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  1. #41

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    Here's a potential solution to consider:

    Turbine adds a fixed location on the top deck for the ah, mail, bartender, bank and guild chest for all ships. These areas are initially blank, with no NPCs to click. As players, we have no ability to re-arrange them; only turn them on or off.

    If you place the corresponding newstyle buffs anywhere on the lower decks, the top deck versions "turn on." As in, if you place the Orien Express, the ah, mail and banker on the top deck become visible and usable. If you buy and place the banquet hall, the bartender shows up. (The banquet hall specifically, because that's the buff that turns the entire top deck into a tavern area.) If you buy and place any guild chest, that specific guild chest appears on the top deck.

    One key element is that all five of these top deck NPCs should be close to each other, located in the same area on the top deck. Specifically, the area where the buff bar is. No running up and down ramps or turning corners.


    If this were implemented, I'd switch my vote to "turn off the cargo hold." Without this, my vote remains to keep the cargo hold as-is.


    EDIT: Actually, one more thing: I will be most unhappy if/when we lose the ability to put a stone of change on the ship. This is currently only possible in the cargo hold.

  2. #42
    Community Member Syrrah's Avatar
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    I disagree with OP.

    I would prefer if the entire cargo hold was killed off in the next patch. There's a time for coming and a time for going, and now that we have our new buffs it's time to say goodby to the old ones. Sure some people will be angry, but on these forums that is always the case regardless of whatever Turbine does.

    Just add a mailbox, bar, banker and auctioneer on the top deck.

  3. #43
    Community Member Manatha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    The new ships/buffs are way better and our cargo hold is completely empty, but I agree with OP because people that earned rewards under the old system (the right to buy 5% xp buffs for plat as an example) shouldn't be forced to buy the same item with AS.
    Exactly.

    Keep it as is.

    I like the current system allowing us to use both and would hate to see the customized cargo holds go.

    My favorite is where one of my friends has a mass of target dummies in the cargo hold set up to let people test dps - and see their aoe from weapons hit all the target dummies at once to get a good measure of exactly what their weapon AoE is doing before they hit a dungeon.

    Oh how I wish I could. But you see if I do that my entire guild, several hundred players, will have no cargo hold as well. And while most of my guild members would be fine with that, a few would nag and complain to no end because I decided to not populate our ship with something they want for no good reason other than it is possible to have it. I already have to deal with a lot of questions from a few members about why the totally redundant stat shrines were allowed to expire. I admit, I am being a bit selfish here because I am the leader of a very large guild and I just don't want to deal with the cargo hold rentals anymore, now that they are essentially redundant and inferior. So either I have to deal with the old cargo hold stuff or I have to deal with explaining why I don't deal with the old cargo hold stuff over and over and over again.

    There is no situation here where people are being forced to pay AS for buffs that were available for plat. We have provided all the buffs. They are totally free to our members and their guests. They don't cost a single copper piece to any member. And now they drop as loot too! But yet people complain that they did not get some useless old buff handed to them for free, on top of all the new, vastly superior and far more convenient buffs. Get rid of the old junk. Move on.
    The total cost of those xp shrines regardless of who paid out for it in the end, is 1510 AS. No alternative, someone somewhere paid out that many AS into the guild. It doesnt matter if it was you or not, someone in the guild paid them out. I cannot see requiring every guild to pay that for something they already earned under the previous system to be allowed to continue using it.

    If they want the buffs, designate a few to be the ones that refresh those buffs and give them the rank needed to do it. Or designate an officer that collects donations from whoever wants them and make the officer deal with which get refreshed etc.

    I like the old buffs, and I keep all of them refreshed in the cargo hold because I am an officer and I like having the complete buffs.


    From what I'm reading, the higher level guilds have already gained +30 resist shrines that last through death (I assume through rooms that have to be upgraded). Mine is level 84, we do not get that yet - the 'old' +30 resist buffs that vanish when you die are all that we get, which makes having those legacy buffs important for us to have.

    I can't do the 3rd upgrade on the stormreaver's monument till guild level 95, and it's not till guild level 140 that I'd be able to use that shrine to effectively save the SP needed on those resists at level.

    We've earned the right to have all the +2 stat shrines, but opted to fill those with other new buffs we can't get off of the old system because we are still saving up for the new ship. The ship which does not get any form of a discount based on the one we bought previously under the system that gave us credit for the old ship when buying a new one.

