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  1. #41
    Community Member LeadHero5's Avatar
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    Default Not as much as there used to be...

    I'm one of the lucky ones in intruder1's group. I play for the fun of being part of a team; not how fast can I complete. If you want to play a D&D style, you'll have to find or make one. There are several other 'less than optimal' groups down there in PD and Static. Come, join us!!!


    Originally posted by Aeryyn "I don't play this game for xp/min, I play for fun/hour. "

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreataxeUser View Post
    That is what makes Dungeons and Dragons so well made as it took 40 years for it to be fine tuned to be so excellent for its Rules and mechanics be what they are Today. Dungeons and Dragons stands out and is number one over all other Fantasy Games. This online version of it already had 32 years of hard work already done for it and used V 3.5 rules as a base when it first became use-able on a computer rather than pencil and paper version. I have been here since 2007 and I have my opinions on how this online version could be better, but overall it is the best choice so far for a Dungeons and Dragons video game, even though I have opinions of certain aspects of the game.
    More like 40 years (probably closer to 30 years as the first years development actually was about the game) of thinking up new things players are willing to buy. Many of those things, IMO, actually making the game worse.

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreataxeUser View Post
    If I was to win inherent billions of dollars, and I bought this game and became CEO, this person would be the first person I would hire to run this Game.

    I respect this person and is one of the few like me, who think outside the box and have clarity of what this game should be. I also understand the many troll sheople whom think they are in the right by denying the ideas of this person and I feel the pain. With all do respect this community needs to listen to this person more often. I am referring to LeslieWest_GuitarGod because this person is pure of heart and for some reason this community has not realized who this person is!
    Thank you Greataxe, that was really kind of you to say those words.

    Listen, to me, kicking ass in DDO is all about how much fun you have playing the game. People that think this way should NEVER have a problem finding good peeps to run with in DDO regardless which server they are on and if they do, know for SURE they'll have a spot to run in Tyrs Paladium, or any other Ghallanda Fellowship alliance guild.
    Last edited by LeslieWest_GuitarGod; 08-11-2014 at 01:57 AM.


    TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Dungeons & Dragons Online Guild
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  4. #44
    2015 DDO Players Council Seikojin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    D&D and DDO have been a great marriage. Sure they have simplified and MMOified the game a bit for the young gamer today who cant be bothered to read a manual, who wants everything handed to them for free or for a reasonable price in the store.

    However, DDO from levels 1-20 is still the closest to D&D that was ever done in my eyes, taken from a wide angle lens.

    I still feel like I'm rolling D&D characters, that I can play with a team. I can hear them .. I can FEEL the thrill of victory or the agony of defeat. The interface doesn't ever get in my way. I can see in real time what I'm imagining in my head. I can schedule content, build the "army", and slay the enemies!

    DDO is STILL the shiznitz for me.
    This.

    Honestly, sometimes it is easy to lose sight on how good ddo is. And then you tr, run threnal at level, and pay attention in order to succeed and yu realize just how close to the PnP feel ddo has going.

  5. #45
    The Hatchery Hoglum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreataxeUser View Post
    I am referring to LeslieWest_GuitarGod because this person is pure of heart and for some reason this community has not realized who this person is!

    I'm pretty sure that's Andre the Giant.

    Back on topic, I really like Sir Valentine's response. Pure awesome.

    Personally I still generally start with concept & fit the rules in as best I can. Leveling up my Cleric/Fighter/Mage currently. I also have some pure class characters.

    I still feel like a GOD because I just play on casual 3 levels over dungeon rating. haha, jk.

  6. #46
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreataxeUser View Post
    If I was to win inherent billions of dollars, and I bought this game and became CEO, this person would be the first person I would hire to run this Game.

    I respect this person and is one of the few like me, who think outside the box and have clarity of what this game should be. I also understand the many troll sheople whom think they are in the right by denying the ideas of this person and I feel the pain. With all do respect this community needs to listen to this person more often. I am referring to LeslieWest_GuitarGod because this person is pure of heart and for some reason this community has not realized who this person is!
    Some of us do know and hold Leslie in high regard (surprise we do agree on something)

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

  7. #47
    Community Member Vinven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by medielots View Post
    So I'm not trying to make this entire thing sound like one big complaint, but I'm just curious.

    I've come and gone with DDO over the past few years so maybe I have looked in the wrong places, but I'm wondering if there are still people who will make a character just because they think it sounds fun (I'm looking at you throwing knife fighters). It just feels to me like the only way to play is to do the same thing as everyone else, take the two levels of rogue for evasion, put all your stats in a certain way. No one plays purists because it isn't optimum. Does anyone not care about the optimal toon and just play what they want?

