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  1. #1
    Community Member Todkaninchen's Avatar
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    Default Theorycrafting: Paladin and FVS lives gear and build...

    I'm thinking about doing a completionist character and doing Paladin and FVS lives back to back. I'm really interested in trying to do so with (mostly) the same set of gear for both. Some key, personal requirements are:

    1) Must be a halfling.
    2) The FVS life will be a warpriest. (which means...)
    3) Faith will be Sovereign Host for Paladin and FVS to use longswords.
    4) I would prefer to be sword and board.
    5) The maximum splash for either build will be 2 levels. (I don't have access to druid, I have all other classes.)
    6) I would like to be able to solo most heroic quests (with or without a hire) and contribute to parties.
    7) Don't really need an uber-tank or exceptional epic level build other than level 20-22-ish.

    Given that, I'm looking for ideas for both builds and gearing.

    I'll farm a Retribution (http://ddowiki.com/page/Retribution) craft a Triple Positive Green Steel Longsword, and have a Divine Vengeance (http://ddowiki.com/page/Divine_Vengeance), a Vengeful Protector shield (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Vengeful_Protector), enough relics and scales for sets of Gianthold Armors, a Light and Darkness (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Light_and_Darkness), and some other stuff on hand.

    Suggestions as to a good set of overlapping gear would be great.

    Note: The only divine I've ever played is a Warpriest Cleric... who happens to be Warforged. I have some mid-level Cannith crafting skills, and will plan on farming as much of the gear as I can before TRing. The only major packs I don't have are the Necro chain, VoN, Deleras, and the challenges...

    The character in question will have 2 rogue past lives (for what it's worth) and a complete set of +3 attribute tomes.

    Any suggestions, constructive advice, etc.?

    (Once I get feedback here, I'll probably crosspost to the FVS forum if no on here suggests a good build for FVS as well.)

  2. #2
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Default

    Any particular reason you want S&B? TWF or even SWF would be significantly better DPS - all the more important if you insist on using gimpy longswords. The survivability benefits from S&B don't really kick in until epics w/Legendary Shield Mastery, but I'm inferring you intend to HTR as soon as you hit lvl 20.

  3. #3
    Community Member Todkaninchen's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Any particular reason you want S&B? TWF or even SWF would be significantly better DPS - all the more important if you insist on using gimpy longswords. The survivability benefits from S&B don't really kick in until epics w/Legendary Shield Mastery, but I'm inferring you intend to HTR as soon as you hit lvl 20.
    Good point.

    I thought most of the defensive abilities in Paladin was sort of shield-centric. Also, even with the tomes and the 3rd life build points--wasn't sure there would be enough points in the kitty for STR, CON, and enough DEX for 2WF.

    The reason for the longsword is primarily due to feat limitations, a few decent, named or craftable longswords, and the eventual FVS (maybe cleric life) where the faith weapon gets to add +5 to the enhancement bonus. (So, a Green steel long sword turns into a +10 weapon at level 12 or so on a warpriest.) The reason for it being a paladin requirement is to avoid having to farm 2 completely different sets of weapons and armors for the 2 (or 3) classes.

    However, a 2WF build on a halfling would probably work okay for at least the first couple of 2HF feats. SWF might be interesting, but is there enough defensive ability to make it survivable?

    And the intent would be to spend enough time in the epic levels to get at least 3rd tier in all the divine destinies and farm epic tokens. So, some epic stuff, but mostly heroic and not endgame.

  4. #4
    Community Member Todkaninchen's Avatar
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    Default Okay... How messed up is this build?

    So, this is my idea so far.

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Eyesblaze 
    Level 28 Lawful Good Halfling Male
    (20 Paladin \ 8 Epic) 
    Hit Points: 404
    Spell Points: 408 
    BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
    Fortitude: 23
    Reflex: 17
    Will: 16
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (36 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 28)
    Strength             15                    24
    Dexterity            13                    16
    Constitution         14                    17
    Intelligence          8                    11
    Wisdom               12                    15
    Charisma             16                    22
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    +3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 28)
    Balance               1                    11
    Bluff                 3                    14
    Concentration         2                    24
    Diplomacy             3                    14
    Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
    Haggle                3                    14
    Heal                  5                    33
    Hide                  1                    15
    Intimidate            3                    14
    Jump                  2                    17
    Listen                1                    12
    Move Silently         1                    13
    Open Lock             n/a                  n/a
    Perform               n/a                  n/a
    Repair               -1                     8
    Search               -1                     8
    Spellcraft           -1                     8
    Spot                  1                    10
    Swim                  2                    15
    Tumble                n/a                  n/a
    Use Magic Device      n/a                  n/a
    