    Before you start looking into changing everything to cater to the new bar and demolishing the cargo holds, realize that some of the guilds out there do not have the newest biggest ships yet and most likely will not have them for a long time to come.

    The new buffs are by far superior to the old ones in that they will last through death and pause in public areas. That does not however change the fact that not all guilds have access, and the cargo hold buffs while dated are still relevant for newer/lower level guilds.
    Last edited by Manatha; 07-26-2014 at 06:33 AM.
    Khyber Character: Main; Manathayria; Rogue making a circuit of paladin and other lives - yes I heal, but I expect a cookie when you don't die.

  4. #44
    Community Member GreataxeUser's Avatar
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    I hope they let us keep our Guild chests.

    I have two on my ship (House in the sky) that I use and are valuable assets for my game play and quality of life experience that if taken away will hurt my feelings.

    If I do not get to keep my Guild chests I might as well just get kicked in the (blankety blank).

    Yep the entire ship is mine and I have worked hard at it for just about 4 years to get to this point. Always taking renown for end rewards to earn those two Guild chests and I think I can say without bragging or being a winy baby that I am entitled to those chests and is a privilege earned for sacrificing a ton of hours of game play to take 4 years to get to the point I am at as a Guild of one.

    It is not easy to make a Guild of one, but the rewards are worth it. I get my own "House in the sky". Guild chests are awesome and I do not need to explain why. If they let us keep anything in the cargo hold, at least let us keep Guild chests as they are mandatory imo for me and I believe I am not asking that much as I earned the right to them.

  5. #45
    2015 DDO Players Council Starla70's Avatar
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    I want them to keep the cargo bay and the old buffs. Our guild worked hard to get to the point it is. The new system takes us back 8 to 10 buffs. It makes a small guild pretty pointless. The decision of what to keep and what to buy is not easy, trying to get 20 people to agree on anything is a chore. If the old buffs are kept or say down to 10 slots able to be used, if you don't want them as a guild, don't use them. Simple enough. Making sure no guild has that ability is nothing short of forcing you game play style onto others. I think having the choice would make more customers happy then not.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Here's a potential solution to consider:

    Turbine adds a fixed location on the top deck for the ah, mail, bartender, bank and guild chest for all ships. These areas are initially blank, with no NPCs to click. As players, we have no ability to re-arrange them; only turn them on or off.

    If you place the corresponding newstyle buffs anywhere on the lower decks, the top deck versions "turn on." As in, if you place the Orien Express, the ah, mail and banker on the top deck become visible and usable. If you buy and place the banquet hall, the bartender shows up. (The banquet hall specifically, because that's the buff that turns the entire top deck into a tavern area.) If you buy and place any guild chest, that specific guild chest appears on the top deck.

    I wholeheartedly agree! (I proposed almost the exact same thing before the update, when it was only on Lamannia).

    I don't know how much development time this would take but it would seem to be the solution that makes the most sense with the way the new buffs already work, and would address almost all the major concerns players have about it right now (exceptions being the XP shrines you have to pay tons of AS for, the missing Stone of Change, and things like losing the higher legacy Haggle bonus). However, the Stone of Change could be added as a new small room, XP shrine end chain reward drops could be boosted and the Throne Room Haggle could be increased, so these are all fixable...if they wanted to do so.

  7. #47

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    Regarding the stone of change, they could create a "legacy altar" small with stone of change, epic altar, and trapmaking workshop. (I believe none of those are available in the new buffs.)

  8. #48
    neck deep member Powskier's Avatar
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    as much as i like the bar/mailbox/bank combo ..id like to see them gone.way to much platinum spending on that junk in the hold.New system looks good w the pay one time theme.
    Mercyful Fate/ King Diamond link{ http://www.kingdiamondcoven.com } /''horror and moral terror are your friends'',Col. Kurtz/King Diamond Coven , lvl 80Ghallanda /51 Sarlona

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manatha View Post
    The total cost of those xp shrines regardless of who paid out for it in the end, is 1510 AS. No alternative, someone somewhere paid out that many AS into the guild. It doesnt matter if it was you or not, someone in the guild paid them out. I cannot see requiring every guild to pay that for something they already earned under the previous system to be allowed to continue using it.
    Um, this is not true. They drop as loot. You can acquire them just like you acquire gear. No need to pay any AS.

  10. #50
    2016 DDO Players Council eris2323's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tshober View Post
    Um, this is not true. They drop as loot. You can acquire them just like you acquire gear. No need to pay any AS.
    It is quite true; just because something has the chance to drop as loot, doesn't mean it will.

