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  1. #21
    Community Member GreataxeUser's Avatar
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    It has too many forms of currency that become useless very fast. The Reign of Madness chain is a good example of this. I still get the stuff put into my Green bag life after life, but I have no use for the ingredients anymore as I have upgraded all my stuff. We need a way to turn all forms of currency into one or the other by exchanges or put collecting them towards something else.

    Edit: The random traps that are in some Gianthold quests should have been implemented in all content the day they thought of this. For some reason it only applied to a few quests in Gianthold and was never done again. This made this game fun and stopped the mindless zerging that kind of ruins the game for me. I will be in a party and the party leader gets us through 3 runs of the same quest in less than 20 minutes with around 40k xp under our belt, but no sense of real adventure.
    Last edited by GreataxeUser; 07-05-2014 at 12:24 PM. Reason: We need more randomness put into the dungeons

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    To be fair, while I was not a fan of the game mechanics themselves, I did enjoy running around in the foundry games. Some of them were downright amazing. And, I want to give credit to the players who took the time to really make them, and truth is, some of those Foundry Dungeons had solid and often funny story lines, professional level attention to detail, Quests that were both engaging and rewarding to have done.

    Say what you want about Neverwinter, but those players that put some serious effort into the foundry are due respect, not scorn. The main fault was how the game handled loot and exp for a foundry quest, and often some of the funniest and most professionals done quests did not give ample rewards, but that was a fault of PW, not the player.
    Maybe you happened upon some good ones - I didn't play Foundry quests that much since I was playing the most popular ones and they were bad so I figured that's as good as they got. And all I said was that the quests weren't close to DDO quality - not giving scorn, just stating my opinion. Doesn't put anyone down to disagree with someone who states their content is as good as a professional.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    We got 500 quests in DDO, but they're almost all the same.

    They are: 'go in, kill them all, kill boss, go back'.
    Unfortunately "kill things" is the basis for all MMOs I have played including those advertised as "story based" like LotRO, GW2 and The Secret World.

  4. #24

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    I haven't played any other MMO, so my personal experience is limited, however I have been playing DDO since close to its lanuch date I find the game far from boring. There are a large number of quests in the game that have a variety of different layouts, taps, mobs, and difficulty settings. The ability to do reincarnations allows the playerbase to explore multiple classes on the same character while at the same time making that character a little more powerful, and this isn't including the gear you can gather as you quest along. So, in my mind at least, DDO is far from boring...unless of course you just run the same high experience quests over and over and over again...

  5. #25
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chilldude View Post
    I'm not so sure I would say "patience". I'd say it's more like a personality disorder that allows a person to relentlessly grind XP in order to gain powerups that enable them to feel superior to others. DDO is the only MMO I've ever seen where people say things like, "You shouldn't be able to do that yet, you haven't ran it over and over again 50 thousand times like I have."

    Personally, I think it's a tragedy that long term grinding affords players so much power in DDO. I think experience affords enough power on its own, the gains should be primarily cosmetic.
    Most MMOs are far worse than DDO in that regard, making it mathematically impossible in a more literal sense to run higher tier content with mid tier gear. True progression games

    Patience is what is being played on the most here and nothing more. The power gamers might attain the best items first, but theres nothing making playing any content exclusive as there is in progression style games.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  6. #26

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    NWO:

    - Enter new area.
    - Follow lit path to guy.
    - Talk to him. Follow lit path to his objects. Come back.
    - Advance further in area and talk to new guy.
    - Hunt that guys objects using lit path. Return.
    - Go to small, easy solo dungeon. Complete.
    - Go further in area. Talk to new guy.
    - Hunt his objects. Return. Do 2nd simple solo quest.
    - FINALLY run party dungeon that offers some minor challenge. Complete.
    - Move to new area.

    That is how EVERY SINGLE area is set up. Every one.

    While the foundry is a nice option it is lacking.
    The foundry tools are very incomplete and can't create anything truly new.
    It's just a reshuffling of the same ingredients.

    Don't get me started about character options.

    IMO NWO is a horrible example of a well designed game.

    It sure does look good though. ;-)
    Last edited by phillymiket; 07-05-2014 at 01:55 PM.
    BONGO FURY - Ghallanda - Thingfish - Wizard, Diuni - Ninja, Gheale - Angel, Dullknife - Tank, Noodlefish - Gimp, Jaquaby - Treacherous and other gimps I won't cop to.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Most MMOs are far worse than DDO in that regard, making it mathematically impossible in a more literal sense to run higher tier content with mid tier gear. True progression games

    Patience is what is being played on the most here and nothing more. The power gamers might attain the best items first, but theres nothing making playing any content exclusive as there is in progression style games.
    I agree. I play EE quests in heroic gear (no raid gear and half is loot-gen) until I get Eveningstar Commendations gear. No raid or epic upgraded gear amongst my characters except greensteel. That would be literally impossible in some other MMOs. Heck, I would call LotRO the furthest from a progression MMO and even it had literal gear gating for a while lol.

  8. #28
    Community Member Gargalarg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    We got 500 quests in DDO, but they're almost all the same.

    They are: 'go in, kill them all, kill boss, go back'.
    Tbh though that is alot better then go collect 10 X or go kill 10 X of this, you or anyone is seriously wrong if they think DDO lacks depth in the quests they have.

  9. #29
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    Maybe you happened upon some good ones - I didn't play Foundry quests that much since I was playing the most popular ones and they were bad so I figured that's as good as they got. And all I said was that the quests weren't close to DDO quality - not giving scorn, just stating my opinion. Doesn't put anyone down to disagree with someone who states their content is as good as a professional.
    As irony would have it, I thought some of the foundry quests were better then the professionally made quests in Neverwinner.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chilldude View Post
    I'm not so sure I would say "patience". I'd say it's more like a personality disorder that allows a person to relentlessly grind XP in order to gain powerups that enable them to feel superior to others. DDO is the only MMO I've ever seen where people say things like, "You shouldn't be able to do that yet, you haven't ran it over and over again 50 thousand times like I have."

    Personally, I think it's a tragedy that long term grinding affords players so much power in DDO. I think experience affords enough power on its own, the gains should be primarily cosmetic.
    Personally, I think most greatly overestimate how much power most of the grind gives.

    While I have seen players display that attitude, I think most who do are more stating how they wish things were than how they actually are or are deluding themselves into believing things are how they think they should be.


    Personally, I have little problem with the concept of gaining small power ups over large time frames as a form of end game that the game actually offers. I'm just not a huge fan of the mechanics of, basically, having to delete one's character to gain them that goes with heroic TRing. Epic TRing is quite a bit better, but still involves taking a small step back in order to move forward that breaks the continuity of the character IMO.

  11. #31
    Community Member janave's Avatar
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    1. Cant - Login fails, Loading Screen DCs
    2. Lag
    3. Everything has been sold out (including some of the hardest to come by gear/character levels..)
    4. The new reincarnations
    5. Guilds functioning as stacking buffs and a teleporter. Most of this is also sold out.

    ...

    That sums it up for me.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    As irony would have it, I thought some of the foundry quests were better then the professionally made quests in Neverwinner.
    Well, "better" is most often an opinion based on personal criteria

  13. #33
    Community Member burningwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillymiket View Post
    NWO:

    - Enter new area.
    - Follow lit path to guy.
    - Talk to him. Follow lit path to his objects. Come back.
    - Advance further in area and talk to new guy.
    - Hunt that guys objects using lit path. Return.
    - Go to small, easy solo dungeon. Complete.
    - Go further in area. Talk to new guy.
    - Hunt his objects. Return. Do 2nd simple solo quest.
    - FINALLY run party dungeon that offers some minor challenge. Complete.
    - Move to new area.

    That is how EVERY SINGLE area is set up. Every one.

    While the foundry is a nice option it is lacking.
    The foundry tools are very incomplete and can't create anything truly new.
    It's just a reshuffling of the same ingredients.

    Don't get me started about character options.

    IMO NWO is a horrible example of a well designed game.

    It sure does look good though. ;-)
    very true, but did you realize that ddo is just the opposite?

    -character a decent character
    -play exciting first life
    -tr, repeating everything listed above
    -repeating everything you have done X times(x = infinity) until bored to death..
    -quit the game..

    p.s. true nwn is simple and not very exciting, but we do get to see new places more often. and there is pvp, player made quest, and it is more action base thus more fun while grinding...

  14. #34
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    The other day I was commenting on how I disliked the Lords of Dust chain, just to find out that there are few quests in the game that I actually enjoy running. For me, it has always been about character crafting.

    As someone said here, the vast majority of the quests are pick the quest, run in, kill everything (boss at the end of the dungeons), turn the quest in. What I miss is strategy and randomization. Suppose there were rooms with enemies, but some rooms had so many enemies that you wouldn't be able to kill them, those rooms being random. Scouting would make sense, instead of running in with the certainty that you will just pawn everything. The solution for most dungeons is: kill everything, kite what you cannot kill, know the obscure mechanics.

    Whenever there is a puzzle or something more elaborate, it is often annoying and with little replay value. Think of the beam puzzles introduced in U21. There is nothing fun with them after a couple of times and they don't even allow you to fry your enemies. After years of constant pressure to make the game more solo friendly, we have ended up with quests that must not require the full spectrum of abilities to be completed. So the designers work with even fewer variables. (I do think it is obvious there has been a simplification of the quests with time and a strong emphasis on making them solo friendly. Just look at the Estar chains).

    For me, DDO has failed to deliver the true dungeon crawling experience. Static content and the certainty that with enough gear you can just pawn every single room in any dungeon has killed the DnD experience. Right now, DDO is just a drag racing simulator for characters.

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by burningwind View Post
    very true, but did you realize that ddo is just the opposite?

    -character a decent character
    -play exciting first life
    -tr, repeating everything listed above
    -repeating everything you have done X times(x = infinity) until bored to death..
    -quit the game..

    p.s. true nwn is simple and not very exciting, but we do get to see new places more often. and there is pvp, player made quest, and it is more action base thus more fun while grinding...
    At least you can TR in DDO

    NWO let's you level to cap in a week or even a weekend.

    Then all you have is the same Epic versions of dungeons you already ran and grinding gear.

    So that's what two dozen things to run?

    PvP in NWO, though very limited, is fun and challenging.

    With that we can agree. :-)
    BONGO FURY - Ghallanda - Thingfish - Wizard, Diuni - Ninja, Gheale - Angel, Dullknife - Tank, Noodlefish - Gimp, Jaquaby - Treacherous and other gimps I won't cop to.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreataxeUser View Post
    Edit: The random traps that are in some Gianthold quests should have been implemented in all content the day they thought of this. For some reason it only applied to a few quests in Gianthold and was never done again. This made this game fun and stopped the mindless zerging that kind of ruins the game for me. I will be in a party and the party leader gets us through 3 runs of the same quest in less than 20 minutes with around 40k xp under our belt, but no sense of real adventure.
    Good point. Agreed.
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  17. #37
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    Well, "better" is most often an opinion based on personal criteria
    Fair enough.

  18. #38
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    As irony would have it, I thought some of the foundry quests were better then the professionally made quests in Neverwinner.
    The Foundry and crafting are about what that game has going for it. The rest is horribly templated out cookie cutter characters and constant PvP complains that everything but my favored class needs a nerf.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  19. #39
    Community Member GreataxeUser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    The Foundry and crafting are about what that game has going for it. The rest is horribly templated out cookie cutter characters and constant PvP complains that everything but my favored class needs a nerf.
    Why is this quote a riddle Chai? Why do you think you can answer threads so vaguely and we are just supposed to accept it as gospel Chai? You answer with ridiculously long explanations like you just put a bunch of long words into a sentence and called it a day and hope the masses will not question you because it is so confusing . You normally make no sense imo.

  20. #40

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    much gear is outdated in quest, you simply run the quests for xp and favor and the occasional tome (in chest/quest reward). What a pity tomes moved (almost exclusive) from quest to store with motu update. The game would actually be more fun, if turbine was not so greedy and the game was less p2w (like pre motu). The combination of both introducing powerful p2w to store and being unable to prevent long-term exploiting made the game less fun. And here we are, where do we go from here? Lets see.


    Simply extrapolate the curves to next few months/years.
    Last edited by morkahn82; 07-07-2014 at 02:27 AM.
    ~~~ ~ ~~~ turning each thread into a p2w discussion since 2012 ~~~ ~ ~~~

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