    Level 1 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Sovereign Host
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    Feat: (Automatic) Attack
    Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Good
    Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
    Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Agility
    Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Bravery
    Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Keen Ears
    Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Luck
    Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Size Bonus
    Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Thrown Weapon Focus
    Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
    Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
    Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
    Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Smite Evil
    Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
    Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
    Feat: (Automatic) Trip
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Holy Bastion (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Armor Mastery (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 2 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Automatic) Divine Grace
    Feat: (Automatic) Lay on Hands
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Fiendslayer I (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Smite (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Smite (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 2)
    
    
    Level 3 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Courage
    Feat: (Automatic) Divine Health
    Feat: (Automatic) Fear Immunity
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Divine Righteousness (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 3)
    
    
    Level 4 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Feat: (Automatic) Turn Undead
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Light (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Light (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 5 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Automatic) Improved Heroic Durability
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 3)
    
    
    Level 6 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery
    Feat: (Automatic) Remove Disease
    Feat: (Automatic) Unyielding Sovereignty
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Courage of Heaven (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Fiendslayer II (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Exalted Smite (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 7 (Paladin)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Exalted Smite (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Shield Mastery (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 8 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Smite (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Smite (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Exalted Smite (Rank 3)
    
    
    Level 9 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Light (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Strong Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Strong Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Strong Defense (Rank 3)
    
    
    Level 10 (Paladin)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Censure Demons (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Armor Mastery (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Armor Mastery (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Shield Mastery (Rank 2)
    
    
    Level 11 (Paladin)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Shield Mastery (Rank 3)
    
    
    Level 12 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Improved Courage of Heaven (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Redemption (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Swift Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Hardy Defense (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 13 (Paladin)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Improved Restoration (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 14 (Paladin)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Improved Restoration (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Improved Restoration (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Holy Retribution (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Holy Retribution (Rank 2)
    
    
    Level 15 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Shield Deflection
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Censure Outsiders (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Holy Retribution (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Hardy Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Hardy Defense (Rank 3)
    
    
    Level 16 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Sealed Life (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Reinforced Armor (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 17 (Paladin)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Reinforced Armor (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Reinforced Armor (Rank 3)
    
    
    Level 18 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Tower Shield Proficiency
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Fiendslayer III (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Vigor of Life (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Glorious Stand (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 19 (Paladin)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Remove Disease (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Remove Disease (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Remove Disease (Rank 3)
    
    
    Level 20 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Champion of Good (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Item Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Instinctive Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Instinctive Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Instinctive Defense (Rank 3)
    
    
    Level 21 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
    Feat: (Automatic) Epic: Epic Skills
    
    
    Level 22 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 23 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 24 (Epic)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical
    
    
    Level 25 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 26 (Epic)
    Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Holy Strike
    
    
    Level 27 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Epic: Blinding Speed
    
    
    Level 28 (Epic)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Guardian Angel
    How badly have I messed this up?

    Are there any obvious screw ups/omissions/sins?

    It's not a maxed shield build, takes a good selection of both trees. Should be sword and board with cleave/great cleave/power attack.

    Note: There's no intimidation (-4 to halfling intim kind of makes that questionable) or actually threat generation (which I shouldn't need if I'm either soloing or DPSing enough).

    So...

  5. #5
    Community Member Todkaninchen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
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    Default For what it's worth...

