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  1. #1
    Community Member Grynberg's Avatar
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    Default Druid wolf form weapon dice multipliers

    I've been trying to figure out what damage multipliers apply in wolf form and what doesn't.
    Lets say I have a 9drd/6mnk/5x for a character and I'm wearing a level 20 vorpal shortsword (it has +1.0[W] as epic weapon, +0.5[W] from vorpal and I'm centered with ninja spy).

    What I have tested out so far are:
    Vorpal from weapon +0.5[W]
    Ship buff +0.25[W]

    What I need to know about are:
    Legendary Dreadnaught Improved power attack +0.5[W]
    PL: Disciple of Fist +0.5[W]
    Reinforced Fists item +0.5[W]
    Grandmaster of flowers Dance of Flowers +1.5[W]
    Grandmaster of flowers Fire stance +0.75[W]
    4 monk dice increase +0.5[W]
    Epic weapon +1.0[W]

    So my question is - what applies in wolf form and what doesnt. I'm relatively sure most of the monk bonuses apply, I haven't tested them out yet though.

    EDIT: I don't actually have the build mentioned yet, I'm just trying to figure out what works and what doesnt
    Last edited by Grynberg; 06-18-2014 at 04:34 AM.
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  2. #2
    Euro-Founder and Keeper Refugee Dexraven's Avatar
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    As far as i can remember, its everything, i'm just not 100% on the weapon's base [w] but i think it does.

    should be that anything that affects a monk will affect the wolf
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  3. #3
    Community Member Grynberg's Avatar
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    PL: Disciple of Fist +0.5[W]
    Reinforced Fists item +0.5[W]

    So these two stack and apply separately?
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  4. #4
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    Vorpal from weapon +0.5[W] - no
    Ship buff +0.25[W] - yes

    What I need to know about are:
    Legendary Dreadnaught Improved power attack +0.5[W] - unsure, says weapons
    PL: Disciple of Fist +0.5[W] - yes
    Reinforced Fists item +0.5[W] - yes
    Grandmaster of flowers Dance of Flowers +1.5[W] - yes
    Grandmaster of flowers Fire stance +0.75[W] - yes
    4 monk dice increase +0.5[W] - yes
    Epic weapon +1.0[W] - no

    If it raises monk unarmed, it raises wolf.

  5. #5
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    It's about figuring out how +[w] effects are prioritized:

    In animal form Weapons > Wolf base damage > Unarmed.

    This is the same prioritization for any effect that grants +[w] that applies to weapons, eg. A Dance of flowers, Improved power attack
    EG: if you're in wolf form and someone casts deadlyweapons:
    • with a weapon equipped your weapon gains +1[w] but your wolf base damage is unaffected.
    • With nothing equipped your animal base damage is increased by +1[w]
    • With handwraps equipped your animal base damage is increased by +1[w]



    Because bonuses like Reinforced fists, monk pastlife, monk die steps (etc.) do not boost weapons they have no effect on any weapons that are equipped, and because the weapons are of higher priority than your animal base damage, having weapons equipped prevents you from benefiting from these types of buffs. But if you have either nothing or handwraps equipped, because animal form base damage takes priority over unarmed base damage, these types of buffs will boost the [w] of your animal form.

    Eg. the innate die step monks get every 4 levels:
    • with a weapon equipped you get no benefit.
    • with nothing equipped your animal base damage is increased
    • with handwraps equipped your animal base damage is increased




    Hope that helps with clarity.
    Last edited by fTdOmen; 06-18-2014 at 10:46 AM.

  6. #6
    Community Member Grynberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fTdOmen View Post
    Because bonuses like Reinforced fists, monk pastlife, monk die steps (etc.) do not boost weapons they have no effect on the weapons that are equipped. But because animal form base damage takes priority over unarmed base damage, they will always boost the [w] of your animal form.


    Hope that helps with clarity.
    Humm. Your last paragraph was very confusing... are you saying that reinforced fists are not applied to weapons but when you go to wolf form you get the bonuses?


    Anyway, I did some testing and aparently paragon/epic weapons are added to wolf damage dice.
    So is vorpal so epic +1.0[W] vorpal +0.5[W] are definetly added to the dice. I'm getting 2.5[W] without any other buffs right now.
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  7. #7
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    tried to edit it for more clarity.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grynberg View Post
    Humm. Your last paragraph was very confusing... are you saying that reinforced fists are not applied to weapons but when you go to wolf form you get the bonuses?


    Anyway, I did some testing and aparently paragon/epic weapons are added to wolf damage dice.
    So is vorpal so epic +1.0[W] vorpal +0.5[W] are definetly added to the dice. I'm getting 2.5[W] without any other buffs right now.
    I'll have to test this. I tested on a pure druid before and they didn't stack - granted they may work because of monk?

    I did bug report it so maybe a stealth fix. Just to be sure you were not using handwraps but a weapon - short sword correct?
    Last edited by Synthetic; 06-18-2014 at 11:31 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grynberg View Post
    I've been trying to figure out what damage multipliers apply in wolf form and what doesn't.
    Lets say I have a 9drd/6mnk/5x for a character and I'm wearing a level 20 vorpal shortsword (it has +1.0[W] as epic weapon, +0.5[W] from vorpal and I'm centered with ninja spy).

    What I have tested out so far are:
    Vorpal from weapon +0.5[W]
    Ship buff +0.25[W]

    What I need to know about are:
    Legendary Dreadnaught Improved power attack +0.5[W]
    PL: Disciple of Fist +0.5[W]
    Reinforced Fists item +0.5[W]
    Grandmaster of flowers Dance of Flowers +1.5[W]
    Grandmaster of flowers Fire stance +0.75[W]
    4 monk dice increase +0.5[W]
    Epic weapon +1.0[W]

    So my question is - what applies in wolf form and what doesnt. I'm relatively sure most of the monk bonuses apply, I haven't tested them out yet though.

    EDIT: I don't actually have the build mentioned yet, I'm just trying to figure out what works and what doesnt
    The answers are generally yes if you are fighting with handwraps with monk levels, and no otherwise. Except vorpal I think is always no, and reinforced fists is always yes. I might be wrong on reinforced fists, I rarely use the items. I don't have the PL so don't know about it.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 06-18-2014 at 02:09 PM.

  10. #10
    Community Member Grynberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    The answers are generally yes if you are fighting with handwraps with monk levels, and no otherwise. Except vorpal I think is always no, and reinforced fists is always yes. I might be wrong on reinforced fists, I rarely use the items. I don't have the PL so don't know about it.
    Funny thing, when I posted this I was only sure about 1 thing - vorpal

    I have level 16 vorpal wraps and vorpal definetly increases wolf damage die by 0.5[W]. Same goes for paragon bonus from the weapons. I'm going to try and pile all those damage bonuses on my wolf next life.

    Have I missed any die increase anyone knows of?
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grynberg View Post
    Funny thing, when I posted this I was only sure about 1 thing - vorpal

    I have level 16 vorpal wraps and vorpal definetly increases wolf damage die by 0.5[W]. Same goes for paragon bonus from the weapons. I'm going to try and pile all those damage bonuses on my wolf next life.

    Have I missed any die increase anyone knows of?
    Weird I tested it and you don't get epic or paragon bonuses while wielding a weapon. You do get it with wraps even on a pure druid.

  12. #12
    Community Member Grynberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synthetic View Post
    Weird I tested it and you don't get epic or paragon bonuses while wielding a weapon. You do get it with wraps even on a pure druid.
    Ah my bad. I did ask about weapon in the beginning and I forgot about it. Thanks for the update, i'll ditch the shortswords and go with wraps. Seems that way I'll get all the bonuses to pump my unarmed damage dice to over 5[W].

    EDIT: So recapping what we have found out

    When in wolf form and wearing weapons/wraps or being unarmed:
    Vorpal from weapon +0.5[W] - Weapons: no, Wraps: yes, Unarmed: N/A
    Ship buff +0.25[W] - Everything: yes
    Legendary Dreadnaught Improved power attack - +0.5[W] Everything: yes
    PL: Disciple of Fist +0.5[W] - Weapons: no, Wraps/Unarmed: yes
    Reinforced Fists item +0.5[W] - Weapons: no, Wraps/Unarmed: yes
    Grandmaster of flowers Dance of Flowers +1.5[W] - Everything: yes
    Grandmaster of flowers Fire stance +0.75[W] - Everything: yes
    4 monk dice increase +0.5[W] - Weapons: no, Wraps/Unarmed: yes
    Epic weapon +1.0[W] - Weapons: no, Wraps: yes, Unarmed: N/A

    Did I got everything right?
    Last edited by Grynberg; 06-19-2014 at 08:21 AM.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grynberg View Post
    Ah my bad. I did ask about weapon in the beginning and I forgot about it. Thanks for the update, i'll ditch the shortswords and go with wraps. Seems that way I'll get all the bonuses to pump my unarmed damage dice to over 5[W].

    EDIT: So recapping what we have found out

    When in wolf form and wearing weapons/wraps or being unarmed:
    Vorpal from weapon +0.5[W] - Weapons: no, Wraps: yes, Unarmed: N/A
    Ship buff +0.25[W] - Everything: yes
    Legendary Dreadnaught Improved power attack - +0.5[W] Everything: yes
    PL: Disciple of Fist +0.5[W] - Weapons: no, Wraps/Unarmed: yes
    Reinforced Fists item +0.5[W] - Weapons: no, Wraps/Unarmed: yes
    Grandmaster of flowers Dance of Flowers +1.5[W] - Everything: yes
    Grandmaster of flowers Fire stance +0.75[W] - Everything: yes
    4 monk dice increase +0.5[W] - Weapons: no, Wraps/Unarmed: yes
    Epic weapon +1.0[W] - Weapons: no, Wraps: yes, Unarmed: N/A

    Did I got everything right?
    If you're a monk what is the base weapon damage here? like if I'm winter wolf using wraps does reinforced fists make it 1.5[1d10] or is it whatever my monk damage is?

  14. #14
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Base winter wolf [W] is 1d10, regardless of what's equipped. There was a bug when druids first came out which overrode that with d6 from monk unarmed, so you may see old forum posts mention that; but that got patched ages ago.
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Base winter wolf [W] is 1d10, regardless of what's equipped. There was a bug when druids first came out which overrode that with d6 from monk unarmed, so you may see old forum posts mention that; but that got patched ages ago.
    That is awesome.

    This is vaguely on topic since I have you here. Do the twf feats work with wolf form? Do the swf feats work with it? Do monk die increases effect wolf damage then?

    I've found conflicting and buggy responses. I'm currently considering a Druid9/Monk9/Fgt2 build, but it gets a lot worse if twf doesn't work.

  16. #16
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aziraphale88 View Post
    That is awesome.

    This is vaguely on topic since I have you here. Do the twf feats work with wolf form? Do the swf feats work with it? Do monk die increases effect wolf damage then?

    I've found conflicting and buggy responses. I'm currently considering a Druid9/Monk9/Fgt2 build, but it gets a lot worse if twf doesn't work.
    If you wear handwraps monk die steps will boost the wolf unarmed die steps, if you use weapons you stick with the base animal form dice. That said if you're two weapon fighting, you're most likely going to be better off with a pair of shortswords in order to obtain the perks from your off hand weapon. Googling pastlifenmo may help you out somewhat.

    SWF works in animal form
    TWF works in animal form
    To get both to work requires picking up SWF first & then taking 2 ranger levels to get auto granted TWF, as you cannot manually take the TWF feat after selecting SWF or vice versa.
    SWF / Natural fighting / Twf can all work in conjunction with each other too if you work out how to squeeze all the feats in.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by fTdOmen View Post
    If you wear handwraps monk die steps will boost the wolf unarmed die steps, if you use weapons you stick with the base animal form dice. That said if you're two weapon fighting, you're most likely going to be better off with a pair of shortswords in order to obtain the perks from your off hand weapon. Googling pastlifenmo may help you out somewhat.

    SWF works in animal form
    TWF works in animal form
    To get both to work requires picking up SWF first & then taking 2 ranger levels to get auto granted TWF, as you cannot manually take the TWF feat after selecting SWF or vice versa.
    SWF / Natural fighting / Twf can all work in conjunction with each other too if you work out how to squeeze all the feats in.
    My understanding was that only off-hand passive stuff like seeker works with animal forms? Do things like shock or lightning strike work?

  18. #18
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aziraphale88 View Post
    My understanding was that only off-hand passive stuff like seeker works with animal forms? Do things like shock or lightning strike work?
    Passives is correct, but there are some pretty awesome options for passives that outshine what you'll gain wearing handwraps with only 9monk levels.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by fTdOmen View Post
    If you wear handwraps monk die steps will boost the wolf unarmed die steps, if you use weapons you stick with the base animal form dice. That said if you're two weapon fighting, you're most likely going to be better off with a pair of shortswords in order to obtain the perks from your off hand weapon. Googling pastlifenmo may help you out somewhat.

    SWF works in animal form
    TWF works in animal form
    To get both to work requires picking up SWF first & then taking 2 ranger levels to get auto granted TWF, as you cannot manually take the TWF feat after selecting SWF or vice versa.
    SWF / Natural fighting / Twf can all work in conjunction with each other too if you work out how to squeeze all the feats in.
    now that I think about it, don't short swords break my druidic oath?

  20. #20
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aziraphale88 View Post
    now that I think about it, don't short swords break my druidic oath?
    Nope: metal armor & shields are forbidden to druids; metal weapons are not, thankfully.
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