    0.0000000000001% of 0.0000000000001% chance is not much of a chance, and we had 100% of paying plat for our exp shrine.

    Haven't seen any drop at all in our guild; quite a lot of active players, though.

    If removed, that will mean we have to pay shards for something we had already unlocked through activity.

    And lots of activity.

    I want a refund on my activity, say, to the tune of 1500 shards or so should be fair.

  11. #51
    Community Member Bargol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tshober View Post
    Um, this is not true. They drop as loot. You can acquire them just like you acquire gear. No need to pay any AS.
    16 members running at least 8 hours a day completing at least 5 to 6 chains a day.....how many amenities have dropped? ZERO

    Yeah sure they drop in game I saw one on the ASAH for 1000 shards. The drop rate has to be so low most everyone would consider it zero percent chance.

    So yes all the amenities do cost astral shards. Taking away buffs or amenities that guilds earned and then requiring them to pay astral shards / money to get them back is a bad move.

    Its kinda funny there is hate for something you can ignore. If turbine takes away the old style buffs I will expect to see an option to turn off all the dumb pets following people around because if you can't ignore the cargo hold because you don't like it, then I can't ignore your stupid pet because I don't like it.....plain and simple.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bargol View Post
    16 members running at least 8 hours a day completing at least 5 to 6 chains a day.....how many amenities have dropped? ZERO

    Yeah sure they drop in game I saw one on the ASAH for 1000 shards. The drop rate has to be so low most everyone would consider it zero percent chance.

    So yes all the amenities do cost astral shards. Taking away buffs or amenities that guilds earned and then requiring them to pay astral shards / money to get them back is a bad move.

    Its kinda funny there is hate for something you can ignore. If turbine takes away the old style buffs I will expect to see an option to turn off all the dumb pets following people around because if you can't ignore the cargo hold because you don't like it, then I can't ignore your stupid pet because I don't like it.....plain and simple.
    Hey, I was just pointing out an inaccuracy. The exact words used were "no alternative" in reference to spending AS. There is an alternative. You may not like it but it exists. I know because my guild got our last new amenity buff (Otto's Irresistable Dancehall) via loot drop Sunday in CITW.

    And, as I have pointed out to you specifically before, I can't ignore the cargo hold amenities because some of my guild members won't let me, but I sure wish I could. Hmmm, if they did not exist, I could. And if loot drops did not exist then there there really would be "no alternative".
    Last edited by Tshober; 07-28-2014 at 06:41 PM.

  13. #53
    Community Member Nayus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syrrah View Post
    I disagree with OP.

    I would prefer if the entire cargo hold was killed off in the next patch. There's a time for coming and a time for going, and now that we have our new buffs it's time to say goodby to the old ones. Sure some people will be angry, but on these forums that is always the case regardless of whatever Turbine does.

    Just add a mailbox, bar, banker and auctioneer on the top deck.
    Applauded.

    People are just whining their Fighters can't cast Resist Energy. Try splashing some Ranger and Bard Levels, they're jsut as worth as any other class.
    And it's not like the dummy disappeared, bank and auctioneer disappeared, you just need to use your brain and put these things in the 1st level of the ship.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nayus View Post
    Applauded.

    People are just whining their Fighters can't cast Resist Energy. Try splashing some Ranger and Bard Levels, they're jsut as worth as any other class.
    And it's not like the dummy disappeared, bank and auctioneer disappeared, you just need to use your brain and put these things in the 1st level of the ship.
    Well, I'm not whining, but I'd like the cargo hold with the legacy buffs to stay. Because I, like many others, are casual players, and some of us have/or are in low level guilds, and there are no equivalent for platinum buffs.

    ...J
    Thelanis: HoeLee, Rasminder, Cerinah, Arlinah, Shrenn, Rowkhan, Paladonis - Jakburton's Porkchop Express (now hiring)

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  15. #55
    Community Member Nayus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamnJD View Post
    Well, I'm not whining, but I'd like the cargo hold with the legacy buffs to stay. Because I, like many others, are casual players, and some of us have/or are in low level guilds, and there are no equivalent for platinum buffs.

    ...J
    I don't understand why casual players need +30 Resists, casters in Normal difficulty don't even hit that hard.(and probably on Hard too depending on the caster, spell and dungeon scaling).

  16. #56
    Community Member GreataxeUser's Avatar
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    It should have been a given for all Guild ships to have certain amenities included with the ship on the top level as permanent, proven quality of life, infrastructure enhancing, don't break what works, that We have all said should be there.

    We know what those amenities are and I do not need to go into detail about them because it has already been drilled into our heads what those amenities are. With the changes that happened with Our ships there is no reason to loiter on the top level of a Gigantic ship. It is a big waste of space that removed an important comradery when these amenities were taken off the top level. That comradery was an important happy accident that was, what it was and had value to it. We would wait on the the top level while raids formed and see someone enter the ship, while at the same time work with the tools (tools being the amenities) that we needed and the person might be someone we knew and strike up a conversation and/ or spam emotes to and that just lead to a better quality game and the consequences from that lead to infinitely positive outcomes. The Top levels of Our ships are now just like a Gymnasium with no basket ball hoops, or anything else to spark imagination. The top levels of our ships are just a button now. Hmmph. Lets all gather around a button and....ya that just leads to boredom and since the buffs last so long there is no reason to stay on the top level anymore so the top level just remains empty.

    On a related note, I only enter the cargo hold every time I visit my ship and...ya, the cargo hold is where it's at. Party in the cargo hold with no ventilation, extra annoying loading screens thrown in and claustrophobia . Meh. The old way was better.
    Last edited by GreataxeUser; 07-29-2014 at 12:33 AM.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nayus View Post
    I don't understand why casual players need +30 Resists, casters in Normal difficulty don't even hit that hard.(and probably on Hard too depending on the caster, spell and dungeon scaling).
    I will clarify. Casual does not equal newb.

    I was referring to casual, as in players that can't put in mass amount of hours into the game. And so, we haven't gotten our guilds to high levels. So us 55 level guilds (for example) still appreciate the legacy buffs.

    ...J
    Thelanis: HoeLee, Rasminder, Cerinah, Arlinah, Shrenn, Rowkhan, Paladonis - Jakburton's Porkchop Express (now hiring)

    Sarlona: Aingell of Death, KimberLee, Soullaris the Divine, Bendyr - The Order of Cygnus

  18. #58
    Community Member Bargol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tshober View Post
    Hey, I was just pointing out an inaccuracy. The exact words used were "no alternative" in reference to spending AS. There is an alternative. You may not like it but it exists. I know because my guild got our last new amenity buff (Otto's Irresistable Dancehall) via loot drop Sunday in CITW.

    And, as I have pointed out to you specifically before, I can't ignore the cargo hold amenities because some of my guild members won't let me, but I sure wish I could. Hmmm, if they did not exist, I could. And if loot drops did not exist then there there really would be "no alternative".
    Bully for you that you guys were one of the lucky few who managed to pull a contract. Most people have not pulled them. To insist this means its ok to take away the plat option people already earned in game and force most to pay AS / cash is absurd. Personally my guild is full upgraded with all the buffs you can get....everything purchased, however if you look at many guilds they are not in the same position and rely on the plat buffs (xp, banker, tavern, mail, chest, alters, etc.

    As people have told you before if you don't want to deal with it let someone else that likes them deal with it...simple. Then you can ignore it.

    You want to force your likes or dislikes on others just like the pet example. I hate them but am forced to see and hear them constantly every where in the game. At least the cargo hold is something you can ignore for 4 weeks at a time.

    The design and layout of the new ships and buffs is not well thought out. The old way of being able to customize the top deck for convenience amenities and have everything close by was a much better design. 90% of the new ship design is fluff and window dressing that is neat the one time you go look at each room but completely wasted after that. If you want to get rid of the cargo hold then put all those buffs (hook points) on the top of the ship.

  19. #59
    Community Member Bargol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nayus View Post
    Applauded.

    People are just whining their Fighters can't cast Resist Energy. Try splashing some Ranger and Bard Levels, they're jsut as worth as any other class.
    And it's not like the dummy disappeared, bank and auctioneer disappeared, you just need to use your brain and put these things in the 1st level of the ship.
    No people with blinders on will not admit that removing amenities you can buy for plat under the old system and replacing them with amenities that are bought with real money is a real issue. Saying they drop in game is like saying +6 tomes drop in game.

    The cargo hold isn't all about resists. All anyone has to do is slot a gem that gives the 4 major resists and your done....the issue is the convenience amenities and the terrible layout and design of the new system.
    ...but feel free to keep those blinders on.

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