    The post-Paladin life should be:

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Eyeshine 
    Level 28 Lawful Good Halfling Male
    (20 Favored Soul \ 8 Epic) 
    Hit Points: 379
    Spell Points: 2460 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 18
    Reflex: 15
    Will: 17
    
                      Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
    (36 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 28)           (Level 28)
    Strength             13                 23                   23
    Dexterity            10                 13                   13
    Constitution         14                 17                   19
    Intelligence         12                 15                   15
    Wisdom               13                 16                   16
    Charisma             17                 20                   20
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    +3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11
    
                      Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 28)          (Level 28)
    Balance               0                  1                   12
    Bluff                 3                  5                   13
    Concentration         6                 27                   38
    Diplomacy             3                  5                   13
    Disable Device        n/a               n/a                  n/a
    Haggle                3                  5                   13
    Heal                  5                 26                   39
    Hide                  0                  1                   13
    Intimidate            3                  5                   16
    Jump                  1                 19                   32
    Listen                1                  3                   13
    Move Silently         0                  1                   11
    Open Lock             n/a               n/a                   n/a
    Perform               n/a               n/a                  n/a
    Repair                1                  2                   10
    Search                1                  2                   10
    Spellcraft            5                 25                   33
    Spot                  1                  3                   11
    Swim                  1                  6                   14
    Tumble                n/a               n/a                  n/a
    Use Magic Device      n/a               n/a                  n/a
    
    Level 1 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Concentration (+4)
    Skill: Heal (+4)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+4)
    Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Sovereign Host
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    Feat: (Automatic) Attack
    Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Agility
    Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Bravery
    Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Keen Ears
    Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Luck
    Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Size Bonus
    Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Thrown Weapon Focus
    Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
    Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Magical Training
    Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
    Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
    Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
    Spell (1): Divine Favor
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Smite Foe (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Divine Might (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Righteous Weapons (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 2 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
    Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
    Feat: (Automatic) Trip
    Spell (1): Nimbus of Light
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Divine Might (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Divine Might (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Righteous Weapons (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 3 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    Feat: (Automatic) Child of the Sovereign Host
    Spell (1): Protection from Evil
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Resilience of Battle (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Wall of Steel (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Righteous Weapons (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 4 (Favored Soul)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Toughness (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Toughness (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Wall of Steel (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Wall of Steel (Rank 3)
    
    
    Level 5 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Acid
    Feat: (Automatic) Improved Heroic Durability
    Spell (2): Lesser Restoration
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Toughness (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Smite Weakness (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Burden of Sin (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 6 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
    Feat: (Automatic) Unyielding Sovereignty
    Spell (3): Cure Serious Wounds
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Sanctuary (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Burden of Sin (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Ameliorating Strike (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 7 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Spell (2): Aid
    Spell (3): Magic Circle Against Evil
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Burden of Sin (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Light Guard (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Righteous Weapons (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 8 (Favored Soul)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Spell (4): Panacea
    Enhancement: Halfling - Halfling Luck (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Acrobatic (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Light Guard (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Light Guard (Rank 3)
    
    
    Level 9 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Healing
    Spell (2): Deific Vengeance
    Spell (3): Searing Light
    Spell (4): Death Ward
    Enhancement: Halfling - Jorasco Dragonmark Focus (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Jorasco Dragonmark Focus (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Jorasco Dragonmark Focus (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Nimble Reaction (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 10 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Electricity
    Spell (5): Raise Dead
    Enhancement: Halfling - Lesser Dragonmark of Healing (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Break Out The Leeches (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 11 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Spell (3): Glyph of Warding
    Spell (4): Freedom of Movement
    Spell (5): True Seeing
    Enhancement: Halfling - Acrobatic (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Nimble Reaction (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Greater Dragonmark of Healing (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 12 (Favored Soul)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    Feat: (Automatic) Beloved of the Sovereign Host
    Spell (6): Heal
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - War Domain: Blur (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Divine Vessel (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Wrathful Weapons (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 13 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Spell (4): Restoration
    Spell (5): Divine Punishment
    Spell (6): Blade Barrier
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Divine Power (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Divine Vessel (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Divine Vessel (Rank 3)
    
    
    Level 14 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Spell (7): Spell Resistance, Mass
    Enhancement: Halfling - Acrobatic (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Magic Backlash (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Magic Backlash (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Magic Backlash (Rank 3)
    
    
    Level 15 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Fire
    Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
    Spell (5): Cure Light Wounds, Mass
    Spell (6): Symbol of Persuasion
    Spell (7): Protection from Elements, Mass
    Enhancement: Halfling - Nimble Reaction (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Font of Power (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Divine Intervention (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 16 (Favored Soul)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Spell (8): Death Ward, Mass
    Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Smiting (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Inquisition (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Inquisition (Rank 2)
    
