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  1. #1
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    Default planning dex based elf monkcher for next life

    Hi, Im considering to try for 5k favor next life, and for this id like a flexible, speedy build, a monkcher (not very innovative but at least no bard)

    basic ideas so far:

    dex/wis based: high reflex, high open lock (well...), no probs with ranged prereqs and MAD. Dex to Dam with shortswords (Ninja Spy) and longbows (Aerenal Elf), both centered. stats like 20 dex 16 wis 12 con some int, low str/cha

    elf race: dex to dam with bows, displacement dragonmarks, elven arcane archer tree, even automatic trapfinding

    12 monk 6 ranger 2 arti: 2 arti for trapskills, UMD and some spellpoints, plus a free lever-pulling dog if needed. 12/6 typical monkcher.

    ranged: bows, got a pinion and the bow from harbinger chain.
    melee: dual shortswords - centered, and ranger gets free twf feats anyway. Got a collection of shortswords from past lives.
    Self-healing: scrolls, wands, cocoon, monk light path stuff

    So, can anybody with experience on monkchers comment on this? How important is wisdom in this build? What about feats? Seems to have a lot of room for feats since I wont use PA/Cleave/OC

    feats: (7 heroic 3 monk 3 epic)
    PBS
    IPS
    10k stars
    IC:Ranged
    Grandmaster forms
    Zen archery
    Dragonmark

    Combat archery
    Epic Reflexes
    Improved Martial Arts (works on bows?)

    thanks for any pointers. The idea about making an elf monkcher isnt mine, but cant find the thread right now.
    Last edited by Makkuroi; 08-10-2014 at 06:42 AM.
    Zeugen der Dreizehn, Thelanis:
    Makkuroi, chain TR: currently drow pure caster warlock
    PLs: Completionist; 3xWiz, Sor; 2x Pal, Brd, Monk EPLs: 3x CotQ,Brc,DS,EW,EC 1xFH,PLD ; IPLs: 2x BF; 3x PDK, SDK

  2. #2
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    Personally I wouldn't bother making your build Dex based. It takes up a lot of AP in the elven tree for a bonus that is at best, marginal.

    The stats you should worry about:

    23str for overwhelming critical.
    21dex for improved combat archery.
    Some con/int if you want for hp/trapping.

    Then the rest of your build points should be invested in wisdom for your to hit / 10k stars.

    The Rangenmo link in my signature is an elven Str based monkcher that may help you out.

  3. #3
    Community Member Maelodic's Avatar
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    I'd only go Elf to get the displacement from dragonmarks which are more useful on a melee- as he said the bonus you get is marginal especially since you'll be going mostly WIS for 10k Stars. It'll be like 5-6 more damage for a ton of AP.
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  4. #4

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    yeah--I think the best argument for dex are the shuriken chuckers--you get bow str feat free so you might as well use it. Plus many of the dps epic destinies have STR buffs, not Dex

    I say this even as a committed Dex builder

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  5. #5
    Community Member -Zyxas-'s Avatar
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    /Sheepish Grin:

    Go Dex-based with shurikens, Zen Archery, IC:R, IC:T, and AP basically as you have proposed already.
    That way you are never single-arrow shooting, and Dex is not a "waste". I'm doing something similar, with levels in Dex instead of Wis, and it works great. Basically 2 feats invested for shurikens in addition to the bow stuff (Quick Draw and IC:T). A little squishy, and 10k is not as powerful as it would be on a wis-monkcher, but then you 10k with stars (can use it with bows if you want too, for DR bypass or flavor or temp SP procs).

    Just an idea.
    DISCLAIMER: Forums are a place of help - and of opposition... I'm not attempting to spark hostility. I state my opinions because I think they are useful. It is the reader's choice whether to adopt my opinions. I want to show people different reasoning and options so they can enjoy the game more fully. Usually this leads to walls of text. Sorry.

  6. #6
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    Elf is also nice for the elven aa tree.. but thats actually just the capstone you can get for 40 ap which is a bit much... using str would mean I could use handwraps and stunning fist, too. I still think ill skip OC and cleave, any ideas what i could get instead?

    If Id go strength based, what other races would be options? Human for HAmp and skills is the obvious choice, anything else?

    I think Ill go elf and try str and dex both, the 2 extra dex give me free stats, especially since I only got a +3 dex tome.
    Zeugen der Dreizehn, Thelanis:
    Makkuroi, chain TR: currently drow pure caster warlock
    PLs: Completionist; 3xWiz, Sor; 2x Pal, Brd, Monk EPLs: 3x CotQ,Brc,DS,EW,EC 1xFH,PLD ; IPLs: 2x BF; 3x PDK, SDK

  7. #7
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    didnt read the shuriken post before posting last post... wouldnt a shuriken build make more sense with drow and 20 monk lvls? Also, most arcane archer/ranged stuff would be wasted then... I really want to try arcane archer, havent done any AA since the enhancement reset.
    Zeugen der Dreizehn, Thelanis:
    Makkuroi, chain TR: currently drow pure caster warlock
    PLs: Completionist; 3xWiz, Sor; 2x Pal, Brd, Monk EPLs: 3x CotQ,Brc,DS,EW,EC 1xFH,PLD ; IPLs: 2x BF; 3x PDK, SDK

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Makkuroi View Post
    didnt read the shuriken post before posting last post... wouldnt a shuriken build make more sense with drow and 20 monk lvls? Also, most arcane archer/ranged stuff would be wasted then... I really want to try arcane archer, havent done any AA since the enhancement reset.
    There are a lot of versions of the star chuckers. Chect out The Meteor Shower, for example. But if you wish to try arcane archer, monkchers are powerful. I mentioned the star chuckers because of the dex--every point of dex is an increased chance to throw another one so the DPS is, in part, about maximizing that one stat.

