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  1. #41
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    Hey, I have some quests in Fury in my ranger solos thread ( at least DA before u 21 is there, but only screenshots ).
    Don't see a way to do Breaking the ranks without extensive patience and cheesy safe spots.

    But I could give Tor a try ( with screenshot " coverage ") in Fury I guess. It's gonna be major pita though
    I agree with your point though, about Blitz. And I don't think hardest quests in game should be soloed either.
    Last edited by Wipey; 07-06-2014 at 05:37 PM.

    Shahang (fvs caster), Bellezza (assassin), Wipekin (monkcher), Farida (air savant), Nezhat (melee) Ghallanda/Devourer

  2. #42
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moo_cow View Post
    A melee that doesn't use mortal fear? And a melee that doesn't blitz? why?
    Because right now end game melee is being propped up by completely arbitrary damage multipliers, and affixes on weapons which have completely arbitrary effects.

    This is what they had to do in order to balance end game melee to end game casters.
    Last edited by Chai; 07-06-2014 at 05:44 PM.

  3. #43
    Community Member Blackheartox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    Can you build one of those and solo the 4 quests in the first post of this thread?

    Can we have a video of it?

    Or alternatively, do you have any video of one of those builds doing it, not necessarily piloted by you?

    I am sure you guys understand that I don't take anyone's word. I want to see it, the forums are full of people claiming stuff (not saying its you, just in general).
    I could do it if i get into mood after vacation, plan to do a 12 ranger 6 monk 2 palie /or prolly different setup tempest in fury,
    current 3 ideas i have are 12 monk 6 ranger 2 palie, 12 ranger 6 monk 2 palie, and the one im liking most 11 ranger 6 monk 3 rogue (double evasion!! who doesnt like double evasion) dex based halfling tempest with manyshot as option, even tho its dex based burst will be there.

    But keep in mind that my toon is kinda godly, as it has 6 tomes triple heroic, triple iconic double epic completionist and all the gear i need to be highly effective, not using mortal or dread would only serve to prove it can be done.
    So my input would not be what you call a good comparison factor

  4. #44
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    I picked some "hard" quests that cannot be perched / almost completely skipped by running and jumping.

    I am open for suggestions for the challenge, though, if you think there are other "hard" quests out there that can serve the purpose of my challenge.

    Just to be clear, the claim is that you have a rogue build that can solo EE quests with the conditions I specified?

    Can you solo any of the quests I mentioned?

    If the answer is yes, I would love to see your build and vids posted here.

    PS - You ll have to understand that I cannot take your word for it.
    You can't take anyone's word that builds work in EE solo w/ other than Mortal fear & blitz based on your play experience only.

    Too bad there are tons options you'll miss because you only understand videos

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wipey View Post
    Hey, I have some quests in Fury in my ranger solos thread ( at least DA before u 21 is there, but only screenshots ).
    Don't see a way to do Breaking the ranks without extensive patience and cheesy safe spots.

    But I could give Tor a try ( with screenshot " coverage ") in Fury I guess. It's gonna be major pita though
    I agree with your point though, about Blitz. And I don't think hardest quests in game should be soloed either.
    That would be great. I am not completely sold on "allowing" manyshot, since essentially is not a melee ability. I am perfectly aware that melees can have it alright. But down that line, wouldn't it even be better to go full ranged? It is understood that a good monkcher can solo almost everything in the game, including a lot of the raids (Sestra has done it). So manyshot is basically "borrowing" that OPness from those builds for burst damage. But in any case lets not be too pursit and see the build work

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Because right now end game melee is being propped up by completely arbitrary damage multipliers, and affixes on weapons which have completely arbitrary effects.

    This is what they had to do in order to balance end game melee to end game casters.
    I don't envy their job. How to balance melees with casters blasting for thousands of damage points in rapid fire. Of course casters in principle would have the SP limitation, but then those who want to solo complain. However, if it is really true you can only go mortal fear / blitz for top end game, I think it is a bad way of balancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackheartox View Post
    I could do it if i get into mood after vacation, plan to do a 12 ranger 6 monk 2 palie /or prolly different setup tempest in fury,
    current 3 ideas i have are 12 monk 6 ranger 2 palie, 12 ranger 6 monk 2 palie, and the one im liking most 11 ranger 6 monk 3 rogue (double evasion!! who doesnt like double evasion) dex based halfling tempest with manyshot as option, even tho its dex based burst will be there.

    But keep in mind that my toon is kinda godly, as it has 6 tomes triple heroic, triple iconic double epic completionist and all the gear i need to be highly effective, not using mortal or dread would only serve to prove it can be done.
    So my input would not be what you call a good comparison factor
    Let's see how that goes. I am experimenting myself with fury and single weapon fighting, but it doesn't seem to be reliable enough to bring an alternative to blitz in terms of DPS.

  6. #46
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    Theirs a saying. EE bring your A destiny.

    It means don't bring a knife to a gunfight.

    As a melee theirs not even a handful of destinies to really choose from.

    You have Fury for one hit ko bursts, and your timed furyshots;

    LD which is by far THE solo destiny, and even in group not to bad with the extra dmg. And then their is Dcrusader as a mix between dmg and survival for you and a group, as well as the defensive destiny of sentinel if your going to be the hate man.

