Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 37
  1. #1
    Community Member ferd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    4,289

    Default Isn't there a middle ground for the forums and game anymore?

    Let's start with the forums.

    Threads get made, people pine away on either side. And more often than not, a common middle ground was discussed.

    Now all I see are stark contrasts in opinion. (which ironically are the point of game aspect of the op) nothing gets settled. And people would rather flame each other, tell us how uber they are etc... It's become pointless.


    The game;

    I can't blame anybody, but the power creep/ power gamer/ and some bad choices made by turbine have turned many aspects of the game into a circus.

    Do we really need the ultimate end-game? This is D&D in it's basic form, THAT game doesn't have an end. get it? Sure it's an mmo, but a D20 RPG doesn't have an end, or an end-game.

    There has been an evolution towards an actual end-game scenario. And in many ways, it's cool, In many ways it's bad as well.
    There was an end game once, twice, and a third time. And each time, the game evolved to create a situation where a new "end-game" was needed.

    MajorMal and the team have a daunting task, with less resources than any other time in this game's history. We as a player base can help with them righting the ship, mainly by being supportive, with constructive feedback. (not flames)

    Maybe we should pull in the rein's, and try to enjoy what we have. For those not around, we went almost 2 years with no new content. And the majority of players stuck it out, or at least kept an interest. This recent mentality of give me the ultimate or you suckk has caused more rifts than Ive ever seen.

    For us (player base) there is no right or wrong, but how we present ourselves, is a direct correlation to how we perceive this game should be.

    *question- how come airships, are the only ship ever/ anywhere/ in rl or game, that doesn't have turbulence/ rough seas etc...* HHMMMM




  2. #2
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin, birthplace of D&D
    Posts
    21,807

    Default

    I see the opposite compared to years previous. There used to be alot more arguing about the direction of the game in 2008-2011. Those who haeld the more extreme opinions have since attrited. These were the folks wh would claim the game wouldnt be around 6 months from now if they didnt get their way, or they were rage quitting and taking all their friends with them etc.

    Most of the people who are left who still post negative feedback still enjoy playing the game, but feel some specific things could be done better. The discussions you see are mostly folks who all know something needs to be done, but dont agree on what that something is.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  3. #3
    Community Member Ausdoerrt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    2,014

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ferd View Post
    Do we really need the ultimate end-game? This is D&D in it's basic form, THAT game doesn't have an end. get it? Sure it's an mmo, but a D20 RPG doesn't have an end, or an end-game.
    I think the perception is that the game was at its best at a stable 20 cap with numerous options for activities at cap as well as the TR hamster wheel. It is hard to say whether building a similar "end-game" now will return the 'good old' feeling associated with those times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    I see the opposite compared to years previous. There used to be alot more arguing about the direction of the game in 2008-2011. Those who haeld the more extreme opinions have since attrited. These were the folks wh would claim the game wouldnt be around 6 months from now if they didnt get their way, or they were rage quitting and taking all their friends with them etc.

    Most of the people who are left who still post negative feedback still enjoy playing the game, but feel some specific things could be done better. The discussions you see are mostly folks who all know something needs to be done, but dont agree on what that something is.
    Turbine has also finally evolved to the point of listening to its customer (on occasion) and having productive open discussions.
    "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. ... People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true." Terry Goodkind

  4. #4
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Seminole, FL
    Posts
    10,639

    Default

    I only see one extreme side dominating the forums.
    Yes there is an opposing side, but the number of people representing it are few.

    These forums are dominated by Turbine hating... elitists... have been for awhile now.

    Elitists is not the best word for them... they actually no longer hate noobs or comment on them in any way.
    But it is the best word I know for those who are obsessed with "more power!"

    More power! That is what I see.
    Perhaps in game even more than on the forums.

    Zerge, zerge, zerge; grind, grind, grind. People are even upset that e3BC doesn't have enough grind in it.
    (could add cheat, cheat, cheat if it is possible, and will defend that cheating in any way they can think of.)

    Any opposing viewpoint is ganged up on in an attempt to squash quickly.


    Not sure why Turbine hate and "more power" go together......but they seem to....

    Any other viewpoint is shared by a very few. and middle road views are grouped in with the other fanbois and flower sniffers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  5. #5
    Forum Turtle
    2014 DDO Players Council
    TrinityTurtle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Findlay, OH
    Posts
    3,229

    Default

    I'm a fairly simple turtle. And I currently like the game as it stands now versus where it was when I started in 09 because...there is a lot more things to do. I'm entertained longer, I have a lot of options to go questing and having fun, and a lot more than I had back then. I'm having more fun now than I did then. That is my middle ground. Some of the mecahnics they changed/added I like, some I don't like, but I'm still entertained and having a good time when I log in.
    Turtel, Turtley Wrath, Tortoisse, Waterssong, Victerr Creed, Utahraptor, Velocaraptor, Minddancer, Loggerhead, Matamata, Sulcata, Ticerratops, Sierrann, Hankx, Shartelhane

    Member of Highlords of Malkier! Help channel, everyone welcome in this channel!