    
    Level 17 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Feat: (Automatic) Leap Of Faith
    Spell (7): Greater Restoration
    Spell (8): Fire Storm
    Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Angelic Resistance (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Inquisition (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Articles of Faith (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 18 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery
    Spell (9): Heal, Mass
    Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Angelic Resistance (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Angelic Resistance (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - War Domain: Haste (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 19 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Spell (8): Summon Monster VIII
    Spell (9): True Resurrection
    Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Shield of Condemnation (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Aura of Menace (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 3)
    
    
    Level 20 (Favored Soul)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Feat: (Deity) Favored Soul Damage Reduction: Silver
    Spell (9): Summon Monster IX
    Enhancement: Halfling - Bold (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Smiting (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Implacable Foe (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 21 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery
    Feat: (Automatic) Epic: Epic Skills
    
    
    Level 22 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 23 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 24 (Epic)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Selected) Augment Summoning
    
    
    Level 25 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 26 (Epic)
    Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Holy Strike
    
    
    Level 27 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Damage Reduction
    
    
    Level 28 (Epic)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Guardian Angel
    Additionally, same sword and board with longswords, primarily melee with ameliorating strike as the primary HP maintenance tool with probably middling-fair heals.

  6. #6
    Community Member the_one_dwarfforged's Avatar
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    1) unless you are doing it strictly for the flavor, i would totally ditch longswords and snb. the defensive benefit is fine, but unnecessary for heroics, especially when it means trading dps as well as using a longsword, which is a terrible weapon. +5 hit/dmg is not better than a falchion or khopesh or bastard sword even in heroics (by lvl 12 as you say, at least).

    2) unless you are doing it strictly for the flavor, i wouldnt do pure on a tr build. the more powerful abilities (in theory...) you gain are gained last, and used the least amount of time, so why bother? splashing something like fighter or paladin would add greatly to your fvs by increasing number of feats or increasing saves, as well as granting full martial proficiency so you can use whatever weapon is best for you at any level without worry. also evasion is easy to splash for and will make heroics ridiculously easy, but isnt really that necessary after a couple trs when you know the quests inside and out. however if soloing most of the time its probably the number one thing id want in a tr build.

    so, outside of reading long sword, snd, and seeing pure classes, looks like you want to tr with flavor builds. can/will/has been done, but its just making more work for yourself if you want that past life sooner than later.
    Quote Originally Posted by Severlin View Post
    Fighter is fine, though I agree it is behind Paladin. Their greatest weakness is actually saving throws.
    statements like this are why i have no confidence in the dev team.

  7. #7
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todkaninchen View Post
    5) The maximum splash for either build will be 2 levels. (I don't have access to druid, I have all other classes.)
    This seems like an odd restriction. Do you really want the lvl 18 core enhs - or lvl 9 spells in the case of FvS - or is it just a self-imposed constraint?

    I don't know why you put so many pts into WIS on either build: you're not a DC caster and the bonus to Will saves doesn't merit it, IMHO.

  8. #8
    Community Member Todkaninchen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_one_dwarfforged View Post
    1) unless you are doing it strictly for the flavor, i would totally ditch longswords and snb. the defensive benefit is fine, but unnecessary for heroics, especially when it means trading dps as well as using a longsword, which is a terrible weapon. +5 hit/dmg is not better than a falchion or khopesh or bastard sword even in heroics (by lvl 12 as you say, at least).
    I was expecting to run with something like http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Threnalian_War_Blade with the odd damage die or http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Flametongue or http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Xoriat_Forged_Blade at low levels and things like greensteel blades and alchemical blades at higher levels. The dice on the named ones--which I have unbound versions of right now--make them almost like bastard swords minus the glancing blows. That and both builds are built to spam cleaves and cleave-like attacks...

    (I wouldn't mind a Dragon Sword of Acid, but I don't have that pack yet.)

    Again, it's mostly because of the faith-based benefits. I believe the boosts are more than the +5 attack/damage from raising the enhancement bonus on FVS with the various autogrants, but I can see where it might be less optimal for a Paladin though.

    Quote Originally Posted by the_one_dwarfforged View Post
    2) unless you are doing it strictly for the flavor, i wouldnt do pure on a tr build. the more powerful abilities (in theory...) you gain are gained last, and used the least amount of time, so why bother? splashing something like fighter or paladin would add greatly to your fvs by increasing number of feats or increasing saves, as well as granting full martial proficiency so you can use whatever weapon is best for you at any level without worry. also evasion is easy to splash for and will make heroics ridiculously easy, but isnt really that necessary after a couple trs when you know the quests inside and out. however if soloing most of the time its probably the number one thing id want in a tr build.

    so, outside of reading long sword, snd, and seeing pure classes, looks like you want to tr with flavor builds. can/will/has been done, but its just making more work for yourself if you want that past life sooner than later.
    Okay, not enough attribute points or skills for rogue skills, are you suggesting a monk splash?

    It would also limit the armor to light, imply I need a higher DEX, and I do have a http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Breastplate_of_Destruction and a collection of other light armor (from my current and past rogue lives), but it also cuts PRR benefits as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    This seems like an odd restriction. Do you really want the lvl 18 core enhs - or lvl 9 spells in the case of FvS - or is it just a self-imposed constraint?

    I don't know why you put so many pts into WIS on either build: you're not a DC caster and the bonus to Will saves doesn't merit it, IMHO.
    I want--on the FVS--mass heal, at least. I would like to be able to handle some raiding.

    Good points on the WIS though. Although, if I did do a monk splash, it might be worth it--for AC purposes--or does that work in light armor?

    One other reason for the restriction--on the paladin--was how many AP I was spending in each of the trees. I'm at 43AP and 37AP in the trees without any spent in my racial at all. Getting any benefit--other than feats--from another class would probably require a complete revision of my enhancement selections.

    Updated FVS (while I consider the evasion splash on paladin). Moved WIS points to STR.

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Eyeshine 
    Level 27 Lawful Good Halfling Male
    (20 Favored Soul \ 7 Epic) 
    Hit Points: 366
    Spell Points: 2455 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 18
    Reflex: 16
    Will: 15
    
                      Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
    (36 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 27)           (Level 27)
    Strength             14                 23                   23
    Dexterity            11                 14                   14
    Constitution         14                 17                   19
    Intelligence         12                 15                   15
    Wisdom               10                 13                   13
    Charisma             17                 20                   20
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    +3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11
    
                      Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 27)          (Level 27)
    Balance               0                  2                   12
    Bluff                 3                  5                   12
    Concentration         6                 27                   37
    Diplomacy             3                  5                   12
    Disable Device        n/a               n/a                   n/a
    Haggle                3                  5                   12
    Heal                  4                 24                   36
    Hide                  0                  2                   13
    Intimidate            3                  5                   15
    Jump                  2                 19                   31
    Listen                0                  1                   10
    Move Silently         0                  2                   11
    Open Lock             n/a               n/a                   n/a
    Perform               n/a               n/a                  n/a
    Repair                1                  2                    9
    Search                1                  2                    9
    Spellcraft            5                 25                   32
    Spot                  0                  1                    8
    Swim                  2                  6                   13
    Tumble                n/a               n/a                  n/a
    Use Magic Device      n/a               n/a                  n/a
    
    Level 1 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Concentration (+4)
    Skill: Heal (+4)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+4)
    Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Sovereign Host
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    Feat: (Automatic) Attack
    Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Agility
    Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Bravery
    Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Keen Ears
    Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Luck
    Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Size Bonus
    Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Thrown Weapon Focus
    Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
    Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Magical Training
    Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
    Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
    Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
    Spell (1): Divine Favor
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Smite Foe (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Divine Might (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Righteous Weapons (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 2 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
    Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
    Feat: (Automatic) Trip
    Spell (1): Nimbus of Light
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Divine Might (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Divine Might (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Righteous Weapons (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 3 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    Feat: (Automatic) Child of the Sovereign Host
    Spell (1): Protection from Evil
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Resilience of Battle (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Wall of Steel (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Righteous Weapons (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 4 (Favored Soul)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Toughness (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Toughness (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Wall of Steel (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Wall of Steel (Rank 3)
    
    
    Level 5 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Acid
    Feat: (Automatic) Improved Heroic Durability
    Spell (2): Lesser Restoration
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Toughness (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Smite Weakness (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Burden of Sin (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 6 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
    Feat: (Automatic) Unyielding Sovereignty
    Spell (3): Cure Serious Wounds
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Sanctuary (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Burden of Sin (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Ameliorating Strike (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 7 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Spell (2): Aid
    Spell (3): Magic Circle Against Evil
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Burden of Sin (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Light Guard (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Righteous Weapons (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 8 (Favored Soul)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Spell (4): Panacea
    Enhancement: Halfling - Halfling Luck (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Acrobatic (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Light Guard (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Light Guard (Rank 3)
    
