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  1. #1
    Community Member Nayus's Avatar
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    Default So, what's the incentive to run EEs now?

    CoVs have always been almost the entire reason ever since they were implemented. But now you gain Seeds running Epic Casual...

    XP/time ratio... is bad. You get a bonus the first time through (nice for Iconics!) but so does Epic Normal and even Epic Casual. EEs are now once per life. It doesn't matter how fast you can complete an EE, unless you're 1-shotting everything then EH can always be done faster.

    The Tiered Loot topic definitely has some mixed opinions at Turbine, but it's likely getting discontinued or left aside at this pace, either way it won't affect our lives much... too many casuals complaining they can't powergame.

    Drop Rates seem to be the only thing we have left, but honestly some items seem to hard to drop that I doubt we're making any decent progress by trying EE instead of EH.
    Also, for many quests out there, you can do a EH in half the time and just run it twice, 0% chance of failure and you're getting a lot more XP.

    Then we have Drop Rates for Raids, since those can't be easily repeated but... there's a large different from EN to EH and to EH to EE.
    Epic Elite raids should drop something REALLY awesome and at a GOOD rate (instead of running it 100 times to finally drop an item), how about some (multiple) guaranteed Dragonshard Essences?

  2. #2
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    Well first of all heart seeds are now easy to get. EE is still the way to go if you are farming CoVs. Right now the consumables are meh but Turbine plans to implement more compelling CoV uses in the future. However with all the duping that went on/is going on I wouldn't be surprised if Turbine abandons that plan and creates another new currency.

    I think the drop rates should be given a huge boost in EE across the board to equal out the huge difficulty bump from EH to EE. Instead of drop rates being 3%/4%/5% it should be more like 3%/4%/12%.

    I'd also like to see some nice (not best in slot or required) items/consumables drop on EE and be EE exclusive. Perhaps deathward potions, heal over time potions and the CoV turn ins. Also would love to see cosmetic armor/hats/eyes/pets drop and be EE exclusive.
    Last edited by axel15810; 08-07-2014 at 08:00 PM.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by axel15810 View Post
    Well first of all heart seeds are now easy to get. EE is still the way to go if you are farming CoVs. Right now the consumables are meh but Turbine plans to implement more compelling CoV uses in the future. However with all the duping that went on/is going on I wouldn't be surprised if Turbine abandons that plan and creates another new currency.

    I think the drop rates should be given a huge boost in EE to equal out the huge difficulty bump from EH to EE. Instead of drop rates being 3%/4%/5% it should be more like 3%/4%/12%.
    CoVs won't solve the problem for those wishing to stay at endgame for a while. (EE players or not)
    Raising the drop rate for the ones that, in theory plays the most, is really killing longetivity. And it might even displease some people just as much as if they were adding tiered loot.

    Thanks OP, another fun topic with an outcome that has real consequences on the masses. Though I really believe we already lost this war for real.
    Last edited by Azarddoze; 08-07-2014 at 08:03 PM.
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  4. #4
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Default Insentive inshmentive

    /sigh ... This again?

    If you want to run Elite, run it; if you don't want to, don't.

    I run Norm/Hard when I want easy street completions, I run Elite when I want something more challenging. I'm not sure why any requires a carrot to make them run Elite, because it seems to me if they need a carrot, then they really don't want to be doing it. When I go to the artificial rock wall, regardless of which difficulty I choose the carrot is the same: reaching the top; I choose the hard side because it's the hard side.
    I would still like to see... Something that tests character versatility and player adaptability rather than character focus strength and quest knowledge.
    I play the quests for the content of the quests not just as an XP/min merry-go-round.
    Actual play experience is worth infinitely more than theorycrafting...

  5. #5
    Community Member UurlockYgmeov's Avatar
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    I run EE for favor and first time bonus - then also for the EE gear.

    After that - why; until IR/HR again. All good.