  6. #6
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    2,523

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TrinityTurtle View Post
    I'm a fairly simple turtle. And I currently like the game as it stands now versus where it was when I started in 09 because...there is a lot more things to do. I'm entertained longer, I have a lot of options to go questing and having fun, and a lot more than I had back then. I'm having more fun now than I did then. That is my middle ground. Some of the mecahnics they changed/added I like, some I don't like, but I'm still entertained and having a good time when I log in.
    I'm enjoying the game too, but my favorite toon by far is my shiradi wizard... If I read the forums too much, I don't feel like playing the game, there are some very negative people here.

  7. #7
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Aegis
    Posts
    1,500

    Default

    I try not to be negative but it is hard sometimes when you see things that might work better if done slightly different.

    The game is fun still
    Characters: Celemia / Tukson / Thau (Broken link) / Atremus

    “A pessimist is one who feels bad when he feels good for fear he'll feel worse when he feels better.”

  8. #8
    Community Member Grosbeak07's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Thelanis
    Posts
    7,684

    Default

    I've pretty much stopped reading the forums, other than to look up dev comments and keep in touch with a few people who have gone onto other games.

    I log on, I run quests and I have fun.

    If I stop having fun, I know I need a break. Maybe its a few days, maybe its a few weeks. But I don't come here and get all passive-aggressive with a company. Who has time for that kind of stress?

    My only request is that DDO gets back to what makes it great, Classes, Races and Content. There will never be a happy "end game" whether you add 0 or 75 new raids, people will always find fault. I think the last few original quests (Study in Sable, Brothers of the Forge, Haunted Halls and Precious Cargo) are 4 of the BEST quests in the entire game. Not great for loot, grinding or leveling fast, but are much closer to the spirit of DnD than running Impossible Demands 100 times.

    But this is a video game and Turbine needs to make money. They got to try and keep everyone happy, sadly what usually happens is they make no one happy.
    Magical Rings are well... magical. - Gandalf

  9. #9
    Community Member Ghwyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Cannith
    Posts
    164

    Default no middle ground for grief trolls

    Those kind are entertained by their complaints. People with no physical social interaction often become like this.
    Gwhyn Saige - heroic and epic completionist, loving the EK build
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...elee-wizard-EK

  10. #10
    Community Member arkonas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    2,547

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Grosbeak07 View Post
    I've pretty much stopped reading the forums, other than to look up dev comments and keep in touch with a few people who have gone onto other games.

    I log on, I run quests and I have fun.

    If I stop having fun, I know I need a break. Maybe its a few days, maybe its a few weeks. But I don't come here and get all passive-aggressive with a company. Who has time for that kind of stress?

    My only request is that DDO gets back to what makes it great, Classes, Races and Content. There will never be a happy "end game" whether you add 0 or 75 new raids, people will always find fault. I think the last few original quests (Study in Sable, Brothers of the Forge, Haunted Halls and Precious Cargo) are 4 of the BEST quests in the entire game. Not great for loot, grinding or leveling fast, but are much closer to the spirit of DnD than running Impossible Demands 100 times.

    But this is a video game and Turbine needs to make money. They got to try and keep everyone happy, sadly what usually happens is they make no one happy.
    Exactly what i keep trying to tell people. You can't make everyone happy. you can't force someone for example to like 3 barrel cove. if ya hate it then there will be no change in that ever. now i guess im different then other people when i say i run stuff i hate not by choice, but just because i do this every time i tr. there are just a few quests i hate a lot, but i might solo it, pug, or guild/friend it. nothing will ever change that i dislike whatever the quest may be but i run them.

  11. #11
    2015 DDO Players Council
    Ravenguard Press
    MuleAxe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    The Raven
    Posts
    728

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ferd View Post
    Let's start with the forums.

    Threads get made, people pine away on either side. And more often than not, a common middle ground was discussed.

    Now all I see are stark contrasts in opinion. (which ironically are the point of game aspect of the op) nothing gets settled. And people would rather flame each other, tell us how uber they are etc... It's become pointless.


    The game;

    I can't blame anybody, but the power creep/ power gamer/ and some bad choices made by turbine have turned many aspects of the game into a circus.

    Do we really need the ultimate end-game? This is D&D in it's basic form, THAT game doesn't have an end. get it? Sure it's an mmo, but a D20 RPG doesn't have an end, or an end-game.

    There has been an evolution towards an actual end-game scenario. And in many ways, it's cool, In many ways it's bad as well.
    There was an end game once, twice, and a third time. And each time, the game evolved to create a situation where a new "end-game" was needed.

    MajorMal and the team have a daunting task, with less resources than any other time in this game's history. We as a player base can help with them righting the ship, mainly by being supportive, with constructive feedback. (not flames)

    Maybe we should pull in the rein's, and try to enjoy what we have. For those not around, we went almost 2 years with no new content. And the majority of players stuck it out, or at least kept an interest. This recent mentality of give me the ultimate or you suckk has caused more rifts than Ive ever seen.

    For us (player base) there is no right or wrong, but how we present ourselves, is a direct correlation to how we perceive this game should be.

    *question- how come airships, are the only ship ever/ anywhere/ in rl or game, that doesn't have turbulence/ rough seas etc...* HHMMMM
    Perhaps not a direct reply to what you are saying and asking, but there are so many differences between the mind-set of a D&D player, and one that has only played the video game. The main one, IMHO, is that a D&D player takes things as they come, and creates ways to overcome obstacles that are thrown at them. Having an “end game” would signify the typical end of a campaign; whereas the end would ultimately result in a new beginning.

    Again, just my opinion, but it seems to me, the divide is created by the dichotomy that has resulted from taking a product based on (and in many ways modeled from) a fluid, flexible, and creative social interaction, and converting it into something much less fluid, flexible, and creative. D&D attracts a certain type of person, and MMO”s attract another; if one loves the other with a passion, then there is one type of conflict that results; not bad, necessarily, but one that is spawned from differing opinions. If you have the MMO player that doesn’t know, or respect the D&D experience and lore, then there’s a caustic divide created. The D&D player needed to work as part of a team to overcome the challenges thrown at them, where the MMO player who doesn't understand or hasn't experienced the journeys into an imaginative world finds it easy to harshly criticize others, purely based on a video game experience.

    Turbine has the daunting task of trying to make everyone happy, while at the same time creating a profitable product.

    My opinion? We might have fewer problems if people worry less about the “end game”, and more about the experiences the game creates. Learn what D&D is, it’s great past, the creativity and imagination that was involved in creating a campaign, and the pure enjoyment of playing the game.
    `````````````````````````````````````````````````` ````````````````````````````
    MuleAxe | Occidere| MuleRaptor | MuleFort | MuleParts

    M O N A R C H
    of Thelanis

  12. #12
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    ¿
    Posts
    16,787

    Default

    The forums are, like most other corners of the internet, an analog for Cable News. Sure, it's possible to find level-headed and rational discourse, but that mostly gets lost in the gnashing of teeth from the polemic armed camps on either side of any issue. There is no middle ground because there is no pause in the rhetoric to consider that the other viewpoint might, every so often, be making a good point.
    Last edited by Memnir; 06-18-2014 at 12:30 PM.
    53699

  13. #13
    Community Member Greeka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Grimshaw, AB
    Posts
    386

    Default

    People **** and moan about everything they can because they feel that their opinion is valid and meaningful when the majority of the time it is not. They feel the louder they shout the more important they become because people are forced to hear them and when none responds to any of this that everyone thinks and feels just like they do. We have a player council now, and I am curious why they have not spoke about what they can since the formation of this.

    How about giving some feedback how the player's may of directed the direction of the new content based on input they had and feedback related to any play testing they did and why they choose to try and direct in the way they did or why they felt their feedback was meaningful in this process. It is at least 6 months into the first council's term with a new council coming in 6 months or less, if you feel your opinion and feedback and drive the game in a better direction then start campaigning now to help improve the life of all your fellow gamers from all worlds here.

    One of the main reasons I stopped coming to the forums is all the negativity and general *****iness of people who feel they are entitled to have their rants and opinions listened to. Hell what I am saying here is meaningless as well and can be ignored if you so choose. Most of all this is a game to be played for ones enjoyment. Don't like it, go play somewhere else where you feel you are right.

  14. #14
    Founder Krell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Holtberg, Dereth
    Posts
    1,484

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ferd View Post
    Let's start with the forums.

    Threads get made, people pine away on either side. And more often than not, a common middle ground was discussed.

    Now all I see are stark contrasts in opinion. (which ironically are the point of game aspect of the op) nothing gets settled. And people would rather flame each other, tell us how uber they are etc... It's become pointless.


    The game;

    I can't blame anybody, but the power creep/ power gamer/ and some bad choices made by turbine have turned many aspects of the game into a circus.

    Do we really need the ultimate end-game? This is D&D in it's basic form, THAT game doesn't have an end. get it? Sure it's an mmo, but a D20 RPG doesn't have an end, or an end-game.

    There has been an evolution towards an actual end-game scenario. And in many ways, it's cool, In many ways it's bad as well.
    There was an end game once, twice, and a third time. And each time, the game evolved to create a situation where a new "end-game" was needed.

    MajorMal and the team have a daunting task, with less resources than any other time in this game's history. We as a player base can help with them righting the ship, mainly by being supportive, with constructive feedback. (not flames)

    Maybe we should pull in the rein's, and try to enjoy what we have. For those not around, we went almost 2 years with no new content. And the majority of players stuck it out, or at least kept an interest. This recent mentality of give me the ultimate or you suckk has caused more rifts than Ive ever seen.

    For us (player base) there is no right or wrong, but how we present ourselves, is a direct correlation to how we perceive this game should be.

    *question- how come airships, are the only ship ever/ anywhere/ in rl or game, that doesn't have turbulence/ rough seas etc...* HHMMMM
    I've been reading and posting on Turbine game forums since 1999 with the Asheron's Call Crossroads of Dereth forums. The pattern is always the same. I think overall the forums are more civilized now. That could be because the average gamer is a little older, better moderation, or online social etiquette has improved ever so slightly. I know some people have written their thesis papers on MMO forums.

    Regardless of the trends, I think the pattern is usually people posting about what would make their game more fun or what makes it less fun. Everyone has a different perspective and people will always disagree because of that. The only difference is how constructive we make our suggestions and how civilized we are when we disagree.
    Ghallanda: Save the newbie, save the world.

  15. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MuleAxe View Post
    Perhaps not a direct reply to what you are saying and asking, but there are so many differences between the mind-set of a D&D player, and one that has only played the video game. The main one, IMHO, is that a D&D player takes things as they come, and creates ways to overcome obstacles that are thrown at them. Having an “end game” would signify the typical end of a campaign; whereas the end would ultimately result in a new beginning.
    This is perhaps the most salient description of how I and my guild feel about the game. We are all old (in both game experience and chronologically) D&D players. When the DM (Turbine) changes something we adapt. Sure we may grouse a bit, but we adapt because the alternative is to be unhappy and without a place to play together.

    As for the Forums... Pan metron ariston
    The newest computer can merely compound, at speed, the oldest problem in the relations between human beings, and in the end the communicator will be confronted with the old problem, of what to say and how to say it. - Edward R. Murrow (1964)

  16. #16
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,707

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MuleAxe View Post
    Perhaps not a direct reply to what you are saying and asking, but there are so many differences between the mind-set of a D&D player, and one that has only played the video game. The main one, IMHO, is that a D&D player takes things as they come, and creates ways to overcome obstacles that are thrown at them. Having an “end game” would signify the typical end of a campaign; whereas the end would ultimately result in a new beginning.

    Again, just my opinion, but it seems to me, the divide is created by the dichotomy that has resulted from taking a product based on (and in many ways modeled from) a fluid, flexible, and creative social interaction, and converting it into something much less fluid, flexible, and creative. D&D attracts a certain type of person, and MMO”s attract another; if one loves the other with a passion, then there is one type of conflict that results; not bad, necessarily, but one that is spawned from differing opinions. If you have the MMO player that doesn’t know, or respect the D&D experience and lore, then there’s a caustic divide created. The D&D player needed to work as part of a team to overcome the challenges thrown at them, where the MMO player who doesn't understand or hasn't experienced the journeys into an imaginative world finds it easy to harshly criticize others, purely based on a video game experience.

    Turbine has the daunting task of trying to make everyone happy, while at the same time creating a profitable product.

    My opinion? We might have fewer problems if people worry less about the “end game”, and more about the experiences the game creates. Learn what D&D is, it’s great past, the creativity and imagination that was involved in creating a campaign, and the pure enjoyment of playing the game.
    I don't get where's the hate against "end game" coming from in this game. However people want to paint end gamers as elitists jerks who doesn't enjoy the game, the real difference in between them and "others" is that they don't wanna keep TRing over and over and over and over again non stop. How does that make them enjoy the game less?

    This is cracking me up. That good old misconception that being good at games = no life, no fun, etc. Or in this game, simply looking for something else than chain TRing = no life, no fun?

    Crazy.
    Last edited by Azarddoze; 06-18-2014 at 01:27 PM.
    Kal Vas Flam... Corp Por... Corp Por

    ...And then there was silence

  17. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Azarddoze View Post
    This is cracking me up. That good old misconception that being good at games = no life, no fun, etc. Or in this game, simply looking for something else than chain TRing = no life, no fun?
    I don't see MuleAxe's comment as implying that in the least. I read it more as the those who enjoyed the progenitor of this game might have a different outlook on the whole experience than those who haven't had much, if any, experience with D&D but are consummate MMO/video game players. Those two sets view things differently, have varied objectives and, perhaps, express themselves in opposing ways.
    The newest computer can merely compound, at speed, the oldest problem in the relations between human beings, and in the end the communicator will be confronted with the old problem, of what to say and how to say it. - Edward R. Murrow (1964)

  18. #18
    2015 DDO Players Council
    Ravenguard Press
    MuleAxe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    The Raven
    Posts
    728

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Azarddoze View Post
    I don't get where's the hate against "end game" coming from in this game. However people want to paint end gamers as elitists jerks who doesn't enjoy the game, the real difference in between them and "others" is that they don't wanna keep TRing over and over and over and over again non stop. How does that make them enjoy the game less?

    This is cracking me up. That good old misconception that being good at games = no life, no fun, etc. Or in this game, simply looking for something else than chain TRing = no life, no fun?

    Crazy.
    It's more the need to create an end game mentality, than playing high level content. The perception of some, that others have to be the best, creates a divide. The idea that the "end game" is that pinnacle point at which one needs to be in order to feel some sort of achievement or "in-game self worth". I'm not advocating an idea that either side is right or wrong, I'm merely trying to describe, and perhaps add a slight prognostication of what might alleviate some bitterness from one group to another.
    `````````````````````````````````````````````````` ````````````````````````````
    MuleAxe | Occidere| MuleRaptor | MuleFort | MuleParts

    M O N A R C H
    of Thelanis

  19. #19
    Community Member painkiller3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    480

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Greeka View Post
    People **** and moan about everything they can because they feel that their opinion is valid and meaningful when the majority of the time it is not. They feel the louder they shout the more important they become because people are forced to hear them and when none responds to any of this that everyone thinks and feels just like they do. We have a player council now, and I am curious why they have not spoke about what they can since the formation of this.

    How about giving some feedback how the player's may of directed the direction of the new content based on input they had and feedback related to any play testing they did and why they choose to try and direct in the way they did or why they felt their feedback was meaningful in this process. It is at least 6 months into the first council's term with a new council coming in 6 months or less, if you feel your opinion and feedback and drive the game in a better direction then start campaigning now to help improve the life of all your fellow gamers from all worlds here.

    One of the main reasons I stopped coming to the forums is all the negativity and general *****iness of people who feel they are entitled to have their rants and opinions listened to. Hell what I am saying here is meaningless as well and can be ignored if you so choose. Most of all this is a game to be played for ones enjoyment. Don't like it, go play somewhere else where you feel you are right.
    agreed re: feedback from players council...i hope it doesn't turn into Mournland where they can't/won't say anything until they're off the council. there has been some communication, but more is better!!!1!!1!!

  20. #20
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,707

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sebastianosmith View Post
    I don't see MuleAxe's comment as implying that in the least. I read it more as the those who enjoyed the progenitor of this game might have a different outlook on the whole experience than those who haven't had much, if any, experience with D&D but are consummate MMO/video game players. Those two sets view things differently, have varied objectives and, perhaps, express themselves in opposing ways.
    Agree. And I actually puked all the hate in one place instead of multi quoting (hate to do that). That part wasn't directed to him.

    There's a big difference between end gamers, elitists, power gamers, etc...

    I understand the variety of approches, goals, playstyles, incentives, (been everything at different points) etc., but more than often I feel like the other side (casual masses) isn't doing any effort at all to understand those differences. They've never been on the other side of the fence. And the misconception keeps going, putting everyone without a pure casual way of playing the game into the same baskets. Like if they don't enjoy the game.

    To each their own motivations. The "teenager playing 8h+ a day" represents such a small % of the "end gamers / elitists / powergamers", yet it still how pretty much all of them are being painted.

    Anyways, it's not about to change.

    Edit: Having a D&D background doesn't make one more relaxed, calm or patient. It's because those people are like that in the first place that they enjoy it. News flash, some non-D&D players also possess those traits.
    Last edited by Azarddoze; 06-18-2014 at 01:45 PM.
    Kal Vas Flam... Corp Por... Corp Por

    ...And then there was silence

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload