Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 117

Thread: Kill count.

  1. #1
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,913

    Default Kill count.

    Hi guys, so.. I was doing some vale quests yesterday and it has come to my attention that, some people seem to really care about "kill counts".. I have seen players call another player (who is new) "a noob" and there is sometimes argument between elistists, who killed how many etc..

    I really like this system, well.. Because I'm doing really good and almost always out kill everybody.
    And that simply makes me feel good, but I felt little bit sorry about other people.

    I mean, do we really need to know who killed how many mobs? Wouldn't it be a good idea to just remove that and make it like wild slayers. Along with death penalty, because I think there is so much pressure on players... Because of someone we have to lose the experience? I think this is wrong, why not let player him/herself lose that extra 10% and not all of us.
    Just an idea guys... Game suppose to be fun after all.

  2. #2
    Community Member Seamonkeysix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    1,203

    Default

    It's been a question/debate for years...kill count or no kill count. I believe kill count isn't a good way to measure your contributions to a party. There isn't a heal count. There isn't a crowd control count. There isn't a buff count. So, kill count really shouldn't factor into the opinion of whether or not somebody is contributing to party success.

    That being said, I don't like the idea of eliminating kill count. It gives you an idea of where you are at for conquest, first of all. Also, it can help you flesh out your personal effectiveness, if you are trying to be a top killer in a party. It shouldn't be an elitist tool to measure your um...stuff. Rather, it's a mechanic that allows you to track quest progress and is a way to check how you are doing with personal kills. Granted, it just shows who dealt killing blow, but if you are only killing 3 mobs out of 100, and you are trying to be a top DPS/kill toon, you might want to look at your build/gear.
    “No Battle Plan Survives Contact With the Enemy”

  3. #3
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    10,778

    Default

    People who care about last hit kills are the ones that care about kill count. It serves no purpose for individuals and should be removed. It assumes PVP too much. It wrongfully implies a characters strength in the group vs other characters. I just ignore and sometimes lol when people in my group rave about their kills.
    Gary Gygax quotes

    The essence of a role-playing game is that it is a group, cooperative experience.

    There is no winning or losing, but rather the value is in the experience of imagining yourself as a character in whatever genre you are involved in, whether its a fantasy game, the Wild West, secret agents or whatever else. You get to sort of vicariously experience those things.

    Role-playing isn't storytelling. If the dungeon master is directing it, its not a game.

    When AI approximates Machine Intelligence, than many online and computer run RPGs will move toward actual RPG activity. Nonetheless, that will not replace the experience of "being there" anymore than seeing a theatrical motion picture can replace the stage play.

    The secret we should never let the game masters know is that they don't need any rules.

  4. #4
    Community Member Talonaise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    431

    Default


    Wait.....are you trying to say kill count does not equal Dps?? Blasphemy!

    in wow there were actual mods that kept track of all sorts of stuff such as Dps, hips, by fight and quest. Great but led to only one class with x gear is right ...so I prefer the system here.
    Kitraine ~ Degenerate Matter
    Completionist / Epic Completionist - 15 Druid / 4 Favored Soul / 1 Sorcerer
    Triple past lives Sorcerer/Wizard/Cleric/Favored Soul/Druid/Morninglord

    Other Main Capped Characters
    Krestal Sorcerer Azlix Cleric Talonaise Rogue Assassin

  5. #5
    Community Member Talonaise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    431

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    People who care about last hit kills are the ones that care about kill count. It serves no purpose for individuals and should be removed. It assumes PVP too much. It wrongfully implies a characters strength in the group vs other characters. I just ignore and sometimes lol when people in my group rave about their kills.
    Just remember with the Dps some toons are generating first and last hit are one and the same.
    Kitraine ~ Degenerate Matter
    Completionist / Epic Completionist - 15 Druid / 4 Favored Soul / 1 Sorcerer
    Triple past lives Sorcerer/Wizard/Cleric/Favored Soul/Druid/Morninglord

    Other Main Capped Characters
    Krestal Sorcerer Azlix Cleric Talonaise Rogue Assassin

  6. #6
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    2,957

    Default

    I look at it this way: if you are scrutinizing kill counts of your group, maybe you should do something else for entertainment.

    Depending on the toon I’m on (and the level), I’m either at the back of the pack, or at the fore. And if I’m the guy on top, it’s usually one of those runs where you are with your buddies just trying to kill everything you see before they do – like a running joke. In some group in the past (again, with friends) there was rush to make sure that I wasn’t the top guy with the kills. It’s all good fun, given the context.

    Or, like now, I’ve got a wizzy who is about mid-levels, and just getting FoD. I’m not high in the kill counts as I have to conserve my blue bar. But when I hit stuff, I’m usually hitting 3 or 4 mobs at a time, and knocking down their HP by half. I won’t get the outright kills, but I am contributing.

    And there are some people who just like to be “support staff” – dedicated healers, secondary DPS, and so on. I’ve got no problem if I’m the heavy hitter in the group, and someone is willing to back me up so that I can continue to do what I do best.

    And then there are just some toons – like my rogue – where you feel like you’re not doing much, up until you look at your number of kills. Its effortless, and you don’t have to worry much.

    But then you get in one of those groups where there’s just that one guy who has to make killing everything the top priority. The find the guy at the bottom of that list and whine and cry about people “not pulling their weight.” Usually, these people are never happy no matter what, but they do make running stuff rather un-fun.

    Or the high-strung zergers who are all over you for stopping to kill stuff. They are just as bad.

    If the end-all-be-all of this game ends up being kill counts, its days are numbered. If that were the case, there would be little differentiation between it and something like Space Invaders. And the latter I don’t need to do online.

  7. #7
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    10,778

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Talonaise View Post
    Just remember with the Dps some toons are generating first and last hit are one and the same.
    That would depend. In low level heroics it can be first hit is also last hit. In EE, not the case.
    Gary Gygax quotes

    The essence of a role-playing game is that it is a group, cooperative experience.

    There is no winning or losing, but rather the value is in the experience of imagining yourself as a character in whatever genre you are involved in, whether its a fantasy game, the Wild West, secret agents or whatever else. You get to sort of vicariously experience those things.

    Role-playing isn't storytelling. If the dungeon master is directing it, its not a game.

    When AI approximates Machine Intelligence, than many online and computer run RPGs will move toward actual RPG activity. Nonetheless, that will not replace the experience of "being there" anymore than seeing a theatrical motion picture can replace the stage play.

    The secret we should never let the game masters know is that they don't need any rules.

  8. #8
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Thelanis
    Posts
    4,901

    Default

    Update it.
    Make kill count when you do 50% or more dmg to the mob.

  9. #9
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Thelanis
    Posts
    4,901

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    That would depend. In low level heroics it can be first hit is also last hit. In EE, not the case.
    Well I would beg to differ.

  10. #10
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Bell's Brewery, MI.
    Posts
    10,991

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    People who care about last hit kills are the ones that care about kill count. It serves no purpose for individuals and should be removed. It assumes PVP too much. It wrongfully implies a characters strength in the group vs other characters. I just ignore and sometimes lol when people in my group rave about their kills.
    Truth.

    Eliminate kill count associated with each character and put in a party kill count.

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  11. #11
    Community Member Blackheartox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Left from Underdark
    Posts
    3,132

    Default

    In epics, first one to get 10 stacks of blitz will dominate the quest.
    In heroics i wouldnt say kill count really shows who is the biggest contributer.
    But lets be honest, a fsol bb-ing and a barb runing after it and last hiting mobs isnt really the biggest contributer

    Kills in heroics dont show who dominates, in epics id say the do show.
    Cant realy last hit kill steal all those 10 + k hp mobs, while it is possible in heroic content

  12. #12

    Default

    I find kill count very helpful, but it's like any metric, you have to know how to read it, and compare like to like. I.E. If I am running high level heroic content and the Pale Master is being out killed by the cleric who is also keeping everyone healed, it means it is a really great cleric, or a mediocre wizard. For example if one of the people in the group keep dieing, are they just not strong enough for the quest (keeps dieing, no kills) or are they too aggressive (top kill count, but lots of deaths because they keep running ahead). And like someone mentioned it can be useful as a barometer to see how you are doing with your toon.

  13. #13
    Community Member Cetus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    4,880

    Default

    I think kill count = dps

    But, that's just me

    =D
    Cetus Heroic Lives: #32/32 | Epic Completionist: #20/24 | Iconic Lives: #6/6
    Cetusz - Pure Sorcerer: Heroic Lives: #24/24 | Epic Lives: #6/12 | Iconic Lives: #1/3
    YouTube Channel HERE
    Argonnessen's DEGENERATE MATTER

  14. #14
    Community Member Nightmanis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    1,051

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    Update it.
    Make kill count when you do 50% or more dmg to the mob.
    I kind of like this idea. Maybe not just a clear cut 50%, but whomever did the highest % of damage.

    That being said, I can understand the whole idea of low kills on the kill count do somewhat show a characters effectiveness in a group situation, depending on character.

    If a character is designed for DPS (and is obviously designed with that in mind) and are contributing almost nothing, either they themselves are contributing nothing or their character isn't very good.

    Example: I was grouping with what was assumed some kind of moncher build, and what could only be described as a pure ranger Horc with a greataxe. And only a greataxe.

    Doing EN Cabal (because I needed the xp and why not it's going to be super quick). I'm on my beloved rogue stun build, horrendously undergeared because I hadn't really farmed anything out for her just yet. They demanded we needed a healer. Again, this is EN Cabal. And one of them is a pure ranger. I state this, and am told to shut my f*ckin mouth I don't know sh*t about this game.

    Oh. Well then, couple elitist neanderthals then. I'm curious as to how effective they really are.

    Long story short, quest summary: Me 70 kills, 0 deaths. Them combined 10 kills, 10 deaths. And they had a healer.
    Nightmanis De'Corenai 20 Rogue Mechanic or Assassin. Depending on how I feel during the etr.
    Sereine De'Corenai Paladin. Because ETR.

    Guild of Won, Officer
    Fors Fortis, Officer

    Hate to twist your mind, but God ain't on your side

  15. #15
    Community Member kanordog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    381

    Default

    I mostly play melee toons, I usually have a good kill count in a group.
    But then it is really easy to
    - do good dps on a paralyzed monster or
    - great cleave a dancing mob or even
    - give a final blow to enemies standing in a firewall.

    ps.: My dps is low while I am drinking 5 csw potions in a row
    Last edited by kanordog; 06-30-2014 at 06:42 PM.

  16. #16
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    2,816

    Default

    There isn't a heal count.
    You should be healing yourself, so it's irrelevant.
    There isn't a crowd control count.
    There is, it is the kill count.
    There isn't a buff count.
    ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Seamonkeysix View Post
    It's been a question/debate for years...kill count or no kill count. I believe kill count isn't a good way to measure your contributions to a party.
    Kill count is the most important number in a group. The only modification should be that the boss kill should count as ~10-20 kills, depending on the boss. Also, XP in a party should be divvied up by kill count, or at least affected by it. This will allow "healers" and such to realize that they aren't contributing.

  17. #17
    Community Member Nightmanis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    1,051

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    You should be healing yourself, so it's irrelevant. There is, it is the kill count. ?
    Kill count is the most important number in a group. The only modification should be that the boss kill should count as ~10-20 kills, depending on the boss. Also, XP in a party should be divvied up by kill count, or at least affected by it. This will allow "healers" and such to realize that they aren't contributing.
    Nightmanis De'Corenai 20 Rogue Mechanic or Assassin. Depending on how I feel during the etr.
    Sereine De'Corenai Paladin. Because ETR.

    Guild of Won, Officer
    Fors Fortis, Officer

    Hate to twist your mind, but God ain't on your side

  18. #18
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    487

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamonkeysix View Post
    It's been a question/debate for years...kill count or no kill count. I believe kill count isn't a good way to measure your contributions to a party. There isn't a heal count. There isn't a crowd control count. There isn't a buff count. So, kill count really shouldn't factor into the opinion of whether or not somebody is contributing to party success.
    I'd rather have the addition of these other counts than elimination of kill count. As people have noted, kill count is not the best way of assessing someone's contribution to a party. I agree bragging (except in a playful joking kind of way) about kill count is foolish. I will even go so far as to say, those who use kill count to harass folks typically reveal more about their own psychology and character than kill count reveals about the performance of the folks being harassed. Nevertheless, kill count does provide players with evidence of how they are performing. For instance, last night I used kill count to help me learn about my pale master's performance. I ran through the Storm Horns with a party of melees out killing them with instakills in every quest. My kill count was typically in the 70's theirs in the the 20's. This is good evidence to me that my dc's are around where I want them to be. What I want my pale master to be able to do is clear out trash so other people can save resources and beat down red names. Later that evening I found myself in a party with someone I know to be a very skilled instakiller. Again kill count was very helpful. It helped me to see that this person was much faster at getting his instakills off than I was. I got most of my spells off on targets he killed just before me. The kill count helped me established that he was getting the kills, not me, and, moreover, I was wasting sp on targets he was getting right before me. This is all helpful information I can use to adjust/fix my play style, and it is information that would be harder to reliably gather without kill count. Put briefly, kill count is helpful to those who know how to interpret it. However, like anything whose usefulness depends on the interpreter, it can just as well be employed to ignoble and stupid ends.
    Last edited by MonadRebelion; 06-30-2014 at 07:08 PM.
    Wizenmann (29th life Completionist Cleric), Diotimae (13th life Tank), Malwida (7th life Rogue Mechanic), Iraenilee (4th life Sorc), Garainth (3rd life Bard), Stirner (3rd life Paladin), and a grip of others. Sole member of Solipsists United on Ghallanda.

  19. #19
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    GMT + 2
    Posts
    1,983

    Default

    Kill count has always been debatable.
    I think if one person consistently gets double of second highest or even more than the rest combined, then they are doing better.

    Threat meters, dps/total dmg inflicted meters, outgoing healing meters like in other games would be better if ddo supported community created addons.
    That's a double edged sword but it sure would help with " you are not healing you piker, why do you have still half your spell points" or "you are stealing my kills", " I am tanking this you nubs " situations.
    Such things helps you improve.

    But that's probably for more raid oriented games / games with enrage timers and dps checks.
    Ghallanda

  20. #20
    2016 DDO Players Council Stoner81's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    England
    Posts
    1,820

    Default

    I never really think about kill count I'm busy killing stuff, enjoying the game, playing with friends and generally having a laugh than stressing over who killed the most.

    Stoner81.

Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload