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  1. #61
    Community Member Jeremiah179's Avatar
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    A. Everyone basically fell for troll bait... except Thrudh. 2.5 years... just got around the issue? ( I was saying that all the way through page 1 and 2 !!!)

    B. There are a lot of roadblocks in the game, NONE are insurmountable as far as I know. Some are fairly hard if you insist solo no hireling... but there you are already being silly.

    C. The idea that turbine does not have these roadblocks anymore is not true. Go into Haunted Halls with 10 Strength and no Trapping and you may not leave the entryway...
    c1. It may be true that they avoid it in general, but that is not what is being said.

    D. Troll...

    E. I cant believe I read all the way through, like being addicted to DDO soap opera with many of the standard characters involved...lol sheesh!

    F. EDIT -- we need some meaner forum personalities again... I miss the troll... he would not of accepted this attempt and would of offered his online course to this fellow...
    Jeremiiah - Isaiiah - Zephaniiah - Ghallanda - Old Timers Guild

  2. #62
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    heh old skool UI. I don't miss them.

    good educational videos of why changes were made.

    even in 2009-10 the pull 1-2 mobs and bottleneck mobs tactics were still widely used and soloing normal was still considered a tough challenge. maybe not so much for those veteran players who had been playing since the beginning, but they knew the better tactics and patience that were passed down to us Frewbs. I still think those days of a good chance to wipe in any quest even on normal are better than today where its expected to beat every quest on elite or its considered a waste of our time.
    #MakeDDOGreatAgain

    You are the one choosing not to play alts.

    Casual player now investing way less than I used to into the game, playing 1-3 months at a time and still want nothing to do with Reaper. #improvepuggrouping#alldifficultiesmatter

  3. #63
    Founder Kylstrem's Avatar
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    Nice Chai... Way to take a statement as literal to attempt to make it sound like you had no idea what you were talking about.

    You specifically said
    "DDO as far back as 2006 was geared for soloers, as it had the normal/hard/elite difficulty system.
    That statement is wrong. "Geared for soloers" would mean to any intelligent person that Turbine designed the game so people could solo it. And that was not the case when it came out. The freakin' producer/designer claimed over and over. "This game is designed for grouping. It should require a diverse party with different classes and skills".
    He stuck to his guns until they showed him the door and were finally able to ease some of his "You must play the game like I want you to play it" edicts.
    (Trust me, I know first hand from one of the original devs how he would not bend to any attempts to make the game little less unforgiving for people who wanted to solo). And the game suffered mightily for it, in terms of subscriptions.

    When I said that "people were not running solo when the game out", it obviously didn't mean "Zero people were soloing".

    But the majority of people were not soloing, or at least not soloing successfully (thus leading to the game being a somewhat failure from the beginning).

    Soloing Normal was very difficult. Only certain classes really had somewhat of a chance of doing it, and only if they really went slow and spent lots of resources.

    And when the game came out, no one had millions of plat to buy wands and potions. There was no AH to buy certain items or to make money fast.

    Sure, there were people who managed to solo quests, even on elite. But those were exceptions. The game was NOT GEARED to soloers because of the N/H/E system. Everyone had to do Normal to start back then. You couldn't do H, until you completed the quest on Normal first. Groups weren't starting on elite. Elite usually meant a wipe for a pug that came together with a cleric who didn't know what they were doing, or just one person who didn't know what they were doing because that person aggro something accidentally in Durks.

    Hell, you'd get cursed or blinded by a kobold Shaman in Elite Durk's or Elite WW, and your cleric wasn't high enough level yet to cast remove blindness or Remove Curse, and you couldn't afford more than 1 or 2 Remove blindness/remove curse potions at the time.

    Don't try to change the argument by proving "Well 5% of the population was able to solo the quests when the game out, therefore I'm right... the game was geared towards soloers". The game definitely was NOT GEARED towards soloers, and that statement is wrong.

  4. #64
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kylstrem View Post
    Nice Chai... Way to take a statement as literal to attempt to make it sound like you had no idea what you were talking about.