    
    Level 9 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Healing
    Spell (2): Deific Vengeance
    Spell (3): Searing Light
    Spell (4): Death Ward
    Enhancement: Halfling - Jorasco Dragonmark Focus (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Jorasco Dragonmark Focus (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Jorasco Dragonmark Focus (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Nimble Reaction (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 10 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Electricity
    Spell (5): Raise Dead
    Enhancement: Halfling - Lesser Dragonmark of Healing (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Break Out The Leeches (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 11 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Spell (3): Glyph of Warding
    Spell (4): Freedom of Movement
    Spell (5): True Seeing
    Enhancement: Halfling - Acrobatic (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Nimble Reaction (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Greater Dragonmark of Healing (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 12 (Favored Soul)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    Feat: (Automatic) Beloved of the Sovereign Host
    Spell (6): Heal
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - War Domain: Blur (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Divine Vessel (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Wrathful Weapons (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 13 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Spell (4): Restoration
    Spell (5): Divine Punishment
    Spell (6): Blade Barrier
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Divine Power (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Divine Vessel (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Divine Vessel (Rank 3)
    
    
    Level 14 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Spell (7): Spell Resistance, Mass
    Enhancement: Halfling - Acrobatic (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Magic Backlash (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Magic Backlash (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Magic Backlash (Rank 3)
    
    
    Level 15 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Fire
    Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
    Spell (5): Cure Light Wounds, Mass
    Spell (6): Symbol of Persuasion
    Spell (7): Protection from Elements, Mass
    Enhancement: Halfling - Nimble Reaction (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Font of Power (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Divine Intervention (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 16 (Favored Soul)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Spell (8): Death Ward, Mass
    Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Smiting (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Inquisition (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Inquisition (Rank 2)
    
    
    Level 17 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Feat: (Automatic) Leap Of Faith
    Spell (7): Greater Restoration
    Spell (8): Fire Storm
    Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Angelic Resistance (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Inquisition (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Articles of Faith (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 18 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery
    Spell (9): Heal, Mass
    Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Angelic Resistance (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Angelic Resistance (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - War Domain: Haste (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 19 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Spell (8): Summon Monster VIII
    Spell (9): True Resurrection
    Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Shield of Condemnation (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Aura of Menace (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 3)
    
    
    Level 20 (Favored Soul)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Feat: (Deity) Favored Soul Damage Reduction: Silver
    Spell (9): Summon Monster IX
    Enhancement: Halfling - Bold (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Smiting (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Implacable Foe (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 21 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery
    Feat: (Automatic) Epic: Epic Skills
    
    
    Level 22 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 23 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 24 (Epic)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Selected) Augment Summoning
    
    
    Level 25 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 26 (Epic)
    Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Holy Strike
    
    
    Level 27 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical

  9. #9
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    The main drawback to longswords is their subpar crit spec (19-20 x2); the static bonuses from Righteous Weapons help but not enough to close the DPS gap. [A HE or elf using scimitars would be better.] The only named longswords I can find with better-than-avg specs are Avenger Blade, Dragon Sword, Watcher's Blade, Oathblade, and drow longsword.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    The main drawback to longswords is their subpar crit spec (19-20 x2); the static bonuses from Righteous Weapons help but not enough to close the DPS gap. [A HE or elf using scimitars would be better.] The only named longswords I can find with better-than-avg specs are Avenger Blade, Dragon Sword, Watcher's Blade, Oathblade, and drow longsword.
    Oathblade is equal parts cool and flavorful.