    Somebody always needs barney favor. Somebody always needs EE gear. Someone always just IR/HR'd.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nayus View Post
    CoVs have always been almost the entire reason ever since they were implemented. But now you gain Seeds running Epic Casual...

    XP/time ratio... is bad. You get a bonus the first time through (nice for Iconics!) but so does Epic Normal and even Epic Casual. EEs are now once per life. It doesn't matter how fast you can complete an EE, unless you're 1-shotting everything then EH can always be done faster.

    The Tiered Loot topic definitely has some mixed opinions at Turbine, but it's likely getting discontinued or left aside at this pace, either way it won't affect our lives much... too many casuals complaining they can't powergame.

    Drop Rates seem to be the only thing we have left, but honestly some items seem to hard to drop that I doubt we're making any decent progress by trying EE instead of EH.
    Also, for many quests out there, you can do a EH in half the time and just run it twice, 0% chance of failure and you're getting a lot more XP.

    Then we have Drop Rates for Raids, since those can't be easily repeated but... there's a large different from EN to EH and to EH to EE.
    Epic Elite raids should drop something REALLY awesome and at a GOOD rate (instead of running it 100 times to finally drop an item), how about some (multiple) guaranteed Dragonshard Essences?

    For the EE tiered loot .... oh wait.......

    Maybe the 0.000003% difference in item drop rates?

  7. #7
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    While I cannot answer for other people I can speak for why I run Epic Elite

    Primary reason is because I can. I'm also not playing this game for speed or concern for XP/Min or CoVs/Min. I enjoy running with PuGs and Guild runs on elite and especially when people are running elite for the first time. While I'm not a fan of HP bags for difficulty advancement, I do find it to be fun to take not-so-perfect team that is willing to work together and finish a quest even when it seems like it is going to be an uphill fight the whole way.

    I run also for Favor - while Heroic Elite provides the same favor amount as Epic Elite for those quests, I still like getting as much favor as I can out of a quest.

    For quests that are part of Sagas I like running on EE for the True Elite completions - I've not yet gotten all the skill tomes I'm after, and I've even done this to pull the Guild Renown. While I understand I could run quests on EH and upgrade to Elite or even run just enough on Elite and upgrade to True, I still enjoy earning that level without having to purchase it.

    While gear is nice, even with Normal/Hard/Elite it was not an incentive to run the quest for a chance at said gear. Yes, I do have some EE Gear and even some EH gear, I've even upgraded EH to EE when I pulled them.

    ==================
    The thing to keep in mind is EE was not the fastest XP/Min or CoV/Min method - with maybe exception during Double CoV or XP bonus days

  8. #8
    Community Member Ploks's Avatar
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    Sagas.
    Orien~
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  9. #9
    Community Member AbyssalMage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by axel15810 View Post
    I think the drop rates should be given a huge boost in EE across the board to equal out the huge difficulty bump from EH to EE. Instead of drop rates being 3%/4%/5% it should be more like 3%/4%/12%.
    NO! NO! NO!

    Ok, actually 8% for Elite I would be fine with. Honestly I hate farming gear and running an adventure full group for a week should show a named item I would think. Doesn't always happen thanks to RNG but that is life I guess

    I'd also like to see some nice (not best in slot or required) items/consumables drop on EE and be EE exclusive. Perhaps deathward potions, heal over time potions and the CoV turn ins. Also would love to see cosmetic armor/hats/eyes/pets drop and be EE exclusive.
    I would be fine with consumables that are above and beyond what you can get normally. Cosmetic stuff is to much of a $$$ for Turbine to give that cash cow up though.

    p.s. I am glad they are doing away with tiered loot and have done away with Shard/Scroll/Seal/Item. Boosting loot and/or adding "Elite" consumables I don't see as game breaking.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nayus View Post
    CoVs have always been almost the entire reason ever since they were implemented. But now you gain Seeds running Epic Casual...

    XP/time ratio... is bad. You get a bonus the first time through (nice for Iconics!) but so does Epic Normal and even Epic Casual. EEs are now once per life. It doesn't matter how fast you can complete an EE, unless you're 1-shotting everything then EH can always be done faster.