    You specifically said

    That statement is wrong. "Geared for soloers" would mean to any intelligent person that Turbine designed the game so people could solo it. And that was not the case when it came out. The freakin' producer/designer claimed over and over. "This game is designed for grouping. It should require a diverse party with different classes and skills".
    Youre claims about how it was in 2006 have been refuted. There were people soloing normal, and the game was geared for it. People just couldnt run forward and swing their weapon and expect victory like they can today. Soloing then wasnt a no fail experience, but soloing was part of the game. It was the case when it came out.

    Did you even watch the videos I linked that quite literally refute your claim that no one was soloing in 2006?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylstrem View Post
    Sure, there were people who managed to solo quests, even on elite. But those were exceptions. .
    Now youre attempting to move the goal posts. Your first claim of people couldnt even solo normal was proven wrong so now you have to change the parameters of your claim. Your claim was people couldnt even solo normal. I showed you people soloing elite. No sir, the goal posts will remain in the same place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylstrem View Post
    The game was NOT GEARED to soloers because of the N/H/E system.
    False. Normal difficulty was good for soloing. It was still a challenge, but people did it regularly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylstrem View Post
    Everyone had to do Normal to start back then. .
    False. We could group with someone who had elite unlocked and do it once on elite without ever having to touch normal or hard.

    Every one of your claims about how it was back then have now been debunked. If you attempt to move the goal posts further, ima continue to pull your card on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylstrem View Post
    The game definitely was NOT GEARED towards soloers, and that statement is wrong.
    False. Normal difficulty was soloable. Here you attempt to move the goal posts again by going from "no one was soloing even on normal" to "not geared for soloing".

    The reality of the situation in that era is those advocating soloing would not settle for normal difficulty being the solo difficulty and cried doom that the game would die if the entirety of the game on all difficulties wasnt geared for soloing. Eventually this lead to what we have today in heroics, eroded difficulty with scaling on top of that which makes most quests soloable on elite by most people, making it too easy on hard or normal, which people only run to farm first time completions on those difficulties. Yeah, they have to keep someting around for first timers who trickle in from time to time.
    Last edited by Chai; 07-16-2014 at 09:14 AM.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post

    False. Normal difficulty was soloable.
    The issue with all the complaining is those advocating soloing would not settle for normal difficulty being the solo difficulty and cried doom that the game would die if the entirety of the game on all difficulties wasnt geared for soloing. Eventually this lead to what we have today in heroics, eroded difficulty with scaling on top of that which makes most quests soloable on elite.
    I obviously haven't played DDO back then but i remember it had a reputation of being close to impossible to solo in.
    So whats your definition of geared for solo ? Is EE today geared for solo ? Cause i would consider it soloable but not geared for solo. Geared for solo means basically everyone everywhere with any class can do it with little to no hiccup, say landscape quests in WoW or normal now in DDO.

    If normal back then was soloable that would mean that only some people could do it, and alot of people wouldn't bother. That's obviously a problem for a game having close to no fallback content if you don't want to or can't find a group (again like landscape quests in Wow).
    I know this was basically Industry standard before WoW (Say in EQ or Daoc) but it doesn't fly today anymore and didn't fly at any point past WoW unless you really only want to stay in a very small niche (pathfinder MMO)
    Last edited by Pandir; 07-16-2014 at 09:26 AM. Reason: Quoting is hard

  6. #66
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandir View Post
    I obviously haven't played DDO back then but i remember it had a reputation of being close to impossible to solo in.
    So whats your definition of geared for solo ? Is EE today geared for solo ? Cause i would consider it soloable but not geared for solo. Geared for solo means basically everyone everywhere with any class can do it with little to no hiccup, say landscape quests in WoW or normal now in DDO.
    Thank you for reinforcing what Ive been stating the entire time. You went straight to EE without mentioning EH or EN. The myth on these forums, is that elite is the measuring stick. Even if you only did this subcounciously, it still shows what I have been outlining. People are not willing to settle for normal as the solo difficulty.