    I always thought it was kind of fun to try to overcome the challenges with a unique group of characters but it just kind of looks like everyone plays the same way. DDO has always been unique for letting you build a unique character that you can play with. You want to cast spells and swing that battle axe? you go right ahead. Throwing knife fighters? bring em!

    I'm just wondering if the community still accepts players who aren't looking to be the "perfect" toon, but just to have fun.

    Again I'm not really writing a big complaint, just curious

    /endrant
    I think you shouldn't be concerned with how other people are playing the game.

    To answer your question though, I play my characters for fun without using any kind of min/max build. I have a melee favored soul who uses a sword and shield, which is based off of a D&D character I played.

  8. #48
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinven View Post
    I think you shouldn't be concerned with how other people are playing the game.

    To answer your question though, I play my characters for fun without using any kind of min/max build. I have a melee favored soul who uses a sword and shield, which is based off of a D&D character I played.
    Good for you! More should do the same +1

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

  9. #49

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    I typically build whatever character sounds interesting to me and I typically don't follow the strongest build paths. I like to explore the different classes and races and I typically make pure class builds myself and I have no objections or issues in helping others who have decided to make "off" builds or characters.

  10. #50
    Community Member Raithe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seikojin View Post
    This.
    Honestly, sometimes it is easy to lose sight on how good ddo is
    There are some things about DDO that were very well done, and really it was most of those things that took someone a LOT of work and thought. The 3D Artists working for Turbine are some of the best, no doubt about it. Their physics engine (which I later learned was outsourced/licensed) is really quite superb. The nice thing about DDO is that you can somewhat use these good things despite the complete lack of attention to game mechanics - you simply have to apply a secondary set of rules to yourself.

    That does not make the overall effort worthy of the old-style D&D brand name (admittedly modern D&D has lost most of its reputation). There is a reason why this game is dwindling in population when 20-year-old 2D games still have 50k+ users worldwide. The actual game design team that Turbine has put in positions of decision-making have been utter jokes, from day one. It's all the same type of people that are still here playing, and still here designing. Their goals are all about making themselves appear uber through statistics manipulation, which hilariously they aren't good at - at all (incompetence breeds insecurity which breeds... MMO players and game designers).

    You'll note that there are several people here trying to make excuses for the Swashbuckler fiasco. Yesterday I decided to try soloing EE High Road on my swashbuckler thinking how sp-intensive and long and resource-hungry the affair was on my sorceror. It was a complete breeze. Not even difficult in the slightest. What they did to the game by "buffing" bards, a class that was already top-of-the-line at group efficiency, was a complete nightmare. The game will NOT be able to recover from the massive incompetence and selfishness that was inflicted.

    The only part worse is that the fools that accomplished the death of DDO think they were doing a public service.
    Last edited by Raithe; 08-14-2014 at 10:27 AM.

  11. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    Thank you Greataxe, that was really kind of you to say those words.

    Listen, to me, kicking ass in DDO is all about how much fun you have playing the game. People that think this way should NEVER have a problem finding good peeps to run with in DDO regardless which server they are on and if they do, know for SURE they'll have a spot to run in Tyrs Paladium, or any other Ghallanda Fellowship alliance guild.
    Leslie here, as my guild's co-leader, knows how I often play in terms of my characters. Readers of my blog know, too.

    Since it's very easy to become bored with the many quests here, having a fixed DM, it's often up to the player and group to spice things up by accomplishing a quest in different ways and/or with different builds. Sure, you can min-max your builds and then slaughter things. Or you can take a different approach and kill very little by using lesser-used skills to great effect. I've become a very good ninja as a result and can beat most of the game with subtlety, not strength.

    D&D has always been about the roles. It's harder to do here, but not impossible if you find like-minded people who play with you. But if everyone plays like this is WoW, then we get less player involvement with storyline and more general slaughter and setting goals based on your character's power, rather than your character's accomplishments.

    There's a LOT of great backstories through both Eberron and FR quests in our game. It's a shame that many miss it because they simply run through it without reading, or are too fixated on this gear and that. A good MMO involves a journey, not necessarily a destination.
    Editor, The Book of Syncletica: An unofficial DDO Monk Guide, and Stormreach Shadows: An unofficial DDO Stealth Guide
    The Order of Syncletica: A DDO-flavored blog on Monks and gameplay and more
    (formerly known as Spencerian)

  12. #52
    Community Member Raithe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spencerian View Post
    Since it's very easy to become bored with the many quests here, having a fixed DM, it's often up to the player and group to spice things up by accomplishing a quest in different ways and/or with different builds.
    Or better yet, pester the developers endlessly to change whatever character you decide to play to BECOME the next FOTM build.

    Yes, I'm rolling my eyes....