    If your a monk or a bard theirs an extra choice but its usually those four. And I don't think id take in progress destinies into EE as it's needlessly challenging. Your their to grind out the xp to tr again. And EE doesn't fit that bill for xp per min.
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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodspeed View Post
    Theirs a saying. EE bring your A destiny.

    It means don't bring a knife to a gunfight.

    As a melee theirs not even a handful of destinies to really choose from.

    You have Fury for one hit ko bursts, and your timed furyshots;

    LD which is by far THE solo destiny, and even in group not to bad with the extra dmg. And then their is Dcrusader as a mix between dmg and survival for you and a group, as well as the defensive destiny of sentinel if your going to be the hate man.

    If your a monk or a bard theirs an extra choice but its usually those four. And I don't think id take in progress destinies into EE as it's needlessly challenging. Your their to grind out the xp to tr again. And EE doesn't fit that bill for xp per min.
    Just to be clear, this thread is not about finding the most efficient way to grind destinies or whatever.

    It is about me declaring my incapacity to build a melee character effective in end game outside of blitz and mortal fear.

    I proposed a simple "challenge" to ask other people if they had found that build. It is in the first post.

    I agree, this is related to the current state of the balance between melees and ranged (both casters and archers). But I wouldn't want that to overcome my question, which I think is a legitimate one.

  8. #48
    Community Member Lagin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    a melee character effective in end game outside of blitz and mortal fear.

    I proposed a simple "challenge" to ask other people if they had found that build. It is in the first post.
    .
    Well, the power gamers and uber elitists will think you're nutz for not using the FotM build/ tactic. Meh....



    My meager melee w/ SoS in DC and momentum swing twisted in works just fine.

    That is I HAVE FUN with it. That's why I play.

    Not optimal, but that's my point.


    Good thread.
    Last edited by ferd; 07-06-2014 at 08:56 PM.

  9. #49
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post

    I don't envy their job. How to balance melees with casters blasting for thousands of damage points in rapid fire. Of course casters in principle would have the SP limitation, but then those who want to solo complain. However, if it is really true you can only go mortal fear / blitz for top end game, I think it is a bad way of balancing.
    While I don't believe it to be the only way, it is the most viable in orders of magnitude, especially for soloers. The others involve sawing down 300khp bosses with less overall DPS and a burst here and there.

    Most of the gripes people have had in the past can all be traced back to time consumption. Adding on arbitrary damage multipliers was a hilarious solution.

  10. #50
    Community Member Inferno346's Avatar
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    Good thread; I had a similar gripe with caster divines (before the EA changes and enhancement pass, haven't played enough post-that to know if it's changed).

    One of the fundamental problems with DDO is that the answer to many questions is "I won't do that because it's too boring" rather than "I can't do that because it's too hard".
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  11. #51
    Community Member Gargalarg's Avatar
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    Is melee really that broken?

    Honestly compared to shiradi casters and monkchers they are more balanced imo.

  12. #52
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gargalarg View Post
    Is melee really that broken?

    Honestly compared to shiradi casters and monkchers they are more balanced imo.
    If melee is balanced compared to shiradi casters and fury monkchers... another way of looking at this is shiradi casters and fury monchers are balanced and melee is under performing.

  13. #53
    Community Member the_one_dwarfforged's Avatar
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    some classes/builds just arent going to be good melee dps without blitz. or maybe they just arent going to be good dps for you. ive found that playing a style that works for you goes a long way towards improving your performance. increasing your double strike/attack speed/crit range might help a a lot. other than that id say if you value your dps that much but cant deal it without blitz, maybe you just arent building for it enough. increasing your double strike/attack speed/crit range might help a a lot. you might have to sacrifice survivability to do this, so then the question arises, which is really more important to you doing a lot of dps outside of blitz or staying alive more? it sounds like the answer for you is not dps, otherwise this wouldnt be an issue.
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  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inferno346 View Post
    Good thread; I had a similar gripe with caster divines (before the EA changes and enhancement pass, haven't played enough post-that to know if it's changed).

    One of the fundamental problems with DDO is that the answer to many questions is "I won't do that because it's too boring" rather than "I can't do that because it's too hard".
    Its a hobsons choice, which means there isnt a choice at all. This game should be about making hard choices between equal options. Having one tier 3 crafting option thats better than all other is bad and one tier 5 ed blitz better than all others is equally bad.

    Casters are limited by SP pool, and mortal fear is ml28, but blitzers are only limited by the amount of trash in a quest. When did DND become solo only?

    Devs are you listening?

  15. #55
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    OK. But I am afraid I cannot take your word for it.

    I am specifically looking for people willing to answer by at least posting a video of the achievement, and preferably at least some tips on the build they used.
    Where is The_Troll when we need him.

    Not only is the forum a small subset of people who play. But EE solo-ist are an even smaller subset. Then make it smaller by saying do it in an off-build. Then you make it smaller by saying you must video it.

    I've never video'd my self playing any game. I don't even have the software.