    I would consider epic normal currently geared for soloing, in epic levels currently, even by someone who has not earned alot of named gear in heroics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pandir View Post
    If normal back then was soloable that would mean that only some people could do it, and alot of people wouldn't bother. That's obviously a problem for a game having close to no fallback content if you don't want to or can't find a group (again like landscape quests in Wow).
    No, people could do it, as outlined by most of the accomplishments being posted being hard or elite. People were not willing to settle for normal as the solo difficulty with hard and elite being for groups. THey advocated for elite to be soloable, and some even advocated for it to be soloable without having to prepare - which defeated the entire purpose of a N/H/E system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pandir View Post
    I know this was basically Industry standard before WoW (Say in EQ or Daoc) but it doesn't fly today anymore and didn't fly at any point past WoW unless you really only want to stay in a very small niche (pathfinder MMO)
    Once the entitlement based gaming bottoms out, we will see a rebound of forced cooperation. It may not hit the extreme like EQ where it took the entire party to kill one mob, but it will rebound a bit, as people realize the decree of "everything must be solo-able" to be absurd. Until then, we got games where we can kill groups of mobs at run speed without even looking back or stopping.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Thank you for reinforcing what Ive been stating the entire time. You went straight to EE without mentioning EH or EN. The myth on these forums, is that elite is the measuring stick. Even if you only did this subcounciously, it still shows what I have been outlining. People are not willing to settle for normal as the solo difficulty.

    I would consider epic normal currently geared for soloing, in epic levels currently, even by someone who has not earned alot of named gear in heroics.



    No, people could do it, as outlined by most of the accomplishments being posted being hard or elite. People were not willing to settle for normal as the solo difficulty with hard and elite being for groups. THey advocated for elite to be soloable, and some even advocated for it to be soloable without having to prepare - which defeated the entire purpose of a N/H/E system.



    Once the entitlement based gaming bottoms out, we will see a rebound of forced cooperation. It may not hit the extreme like EQ where it took the entire party to kill one mob, but it will rebound a bit, as people realize the decree of "everything must be solo-able" to be absurd. Until then, we got games where we can kill groups of mobs at run speed without even looking back or stopping.
    I think you misunderstand me I did go to EE especially because it's my definition of soloable, it's doable but for the most part not easy and most people will not solo most quests on EE at any point.
    Geared for solo would be normal as it is really easy for everyone, EH would be in between with more leaning towards geared for solo. All are equally geared for group play too though.
    It was for definition of solo back then, if it was soloable like EE is today than it's pretty clear why the game was considered close to impossible to solo, if normal was close to like today yes it was geared for solo.
    Basically you need fallback content that everyone and their mom can solo if no groups are around.

    I would be one enjoying hard and elite being soloable. As said a few times before DDO is a solo D&D game with nice persistant characer progression for me.
    If you make Hard and Elite unsoloable through mechanics or tuning it would basically lock me out of 33 - 66% of content, it's very probable I'd just quit.
    Not that i mind that too much it's just a game, but i obviously I oppose a change that makes me quit.
    (For the record i came here after U14 when the game was made accessible for solo play precisely because I heard it now was)

    I doubt there will be a rebound the market has changed dramatically, it's more likely there will be less and less MMOrpgs. Keep in mind that Everquest and Daoc would be very niche by todays standard (Of course DDO is too :P).
    Fits my current playstyle pretty well but I'm basically fading out of the MMO market anyways I just log in to WOW once in a while for friends, and play DDO as fun solo game.
    Last edited by Pandir; 07-16-2014 at 10:52 AM.