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  9. #9
    Community Member Purkilius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makkuroi View Post
    didnt read the shuriken post before posting last post... wouldnt a shuriken build make more sense with drow and 20 monk lvls? Also, most arcane archer/ranged stuff would be wasted then... I really want to try arcane archer, havent done any AA since the enhancement reset.
    Did a dex based elf for a sorc past life 8 sorc 6 monk 6 ranger used shurikens mostly, bow only when manyshot was off timer and I have a human monkcher so I know how they compare.

    The shuriken build was more powerful esp. cc wise but I would never build a dex based monkcher that is a trap.

    Like the other posters if you are going dex based go for shuriken if not fTdOmen explained that

    Edit: before I tr´ed out of the build I filled the AA tree and slayer arrow works with shurikens even tried that out in fury with Whirling Wrists twisted worked good but shiradi was more fun.
    Last edited by Purkilius; 08-10-2014 at 03:18 PM.
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  10. #10
    Community Member -Zyxas-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makkuroi View Post
    didnt read the shuriken post before posting last post... wouldnt a shuriken build make more sense with drow and 20 monk lvls? Also, most arcane archer/ranged stuff would be wasted then... I really want to try arcane archer, havent done any AA since the enhancement reset.
    If you don't want to read this whole thing, or don't care about my opinion, basically I agree that a dex monkcher is not excellent, dex stars are good, and it is possible to combine them both to great effect. Also, elf marks are not that great for non-melee in most situations. If you want a regular monkcher, do str/wis like others have said. If you want dex, you could look into things I'm going into in this post... or just don't.

    Drow hardly helps shurikens. It saves you one feat, Shuriken Expertise, and gets you a whopping +4 damage from enhancements... Elf gets sneak/point blank range, ability to splash bows (which is why I brought it up, since you were originally planning a regular bow monkcher), and more build points. Halfling gets 3d6 sneak attack enhancements (10.5 damage/hit >>> 4 dmg/hit from drow, only takes a little item investment with some sort of deception, and DwS Sniper Shot is excellent as well for sneaks) and saves. 20 monk levels can be a good shuriken build, but is in no way the only one. It gains 5 dmg/hit and increases your crit profile (average mainhit number including chance of crits and misses) from 1.05 (IC:T) or 1.15 (halfling) to 1.25 from the ninja capstone, but mainhit number is about 1/2 to 1/3 of your damage as a chucker, so it's more like a 3% increase. Shurikens work with many, many classes. Ranger main works, monk main works, bard main works, rogue main works, arti main works, and any other class could work (maybe not barbarian) with less effectiveness. Basically swashbuckling or 3/6 monk is all that is needed for stars to "work", and past that anything that interacts favorably with shurikens.

    Annnd, AA works 90% with shurikens. Everything except for DR breaking imbues (you just need to equip a bow when you apply a regular imbue to make it active on shurikens) and the temp SP proc (moonbow I belive?). Force/elemental/para/fear/smiting/banishing arrows work, and all the clicky attacks are ranged attacks not bow attacks (Slayer arrow, dispell, shattermantle, inferno). Slayer arrow is better with shurikens than bows, actually, if you use slayer arrow ever outside of manyshot, because there are so many hits with a shuriken. A Bow + Shuriken is basically a monkcher with much better attacks without manyshot. It's a bit less tanky than some monkchers, but still works fine. You feel basically exactly like a "regular" arcane archer.

    Not that great of support, but my 500-hp AA/chucker held the aggro of Suulomades in E VoD at level 22, with level 25s in the party and other ranged/melee/shiradi caster damage oriented characters in the party, and with only putting out 80% threat (as in, less than 100% threat). Level 4 shadowdancer, bow of sinew, and a +1 holy silver shuriken. It feels and looks like I'm doing a lot of damage, and I stay alive fine. My previous life (bow-only monkcher) could tank EE raid bosses, but felt so much weaker in damage. At level 24, I now hit ~80-110 with Pinion on regular attacks, more than last life at 28. Probably because of less STR on a monkcher than DEX on a chucker, without Divine Might.
    Last edited by -Zyxas-; 08-10-2014 at 04:24 PM.
    DISCLAIMER: Forums are a place of help - and of opposition... I'm not attempting to spark hostility. I state my opinions because I think they are useful. It is the reader's choice whether to adopt my opinions. I want to show people different reasoning and options so they can enjoy the game more fully. Usually this leads to walls of text. Sorry.

  11. #11
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    thanks for all the infos, will probably try shuriken/bow hybrid then, without oc there are enough feats to go around.
    Zeugen der Dreizehn, Thelanis:
    Makkuroi, chain TR: currently drow pure caster warlock
    PLs: Completionist; 3xWiz, Sor; 2x Pal, Brd, Monk EPLs: 3x CotQ,Brc,DS,EW,EC 1xFH,PLD ; IPLs: 2x BF; 3x PDK, SDK

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