    Good luck kid, but you are making yourself look a lot more green with each insistence on video proof as opposed simply accepting good info from people.
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  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by redoubt View Post
    Where is The_Troll when we need him.

    Not only is the forum a small subset of people who play. But EE solo-ist are an even smaller subset. Then make it smaller by saying do it in an off-build. Then you make it smaller by saying you must video it.

    I've never video'd my self playing any game. I don't even have the software.

    Good luck kid, but you are making yourself look a lot more green with each insistence on video proof as opposed simply accepting good info from people.
    Oh cmon, thats extremely unfair. I come here very honestly stating that I have reached my own limit: I cannot find a way to deal enough damage with a melee to hack on the +5k HP mobs of end game without using blitz or mortal fear.

    Then if a a whole bunch of people come and claim they do, but never give me the "how" or prove that it is actually true, I just have to believe them? Without any proof beyond some obscure references to me not having what it takes?

    Calling everything but blitz / mortal fear an "off build" is quite illustrative, though.

    While I am open to be proved wrong (very much, I won't be a nay sayer if you show me a way) I suspect that if you don't want to invest a huge amount of time in every quest and/or perch them, it is actually not possible to do them "off buid". That is, outside the two very specific and narrow options of blitz / mortal fear.

    If (big "IF") that is true, in my opinion it means that melee in end game is completely broken.

    Blitzing is an extremely specific gameplay style. It is very group unfriendly and good luck keeping a blitz with several other people trying to do the same in your group. Furthermore, as people have pointed out, if you are going to blitz then probably you would be better off alone, since scaling will only work against you. While I understand that some people find it appealing, forcing "blitz" as the only "effective" melee option before mortal fear down our throats is a very weird design option for a game that boasts about supporting different "builds" and "playstyles".

    Mortal fear opens up the box for other build possibilities, but it is one single weapon property that can only be used at cap. Given that we all agree that current end game is precisely not being at cap but eTRing and TRing, it is of very limited use.

    Some people will say that I am just pointing out something that is obvious to everyone, but I think there is some value in stating very clearly in all its horror.

  17. #57
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    Before I quit I had a Drow 13rogue/4fvs/3monk (roguenmo). My rogue did work well with dual celestias in Shadowdancer, it would be more effective in LD with mortal fears without a doubt, but I wanted a change of pace.

    The raw DPS was not as high as it would have been whilst blitzing, nor was the aoe potential. But the sneak attack dice, shadowform, 5% vulnerability and 2min displace clickies (improved invisibility) meant that I was effective when soloing or in a group environment. The playstyle is completely different however, I couldn't simply group up half a dungeon and proceed to cleave, I just invised where needed or killed off smaller groups of mobs before numbers became a problem.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by fTdOmen View Post
    Before I quit I had a Drow 13rogue/4fvs/3monk (roguenmo). My rogue did work well with dual celestias in Shadowdancer, it would be more effective in LD with mortal fears without a doubt, but I wanted a change of pace.

    The raw DPS was not as high as it would have been whilst blitzing, nor was the aoe potential. But the sneak attack dice, shadowform, 5% vulnerability and 2min displace clickies (improved invisibility) meant that I was effective when soloing or in a group environment. The playstyle is completely different however, I couldn't simply group up half a dungeon and proceed to cleave, I just invised where needed or killed off smaller groups of mobs before numbers became a problem.
    Do you think that rogunmo would be able to beat my 4 quests "challenge"?

    I have seen rogues do very well in end game, with some outkilling vastly everyone else. But I have yet to see a rogue without the two (perhaps) only viable options beat content like the one I pointed out in my challenge.

  19. #59
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    Do you think that rogunmo would be able to beat my 4 quests "challenge"?

    I have seen rogues do very well in end game, with some outkilling vastly everyone else. But I have yet to see a rogue without the two (perhaps) only viable options beat content like the one I pointed out in my challenge.
    I had solod EDA and TOR on him @ 25, I don't have the proof you're after sorry, but I will say it was much more to do with my abilities as a player, than it was the effectiveness of my toon. (Sap was a big help)

    I'm not a big fan of the Shadowfell expansion, I lacked the motivation or patience to even bother trying to solo WGU on my monkcher let alone on my rogue. If all 4 quests are required to beat your challenge I think it could be done on a build similar to mine, but it would take more patience than I have.

  20. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    dungeon scaling affects mob hp which can mean more swings the more players in the group.

    dungeon scaling affects mob damage output which can affect how much damage you take thus requiring more healing and how fast you need to heal yourself affecting your dps. this can include mob spell damage.

    most dungeons (not raids) are scaled for 4 players. having less than 4 scales the dungeon down.

    difficulty settings also have an impact on mobs. now that OP specified EE, we can now consider 1 player that scales a dungeon down with max mob spawns and max mob damage while keeping in mind that with 4 or more players will increase those numbers.

    character level even has an impact on dungeon scaling. no clue how or why, but that's what wiki says.

    OP is basically looking for video footage evidence of melees that can solo EE specific quests while not blitzing and not using mortal fear and comparing his melees with others to see how in line they are.
    Yes, we all know how dungeon scaling works, thanks ever so much for sharing.

    It's still not relevant to the thread.

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