  8. #68
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandir View Post
    Geared for solo would be normal as it is really easy for everyone,
    No, thats the myth perpetuated but its not true. Geared for solo =/= success rate 100% easy for everyone. Geared for soloing does not mean someone has to be able to complete with no effort, preparation, or skillful play. It means this can be soloed, with some effort put in. People were able to do this at launch by using choke points, corners, and playing strategically.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pandir View Post
    It was for definition of solo back then, if it was soloable like EE is today than it's pretty clear why the game was considered close to impossible to solo, if normal was close to like today yes it was geared for solo.
    Basically you need fallback content that everyone and their mom can solo if no groups are around.
    There was alot of hyperbole on the forums back then about game not being soloable, because people wanted it to be like it is now, where you can just run through, kill at max running speed without slowing down. Normal was the fallback difficulty. People would not accept normal as the solo difficulty however, and cried doom and threatened to leave the game is elite wasnt soloable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pandir View Post
    I would be one enjoying hard and elite being soloable. As said a few times before DDO is a solo D&D game with nice persistant characer progression for me.
    If you make Hard and Elite unsoloable through mechanics or tuning it would basically lock me out of 33 - 66% of content, it's very probable I'd just quit.
    Not that i mind that too much it's just a game, but i obviously I oppose a change that makes me quit.
    The opposite is also true, if you make elite soloable and easy, it becomes boring for people who were already soloing elite. By retaining you, the game lost top end players. This is why people needed to leave the N/H/E system alone, and accept N as the solo difficulty, H as the shortman difficulty and E as the full group and forced cooperation difficulty. Players outline that if the game isnt soloable the solo players leave, but they fail to mention that making the hardest difficulties soloable makes the game boring for those who were already doing those toughest difficulties. If you absolutely will not group and only will solo, that is a playstyle choice you are making. Being "locked out of" 66% of the content is a choice made by the player due to lack of willingness to group with other players. The game isnt the roadblock in that situation, the player is. They are limiting themselves by choosing to never group with other players in an MMO. The company can choose to value those players by giving them a setting to play on, but doing so at the expense of being able to retain other types of players is counterproductive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pandir View Post
    I doubt there will be a rebound the market has changed dramatically, it's more likely there will be less and less MMOrpgs. Keep in mind that Everquest and Daoc would be very niche by todays standard (Of course DDO is too :P).
    Fits my current playstyle pretty well but I'm basically fading out of the MMO market anyways I just log in to WOW once in a while for friends, and play DDO as fun solo game.
    EQ still has more players than DDO - today.

    There will be a rebound, as soon as companies realize that by making the entire game easy peasy for casual players, they are making it boring for top end players. It wont rebound all the way back to the EQ extreme where the entire party is needed to kill one mob, but there will be a rebound. Having a core group of top end players contributes alot more to the success of the game. These are the folks who write the quest/raid strategies, create game playing guides, builds that work in more difficult content, maps for explorers and quest zones, etc. Sooner or later, companies will realize keeping these people around is good for the financial success of a game. Catering entirely to the soloers while losing the top end gamers does not.
    Last edited by Chai; 07-16-2014 at 11:34 AM.

  9. #69
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    I think some folks when considering "soloability" mistake difficulty with forgiving.

    DDO on normal difficulty in 2006 was not difficult. Some things were unforgiving. Examples Kylstrem outlined like being tripped or held usually meaning being killed could be avoided, but if it happened even once, it was unforgiving.

    This video iterates the difference between difficulty and punishing pretty well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea6UuRTjkKs

    He also debunks the myth that character death equates to difficulty.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    No, thats the myth perpetuated but its not true. Geared for solo =/= success rate 100% easy for everyone. Geared for soloing does not mean someone has to be able to complete with no effort, preparation, or skillful play. It means this can be soloed, with some effort put in. People were able to do this at launch by using choke points, corners, and playing strategically.

    There was alot of hyperbole on the forums back then about game not being soloable, because people wanted it to be like it is now, where you can just run through, kill at max running speed without slowing down. Normal was the fallback difficulty. People would not accept normal as the solo difficulty however, and cried doom and threatened to leave the game is elite wasnt soloable.
    I think we have a different definition of what is geared for solo and soloable. If the only possibility of soloing is hard and there is no easy alternative except for grouping, people will see the game as nearly unsoloable.
    In that case the reputation was deserved.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    The opposite is also true, if you make elite soloable and easy, it becomes boring for people who were already soloing elite. By retaining you, the game lost top end players. This is why people needed to leave the N/H/E system alone, and accept N as the solo difficulty, H as the shortman difficulty and E as the full group and forced cooperation difficulty. Players outline that if the game isnt soloable the solo players leave, but they fail to mention that making the hardest difficulties soloable makes the game boring for those who were already doing those toughest difficulties. If you absolutely will not group and only will solo, that is a playstyle choice you are making. Being "locked out of" 66% of the content is a choice made by the player due to lack of willingness to group with other players. The game isnt the roadblock in that situation, the player is. They are limiting themselves by choosing to never group with other players in an MMO. The company can choose to value those players by giving them a setting to play on, but doing so at the expense of being able to retain other types of players is counterproductive.
    Frankly i don't care deciding who to retain and who not to is Turbines job not mine. Of course it's my decision to only limit myself solo i don't enjoy grouping anymore why would I.
    No one is forcing you to solo either in this game, if you simply take out scaling as often suggested it wouldn't make things a slide harder for grouping anyways, it would just make short manning harder.
    I'm still obviously gonna oppose any change that that would basically kill the game for me. If they implement it fine I'll leave no sweat but I'd prefer not to.
    Much like the people wanting the forced grouping back.
    You'll notice though that I'm fine with changes to encourage grouping that don't flat out kill my play style.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    EQ still has more players than DDO - today.
    I'd like to see some numbers on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    There will be a rebound, as soon as companies realize that by making the entire game easy peasy for casual players, they are making it boring for top end players. It wont rebound all the way back to the EQ extreme where the entire party is needed to kill one mob, but there will be a rebound. Having a core group of top end players contributes alot more to the success of the game. These are the folks who write the quest/raid strategies, create game playing guides, builds that work in more difficult content, maps for explorers and quest zones, etc. Sooner or later, companies will realize keeping these people around is good for the financial success of a game. Catering entirely to the soloers while losing the top end gamers does not.

    Doubt it ,the way the industry is going that seems unlikely except as said on games specially aiming to do so. But never say never, I expect to not be playing any MMO anymore long before any such change though.

  11. #71
    Founder & Hero cdbd3rd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleus View Post
    Not anymore, but if you've played long enough you can regale the young whippersnappers with stories of when blindness used to be permanent.....

    Oh, yesss...

    When all the worlds were fresh and new - and no cleric existed yet that could cure it even if they wanted to.





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  12. #72
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandir View Post
    Frankly i don't care deciding who to retain and who not to is Turbines job not mine. Of course it's my decision to only limit myself solo i don't enjoy grouping anymore why would I.
    No one is forcing you to solo either in this game, if you simply take out scaling as often suggested it wouldn't make things a slide harder for grouping anyways, it would just make short manning harder.
    I'm still obviously gonna oppose any change that that would basically kill the game for me. If they implement it fine I'll leave no sweat but I'd prefer not to.
    Much like the people wanting the forced grouping back.
    You'll notice though that I'm fine with changes to encourage grouping that don't flat out kill my play style.
    Retaining you and others with your chosen playstyle, at the expense of those who like to group, will also kill the game for you in a situation where catering to one group while not caring about another challenges the financial viability of the game itself. You should then oppose changes that make the top end gamers attrite in order to cater to those who choose to solo and will not group. Or, accept normal as the solo difficulty and let those who like to group have hard and elite.

    Unless of course you feel that Turbine can keep this game around by monetizing one playstyle and not the others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pandir View Post
    Doubt it ,the way the industry is going that seems unlikely except as said on games specially aiming to do so. But never say never, I expect to not be playing any MMO anymore long before any such change though.
    That rebound is already happening. the industry is learning the difference between difficult and unforgiving. Games that are challenging are coming out, which are more forgiving.
    Last edited by Chai; 07-16-2014 at 12:32 PM.

  13. #73
    Founder Kylstrem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Youre claims about how it was in 2006 have been refuted. There were people soloing normal, and the game was geared for it. People just couldnt run forward and swing their weapon and expect victory like they can today. Soloing then wasnt a no fail experience, but soloing was part of the game. It was the case when it came out.

    Did you even watch the videos I linked that quite literally refute your claim that no one was soloing in 2006?



    Now youre attempting to move the goal posts. Your first claim of people couldnt even solo normal was proven wrong so now you have to change the parameters of your claim. Your claim was people couldnt even solo normal. I showed you people soloing elite. No sir, the goal posts will remain in the same place.
    No, you moved the goal posts by taking a literal interpretation of my statement that "people were not soloing normal" to mean "Not a single person could solo normal when it came out". Twisting the meaning of my post so you "can be right" does not make you right.

    The game, for the majority of players was not soloable. And it definitely was not geared towards soloing. "Geared towards soloing" would mean the designers wanted people to solo quests. This was not the case. And you posting a couple of Youtube videos of people doing that does not reinforce your argument. That's a few examples of anecdotal evidence.

    I can post some videos of people soloing VoD on Elite (back when level cap was 20). I supposed I could say VoD Elite was geared for solo play using your logic.



    Every one of your claims about how it was back then have now been debunked. If you attempt to move the goal posts further, ima continue to pull your card on it.
    You are freakin' hilarious. You can't just say False... Ha ha debunked because I said so. You continue to double-down on being wrong, and then trying to prove being right by providing only anecdotal evidence.





    eroded difficulty with scaling on top of that which makes most quests soloable on elite by most people.
    False... there is no scaling on Elite difficulty. Same difficulty.... same number of mobs whether you have 1 person in quest or six.


    You are the only one moving goal posts. the original as released in 2006 was in no way "geared towards solo" play. You can keep saying "yes it was, you are moving goal posts, but I posted a couple videos to show that some people were very good at it".

    "Geared towards solo" would mean to any sensible person that anyone with any class would have a very good chance of soloing every quest in the game.

    And you have not proven that by a long shot.

    But I know you can't admit being mistaken, so I expect a further response from you, probably containing the word "False" several times with quoted text.

  14. #74
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kylstrem View Post
    No, you moved the goal posts by taking a literal interpretation of my statement that "people were not soloing normal" to mean "Not a single person could solo normal when it came out". Twisting the meaning of my post so you "can be right" does not make you right.

    The game, for the majority of players was not soloable. And it definitely was not geared towards soloing. "Geared towards soloing" would mean the designers wanted people to solo quests. This was not the case. And you posting a couple of Youtube videos of people doing that does not reinforce your argument. That's a few examples of anecdotal evidence.

    I can post some videos of people soloing VoD on Elite (back when level cap was 20). I supposed I could say VoD Elite was geared for solo play using your logic.





    You are freakin' hilarious. You can't just say False... Ha ha debunked because I said so. You continue to double-down on being wrong, and then trying to prove being right by providing only anecdotal evidence.







    False... there is no scaling on Elite difficulty. Same difficulty.... same number of mobs whether you have 1 person in quest or six.


    You are the only one moving goal posts. the original as released in 2006 was in no way "geared towards solo" play. You can keep saying "yes it was, you are moving goal posts, but I posted a couple videos to show that some people were very good at it".

    "Geared towards solo" would mean to any sensible person that anyone with any class would have a very good chance of soloing every quest in the game.

    And you have not proven that by a long shot.

    But I know you can't admit being mistaken, so I expect a further response from you, probably containing the word "False" several times with quoted text .
    I showed you my evidence, proving your initial claim false. I did not move any goal posts. You did after being proven incorrect. You attempted to dismiss the videos as a small percentage of folks who could do it. You claimed it was not done, then when shown it was done, moved the goal posts.

    Now show me yours supporting evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylstrem View Post
    the original as released in 2006 was in no way "geared towards solo" play.
    You are again mistaking difficulty with unforgiving, as I also previously outlined.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylstrem View Post
    You are freakin' hilarious. You can't just say False... Ha ha debunked because I said so. You continue to double-down on being wrong, and then trying to prove being right by providing only anecdotal evidence.
    You claimed the game wasnt soloable when it first came out. I provided videos of people soloing DDO in april of 2006. Thats not anecdotal evidence. Its factual evidence.

    Your initial claim is debunked and proven false.
    Last edited by Chai; 07-16-2014 at 01:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Retaining you and others with your chosen playstyle, at the expense of those who like to group, will also kill the game for you in a situation where catering to one group while not caring about another challenges the financial viability of the game itself. You should then oppose changes that make the top end gamers attrite in order to cater to those who choose to solo and will not group. Or, accept normal as the solo difficulty and let those who like to group have hard and elite.

    Unless of course you feel that Turbine can keep this game around by monetizing one playstyle and not the others.
    The premise is simply fun if I'm not having fun I'll simply move on, of course while I'm having fun I'll throw quite some money at Turbine.
    I'm not opposed to making EE or even EH harder I'm only opposed to removing the ability to solo or forcing grouping. One doesn't require the other.
    Don't pretend this is about the welfare of the game it's simply that you'd like your Play Style incentived more or even maybe forced on others.
    There is nothing preventing you from grouping.
    But hey if the only way to retain those players is too make the game less fun for me, let's say i have nothing to lose, so I'll take my changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    That rebound is already happening. the industry is learning the difference between difficult and unforgiving. Games that are challenging are coming out, which are more forgiving.

    Name some.

    The dark souls series isn't exactly forgiving. What else is there ?

  16. #76
    Founder Kylstrem's Avatar
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    Chai, just answer one question.

    Were you playing the game in Feb 2006?


    Your forum join date shows 2008... I know some people didn't join immediately. However, I can't believe you would have waited two years to start posting on here based on your current post count.

    Your arguments on this topic definitely sound like someone who did not experience the game in that first year. Most likely why you are relying on other people's experiences (Youtube videos) instead of your own actual experiences.

  17. #77
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kylstrem View Post
    Chai, just answer one question.

    Were you playing the game in Feb 2006?


    Your forum join date shows 2008... I know some people didn't join immediately. However, I can't believe you would have waited two years to start posting on here based on your current post count.

    Your arguments on this topic definitely sound like someone who did not experience the game in that first year. Most likely why you are relying on other people's experiences (Youtube videos) instead of your own actual experiences.
    Yes. I played in feb - dec of 2006.

    Please watch the youtube videos of people soloing DDO in 2006. They directly refute your claim that no one was doing so.

    SInce you have nothing that refutes the evidence I provided, youre now attempting to discredit by asserting I didnt play back then using forum join date and post count?

    BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Last edited by Chai; 07-16-2014 at 01:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Once the entitlement based gaming bottoms out, we will see a rebound of forced cooperation. It may not hit the extreme like EQ where it took the entire party to kill one mob, but it will rebound a bit, as people realize the decree of "everything must be solo-able" to be absurd. Until then, we got games where we can kill groups of mobs at run speed without even looking back or stopping.
    I don't see this happening to any great extent. It simply doesn't make sense to try to get people to pay you for the right to do nothing until other decide to join you, or to do what others want to do. Not in a world where every room in the house has a TV that allows us each to watch what we want and only watch together when it suits us. Compromise simply can't compete with having it your way.

  19. #79
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kylstrem View Post
    And it definitely was not geared towards soloing. "Geared towards soloing" would mean the designers wanted people to solo quests. This was not the case.
    Chai, he's right about this. Admit your phrase was somewhat inaccurate just this one time.

    The game was not "geared towards soloing" in 2006.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by TedSandyman View Post
    Some people brag about how fast they finished the game. I cant think of a stupider thing to brag about. Or in this game, going from level 1 to level 30 in two days, or however long it takes. I can't even begin to imagine what drives a person to think that is fun. You are ignoring all of the content and options and going for sheer speed. It is like going to a museum and bragging about how fast you made it through. Or bragging about how fast you finished a good steak.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    There were people soloing normal, and the game was geared for it.
    I poke fun at Thrudh, but he is right on this Chai:

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Chai, he's right about this. Admit your phrase was somewhat inaccurate just this one time.

    The game was not "geared towards soloing" in 2006.
    Absolutely, the game was not geared toward the masses doing solo play, I would assert, until the intro of hirelings, except for the elite players with access to a nice page of Raid gear, plat for pots.
    The evolution of DDO: Stormreach to Eberron Unlimited to Dungeons & Dragons Online
    -1- -2- -3- -4- -5- -6- -7- -8- -9- -10 - -11- -12!! years & still spawning kobolds
    From Turbine to SSG, who are the devs anyway? DDO Peeps Tracker


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