  13. #53
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    To add my 2 cents, this game is not tuned so tight that you can't play just about whatever you want and not enjoy yourself. Yes there are some builds that are more optimal than others, but so much of this game (past lives, build, etc...) can all be overcome by gaming skill (which is typical of most MMO's). For some, enjoyment comes from the most efficient/fastest farming multiclass split, for others it's pure, for some it's RP, for others it might be something so wonky that it makes you question how they even achieved their level with that build. Point being, people should play what they enjoy.

    For most min/maxer's, they likely won't find grouping with someone who prefers a slower more casual pace even if they're playing on a cookie cutter build. I think that's the bigger issue than the character creation piece. I have not been in a group in the past two months where someone called out another player on their build choices or refused to group with someone because they were pure. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, but I think almost all qualms come from people who have different "goals" for their gaming (/what they find fun), character creation is such a small part of that.

  14. #54
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Default Seems most appropriate to share this here...

    Due to a brief OT tangent in the Stalwart Defender Changes developer thread, I've been motivated to roll up a Halfling Tank "Stalwart Offender" thematically based off the concept of a heavily armored Kender (I know, Dragonlance doesn't exist in DDO but I don't care!) Taunting (DDO functionally Intiming) the baddies... Sounds like bucket loads of D&Desk RP goodness


    Edit/Update:
    Thus far I'm roughly sketching it out as:

    5 Wiz:
    Extended Blur, Haste & Displacement; EK pre for Imp. Mage Armor & Shield SLAs, Arcane Barrier + Scroll Mastery as self healing will likely only be Scrolls (not sure yet if AP will be available for Dragon Mark heals)

    1 Bard:
    UMD, Swashbuckler 1st core for +1 Dodge, Ref save & MDB + Cutting Jibes (thematically appropriate & effective +3 Intim) {<- hmm... Intim isn't a Will save /facepalm}
    Pending room in AP/max # of trees, maybe 1st core Warchanter for +1 Con & Rough and Ready AC/PRR

    12 Fighter:
    For everything I can get... Tough to dial out AP distributions until I see Vanguard...

    • 2 levels of flex room, probably Fighter but as yet undecided (maybe 2 more Wiz just because I really like DDoor)
    Gear is ytbd
    Last edited by PermaBanned; 08-14-2014 at 02:26 PM.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  15. #55
    Community Member Sloublues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janave View Post
    DDO breaks immersion on too many occasions for me to enjoy it as an RPG
    This is somewhat of an issue for me too. Now, there is a lot of nice dialogue and NPC design, but a little more attention to internal logic in a few places would be nice, as would the occasional additional dialogue option here and there. I mean, really, that Signet Ring quest in the Marketplace. How am I supposed to take this seriously?

    "Oh noes, my ring is ruined! I refuse to pay you any gold! Here, have an object worth hundreds of platinum instead."
    "Grrr, I'll make you pay for cheating me!"

    I'm not actually demanding to take away any particular endquest shinies from players, and I don't want someone to sit down and add dialogue when they could be fixing bugs or creating something that will bring in money. I'm just saying, these are the points in this particular game where I, personally, step back from suspension of disbelief and smirk or shake my head and sigh.


    I've never played actual D&D, but I do enjoy the feel of being in an actual world, with actual characters in the background, in this game. It could be greater, but I appreciate what there is. When I'm in a group with random people, even in a quest I've run a few times before, I'm the one who sometimes hangs around smashing barrels because I like smashing things and, hey, XP. I feel a little bummed when the group rushes on to the big fight and I have to hustle along to help out and interrupt the voiceover. I like an interesting dungeon design or epic landscape, too, even if it isn't the fastest to run through. I like thinking about what my choice of feats or enhancements says about my character, even if I'm deliberately picking the ones that I think will help most over ones that should have more fun flavor. I guess all that counts as enjoying the D&D rather than getting caught up in bald numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spencerian View Post
    A good MMO involves a journey, not necessarily a destination.
    I don't know about MMOs (except if you do have a destination then that's where people will feel free to leave the game), but I will agree about RPGs. Really I guess it applies to games in general.
    L9 Elf Cleric, L7 Dwarf Rogue, L4 Human Ranger (Argonnessen)
    L10 Elf Cleric, L7 Human Ranger, L3 Dwarf Rogue (Ghallanda)

  16. #56
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Default Jk... Mostly... Kinda/sorta...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sloublues View Post
    I've never played actual D&D
    Gah! Blasphemy!

    Probably just as well, actually. Just like movies far too often fall short of the book, so too does DDO too often fall short of D&D.

    But really, you should rectify that short-coming at your earliest convenience... If not sooner
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  17. #57
    Community Member gastric_gnome's Avatar
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    Default Yeee haw!

    Quote Originally Posted by medielots View Post
    So I'm not trying to make this entire thing sound like one big complaint, but I'm just curious.

    I've come and gone with DDO over the past few years so maybe I have looked in the wrong places, but I'm wondering if there are still people who will make a character just because they think it sounds fun (I'm looking at you throwing knife fighters). It just feels to me like the only way to play is to do the same thing as everyone else, take the two levels of rogue for evasion, put all your stats in a certain way. No one plays purists because it isn't optimum. Does anyone not care about the optimal toon and just play what they want?

    I always thought it was kind of fun to try to overcome the challenges with a unique group of characters but it just kind of looks like everyone plays the same way. DDO has always been unique for letting you build a unique character that you can play with. You want to cast spells and swing that battle axe? you go right ahead. Throwing knife fighters? bring em!

    I'm just wondering if the community still accepts players who aren't looking to be the "perfect" toon, but just to have fun.

    Again I'm not really writing a big complaint, just curious

    /endrant

    I tend to play characters based around party balance, (i.e. I will NOT play a rogue if someone in my group is one already.) That to me is the basis of D&D and for me carries over well int DDO. I find too many people treating this game as just another WoW. It saddens me that people are playing this game like every other MMO on the market. D&D is fundamentally about not only the uniqueness of your character, but the part your character plays in the dynamics of the group. And to me D&D has and always will be about the GROUP.
    That's my piece and I have said it.
    A little hard work never killed anyone, right?

  18. #58
    Community Member Skeen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by burningwind View Post
    hmm i thought multiclass is the core of dnd? no?

    btw.. in dnd no one is really pure.. everyone go prestige soon or later... and prestige is another class unlike how they handle it in ddo.
    Multiclass is the norm in DDO, when I played PNP it was highly unusual and the cost often outweighed the benefits to multiclass. Keep in mind specialty classes and subclasses mostly could not multi/dual class. You usually did not see a monk, ranger, ninja, barbarian, or paladin taking another class (I think our DMs were kind of strict on multiclass players). Monks attacked Ninjas on sight let alone had an enhancement tree named Ninja that was part of the Monk class. Maybe DDO should have an Anti-Paladin tree for the Paladin too? I always loved my Anti-Paladin. Paladins had to tithe 30% of their wealth and could only have 1 set of armor/weapons, Barbarians could not use magic items until certain levels back then too. So DDO has simplified the play in some respects but added a ton of other complications (modifiers) as well. Of course the 3.x rules enabled a lot of the nonsense we see today. Most in my crowd back then refused to do any 3.x campaigns because of the cheese it allowed. Ultimately it was up to the DM to put the kibosh on when they viewed something as unbalanced anyway, so we should have just switched to ver 3 but none of my friends wanted to . I've become accustomed to version 3 and above rules in computer games now and realize updated rules were necessary, but I think multiclassing in DDO is way out of hand and doesn't support the spirit of D&D.

    I play classes and races because I like them and not particularly because of how effective they are. I don't really want the game to be as easy as possible by using exploit builds. I would likely never have a Monk/Ranger/Paladin build just so the game was easier. Ranged play seems to be very easy in DDO right now (have only played a ranger once). If I wanted play an auto-aim first person shooter I would get a console and load up COD.
    Last edited by Skeen; 08-15-2014 at 01:14 PM.

  19. #59
    Community Member Knobull's Avatar
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    What I miss about PnP D&D that is missing from DDO is time compression. In PnP we could say, OK, 28 minutes has passed and your curse has expired, you may now proceed. In DDO, I have to go watch TV or read a book for half an hour, then come back and resume my quest when whatever timeout penalty that has been applied expires.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by medielots View Post
    So I'm not trying to make this entire thing sound like one big complaint, but I'm just curious.

    I've come and gone with DDO over the past few years so maybe I have looked in the wrong places, but I'm wondering if there are still people who will make a character just because they think it sounds fun (I'm looking at you throwing knife fighters). It just feels to me like the only way to play is to do the same thing as everyone else, take the two levels of rogue for evasion, put all your stats in a certain way. No one plays purists because it isn't optimum. Does anyone not care about the optimal toon and just play what they want?

    I always thought it was kind of fun to try to overcome the challenges with a unique group of characters but it just kind of looks like everyone plays the same way. DDO has always been unique for letting you build a unique character that you can play with. You want to cast spells and swing that battle axe? you go right ahead. Throwing knife fighters? bring em!

    I'm just wondering if the community still accepts players who aren't looking to be the "perfect" toon, but just to have fun.

    Again I'm not really writing a big complaint, just curious

    /endrant
    If you're concerned with keeping up with the "Joneses", you might care about being optimal. But the vast majority of players don't participate in the forums, aren't in Channels, or playing EE. So certainly there are plenty of players making characters exactly how they want, playing how they want, etc.

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