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  1. #1
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    Default In a game with such rampant duping what's the best path forward?

    Crafting is done in this game, there's no way the devs will ever get on top of the dupers, without banning innocent people. I got banned in Oct last year despite not having duped a thing, any automatic system turbine puts in place will end up punishing other longtime players who've focused on trading. I'm biased due to wrongful punishment, but I'm of the opinion that the bans handed out last year did not make the game better or improve anything in any meaningful way.

    I think the best path forward at this point is for Turbine to stop:
    releasing items/systems that rely on ingredients
    selling items that use the barter interface
    stop breaking the UI to prevent cheating

    Turbine don't have the resources or the motivation to properly fix the underlying problem, so the next best solutions would be to:
    All new named loot are dropped as completed items only
    Ottos boxes get replaced with a mechanic that auto grants xp in exchange for TP. (gm's can directly grant xp, so there must be a way)
    New event items are delivered as a complete item via mail.
    Augments return to being an item that has to be used via the stone of exchange (ie. no more barter interface)


    At this point, I think it's time to consider what happens if exploits are here to stay, If turbine could change their current (failing) approach and instead make all items obtained via ingredients second class loot, at the very least new players could/would be given useful items. Cheaters would either quit, or go back to playing the game to obtain new loot. Both outcomes are positive.

    Also an apology for the incorrect banning last year for me & my partner would be much appreciated.

  2. #2
    Community Member GreataxeUser's Avatar
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    Someone is duping invis pots Cannith, not sure who it is, but they need to be dealt with.

    This potion is viable for melee barbarians who need to invis while raged. They are on the auction house like candy, and we all know how rare they are. It does not make sense!

    Selling them for 10k a piece, how the hell did this rare potion, which a lot of us need meet the demand to sell for so much? Answer: Duping! Make them pay please!

    I see them up for 10 at 100k plat, and down the line, 5 at 60k, 1 at 5 k, 3 at 45k, it is like the duper(s) is trying to create and alibi for himself, herself. I will buy them all and they pop up again overnight again in huge amounts! does not make sense for a potion that is so rare!
    Last edited by GreataxeUser; 06-24-2014 at 01:08 AM.

  3. #3
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
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    Default

    It should not matter. Years ago when we saw ottos boxes and for argument sake (p2w or p2s) items in the store, many of the fanbois would say that if you did not want to spend, to mind your own business of what others do and play the game. This is the same thing all over again.

    You say that it hurts the economy? It hurt the economy for me when people would buy store pots and not the ones I was putting on the ah. Or the countless other items that I would post. People could easily P2W and destroy the economy for me.

    In all sincerity, I could care less anymore. I still find it funny and hypocritical that people are still getting upset about this though. People complain that someone dupes items in game (that they did not earn) but it is a okay if they pay to cheat to get items that they did not earn in game.

    The best advice I can give comes straight from the fanbois. Do not worry about what others do. The economy was ruined due to P2W and it is continuing to be destroyed as it currently is. Six one way half a dozen another.
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  4. #4
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    IBTL

    As for the game, play the game, not the trading game, progress your characters, if your terrified of buying something that be duped then I guess farm it yourself is the only option. If you can find deals on the ah/asah for something you might want or need for a toon get it I suppose thats if you don't think theres anything morally wrong with this, but I would not take part in large scale trading at all not worth the risks, I guess average joe gamer might be able to get some crafting stuff cheaper and faster than before but if average joe gamer got lucky with some pulls the value of what he could maybe get for it might be much lower than before I guess.

    As someone else said it was just like what the fan bois said with pay to win, don't want to buy don't. As for the company maybe losing profits because of the exploited poor code or whatever I don't see how the average player is going to help much with this situation. Sure some have the free time to zealously spend hours at a time waiting around certain places trying to find people acting suspiciously to report, but I think even if most people did this it would still end up being a drop in the ocean and they would get flooded with reports. Basically its up to them to come up with a solution. I don't see why the average DDO player has to spend hours *working* when they have little free time and they just want to play.

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    It should not matter. Years ago when we saw ottos boxes and for argument sake (p2w or p2s) items in the store, many of the fanbois would say that if you did not want to spend, to mind your own business of what others do and play the game. This is the same thing all over again.

    You say that it hurts the economy? It hurt the economy for me when people would buy store pots and not the ones I was putting on the ah. Or the countless other items that I would post. People could easily P2W and destroy the economy for me.

    In all sincerity, I could care less anymore. I still find it funny and hypocritical that people are still getting upset about this though. People complain that someone dupes items in game (that they did not earn) but it is a okay if they pay to cheat to get items that they did not earn in game.

    The best advice I can give comes straight from the fanbois. Do not worry about what others do. The economy was ruined due to P2W and it is continuing to be destroyed as it currently is. Six one way half a dozen another.
    first they implemented pay to win items to increase their profit, with the disadvantage to raise elitist powercheaters. Now people are just duping those items making the playerbase even more elitist powercheating, and turbine does not even make profit from it. you reap what you sow, to our all downside.

