to-hit penalty.
    Last edited by unbongwah; 08-12-2014 at 05:07 PM.

  11. #11
    The Hatchery serthcore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    I think you've overestimated this: base light pick crit is 20 x4; Swashbuckling provides +1 crit range to make it 19-20 x4; IC:Pierce doubles that to 17-20 x4. [Exploit Weakness provides a stacking crit range bonus on every non-crit hit, but that applies to any weapon.] AFAIK, Sky Pirate's Dagger, Skullsmasher, and Balizarde are the only weapons which wind up w/15-20 x4 crits on a Swashbuckler. EDIT: in another thread I think we concluded EE Skullsmasher pulled a bit ahead on DPS; but Balizarde has some nice static bonuses (saves on gear slots) and you need it if you want a Planar Conflux set. Since Balizarde is keen, though, it's easy enough to take IC:Blunt for Skullsmasher and switch to Bali if/when you need it.

    EDIT: oops, I forgot about Brush Hook; that becomes 13-20 x4 w/Swashbuckling and IC:Slash, but you need to take kama prof. as well to avoid to-hit penalty.
    Don't forget that crusader gives an extra crit range that stacks with swashbuckler.
    Edit: i stick to picks because i like thunderforged weapons the most, and 15-20 x4 seems slightly better than 13-20 x3 on the rest. but i'm not a math expert, i might be wrong
    Argo: - Trolls Lair / Intransigence

  12. #12
    The Hatchery serthcore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by serthcore View Post
    Don't forget that crusader gives an extra crit range that stacks with swashbuckler.
    Edit: i stick to picks because i like thunderforged weapons the most, and 15-20 x4 seems slightly better than 13-20 x3 on the rest. but i'm not a math expert, i might be wrong
    Anyway, weapon of choice is not that important on this build as long as it gets swashbuckler stance benefits, drow/citw/gh/thunderforged weapons are good.
    Argo: - Trolls Lair / Intransigence

  13. #13
    The Hatchery Vissarion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by serthcore View Post
    Don't forget that crusader gives an extra crit range that stacks with swashbuckler.
    Edit: i stick to picks because i like thunderforged weapons the most, and 15-20 x4 seems slightly better than 13-20 x3 on the rest. but i'm not a math expert, i might be wrong
    Yep, 15-20 x4 gives an effective 18 crit power versus 16 for 13-20 x3. Pretty close, but still a significant chunk of damage in favor of the pick.
    Order of the Silver Dragons||Argonessen
    Vratch||~Terevorn~||Ignys||Zofya||Virochka
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  14. #14
    Community Member -Zyxas-'s Avatar
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    To be slightly on topic, I think the build sounds interesting and not hideously gimp. But unfortunately, that's not really why I posted... It's because (one of) Swashbuckler's main allure(s) is bonuses to crit range and multiplier, and I have some beef on this subject.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vissarion View Post
    Yep, 15-20 x4 gives an effective 18 crit power versus 16 for 13-20 x3. Pretty close, but still a significant chunk of damage in favor of the pick.
    I've seen some of your comments before about "crit power", and it sounds pretty unmeaningful. What is 18? What is 16? Sure, it has something to do with your crits and your damage (extra damage you get from crits compared to if you never critted), but it's not useful for calculating damage per swing, only for comparing what is "better", as your "crit power" is based on the amount of numbers on a 20-sided die. Why not calculate the average main-hit damage per swing based on hits, misses, and crits, and have "1" be the base main-hit damage?

    A weapon with no possible critting (Boulders in Abbot) have a 0%/x2 profile, which means they do 100% damage on anything but a miss. They get .95x listed damage per hit on average (lose 5% damage from missing on a 1). You'd say its "crit power" is 0, because 0*any multiplier is zero, but I add in the misses and non-crits as well, and divide by 20 so it's average damage rather than a strange rating based only on "bonus" damage.

    A weapon with 10%/x2 gets .2x its listed damage from crits on average, and .85x its listed damage from non-crit hits on average, and when you roll a 1 you do no damage, so does 1.05 listed damage per average hit. You would calculate this with "crit power" as 2 (crit range, on the 20-sided die) * 1 (extra multiplier of damage from critting) = 2 Crit Power. But this is not 1/9 the damage of a weapon with 18 Crit Power; it is actually 1.05/1.85 = 56.8% of that weapon's damage (not factoring in any differences in base damage, seeker, sneak attacks, proc damage, etc).

    15-20/x4 (30%/x4) is .3*4 = 1.2x from crits, and .65*1 = .65x from regular hits, for an average of 1.85x listed damage per swing. Starting from "Crit Power" = 18:
    18/20 + 20/20 -1/20 = 37/20 = 1.85 listed damage per swing on average.
    13-20/x3 (40%/x3) is .4*3 = 1.2x from crits, and .55*1 = .55x from regular hits, for an average of 1.75x listed damage per swing. Yes, the 30%/x4 is better, although proc effects that rely on crit range and not multiplier favor the 40%/x3.

    If you have questions, I'll be here. I hope this makes sense and is useful. Better to run calculations with this critical profile number that uses misses, hits, and crits, than bonus damage gained from crits over some 20 hits that include 1 roll of each number.
    DISCLAIMER: Forums are a place of help - and of opposition... I'm not attempting to spark hostility. I state my opinions because I think they are useful. It is the reader's choice whether to adopt my opinions. I want to show people different reasoning and options so they can enjoy the game more fully. Usually this leads to walls of text. Sorry.

  15. #15
    The Hatchery Vissarion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Zyxas- View Post
    Snip.
    It's a rule of thumb I use, not calculus.

    In any case, your conclusion ends up in the same place as mine. In this instance, it's only a matter of determining if the extra sonic damage on crit from Resonant Arms ends up being more per attack than the extra crit multipliers.

    As for the thing about my previous comments, I must commend you on your excellent memory. I haven't really been active on the boards over the past year or more, so I honestly would not have the faintest idea when I last made an offhand reference to crit power.
    Order of the Silver Dragons||Argonessen
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  16. #16
    2015 DDO Players Council FuzzyDuck81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by serthcore View Post
    I was thinking about that, but there's simply no room on APs to get everything. That swashbuckler tree is so good!
    And you don't need implement bonus in Aov if you have some spellpower augment in your weapon.
    Yeah APs are a tricky one.. that character of mine would basically be more pure melee, using swashbuckler, enough in warpriest for the tier 4 righteous weapons & ameliorating strike then only just enough in AoV for the holy weapon thing, so pretty far off from the overall concept you're going for. I know about slotting spellpower in the weapon, but... but... then you can't throw in a different augment for MOAR DPS!

    Weapon-wise, light picks certainly seem to be the optimal, but personally my preference runs towards sheer quantity of criticals so i'd still usually go shortswords... essentially identical to rapiers for a swashbuckler, but with the added bonus of letting me stay centered if i TR with monk levels involved Oh, and that mutineers rapier is a little crazy in crusader, 11-20 basic crit range even before exploit weakness, which incidentally is functionally actually a +2 crit range for every non-crit, since it appears to apply it to the base crit range which IC then doubles.
    I don't mean to come across as unsympathetic - but I am, so I do.

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