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  1. #1
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    Default The easy way to end Dupapalooza for once and all.

    Alot of people around here I get the feeling think I dont want to see DDO get better, grow into the promised online D&D game so many of us dream it was.

    I do care about it though and want to see it heal and grow healthy and strong.

    Currently I feel there are 2 things that need to change they are connected though it may not seem that way.

    The first is its time to do away with ALL forms of collectables and materials and ingredients. Every single system is an abandoned one and really having them all in the game creats far too much clutter both in items and in material for new comers to figure out what to do with it. Instead use the system that more or less has proven reliable, quest completions to create a completion point system where completing say every quest in an arc will allow you to talk to the quest giver NPC and receive one named item from the arc. For rarer items like in the case of upgrades or truly valuable items like the ESOS perhaps require more runs, or even use this as a chance to make all those stats on a dungeon score card matter. Like require flawless runs with no deaths, kill all monsters, break all breakables etc to really make use of that aspect of the game beyond kill count.

    Now with the above we have both done away with tons of clutter and added a new reason to the importance of completing content. But there needs to be give as well as take. So I also suggest with this change to help combat the oft complained about issues of DCs causing party wipes and wasting tons of play time, to change XP rewarding to kills being where the majority of XP comes from and content only rewarding marginal amounts. With the lions share of kill XP coming from the kill of the quest boss itself.

    I feel that with these changes we create a real desire to still complete content, and lots of it by needing to play through entire arcs rather then farming a specific quest in an arc, while combating the frustration especially keenly felt by new players when a lag spike or dc can cause especially for the oft times soloing slow going new comer trying to get a feel for the game.

    I also dont see these changes really requiring huge amounts of man power, since systems to track things like raid completions and sagas clearly currently exists in the game, as does the ability to reward XP based on kills when one considers slayer zones. I think that such changes would be worthwhile efforts on the part of the devs, and even be changes that might attract back lost players to check them out in curiosity.

  2. #2
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rixaen View Post
    Alot of people around here I get the feeling think I dont want to see DDO get better, grow into the promised online D&D game so many of us dream it was.

    I do care about it though and want to see it heal and grow healthy and strong.

    Currently I feel there are 2 things that need to change they are connected though it may not seem that way.

    The first is its time to do away with ALL forms of collectables and materials and ingredients. Every single system is an abandoned one and really having them all in the game creats far too much clutter both in items and in material for new comers to figure out what to do with it. Instead use the system that more or less has proven reliable, quest completions to create a completion point system where completing say every quest in an arc will allow you to talk to the quest giver NPC and receive one named item from the arc. For rarer items like in the case of upgrades or truly valuable items like the ESOS perhaps require more runs, or even use this as a chance to make all those stats on a dungeon score card matter. Like require flawless runs with no deaths, kill all monsters, break all breakables etc to really make use of that aspect of the game beyond kill count.

    Now with the above we have both done away with tons of clutter and added a new reason to the importance of completing content. But there needs to be give as well as take. So I also suggest with this change to help combat the oft complained about issues of DCs causing party wipes and wasting tons of play time, to change XP rewarding to kills being where the majority of XP comes from and content only rewarding marginal amounts. With the lions share of kill XP coming from the kill of the quest boss itself.

    I feel that with these changes we create a real desire to still complete content, and lots of it by needing to play through entire arcs rather then farming a specific quest in an arc, while combating the frustration especially keenly felt by new players when a lag spike or dc can cause especially for the oft times soloing slow going new comer trying to get a feel for the game.

    I also dont see these changes really requiring huge amounts of man power, since systems to track things like raid completions and sagas clearly currently exists in the game, as does the ability to reward XP based on kills when one considers slayer zones. I think that such changes would be worthwhile efforts on the part of the devs, and even be changes that might attract back lost players to check them out in curiosity.
    I like the first idea very much, especially the idea bout increasing rewards such as upgrades coming from score card challenges. The crafting and collectable system is just broken as is. Cannith crafting was the epitome of the systematic failure, with the click grind that it represented.

    I also feel that rewards should be tied to challenge, but there should be multiple different paths of challenge that suits each type of player. Most importantly solo vs. group play. Not everyone enjoys being a cog in a raid and not everyone enjoys playing by themselves. Both players should have avenues to gain top end loot.

  3. #3
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Or how about do it the right way?
    Fix the bloody bugs.

  4. #4
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    While we're at it, let's just make only completed green steels with randomly-placed effects drop.

    Also, while we are doing that, let's all go play World of Warcraft! There, we will enjoy no multi-classing, no build-customization, and specific item-sets tailored to our cookie-cutter characters., each one as unique as a Japanese-made sprocket

    These are all terrible ideas. The crafting systems, no matter how bad they are, are a vital part of the customization and make DDO so special. Your proposals are to essential transform the game into a cheap, DnD-themed WoW Clone. There are plenty of WoWCs out there, take your pick and stop trying to mess up our game.

  5. #5
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rixaen View Post
    Alot of people around here I get the feeling think I dont want to see DDO get better, grow into the promised online D&D game so many of us dream it was.

    I do care about it though and want to see it heal and grow healthy and strong.

    Currently I feel there are 2 things that need to change they are connected though it may not seem that way.

    The first is its time to do away with ALL forms of collectables and materials and ingredients. Every single system is an abandoned one and really having them all in the game creats far too much clutter both in items and in material for new comers to figure out what to do with it. Instead use the system that more or less has proven reliable, quest completions to create a completion point system where completing say every quest in an arc will allow you to talk to the quest giver NPC and receive one named item from the arc. For rarer items like in the case of upgrades or truly valuable items like the ESOS perhaps require more runs, or even use this as a chance to make all those stats on a dungeon score card matter. Like require flawless runs with no deaths, kill all monsters, break all breakables etc to really make use of that aspect of the game beyond kill count.

    Now with the above we have both done away with tons of clutter and added a new reason to the importance of completing content. But there needs to be give as well as take. So I also suggest with this change to help combat the oft complained about issues of DCs causing party wipes and wasting tons of play time, to change XP rewarding to kills being where the majority of XP comes from and content only rewarding marginal amounts. With the lions share of kill XP coming from the kill of the quest boss itself.

    I feel that with these changes we create a real desire to still complete content, and lots of it by needing to play through entire arcs rather then farming a specific quest in an arc, while combating the frustration especially keenly felt by new players when a lag spike or dc can cause especially for the oft times soloing slow going new comer trying to get a feel for the game.

    I also dont see these changes really requiring huge amounts of man power, since systems to track things like raid completions and sagas clearly currently exists in the game, as does the ability to reward XP based on kills when one considers slayer zones. I think that such changes would be worthwhile efforts on the part of the devs, and even be changes that might attract back lost players to check them out in curiosity.

    Dear Citizen of Gotham,

    You are essentially asking them to re-write the game. That is a major development task that would undoubtedly take a couple of years to complete. That would diverting a good portion of their resources away from bug fixes and adding new content to create a brand new system...with brand new bugs and issues.

    Not going to happen. Especially when they have to track down people who chose to dupe items, and ruin the game experience for some.

    Hence, it ain't gonna happen.

    Kind Regards,



    The Batman.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    Dear Citizen of Gotham,

    You are essentially asking them to re-write the game. That is a major development task that would undoubtedly take a couple of years to complete. That would diverting a good portion of their resources away from bug fixes and adding new content to create a brand new system...with brand new bugs and issues.

    Not going to happen. Especially when they have to track down people who chose to dupe items, and ruin the game experience for some.

    Hence, it ain't gonna happen.

    Kind Regards,



    The Batman.
    Also, what ^he^ said.

  7. #7
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    I agree there is too many crafting ingredients in the game and that too many crafting systems become abandoned, but there are lots of people who enjoy crafting and customizing their gear or whatnot. the solution proposed is going too far over the deep end instead of actually fixing the problem, not to mention who knows how long and complicated of a process it would be to just delete ingredients since they would be useless. this would also be a negative impact on Turbine financially if you figure in all the TP/$ spent on going to the DDO store for dopants, crafting xp, crafting materials, raid timer bypass, bags and probably a bunch of other things. crafting ingredients drop from various parts of the game and with this proposed new cookie cutter gear, it would be easier to pick and choose which content you want to run or buy.

    the solution is to just fix the problems, update crafting to be more meaningful and useful, make old ingredients useful for some crafting system and dont overcomplicate the system.

    im assuming OP means earning the xp at the end of the quest and how much xp you earn depends on how many monsters were killed in the quest? we already have that. its called Conquest.
    #MakeDDOGreatAgain

    You are the one choosing not to play alts.

    Casual player now investing way less than I used to into the game, playing 1-3 months at a time and still want nothing to do with Reaper. #improvepuggrouping#alldifficultiesmatter

  8. #8
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    Or how about do it the right way?
    Fix the bloody bugs.
    This!

    The only real and lasting fix is making the game stable. Anything else they do will be built off a broken and buggy platform and thus prone to be exploited.

  9. #9
    Hero JOTMON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    Or how about do it the right way?
    Fix the bloody bugs.
    In Lamannia when they were first reported even...
    Jotmon -
    Guild: Degenerate Matter - 200
    Argo-Jotmon(HC 28/42,EC 26/36,IC 17/15,RC 14/30), Jotlock(HC 38/42,EC 36/36,IC 15/15, RC 0/30)..
    and several once viable raiding alts dumped into the packmule stables..

    Update 24: Champions... "whew, it's ok, it's only a red name" .. sad day when trash spawn Champions and their one-shot ignore fort attacks instill more party fear than the Red named bosses.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Too bad I 'purchased' maximum character slots for my account, SSG has now chosen to cater the giveaway perks to benefit multiple freebie accounts instead of the paying customers.

  10. #10
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    Or how about do it the right way?
    Fix the bloody bugs.
    This. Very much this.

    Even if and when they fix them, there will be that subset that are actively looking to stick it to the man.

    They will need to be dealt with as well - eventually.




    The game is in a sorry state right now and only Turbine can turn it around.
    Last edited by Cordovan; 06-27-2014 at 02:24 PM. Reason: community guidelines.

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    I agree there is too many crafting ingredients in the game and that too many crafting systems become abandoned, but there are lots of people who enjoy crafting and customizing their gear or whatnot. the solution proposed is going too far over the deep end instead of actually fixing the problem, not to mention who knows how long and complicated of a process it would be to just delete ingredients since they would be useless. this would also be a negative impact on Turbine financially if you figure in all the TP/$ spent on going to the DDO store for dopants, crafting xp, crafting materials, raid timer bypass, bags and probably a bunch of other things. crafting ingredients drop from various parts of the game and with this proposed new cookie cutter gear, it would be easier to pick and choose which content you want to run or buy.

    the solution is to just fix the problems, update crafting to be more meaningful and useful, make old ingredients useful for some crafting system and dont overcomplicate the system.

    im assuming OP means earning the xp at the end of the quest and how much xp you earn depends on how many monsters were killed in the quest? we already have that. its called Conquest.

    I bet Turbines fix is introduce a new type of comm and new ingredients.

  12. #12
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    In Lamannia when they were first reported even...
    Agreed!

    One issue there, there are more going to Llama to find new exploits and see if old ones are fixed then those that are reporting the new ones.

    I would love to see the DEVs/QA on Llama in non-update times with a reward in place for showing them exploits.

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  13. #13
    2015 DDO Players Council B0ltdrag0n's Avatar
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    Obviously the best thing to do after a topix is closed is to start a new one in the same subject and for the same small vocal group to rehash the same argument 30 more times
    Officer of Renowned

  14. #14
    Community Member Xioden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    Or how about do it the right way?
    Fix the bloody bugs.
    +1 for fixing the bloody bugs.

    Of the crafting systems in the game, I can really only say that two are dead content. Lord of Blades and Master Artificer are really never run, and it's an absolute pain the way the ingredients need to be collected. The gear really isn't much of an upgrade to some other easily obtainable items, and it isn't really that hard to replace it after a level or two. The second "dead" crafting is Dragontouched armors from Reaver's Refuge, it's just outclassed in most cases, and even if it's not, it's really just not run and the randomness in rune drops makes it a pain. The red fens dampened effect crafting is sort of a runner-up. The content is run, there's just not really anything that stands out as must-have.

    Everything else either has very nice gear for the level it's at, is great for TRing, and in some cases is stuff that still gets used up through and in some cases at level 28.

  15. #15
    Community Member DrNuegebauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallout_Zero View Post
    I bet Turbines fix is introduce a new type of comm and new ingredients.
    AND a new type of reincarnation.

    Oh, they would make a 'free' version of said TR available, but it would require endless hours of gameplay. So the only way to achieve said TR would be to buy from the store.
    Then they would make the game all about that type of TR, offering nothing else to do.
    Then they'd sit back rubbing their hands and watching the server numbers dwindle (yet again).
    Then someone would figure out how to dupe.

    Rinse, repeat process.

  16. #16
    Community Member hunzi2010's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xioden View Post
    +1 for fixing the bloody bugs.

    Of the crafting systems in the game, I can really only say that two are dead content. Lord of Blades and Master Artificer are really never run, and it's an absolute pain the way the ingredients need to be collected. The gear really isn't much of an upgrade to some other easily obtainable items, and it isn't really that hard to replace it after a level or two. The second "dead" crafting is Dragontouched armors from Reaver's Refuge, it's just outclassed in most cases, and even if it's not, it's really just not run and the randomness in rune drops makes it a pain. The red fens dampened effect crafting is sort of a runner-up. The content is run, there's just not really anything that stands out as must-have.

    Everything else either has very nice gear for the level it's at, is great for TRing, and in some cases is stuff that still gets used up through and in some cases at level 28.
    Um... I run these weekly to upgrade my items. and I always see heaps of people posting LOB or MA raids. even though a few have bugged out to the end when we complete.
    this raid creates your alchemical weapon... have you actually had a good look at the alchemical weapons? there is some very nice items you can craft on here.
    im still way off on my greatsword but have a good read, there are alot of people that still run this.
    check the link below.
    http://ddowiki.com/page/Alchemical_Crafting

  17. #17
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunzi2010 View Post
    Um... I run these weekly to upgrade my items. and I always see heaps of people posting LOB or MA raids. even though a few have bugged out to the end when we complete.
    this raid creates your alchemical weapon... have you actually had a good look at the alchemical weapons? there is some very nice items you can craft on here.
    im still way off on my greatsword but have a good read, there are alot of people that still run this.
    check the link below.
    http://ddowiki.com/page/Alchemical_Crafting
    I see LOB posted maybe once every few days. I've seen 1 MA in the last few months. Maybe they are run more in private channels or maybe another server has more of a following than mine does.
    #MakeDDOGreatAgain

    You are the one choosing not to play alts.

    Casual player now investing way less than I used to into the game, playing 1-3 months at a time and still want nothing to do with Reaper. #improvepuggrouping#alldifficultiesmatter

  18. #18
    Community Member Xioden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunzi2010 View Post
    Um... I run these weekly to upgrade my items. and I always see heaps of people posting LOB or MA raids. even though a few have bugged out to the end when we complete.
    this raid creates your alchemical weapon... have you actually had a good look at the alchemical weapons? there is some very nice items you can craft on here.
    im still way off on my greatsword but have a good read, there are alot of people that still run this.
    check the link below.
    http://ddowiki.com/page/Alchemical_Crafting
    The fact that it's being run once a week by one person doesn't make it any less dead of a crafting system. I'm sure there is someone out there who wants some specific niche item. That doesn't make Reaver's Refuge crafting any less of a dead system.

    I honestly think I see more CiTW being run than LoB or MA on Khyber, and the last two LoB or MA I saw ended up either disbanding, or going in with about half a raid. So to reiterate; LoB and MA are really never run, and it's an absolute pain the way the ingredients need to be collected. The gear really isn't much of an upgrade to some other easily obtainable items, and it isn't really that hard to replace it after a level or two.

    For casters, random-gen is as good as, if not better than alchemical stuff depending on what, if any spellcasting implement bonus they get at level 18. The efficient meta-magic might be handy if you're looking for a specific effect other than maximize, (ornamented dagger has it, plus the lesser maximize clicky). The only thing not available until level 23 otherwise is the arcane augmentation for the +2 caster levels. Spell focus feats have better versions available at lower levels, and the Tier 2 clicky effects can be obtained by a potion if someone is doing a raid or something and really wants that extra +20.

    For melee, handwraps are an obvious exception as they aren't available as green steel. For everything else, Greensteel is better than T0-T2 greensteel. T3 fire/air/x, it's something like 3 extra damage per swing from the alchemical compared to greensteel lit 2. Once you add normal swing damage to that... 83 damage per swing instead of 80 for a couple levels probably isn't going to be worth the inventory or bank slot for most people.

  19. #19
    The Hatchery Paleus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B0ltdrag0n View Post
    Obviously the best thing to do after a topix is closed is to start a new one in the same subject and for the same small vocal group to rehash the same argument 30 more times
    What else would you expect from a bunch of people that grind the same quest repeatedly. Repetition is a way of life.
    Kobold never forgive....kobold remember waterworks.

    Quote Originally Posted by KookieKobold View Post
    i'll be putting a bug into our system.

  20. #20
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    While I well know that some crafting systems like Green steel are beloved by the TRing population to abuse and exploit content not ever designed to have such powerful tools used in them, it does not change that they are something that just shouldnt be, and removing it completely and all GS items would do wonders to remove the gap of power between non raiders and raiders at the lvl 12+ range. Not to mention that far too many of the oldest vets still sit on complete sets of cleansed GS gear with lvl 8 min legacy items grandfathered and forever scars of one of the earliest and worst exploits that violated DDOs purity.

    Simply put there should be no items, no content, nor system that can exist in the game that lets huge power gaps develop at any lvl range. People think they couldnt do it but I think more would suck it up and stay and many more would return then would be lost if things like GS where forever cleansed from the game along with pretty much all the broken OP monty haul loot.

    A characters power should 90% come from the characters levels and nothing else. Gear should not define nor redefine ones power potential in any content beyond the basic tools of weapons to break DRs though one might then ask why even have creatures with DRs when everyone carries the tools to bypass them anyways or is at least supposed to to have a chance at victory.

    But nothing anyone can or will ever say will make me believe the constant addition of collectables and materials that has especially been on the rise since FTP is anything but a way to force players to feel like they need to buy the biggest bags from the store.

    Nor do I really expect any of the fanbois or even the haters to get what I am saying. They want to think the system as is has merit based on some personal preference or another, rather then recognize how those systems they like have contributed to DDO slowing bleeding out players more then anything else.

    As for fixxing bugs etc, not even a reasonable thing to wish for as its proven by history to simply be impossible for Turbine staff. Asking them to fix bugs is like asking them to bring about world peace.

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