    The Tiered Loot topic definitely has some mixed opinions at Turbine, but it's likely getting discontinued or left aside at this pace, either way it won't affect our lives much... too many casuals complaining they can't powergame.

    Drop Rates seem to be the only thing we have left, but honestly some items seem to hard to drop that I doubt we're making any decent progress by trying EE instead of EH.
    Also, for many quests out there, you can do a EH in half the time and just run it twice, 0% chance of failure and you're getting a lot more XP.

    Then we have Drop Rates for Raids, since those can't be easily repeated but... there's a large different from EN to EH and to EH to EE.
    Epic Elite raids should drop something REALLY awesome and at a GOOD rate (instead of running it 100 times to finally drop an item), how about some (multiple) guaranteed Dragonshard Essences?

    Incentive for what? all ya need to do is splash a couple levels of monk and a couple levels of paly into any build and EE is just as easy as Casual.
    °º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸,ø¤°º¤ø,¸ ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸A R C H A N G E L S °º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸,ø¤°º¤ø,¸ ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸
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  11. #11
    Community Member Infiltraitor's Avatar
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    The incentive to run EE is for the satisfaction of running a difficulty that is more challenging.

    If loot or reward was given so as to match the difficulty of EE, it would be super power creep.

    Still the weakest member and dumbest of Omnipresence.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nayus View Post
    CoVs have always been almost the entire reason ever since they were implemented. But now you gain Seeds running Epic Casual...

    XP/time ratio... is bad. You get a bonus the first time through (nice for Iconics!) but so does Epic Normal and even Epic Casual. EEs are now once per life. It doesn't matter how fast you can complete an EE, unless you're 1-shotting everything then EH can always be done faster.

    The Tiered Loot topic definitely has some mixed opinions at Turbine, but it's likely getting discontinued or left aside at this pace, either way it won't affect our lives much... too many casuals complaining they can't powergame.

    Drop Rates seem to be the only thing we have left, but honestly some items seem to hard to drop that I doubt we're making any decent progress by trying EE instead of EH.
    Also, for many quests out there, you can do a EH in half the time and just run it twice, 0% chance of failure and you're getting a lot more XP.

    Then we have Drop Rates for Raids, since those can't be easily repeated but... there's a large different from EN to EH and to EH to EE.
    Epic Elite raids should drop something REALLY awesome and at a GOOD rate (instead of running it 100 times to finally drop an item), how about some (multiple) guaranteed Dragonshard Essences?
    Player choice.

    Frankly I doubt anyone at Turbine cares what difficulty one is running at to get whatever they get from the game. It's why they offer several difficulties to choose from. The expectation is likely more that players will run the difficulty they most like than that they will aspire to running EE due to artificial incentives being placed there.

    Though they do seem to swing back and forth from worrying about losing players due to boredom from not being "pushed" to play harder content to worrying about losing players to frustration from being "pushed" there.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by moo_cow View Post

    Maybe the 0.000003% difference in item drop rates?
    It would be fantastic if Turbine provided the EE drop rates because as someone that runs on multiple difficulties I do notice a big difference in drop rates.

    On one character I received Jibber's blade after 2 EE runs. On another character I received it after 4 EE runs. I ran though it on one character EH I saw no blades and only one named item in all 8 runs. It seems like something always drops for someone on EE, but not as often below that.

    I am very much against tiered loot in raids, but I would be ok if they brought it back to quests. I really don't feel like I NEED more incentive though. People that claim they need more incentive have a problem that Turbine can't solve because it is self-created. Sagas alone provide some significant bonus xp for etr. Running all EE means you can etr immediately when reaching 28 instead of having to run additional quests.

    I think it would be healthy for the game if level 24+ quests on EE had a unique loot tier that included things like +6 tomes and other useful things that aren't tied to defense/dps aka power creep (jibbers' blade is a good example of this type of reward that is highly useful but doesn't add to power creep).

    However, people complain everything is too easy so these would have to be extremely rare items to give the grinder types the unending grind they are looking for. They also should not add to player power because again these same people complain the game is too easy.

    Most of these people arguing for "incentive" really just want to make more AS from selling gear. It certainly is also good for Turbine if there is a good market for rare items. I personally would prefer to see all the rarest EE-only items btc, but that isn't as profitable for Turbine so some or most would need to be btcoe. I hope at least some rare items are btc immediately if they implement something.

    I thought the model pre-U14 was good where much of the powerful gear was reasonable to get and small percentage was an endless grind.

  14. #14

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    It's fun. That's enough for me.

  15. #15
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by impaqt View Post
    incentive for what? All ya need to do is splash a couple levels of monk and a couple levels of paly into any build and ee is just as easy as casual.
    bwahahahahaha
    #MakeDDOGreatAgain

    You are the one choosing not to play alts.

    Casual player now investing way less than I used to into the game, playing 1-3 months at a time and still want nothing to do with Reaper. #improvepuggrouping#alldifficultiesmatter

  16. #16
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    It's really hard to give a perfect answer to this, except that you run EE for EE gear. Which is slightly better than EH ones, but once you gather 4 or 5 of those, it's decent. You do get more CoV for running EE, but I don't think people cares about it too much. I personally think there should be a cap between EE and EH players. Elites deserve much greater reward than it's now. Something that actually courage people to try and focus on building EE chars.

  17. #17
    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
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    You have to run all the quests on epic elite to unlock epic super-elite.

  18. #18
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    right. incentive to run EE is different for everyone.

    fun/challenge
    loot
    xp/BB
    Comms
    favor

    its rather apparent what the driving force is in this game. pretty easy to spot just by looking at the lfm and asking around. it doesn't matter how it should be, you just have to come to an understanding of what is going on around you. unless you run the same quests daily cheesing your way through it or actually happen to be THAT good, EH is the better way to go for xp. you can still pick up Comms as you level, but it takes no time whatsoever to run EN quests for seeds. loot you can trade for or buy out of your pocket, but it is a top 2 reason to run EE. sorry, but I don't see EE lfms that say "for the fun of it. I don't need xp or loot or anything" and that's not what you hear from random people to players in your guild. yes, many do say they are having fun, but you can still have fun running EH while you try to achieve your goals.

    there definitely was more players running EE before getting seeds in your end reward at cap. some of the players I know that only ever ran EE for Comms, now run EN for xp and run EE specific quests for loot they still want. the incentive has diminished and needs another boost, but im fine with it right now until the devs improve the changes that are being talked about in the other threads.
    #MakeDDOGreatAgain

    You are the one choosing not to play alts.

    Casual player now investing way less than I used to into the game, playing 1-3 months at a time and still want nothing to do with Reaper. #improvepuggrouping#alldifficultiesmatter

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbyssalMage View Post
    NO! NO! NO!

    Ok, actually 8% for Elite I would be fine with. Honestly I hate farming gear and running an adventure full group for a week should show a named item I would think. Doesn't always happen thanks to RNG but that is life I guess
    I like that there's still loot in a lot of the epic quests that I still want, it makes running them on elite each life not feel like the chore that heroic TRs now feel. I open the xp panel on an heroic quest, see that I'll get 10k xp once I complete but then have to spend the next 10 mins or whatever doing a quest I've done a ton of times, no chance of death unless it lags horribly and zero excitement when I get to the end chest at all.

    EEs have a chance of death still(for me at least), I'm still excited to open most chests and even though I've done these quests a lot they can still be challenging. Those are the reasons I still run EEs, it doesn't bother me that it may be a little slower than sleepwalking through epic hard, sleepwalking through quests is a large part of the reason I hate heroic TRs now.

  20. #20
    Community Member Alternative's Avatar
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    figures, if OP thinks xp/min in EE is bad then the problem is the OP, spend more time learning the game and less time giving advices on the forums, and you won't have such problems

    also sagas

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