  11. #11
    Community Member Psiandron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    The main drawback to longswords is their subpar crit spec (19-20 x2); the static bonuses from Righteous Weapons help but not enough to close the DPS gap. [A HE or elf using scimitars would be better.] The only named longswords I can find with better-than-avg specs are Avenger Blade, Dragon Sword, Watcher's Blade, Oathblade, and drow longsword.
    Threnalian War Blade and Sirocco

    And, Lit II and Min II, ofc. Assuming that you have the Shroud ingredients to make them.
    Quote Originally Posted by MalkavianX View Post
    and then dropped it like a burning kitten

  12. #12
    Community Member Todkaninchen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    The main drawback to longswords is their subpar crit spec (19-20 x2); the static bonuses from Righteous Weapons help but not enough to close the DPS gap. [A HE or elf using scimitars would be better.] The only named longswords I can find with better-than-avg specs are Avenger Blade, Dragon Sword, Watcher's Blade, Oathblade, and drow longsword.
    Quote Originally Posted by Psiandron View Post
    Threnalian War Blade and Sirocco

    And, Lit II and Min II, ofc. Assuming that you have the Shroud ingredients to make them.
    I will have--prior to TRing--the mats for a green steel longsword, maybe two.

    I was thinking about a triple positive for the massive alignment damage, but Lit II was another possible candidate.

    For the rest:

    I have or can/will easily farm Watcher's Blade (have), A Threnalian War Blade (will farm or buy), a Nightforge Avenger Blade (have the ore, will get), Divine Vengeance (have), Flametongue (have, unbound), Sirocco (both an unbound one and an older, pre-augment one), an unused Raider's Box (for Tinah, Sword of the Sea), and an unbound Xoriat Forged Blade.

    I have an unbound Light and Darkness shield, a Vengeful Protector shield, a Wall of Wood (unbound, either heroic hard or heroic elite, can't remember which), and a couple of nice craftable, BTA mithral large shields.

    If I need light armor, I have a pretty good store of many of the lighter ones. For heavier armor, I have enough relics for any type of giantcrafted/elfcrafted/dragoncrafted armor or blue/black/white dragon armor, a Brutish Cuirass, Gorgon Armor, unbound Mithral Full Plate of Speed, Unbound Orcish Privateers Plate, an unbound (Strength or Con) Terrorweb Chitin Breastplate, and a set of Templar's Bastion armor.

    That's where I'm starting from on gear, so, I'm cool with having to have odd, named blades or armor. Looking for what you guys would think is key other gear as well.

  13. #13
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    I still don't think S&B is a good idea, but if it's what you really want, who am I to say no?
    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 21 Lawful Good Halfling Female
    (18 Paladin \ 2 Monk \ 1 Epic) 
    Hit Points: 330
    Spell Points: 301 
    BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
    Fortitude: 25
    Reflex: 17
    Will: 16
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (36 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 21)
    Strength             15                    23
    Dexterity            10                    13
    Constitution         16                    19
    Intelligence         11                    14
    Wisdom                8                    11
    Charisma             16                    19
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Strength used at level 2
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 2
    +1 Tome of Constitution used at level 2
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 2
    +1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 2
    +1 Tome of Charisma used at level 2
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 6
    +3 Tome of Strength used at level 10
    +3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 10
    +3 Tome of Constitution used at level 10
    +3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 10
    +3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 10
    +3 Tome of Charisma used at level 10
    
    Level 1 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 2 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Sovereign Host
    
    
    Level 3 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery
    
    
    Level 4 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 5 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 6 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
    
    
    Level 7 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 8 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 9 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 10 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 11 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 12 (Monk)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery
    
    
    Level 13 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 14 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 15 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Healing
    
    
    Level 16 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 17 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 18 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
    
    
    Level 19 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 20 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Enhancement: Halfling - Halfling Luck (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Jorasco Dragonmark Focus (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Jorasco Dragonmark Focus (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Jorasco Dragonmark Focus (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Cunning (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Lesser Dragonmark of Healing (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Break Out The Leeches (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Guile (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Greater Dragonmark of Healing (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Guile (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Holy Bastion (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Divine Righteousness (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Redemption (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Instinctive Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Bulwark Aura (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Bulwark Aura (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Bulwark Aura (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resistance Aura (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resistance Aura (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resistance Aura (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Strong Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Strong Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Strong Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Spellshield Aura (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Spellshield Aura (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Spellshield Aura (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Swift Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Hardy Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Hardy Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Hardy Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Fiendslayer I (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Courage of Heaven (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Fiendslayer II (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Improved Courage of Heaven (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Smite (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Damage Boost (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Damage Boost (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Damage Boost (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Sacrifice (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Vigor of Life (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Exalted Smite (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Censure Demons (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Passion (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Vigor of Life (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Training (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Bastion of Purity (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 21 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical

  14. #14
    Community Member Todkaninchen's Avatar
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    Nov 2011
    Posts
    319

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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    I still don't think S&B is a good idea, but if it's what you really want, who am I to say no?
    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 21 Lawful Good Halfling Female
    (18 Paladin \ 2 Monk \ 1 Epic) 
    Hit Points: 330
    Spell Points: 301 
    BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
    Fortitude: 25
    Reflex: 17
    Will: 16
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (36 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 21)
    Strength             15                    23
    Dexterity            10                    13
    Constitution         16                    19
    Intelligence         11                    14
    Wisdom                8                    11
    Charisma             16                    19
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Strength used at level 2
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 2
    +1 Tome of Constitution used at level 2
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 2
    +1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 2
    +1 Tome of Charisma used at level 2
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 6
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 6
    +3 Tome of Strength used at level 10
    +3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 10
    +3 Tome of Constitution used at level 10
    +3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 10
    +3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 10
    +3 Tome of Charisma used at level 10
    
    Level 1 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 2 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Sovereign Host
    
    
    Level 3 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery
    
    
    Level 4 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 5 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 6 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
    
    
    Level 7 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 8 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 9 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 10 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 11 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 12 (Monk)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery
    
    
    Level 13 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 14 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 15 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Healing
    
    
    Level 16 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 17 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 18 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
    
    
    Level 19 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 20 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Enhancement: Halfling - Halfling Luck (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Jorasco Dragonmark Focus (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Jorasco Dragonmark Focus (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Jorasco Dragonmark Focus (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Cunning (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Lesser Dragonmark of Healing (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Break Out The Leeches (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Guile (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Greater Dragonmark of Healing (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Halfling - Guile (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Holy Bastion (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Divine Righteousness (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Redemption (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Instinctive Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Bulwark Aura (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Bulwark Aura (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Bulwark Aura (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resistance Aura (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resistance Aura (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resistance Aura (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Strong Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Strong Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Strong Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Spellshield Aura (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Spellshield Aura (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Spellshield Aura (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Swift Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Hardy Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Hardy Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Hardy Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Fiendslayer I (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Courage of Heaven (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Fiendslayer II (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Improved Courage of Heaven (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Smite (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Damage Boost (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Damage Boost (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Damage Boost (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Sacrifice (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Vigor of Life (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Exalted Smite (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Censure Demons (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Passion (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Vigor of Life (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Training (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Bastion of Purity (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 21 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical
    That's an interesting build...

    Couple questions.

    Is that enough DEX to get evasion to work well? Or is it a "if it works most of the time, it's good"?

    What skills were you thinking with this build?

  15. #15
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Between Div Grace & halfling luck bonuses, I'm not worried about Reflex saves; and you could craft a Parasitic Breastplate or Chaosrobe with +10 Reflex. Or shift pts from CON into DEX; my first draft started DEX 14 & went for TWF instead of S&B.

    Skills: I always max UMD if I can, even as a crossclass skill, particularly on a build with high CHA. Beyond that, it's up to you: Concentration, Intim, Heal, some Balance, a rank of Tumble, whatever you think is most important. I would start INT 9 or 11 so it's even after your +3 INT tome kicks in.

  16. #16
    Community Member Todkaninchen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Between Div Grace & halfling luck bonuses, I'm not worried about Reflex saves; and you could craft a Parasitic Breastplate or Chaosrobe with +10 Reflex. Or shift pts from CON into DEX; my first draft started DEX 14 & went for TWF instead of S&B.

    Skills: I always max UMD if I can, even as a crossclass skill, particularly on a build with high CHA. Beyond that, it's up to you: Concentration, Intim, Heal, some Balance, a rank of Tumble, whatever you think is most important. I would start INT 9 or 11 so it's even after your +3 INT tome kicks in.
    Cool. That sounds like a good split, especially with a high CHA.

    I'll probably get a CHA Ioun Stone and maybe keep the persuasion goggles from this life as well. Have to see if Eyesblaze has one of my Heads of Good Fortune.

    So, other than (and within) the gear I have, any key equipment you suggest? Anything you like that isn't along the usual lines?

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