  6. #6
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    Default

    I didn't bring up the Economy, Nor punishing others. I think one is beyond saving and the other has proved pointless. I'm more interested in a remedy that encourages people to start questing again.
    Last edited by Cordovan; 06-24-2014 at 09:39 AM.

  7. #7
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morkahn82 View Post
    first they implemented pay to win items to increase their profit, with the disadvantage to raise elitist powercheaters. Now people are just duping those items making the playerbase even more elitist powercheating, and turbine does not even make profit from it. you reap what you sow, to our all downside.
    Yes the irony.

  8. #8
    2015 DDO Players Council Seikojin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fTdOmen View Post
    Crafting is done in this game, there's no way the devs will ever get on top of the dupers, without banning innocent people. I got banned in Oct last year despite not having duped a thing, any automatic system turbine puts in place will end up punishing other longtime players who've focused on trading. I'm biased due to wrongful punishment, but I'm of the opinion that the bans handed out last year did not make the game better or improve anything in any meaningful way.

    I think the best path forward at this point is for Turbine to stop:
    releasing items/systems that rely on ingredients
    selling items that use the barter interface
    stop breaking the UI to prevent cheating

    Turbine don't have the resources or the motivation to properly fix the underlying problem, so the next best solutions would be to:
    All new named loot are dropped as completed items only
    Ottos boxes get replaced with a mechanic that auto grants xp in exchange for TP. (gm's can directly grant xp, so there must be a way)
    New event items are delivered as a complete item via mail.
    Augments return to being an item that has to be used via the stone of exchange (ie. no more barter interface)


    At this point, I think it's time to consider what happens if exploits are here to stay, If turbine could change their current (failing) approach and instead make all items obtained via ingredients second class loot, at the very least new players could/would be given useful items. Cheaters would either quit, or go back to playing the game to obtain new loot. Both outcomes are positive.

    Also an apology for the incorrect banning last year for me & my partner would be much appreciated.
    Honestly, Ingredient based items are a fun build up mechanic. So removing such a rich, deep feature, one that has some of the best gear available in the game, is not something you can just remove. And not adding more is justifiable in one sense, but not in five others. The desire for the players to have GS2.0 and at least a few more build up options outweighs the minor infractions of the few.

    You don't exploit, so why is it a problem if someone else does? If you can spot a fake or duped item, you are the one in the power position to do something about it. File a ticket, don't buy the items, etc. etc.

    I think people would be less upset if they lost an item and was told it was a duped item, rather than a suspension. However from my experience, suspensions don't come from buying dupes.

  9. #9
    Community Member Ykt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreataxeUser View Post
    Someone is duping invis pots Cannith, not sure who it is, but they need to be dealt with.

    This potion is viable for melee barbarians who need to invis while raged. They are on the auction house like candy, and we all know how rare they are. It does not make sense!

    Selling them for 10k a piece, how the hell did this rare potion, which a lot of us need meet the demand to sell for so much? Answer: Duping! Make them pay please!

    I see them up for 10 at 100k plat, and down the line, 5 at 60k, 1 at 5 k, 3 at 45k, it is like the duper(s) is trying to create and alibi for himself, herself. I will buy them all and they pop up again overnight again in huge amounts! does not make sense for a potion that is so rare!
    Not sure if trolling or not ...

    I accumulated over 500 invis potions over 5 years. I didn't buy any.

    Someone who does a lot of trading could have acquired many more.
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  10. #10
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ykt View Post
    Not sure if trolling or not ...

    I accumulated over 500 invis potions over 5 years. I didn't buy any.

    Someone who does a lot of trading could have acquired many more.
    i would find the odd one and put it up for pretty cheap less than 10k even just to save space, I have no idea how many iv'e collected over my playing time, as I had no real use for em as I had clickies.

  11. #11
    Community Member hp1055cm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fTdOmen View Post
    stop breaking the UI to prevent cheating
    That much I agree with. Bags are almost more trouble than they are worth now.

    How is it that they have time to redesign ship buffs while including an easy 1-click button that virtually makes the majority of the changes purely window dressing but never seem to have time to fix very real and very frustrating existing problem with bags - Nay, they make bags even more annoying.
    Hey and thanks for the reroll button #*+^%$@#s. That adds so much to the quality of game play I can't even describe it....

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    It should not matter. Years ago when we saw ottos boxes and for argument sake (p2w or p2s) items in the store, many of the fanbois would say that if you did not want to spend, to mind your own business of what others do and play the game. This is the same thing all over again.

    You say that it hurts the economy? It hurt the economy for me when people would buy store pots and not the ones I was putting on the ah. Or the countless other items that I would post. People could easily P2W and destroy the economy for me.

    In all sincerity, I could care less anymore. I still find it funny and hypocritical that people are still getting upset about this though. People complain that someone dupes items in game (that they did not earn) but it is a okay if they pay to cheat to get items that they did not earn in game.

    The best advice I can give comes straight from the fanbois. Do not worry about what others do. The economy was ruined due to P2W and it is continuing to be destroyed as it currently is. Six one way half a dozen another.
    Two completely unrelated topics as much as the usual suspects want to pretend they are related.
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  13. #13
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    I can't figure out how they haven't managed to prevent duping yet. I mean here, let me show you:

    1) Each item gets unique id
    2) When action related to item is being done check if item with that id exists in the database
    3) Check action being performed (ie,moving from A to B, is item with that id currently located in A? If so, update item status to be located in B. If not, then fail)
    4) Do not create new items with these actions and delete old ones, just update existing one's data.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreataxeUser View Post
    Someone is duping invis pots Cannith, not sure who it is, but they need to be dealt with.

    This potion is viable for melee barbarians who need to invis while raged. They are on the auction house like candy, and we all know how rare they are. It does not make sense!

    Selling them for 10k a piece, how the hell did this rare potion, which a lot of us need meet the demand to sell for so much? Answer: Duping! Make them pay please!

    I see them up for 10 at 100k plat, and down the line, 5 at 60k, 1 at 5 k, 3 at 45k, it is like the duper(s) is trying to create and alibi for himself, herself. I will buy them all and they pop up again overnight again in huge amounts! does not make sense for a potion that is so rare!

    You do realize that buying them supports the duper, right? You're basically suborning duping. You're every bit as bad as the exploiter.

  15. #15
    Community Member Lithalan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ykt View Post
    Not sure if trolling or not ...

    I accumulated over 500 invis potions over 5 years. I didn't buy any.

    Someone who does a lot of trading could have acquired many more.
    I haven't accumulated 500, but I have quite a few spread over my characters. I find most of them just in breakables. I wonder if people who are amazed at how many invis pots one can find also tend to rush through quests and ignore the breakables?
    Lytharina, Chaiyse, Shaunha, Tiantarina and some mules, all on Orien in Stormreach Bowling League.

  16. #16
    Community Member kmoustakas's Avatar
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    Between exploits and the value of things changing over time (large slot guild items come to mind), investing is a bad idea.
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  17. #17
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Im surprised they weren't more heavy handed from the start. Dupe-ing undermines their ability to sell those items being duped, and it also inflates the economy due to the duped items serving as a currency as well.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  18. #18
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    Two completely unrelated topics as much as the usual suspects want to pretend they are related.
    They are different in semantics only. One is Turbine sanctioned and one is not. Other than that their impact on the game is similar.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  19. #19
    Community Member Robai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreataxeUser View Post
    Someone is duping invis pots Cannith, not sure who it is, but they need to be dealt with.

    This potion is viable for melee barbarians who need to invis while raged. They are on the auction house like candy, and we all know how rare they are. It does not make sense!

    Selling them for 10k a piece, how the hell did this rare potion, which a lot of us need meet the demand to sell for so much? Answer: Duping! Make them pay please!

    I see them up for 10 at 100k plat, and down the line, 5 at 60k, 1 at 5 k, 3 at 45k, it is like the duper(s) is trying to create and alibi for himself, herself. I will buy them all and they pop up again overnight again in huge amounts! does not make sense for a potion that is so rare!
    10k plat per potion is a normal price imho. The price on Orien varies from 10K to 20K (last time I checked - several moths ago). They are rare, but not too rare.
    It's not hard to UMD invis scrolls. At low lvls you don't need invis (it helps in Stealthy Repossession for speed though), at higher lvls your UMD should be high enough for invis scrolls on any toon.

  20. #20
    Hero JOTMON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fTdOmen View Post
    Crafting is done in this game, there's no way the devs will ever get on top of the dupers, without banning innocent people. I got banned in Oct last year despite not having duped a thing, any automatic system turbine puts in place will end up punishing other longtime players who've focused on trading. I'm biased due to wrongful punishment, but I'm of the opinion that the bans handed out last year did not make the game better or improve anything in any meaningful way.

    I think the best path forward at this point is for Turbine to stop:
    releasing items/systems that rely on ingredients
    selling items that use the barter interface
    stop breaking the UI to prevent cheating

    Turbine don't have the resources or the motivation to properly fix the underlying problem, so the next best solutions would be to:
    All new named loot are dropped as completed items only
    Ottos boxes get replaced with a mechanic that auto grants xp in exchange for TP. (gm's can directly grant xp, so there must be a way)
    New event items are delivered as a complete item via mail.
    Augments return to being an item that has to be used via the stone of exchange (ie. no more barter interface)


    At this point, I think it's time to consider what happens if exploits are here to stay, If turbine could change their current (failing) approach and instead make all items obtained via ingredients second class loot, at the very least new players could/would be given useful items. Cheaters would either quit, or go back to playing the game to obtain new loot. Both outcomes are positive.

    Also an apology for the incorrect banning last year for me & my partner would be much appreciated.
    Sounds like it is time to introduce another ingredient to replace all prior ingredients and for all future items that is not baggable or bankable, or tradeable... add a character inventory tab for the new master ingredient.
    Last edited by JOTMON; 06-24-2014 at 09:58 AM.
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