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  1. #81
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    Dupers are costing them money. Duped Raid Timer Bypasses mean people aren't buying them from the store. Duped raid items means that people don't have to buy Raid Timer Bypasses from the store. Duped Ottos.... Duped Jewels of Fortune (I'm assuming)... Duped Mnemonic pots... ETC

    You have to spend money to make money. So if they want these profits back they are going to have to dedicate some money to fighting dupers. If they don't then we know that the doomsayers are right.

    Oh and people are hesitant to spend money on DDO because it looks neglected and like the good employees are leaving. If Turbine doesn't actually intend to shut down the game or put it on maintenance in the near future then they will have to spend some money to make it look like the game is still alive in order to instill confidence in people to spend money on the game. Again: you have to spend money to make money.
    So fix some of the major bugs?

  2. #82
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    I have said this before, and I'll say it again. They can't "fix" anything till they stabilize their game.
    What do you mean by stabilize?

  3. #83
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    Wait a second!!! Let me get this straight!

    ... people actually still craft?


    lol the economy is gone. Hahaha the very thought of one is just funny. Plat has no meaning other then selling off everything you get in a quest to a vender for 30 grand or so because we all have the top/pretty close weapons/gear.

    Shards killed off the economy the rest of the way. Their is only one economy left and it ain't in the game. Its on 3rd party market boards and its item to item trades. cash literally has no value in game anymore. With shards being used mainly for airships now. And even that wont last.

    I'm actually waiting for them to open up a turbine store specifically for shards to open up and corner the market.
    Through avarice, evil smiles; through insanity, it sings.

  4. #84
    Community Member lugoman's Avatar
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    I blame Lance Armstrong, once he did it things got out of hand.

  5. #85
    Community Member Full_Bleed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    I still find it funny and hypocritical that people are still getting upset about this though. People complain that someone dupes items in game (that they did not earn) but it is a okay if they pay to cheat to get items that they did not earn in game.

    The best advice I can give comes straight from the fanbois. Do not worry about what others do. The economy was ruined due to P2W and it is continuing to be destroyed as it currently is. Six one way half a dozen another.
    This.

    Whether items are duped or the game mechanics designed to make said items hard to acquire are bypassed with cash, the end result to players who partake in neither is the same.

    I used to care when people exploited the game. I also used to care when the integrity of the game's foundational mechanics were cheapened with P2W. Now I just can not allow myself to care.

    The integrity of the game has been violated in both cases and will continue to be violated in creative ways that are out of my sphere of influence.

    Now I just put on my blinders and play the game with my static group... trying to ignore the impact the other players around me have on the game. I know that is antithetical to an MMO. It is a lesser game for it. Achievements, benchmarks, and the economy are completely invalid and corrupted. The macrocosm is diseased. But at least the microcosm that I can control is still fun.

    Who knows... maybe the next MMO I invest in will get it right.

  6. #86
    Community Member eachna_gislin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Full_Bleed View Post
    This.

    Whether items are duped or the game mechanics designed to make said items hard to acquire are bypassed with cash, the end result to players who partake in neither is the same.

    I used to care when people exploited the game. I also used to care when the integrity of the game's foundational mechanics were cheapened with P2W. Now I just can not allow myself to care.

    The integrity of the game has been violated in both cases and will continue to be violated in creative ways that are out of my sphere of influence.

    Now I just put on my blinders and play the game with my static group... trying to ignore the impact the other players around me have on the game. I know that is antithetical to an MMO. It is a lesser game for it. Achievements, benchmarks, and the economy are completely invalid and corrupted. The macrocosm is diseased. But at least the microcosm that I can control is still fun.

    Who knows... maybe the next MMO I invest in will get it right.
    I have to say "this" to you as well. The above is exactly how I feel.

    Producer Mal has been bragging on public forums that he got a fat bonus check and all is well. So, really, there's nothing to be worried about. Turbine's bottom line is healthy and we have no reason for concern.

    Frankly, they made their bed and they can lie in it.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Full_Bleed View Post
    This.

    Whether items are duped or the game mechanics designed to make said items hard to acquire are bypassed with cash, the end result to players who partake in neither is the same.

    I used to care when people exploited the game. I also used to care when the integrity of the game's foundational mechanics were cheapened with P2W. Now I just can not allow myself to care.

    The integrity of the game has been violated in both cases and will continue to be violated in creative ways that are out of my sphere of influence.

    Now I just put on my blinders and play the game with my static group... trying to ignore the impact the other players around me have on the game. I know that is antithetical to an MMO. It is a lesser game for it. Achievements, benchmarks, and the economy are completely invalid and corrupted. The macrocosm is diseased. But at least the microcosm that I can control is still fun.

    Who knows... maybe the next MMO I invest in will get it right.
    Not at all. One person is providing Turbine with revenue to keep the game open and the other is costing Turbine money and diverting resources from fixes, enhancements and things players would enjoy. There are many armchair producers here that don't understand the challenges they face and earning revenue is a challenge every year. They weren't earning enough revenue under the old model and went F2P. They can't stay in business if everything is free.

    This is nothing more than a excuse to make someone duping feel better about duping. That is all it is plain and simple.

    While I've never dived head-first into another MMO like DDO I have dabbled a little bit back in late 2012 and early 2013. What I found is that every other game I tried had much more P2W than DDO. It just wasn't talked about on their forums because P2W discussions were banned as part of the forum rules.
    CC Casting Druid: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...C-Summer-Build
    Shiradi Wiz Plan for 1st Lifers: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...r-First-Lifers
    U25 Patch 1 Dex Halfling Assassin Build: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...x-Assassin-1-0
    Warlock DC Caster: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ld-Blast-Build

    Several characters on Sarlona all starting with "Rand" in the Guild "Guardians of House Cannith". My main four characters are Randowl (18 rogue 2 artificer mechanic - hope to go back to DC casting some day), Randslar (Bard 14 / Fighter 4 / Rogue 2 Swashbuckler), Randek (Druid CC Caster 17/Fvs 3) and Randomall (Rogue 20 assassin).

  8. #88
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    Not at all. One person is providing Turbine with revenue to keep the game open and the other is costing Turbine money and diverting resources from fixes, enhancements and things players would enjoy. There are many armchair producers here that don't understand the challenges they face and earning revenue is a challenge every year. They weren't earning enough revenue under the old model and went F2P. They can't stay in business if everything is free.

    This is nothing more than a excuse to make someone duping feel better about duping. That is all it is plain and simple.

    While I've never dived head-first into another MMO like DDO I have dabbled a little bit back in late 2012 and early 2013. What I found is that every other game I tried had much more P2W than DDO. It just wasn't talked about on their forums because P2W discussions were banned as part of the forum rules.
    C'mon, you can't be serious.

    Ddo set up multiple past life tracks as a win condition and then sold xp directly in the store. This is the de facto definition of p2w. You literally cannot get more p2w than that.

    As for other games, guild wars is one of the most profitable games at the moment as has almost zero p2w inthestore.

  9. #89
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    I have said this before, and I'll say it again. They can't "fix" anything till they stabilize their game.
    Its the other way around. In order to stabilize the game they need to make it more attractive for new players, and retaining older players alike. Doing so means fixing those issues which make it appear less attractive in those regards.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    C'mon, you can't be serious.

    Ddo set up multiple past life tracks as a win condition and then sold xp directly in the store. This is the de facto definition of p2w. You literally cannot get more p2w than that.

    As for other games, guild wars is one of the most profitable games at the moment as has almost zero p2w inthestore.
    "NCsoft's yearly financials are in, showing a three per cent growth in net profit, year-on-year, to a total of 159 billion ($150m). Revenue remained essentially flat at 757 billion ($714 million), with savings on marketing and staff costs pushing the publisher's profit up slightly.

    Ncsoft's flagship MMO Guild Wars 2 showed a decline in sales and revenue "

    Yeah I am quite serious.
    CC Casting Druid: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...C-Summer-Build
    Shiradi Wiz Plan for 1st Lifers: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...r-First-Lifers
    U25 Patch 1 Dex Halfling Assassin Build: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...x-Assassin-1-0
    Warlock DC Caster: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ld-Blast-Build

    Several characters on Sarlona all starting with "Rand" in the Guild "Guardians of House Cannith". My main four characters are Randowl (18 rogue 2 artificer mechanic - hope to go back to DC casting some day), Randslar (Bard 14 / Fighter 4 / Rogue 2 Swashbuckler), Randek (Druid CC Caster 17/Fvs 3) and Randomall (Rogue 20 assassin).

  11. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knobull View Post
    The fix is simple: when at the OS level, the network connection reports itself as disconnected, throw up a modal dialog in the game client, that says "network disconnected" - "retry connection" or "exit game". A modal dialog is one that prevents input to any other control or window in the application. This will prevent almost all duping exploits, most certainly the current active ones.
    If monitored at the device level this is possible. Using the Network List Manager API to register a callback function in ddoclient would allow it to know when the local box has been physically disconnected from a network. However, the NLM is only available in Vista and later. Under XP the problem requires NDIS driver polling, a lot of assumptions about the network type (including a loopback) and may or may not work for many wireless NICs.

    At any rate, the problem is not as cut and dried as it would seem. Implementing your idea would introduce a host of unknown and unintended consequences. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it would need to be thoroughly tested and I'm not all that certain Turbine has the resources to do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrapco View Post
    Yeah, brilliant! Change everything to TCP too, so you can actually do it!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    If you wanted to stream video over the interwebz, which protocol would you use, TCP or UDP? and why?
    TCP and UDP are transport protocols. They have nothing whatsoever to do with the device hardware. Stop thinking in sockets.
    The newest computer can merely compound, at speed, the oldest problem in the relations between human beings, and in the end the communicator will be confronted with the old problem, of what to say and how to say it. - Edward R. Murrow (1964)

  12. #92
    Founder & Hero cdbd3rd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lugoman View Post
    I blame Lance Armstrong, once he did it things got out of hand.

    Don't think I've ever seen Duping and Doping intermixed before...




    That said, I'm shocked this thread made it 24+ hours...
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  13. #93
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    Not at all. One person is providing Turbine with revenue to keep the game open and the other is costing Turbine money and diverting resources from fixes, enhancements and things players would enjoy. There are many armchair producers here that don't understand the challenges they face and earning revenue is a challenge every year. They weren't earning enough revenue under the old model and went F2P. They can't stay in business if everything is free.

    This is nothing more than a excuse to make someone duping feel better about duping. That is all it is plain and simple.
    This... Buying stuff from the store also is limited, while duping is not... Plus, no one is going to buy a ton of an item with cash, then sell them on AH for low plat or shard amounts... But a duper will because it's free...

    Duping is far more corrosive to the game than buying stuff from the store.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by geoffhanna View Post
    I don't belong in this thread, so please ignore my presence. I just wanted to make a math point. Because math.

    Phlogistan is BTCOA. The number of raid completions is already tracked. Think about that.
    So if I TR'ed or ITR'ed my character after 40 runs then did another 20 the next life then only have 5 in my current life I should be banned because I have more Phlogistan than raid completions this life? You do realize that the counters reset on TR's and ITR's?

    There is no way this method would work. It would sweep up EVERYBODY who TR'ed or ITR'ed. Math doesn't solve this problem in the least.

  15. #95
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    C'mon, you can't be serious.

    Ddo set up multiple past life tracks as a win condition and then sold xp directly in the store. This is the de facto definition of p2w. You literally cannot get more p2w than that.
    Except multiple past lives are NOT a "win condition". You can complete any quest in the game, even most EE, with a first life character.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  16. #96
    Community Member Grimlock's Avatar
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    Once again. If they track or query a list for all the x items that exist on the server and compare that to a query of how many x items dropped from x raid these numbers should match. They don't.

    Since they don't someone at Turbine needs to run down who has the duplicated items and find out the source.

    BtCoA, BtC, BtA - doesn't matter. Anything is fair game and can be copied.

    Someone who can write queries and someone who can do reporting should be able to create some type of report/dashboard/interface allowing anyone at Turbine to select an item and the run the query to track down how many are in game versus how many have dropped out of a raid or quest chest. From there the investigation team runs down the duplicated items by checking the transaction history. They could investigate -an- item/week and then start over on a new item each week.
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  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    C'mon, you can't be serious.

    Ddo set up multiple past life tracks as a win condition and then sold xp directly in the store. This is the de facto definition of p2w. You literally cannot get more p2w than that.

    As for other games, guild wars is one of the most profitable games at the moment as has almost zero p2w inthestore.
    Umm they sell gold in the store don't they ? Last time i checked those ascended pieces and getting the skill to make them was pretty expensive.
    Also while i was playing(which admittedly is years ago, i quit at the ascended fiasco) they were continually taking away farming methods to make money and most non traders were extremely starved for gold.
    Yes their p2w scheme is not obvious but all the more nefarious.

    And yes i know ascended gear isn't needed to do things, but neither are past lives.
    And yep DDO does the same thing with astral shards.
    Last edited by Pandir; 06-25-2014 at 08:29 AM.

  18. #98
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    Here's a couple fixes for ya...


    1. Play the game... PLAY the game... play the GAME... PLAY the GAME. Does that help?
    2. If not, then borrow this ladder and come down to the level of everyone else and stop judging others...





    Quote Originally Posted by fTdOmen View Post
    <snip>

    Also an apology for the incorrect banning last year for me & my partner would be much appreciated.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    And again, the honest players suffer for the action of a small minority of players that want to stick it to Turbine by cheating.

    When they are caught they blame Turbine for it.

    Getting so sick of it and the apparent lack of Turbine to do anything about them, where they congregate, and letting keep on playing when they should be perm removed, maybe it is time to petition WB to do something about it?

    <snip>
    Exploiting hurts everyone that does not partake.
    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    From what I've read, this could be solved by removing the auto-completion of item actions. If something happens to mailing, trading, banking, and other actions with items have the item revert to the original location / state instead of auto-complete. Or have the lost and found system kick in.

    If it is true that this new bag bank has done nothing to stop duping then it was wasted development time and only inconveniences the rest of us (bank window closing). I'd rather be inconvenienced by item actions not auto-completing (especially if it sticks it to the cheaters).
    Last edited by MuleAxe; 06-25-2014 at 08:35 AM.
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  19. #99
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    This... Buying stuff from the store also is limited, while duping is not... Plus, no one is going to buy a ton of an item with cash, then sell them on AH for low plat or shard amounts... But a duper will because it's free...

    Duping is far more corrosive to the game than buying stuff from the store.
    Theres an entire niche economy where people buy timer bypass and sell them for smaller amounts of plat each.

    Even that gets ruined by the exploiters, as timer bypass as a type of currency gets devalued when huge amounts enter the game through duping.

    Where I say theres no difference in impact is from a gameplay perspective. In the discussions on mana pots, people used to say it doesnt impact someone elses game if someone guzzles mana pots to cheese quest completions. If this is true, then it is true regardless where the mana pots came from. Turbine has a vested interest to curb exploiting, primarily due to income reasons, but from a player perspective, those who used to say player A guzzling mana pots doesnt impact player B negatively who do a complete 180 on their view due to the semantic detail of where the mana pots came from, are waffling. Mana pots is but one example here.
    Last edited by Chai; 06-25-2014 at 08:51 AM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  20. #100
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    Oh jeez, I can't make money from my bypass timers anymore? I suppose I'll have to find something else that I have and people want. Oh, wait! Never mind, I'll just go play the game and enjoy myself.
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