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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krimleingod View Post
    Hmm, so basically what you're saying is, with this build, I'm going to need 2 sets, one is my combat set, and one is my trap set, and I'm going to have to upgrade the trap set very regularly so that it always has the highest stats I can use, and if that's true, how do I know when I need to upgrade, is it every level, or every 5 levels, or how does that work? And also, you're saying I'm just going to max out my saves so that I can run into traps, not die, then search and disable them without having to invest the points into spot.
    First life trappers usually do well to keep checking the auction house and brokers for better trap gear at every turn, yes. In the "optimal" case you'd upgrade every 2 levels, to "clean" +skill items with Masterful Craftmanship and... well, you're not likely to actually find many such in time for your leveling. Or be always able to afford them in the auction house.

    Yes, it is sort of annoying.

    Then again, you don't actually absolutely need the very best items that are theoretically possible, well, ... not until level 25 or so quests on Epic Elite anyway. With a decent Int, +Int item, and APs put into trap-related enhancements and skill boost (skill boost is either Mechanic tier 2, Deepwood Stalker tier 2, or Human racial), you should be able to make do with your level -2 trap skill items most of the time until the mid-teen levels at least. And that is in Elite difficulty quests; if you're content with running just Hard, you need even less.


    Bow-using rangers benefit quite a bit from Spot anyway, so they can target enemies reliably from further out, especially hard-to-see enemies such as mephits... and enemy rogues.



    Quote Originally Posted by Krimleingod View Post
    Now if all of the above holds true, if my lady is a druid with 18 wisdom, and she maxes spot each time she levels up, could she not lead us so that she stumbles onto the traps and see's them before we trigger them, and then i could disarm them with my intelligence, or would that not be a viable strategy?
    ... well, yes, it should be workable. Spot is a class skill for druids too, after all.
    Last edited by mna; 06-18-2014 at 01:41 PM.
    No longer completely f2p as of November 2014. Father of 3 more DDO players so far (I do have more children than that).

  2. #22
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    I’ve always done fine with 12 int, although I suppose 14 would be a safer bet, it’s just going to mean sacrificing another stat, mebbe 1 point of con. You’ll be able to max all the relevant skills with even 12 int, as spot is a class skill for monks, rangers, and rogues.

    On the note of full trappers, rogues have skill mastery to help boost their skills a bit, and full arties are nearly always int-builds, meaning they will have a high enough int to offset any lack of gear.

    Yes, you’ll have evasion as a ranger, the multiclass isn’t for the triple-redundant evasion, but for the monk stances, dps, and sheer survivability, along with the boost to all three saves.

    I don’t mean that you’ll always be running headfirst into traps, but it is nearly impossible for a first timer to always stop in time, even if you go meticulously slow. With the level of damage from elite traps, that one slip-up can be instant death, even in heroic content. DDO has an abundance of traps, and it is in a great many number of quests, and also come in varying forms. You’ll learn them as you come across them, but a good reflex save and evasion will help you survive them and give you a bit more breathing room.

  3. #23
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    Ahaha, well you both have valid points, and I don't know which is the best route, whether its 12 int, 14 int, or otherwise, but you two talking about it at least brings different perspectives to the table, and I'm sure will aid in creating the right build.

    So, I thank you both for the input thus far.

  4. #24
    Community Member PsychoBlonde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krimleingod View Post
    Hmm, so basically what you're saying is, with this build, I'm going to need 2 sets, one is my combat set, and one is my trap set, and I'm going to have to upgrade the trap set very regularly so that it always has the highest stats I can use, and if that's true, how do I know when I need to upgrade, is it every level, or every 5 levels, or how does that work? And also, you're saying I'm just going to max out my saves so that I can run into traps, not die, then search and disable them without having to invest the points into spot.

    Now if all of the above holds true, if my lady is a druid with 18 wisdom, and she maxes spot each time she levels up, could she not lead us so that she stumbles onto the traps and see's them before we trigger them, and then i could disarm them with my intelligence, or would that not be a viable strategy?
    It's generally possible to fit a spot item into your always-on gear set on a rogue so you can at least spot the traps coming up on them. Your accuracy in doing this depends a LOT on how well YOU pay attention, though, and it's ALWAYS good to have lots of reflex to back it up. Many traps require you to pass through them or even STAND IN THEM to disarm them and doing this without a good reflex save and evasion can be nigh-impossible on elite.

    As for when to upgrade your items . . . you want a +item equal to your level if at all possible. Non-epic items cap out at around +15, but there are items out there that offer stacking bonuses (insightful, enhancement). These are generally raid loot, though, so getting them takes time and effort and you will need to group with people to get the raids done. Here's a list of some things to get as soon as you can:

    • Troubleshooter's set. This can be gotten in Korthos by doing the full chain all the way through Misery's Peak. They give +3 to basically all your major rogue skills and should last you until you're about level 5 or so.
    • Goggles of Time-Sensing. These are low-level search/spot goggles that also give you wisdom and a haste clickie. They can be gotten in the Chronoscope raid which is level 6. However, this is a VERY difficult raid at level and you will probably need a LOT of help from experienced people to get it done successfully. IIRC you get the goggles out of the end reward, so it might require more than one run to get them, but it is WELL worth having them for TR'ing later even if you pass their usefulness stage.
    • The Utility Vest from the Phiarlan Carnival chain gives you disable device, open lock AND dexterity. Get one for TRing even if you level past it before you acquire it.
    • Goggles of Perception from the Tempest Spine raid (level 10) give you +10 search and +10 spot.
    • The Snakeskin Vest from Frame Work gives +10 search and +10 spot.[
    • Gloves of Gnoll Hide from Fleshmaker's Laboratory give +13 open lock and +13 disable device.
    • The Spare Hand from Cannith Challenges gives + open lock and + disable device. This is ESPECIALLY useful because you can make multiple different versions of this for different levels . . . it starts out at +5 and winds up at +15. It also has some other VERY nice bonuses on it.
    • When the Smuggler's Cove event is running drop EVERYTHING and go RUN it (and it'll probably be SOON) until you have made yourself a Treasure Hunter's Spyglass of every level that's available. Don't bother upgrading anything but the epic version, though. You can also make a Pirate Hat with some nice leveling bonuses on it. Once you have this and the Spare Hand you can pretty much throw out your other trapping items--you won't need them any more. Just use the highest-level spare hand and spyglass you can from levels 4-20.
    • If you plan on doing epics you absolutely need to run Haunted Halls of Eveningstar until you get a Manual of Stealthy Pilfering. It has ALL of your rogue stuff on it except for Search. This item will save you a TON of slots.


    I have two completionist characters--one an epic elite super-trapper and one an epic elite super-druid CC/Nuker. These two toons together are a POWERHOUSE. I wish I could run both of them in the same party. So, I'm going to make some suggestions now that probably aren't in your original ideas but think about them *very* seriously because I have literally run these characters to the point of absurdity.

    My super-trapper is a 12 rogue/6 monk/2 paladin dwarf. Here's how you arrange her stats on a 32-point build:

    Strength 12 (4 points)
    Dex 15 (8 points)
    Con 16 (6 points)
    Int 14 (6 points)
    Wis 14 (6 points)
    Cha 8 (2 points)

    Her levels go in this order:

    1 Rogue
    2 Paladin
    3 Paladin
    4-9 Monk (there will be a hiatus here where you will find it difficult to trap, but this is also the level where traps are the least problem)
    Rest Rogue

    Her feats (on a non-completionist build):

    1 Two-Weapon Fighting
    3 Dodge
    Monk 1 Stunning Fist
    Monk 2 Toughness
    6 Mobility
    Monk 6 Precision
    9 Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (you need a 17 base dex to get this, which means you ALSO need to either put 2 level-up points into dexterity OR get a +2 tome by this level)
    12 Master of Forms
    15 Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
    18 Grandmaster of Forms
    21 Improved Sneak Attack (you need a 21 base dex to get this, which means you need to get a tome to raise your base dex--if you don't feel like getting one skip this feat and get something else that looks useful like another toughness feat)
    24 Epic Toughness (you need a 21 base con to get this so you need a tome, again, otherwise just take another regular Toughness)
    26 Tactician (you will need to max out one martial destiny to get this, otherwise, get toughness)
    27 Blinding Speed or Watchful Eye (get Blinding Speed unless you can find a good permanent alacrity item like the Goatskin Boots or Jorgundal's Collar)
    28 Perfect Two-weapon fighting (you will need to max out 2 primal destinies to get this, otherwise, more toughness)

    Skills: The best way to level your skills and absolutely maximize their usefulness is to NEVER put points in ANYTHING that isn't a CLASS SKILL for the level you're taking. At level 1 you must absolutely max out: Use Magic Device, Search, Spot, Disable Device, Open Lock, Hide, Move Silently. That's the bare minimum. Other useful things to put points in are Tumble (don't put more than a single point in, though), Balance, Bluff, Diplomacy, and Jump.

    Your skill points from your paladin levels should be used to max out Concentration. Monk skill points should go toward Spot, Concentration, Hide, Move Silently, and Diplomacy. When you start taking rogue again start maxing out Use Magic Device, Search, Spot, Disable Device, Open Lock, Hide, and Move Silently again. Any leftover points can go toward Bluff and Diplomacy. You should arrive at level 20 with your important rogue skills fully maximized.

    Your primary enhancement tree should be Ninja Spy, with a focus on getting the extra Sneak Attack, the Tier 4 ability that gives you extra damage vs. helpless enemies, and the third core ability that lets you make yourself invisible and incorporeal. Secondary tree should be Mechanic--go far enough up to get Wand and Scroll mastery maxxed out at the VERY minimum, but you can go a tad bit further and get the Improved Traps ability which gives you more range to notice traps. It helps. Third tree should be Shintao--get the tier 1 ability that gives you more offhand attack procs and the tier 2 ability that gives you more PRR when you're in earth stance. You can also pick up a few of the core abilities for some extra healing amp and some minor DR bypass. You should get ALL the dwarf core abilities which will also let you get the Tier 2 ability that gives you +tactics DC's. This character lives and dies by Stunning Fist so do everything you can to max that out--any level-up points that you don't need for getting the requirements for your epic feats should go into wisdom. If you get big tomes this can be basically ALL of your level-up points, which REALLY helps. You want to aim for a 70 stunning DC for the very highest-level content. It's not easy to get, but every little bit helps. I also recommend taking enough of the Stalwart Defender tree to get the extra lay on hands . . . a quick heal (even for a small amount) can save your bacon in an emergency. Assassin, even though it seems cool, really isn't worth putting points into for this build. I also recommend spending 4 points in Thief Acrobat as this is the cheapest way to get sneak speed and speed while sneaking is your friend. DO NOT buy the sneak speed on Ninja spy it costs TWICE AS MUCH for some stupid reason.

    Epic Destiny is kind of up to you--there are SEVERAL that work VERY well with this build. Unyielding Sentinel, Divine Crusader, Grandmaster of Flowers, Shadowdancer, and Fury of the Wild are all excellent choices. I recommend leveling ALL of the destinies and switching based on the content you're doing to really maximize your effectiveness. Grandmaster will get you the best stunning DC's. Shadowdancer and/or Fury are best for skills--Shadowdancer lets you have Dimension Door so is VERY useful for some content. Sentinel is best for when you need to be the tankiest. Crusader helps for dealing with tons of trash mobs.

    You will spend most of your time in Ultimate earth Stance but don't forget that Ocean Stance boosts your saving throws for when you need those to be super-high. Don't neglect getting a +cha item and tome as this will help raise your saves even more.

    Druid in following post.
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  5. #25
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    For an Uber-Druid I actually recommend getting a small splash. The druid capstone is poo and you can get a LOT out of a splash, either 3 monk or 2 bard/1 wizard. I know the bard/wizard sounds INSANE but it is actually SPECTACULAR--you get a huge chunk of extra spell points, bonus HP, bonus spell crit, and some bonus spellpower. 3 monk is good for minor evasion and also because you can go far enough up Henshin Mystic and Ninja Spy to get an extra +2 wis (one point from each of them). Henshin and Spy *both* have better stuff for a caster druid than the druid animal form tree. In particular Ninja spy can get you some + dodge and + reflex save which REALLY REALLY HELP.

    Caster druid LIVES AND DIES by their Earthquake DC. Spell damage is valuable--you will want fire, cold, electric, light, and healing spellpower by the time you're done--but earthquake DC is the be-all, end-all of this build. Stats should look like this on a 32 point build:

    Str 8
    Dex 10
    Con 16 (10 points)
    Int 12 (4 points)
    Wis 18 (16 points)
    Cha 8

    Play a human. Level as a druid until you get Firewall and run primarily fire-focused until epic levels. You can take your splashes any time after you get Firewall (level 9), it doesn't really matter. Feats should look like this:

    Human Toughness
    1 Maximize Spell
    3 Mental Toughness
    6 Spell Focus: Evocation
    9 Improved Mental Toughness
    12 Quicken Spell
    15 Empower Spell
    18 Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
    21 Epic Toughness (21 con so you'll probably need a tome)
    24 Epic Mental Toughness
    27 Epic Spell Focus: Evocation

    Monk 1 Toughness
    Monk 2 Either Toughness again or Resilience
    If you take Monk levels turn that Human feat into either Empower Healing Spell or Enlarge Spell.

    Your primary tree will be Season's Herald (for obvious reasons). Don't put TOO Much into the human racial tree--a boost and a +1 wis can be useful, but don't overdo it. Like I said it can be useful to put points in Henshin, Ninja spy, or get some of the low-tier abilities from Bard and Wizard that give you extra SP and spell crit and so forth.

    The toughest challenge of playing a druid revolves around conserving your spell points. They're a slow-killer class . . . they do excellent CC with earthquake and good damage over time with firewall/body of the sun/ice storm, but their single-target hits aren't that big. Use primarily spell-like abilities from the Season's Herald tree for your single-target damage. Word of Balance is the big one, of course, but Call Lightning, Creeping cold, and even Produce Flame are all quite useful. Make sure you pick up the sunburst SLA from the core abilities, too, but skip Storm of Vengeance, the cooldown on that one is too dang long.

    You should max out the Spellcraft, Heal, and Concentration skills at a minimum. Unfortunately all the other skills that are useful to a druid are cross-class, but Use Magic Device helps if only for raise scrolls (druids can raise people from the dead but the casting time is appalling, scrolls get people up quickly). A little Tumble, Jump, and Balance are also quite useful.
    Last edited by PsychoBlonde; 06-18-2014 at 02:54 PM.
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  6. #26
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    Looks like that Rog/mnk/pal is laid out for a completionist character, which is completely fine. However, the OP won’t have the past lives or items or even tomes to back up a build like yours. I understand that the bulk of your damage comes from Sneak Attack, but 12 strength on what is arguably a strength character with little to no gear is a bad idea, not to mention the problem of undead, oozes, constructs and things that won’t take sneak attack damage or stuns.

    Personally, I can’t run without a ranged option, especially given the power of a Manyshot, but that’s a matter of preference. No cleave and Great cleave does pose some problems of dealing with clusters of mobs though.

    Also, 8 Charisma on a paladin without any items or tomes means the OP probably won’t get much use out of it. I’m going to assume your level-ups are in wis For the stunning DC’s, meaning without tomes and a +6 item, the OP is looking at a 14 cha, basically a +2 to saves for a 2 level tradeoff.

    Final thing, 12 str means no power attack which is quite a loss in DPS.

  7. #27
    Community Member PsychoBlonde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ironegrip View Post
    Looks like that Rog/mnk/pal is laid out for a completionist character, which is completely fine. However, the OP won’t have the past lives or items or even tomes to back up a build like yours. I understand that the bulk of your damage comes from Sneak Attack, but 12 strength on what is arguably a strength character with little to no gear is a bad idea, not to mention the problem of undead, oozes, constructs and things that won’t take sneak attack damage or stuns.

    Personally, I can’t run without a ranged option, especially given the power of a Manyshot, but that’s a matter of preference. No cleave and Great cleave does pose some problems of dealing with clusters of mobs though.

    Also, 8 Charisma on a paladin without any items or tomes means the OP probably won’t get much use out of it. I’m going to assume your level-ups are in wis For the stunning DC’s, meaning without tomes and a +6 item, the OP is looking at a 14 cha, basically a +2 to saves for a 2 level tradeoff.

    Final thing, 12 str means no power attack which is quite a loss in DPS.
    It's only 5 damage per hit on a handwraps build. Not that big a deal when your average damage is between 180 and 200 on a stunned foe--not including sneak attack. Sheer DPS is not as important at endgame as STAYING ALIVE in order to do ANY damage. If you want to do traps well you have to make some concessions, too, and I've found this to be the best way to maintain survivability, have good solid damage, AND do ALL the traps. Having a decent bluff and hide/move silently also makes the whole "groups of mobs" considerations kind of laughable. Sneak past what you don't have to kill, bluff what you HAVE to kill, stun it, kill it, next mob. Plus, he's going to be running with a druid, making trash cleanup a joke.

    I was running this build long before I had completionist--before there were *even epic levels*. It's solid regardless and you REALLY don't need power attack. I did a couple of lives on this character as a monkcher and I actually like this build BETTER.

    Also assuming a +6 item as the max you can get is laughable. You can get up to +4 or +5 tomes relatively easily and +8 items are standard for epic. Paladin also gets you some nice stuff for epics like access to spell points (rejuve cocoon), lay on hands, etc. There's really nothing in either monk or rogue that's worth taking above 6 and 12 for this build, so the paladin makes a nice icing on the cake.
    Last edited by PsychoBlonde; 06-18-2014 at 04:13 PM.
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  8. #28
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    I have never said that a +6 item is the max. Please don't put words in my mouth. I assume a +6 for the majority of the game, because as a first lifer with no twink gear, for most of those early levels, the OP will not have even a +6 item, much less +4 or +5 tomes. Not everyone will want to drop DDO points for high tier stat tomes, which come at over 1k points each.

    In terms of putting out 180-200 per hit, I hope you're not suggesting a 12 str toon with no tomes or gear will approach anything close to that level of DPS, and stuns certainly wont work on the huge number of undead, constructs, oozes, and elementals in the game, not to mention any incorporeals etc. I've played many, many stunners, archers, etc. I find a good mix in fighting style is best for a new player, to learn and adapt as they go. More options are always better after all.

    As for sneak, I've never needed to sneak past anything. Mind you've I've played full dex rogues with stealth close to or over 100. Still, a simple invisibility or ninja fade and you're fine. It is simply not essential. Is it nice to have? sure, but it's certainly not critical to any build, not even an assassin.

    Everyone knows survivability is key for elite epics. Best way to not die? don't get hit. Whip out a bow if you're not sure you can take a hit and you'll be fine.

  9. #29
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    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Krimleingod 
    Level 28 Lawful Good Elf Male
    (6 Monk \ 3 Rogue \ 11 Ranger \ 8 Epic) 
    Hit Points: 302
    Spell Points: 145 
    BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
    Fortitude: 14
    Reflex: 24
    Will: 10
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 28)
    Strength             13                    13
    Dexterity            17                    28
    Constitution         13                    13
    Intelligence         14                    14
    Wisdom               13                    13
    Charisma              8                     8
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 28)
    Balance               7                    21
    Bluff                -1                     7
    Concentration         3                    11
    Diplomacy            -1                     7
    Disable Device        6                    33
    Haggle               -1                     7
    Heal                  3                    11
    Hide                  3                    17
    Intimidate           -1                     7
    Jump                  5                    16
    Listen                1                    15
    Move Silently         3                    17
    Open Lock             7                    40
    Perform              n/a                    n/a
    Repair                2                    10
    Search                6                    39
    Spellcraft            2                    10
    Spot                  5                    38
    Swim                  1                     9
    Tumble                7                    21
    Use Magic Device      3                    30
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+4)
    Skill: Concentration (+2)
    Skill: Disable Device (+4)
    Skill: Heal (+2)
    Skill: Jump (+4)
    Skill: Open Lock (+4)
    Skill: Search (+4)
    Skill: Spot (+4)
    Skill: Tumble (+4)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
    Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
    
    
    Level 2 (Monk)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 3 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+2)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 4 (Monk)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+2)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Whirling Steel Strike
    
    
    Level 5 (Monk)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+2)
    Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light
    
    
    Level 6 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+3)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    
    
    Level 7 (Monk)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    
    
    Level 8 (Monk)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    
    
    Level 9 (Monk)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Zen Archery
    
    
    Level 10 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
    Skill: Search (+4)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    
    
    Level 11 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1.5)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 12 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
    Feat: (Selected) Master of Forms
    
    
    Level 13 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 14 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 15 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 16 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 17 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
    
    
    Level 18 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Grandmaster of Forms
    
    
    Level 19 (Rogue)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+6)
    
    
    Level 20 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+3)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+3)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 21 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Epic: Combat Archery
    
    
    Level 22 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 23 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 24 (Epic)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
    
    
    Level 25 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 26 (Epic)
    Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 27 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Epic: Blinding Speed
    
    
    Level 28 (Epic)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Doubleshot
    Enhancement: Elf - Elven Accuracy (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Elf - Elven Dexterity (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Elf - Elven Accuracy (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Elf - Elven Dexterity (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Elf - Keen Senses (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Elf - Keen Senses (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Elf - Aerenal Weapon Training (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Elf - Aerenal Weapon Training (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Elf - Aerenal Weapon Training (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Elf - Aerenal Grace (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Elf - Aerenal Weapon Training (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Elf - Skill (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Shield of Whirling Steel (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Tempest (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Reaction (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Reaction (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Reaction (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Parry (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Parry (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Parry (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Arcane Archer (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Morphic Arrows (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Metalline Arrows (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Conjure Arrows (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Energy of the Wild (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Energy of the Wild (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Energy of the Wild (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Awareness (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Awareness (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Force Arrows (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Force Arrows (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Force Arrows (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Terror Arrows (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Terror Arrows (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Terror Arrows (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Soul Magic (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Dexterity (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Paralyzing  Arrows (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Paralyzing  Arrows (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Paralyzing  Arrows (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Dexterity (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Arrow of Slaying (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Bastion of Purity (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Protection from Tainted Creatures (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Iron Hand (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Iron Skin (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Iron Skin (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Iron Skin (Rank 3)

  10. #30
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    Thanks to everyone, and especially psycho and ironegrip for writing down those lengthy builds and explaining how they work, it is all very much appreciated (:
    Last edited by Krimleingod; 06-18-2014 at 06:16 PM.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ironegrip View Post
    Everyone knows survivability is key for elite epics. Best way to not die? don't get hit. Whip out a bow if you're not sure you can take a hit and you'll be fine.
    Even bow characters get hit, and it's not ONLY epic elite where it's a problem. Tomes etc. make any build better. A brand new character with no gear is going to have JUST as much of a problem if they have an 20 strength as a 12. Power attack is not going to make up the damage deficit. Smiters, banishers, and disruptors go a long way toward making up any damage deficit against critters that don't readily take sneak attack damage. Precision also includes a big chunk of fort bypass that helps with that, too.

    This build also includes a useful amount of ranged effectiveness. Ninja spy tier 2 gives you a chance to throw an extra shuriken. The amount of sneak attack on this build means that you can regularly do 30+60 damage on every throw. You CAN swap out dodge for Quick Draw (particularly easy because you don't have Completionist eating a feat). You can also pick up Ten Thousand Stars if you REALLY want to.

    This build isn't like many that are dependent upon past lives to work at all. The past lives just make it better, more consistent, more independent. But it wasn't until I realized what a beast I had on my hands that I even decided to bother going for completionist. It's perfectly viable with no past lives at all.
    I edited a book!

    Thelanis player: Arekkeh, Kimberlei (heroic completionist), Lehren (heroic/epic completionist), Natheme, Terpsikhore

  12. #32
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    One question though with ironegrip's build. I don't get any two weapon fighting feats until epic level 26, are you sure that will be alright, or am I focusing on ranged more than melee, or how does that fit in?

  13. #33
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    @Psycho, my lady really loves your druid setup by the way, it seems a lot more straight forward and simple than my trapmonkey build ahaha, but that's definitely a good thing for her :P

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krimleingod View Post
    One question though with ironegrip's build. I don't get any two weapon fighting feats until epic level 26, are you sure that will be alright, or am I focusing on ranged more than melee, or how does that fit in?
    Yeah, that might be a bit confusing...
    That build plan only lists feat choices. Rangers get autogranted a whole bunch of feats, including the three two-weapon fighting feats (at 2nd, 6th and 11th Ranger level), which you can't choose yourself and which aren't listed there.


    Oh, and the enhancements listing - those can be changed any time, and possibly should, to accommodate your situation. Don't wait till level 28 to start with them ;-)
    Last edited by mna; 06-18-2014 at 08:28 PM.
    No longer completely f2p as of November 2014. Father of 3 more DDO players so far (I do have more children than that).

  15. #35
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    Interesting.

    Now, I've never splashed into a monk before, so let me know if these assumptions are true:

    1) I always want to be playing in a robe or unarmored so I can be centered and use my stances (so basically, don't even touch light armor?)
    2) I want to fight with my fists until I get level 4 and put a feat into whirling steel strike so I can dual wield longswords, correct?
    3) I don't want to use a bow until level 9 when I get zen archery, correct?
    4) How do fists of light work? From the description on the wiki, it sounds as if when I hit an enemy it gives them some "curse" that heals them, so is this only good against undead?
    5) For my monk, the only two stances that seem worthwhile are the wind stance for when I'm fighting, and the ocean stance for when I'm locating and disarming traps, would this be accurate?
    6) Anything else I'm missing, or just useful things to know would be most appreciated.

  16. #36
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    1. To make use of evasion, you'll be in robes or light armor all the time. Monk stances make the most of that.
    2. you can actually probably wield a greataxe at those early levels lol, most people do. base weapon damage matters a lot early on.
    3. you can use a bow whenever really, you just wont be centered until lv 9.
    4. the healing curse heals you each time you strike someone cursed by it, it's a good early healing method.
    5. pretty accurate actually, until epics, then earth is kind of necessary to mitigate damage.
    6. a lot of things you'll learn as you go along, just have fun with it

  17. #37
    Community Member Jingwei's Avatar
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    As for gear, once you get to around level 5, track down someone in the Smithy Alliance and get them to make you some. The lack of clean skill items for trappers in 'recent' loot drops has been pretty bad, thankfully cannith crafting can make up for it.

  18. #38

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    Just a quick reminder that rangers get the Wild Instincts spell, which gives you a stacking +10 to spot.

  19. #39
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    Thanks ironegrip. And that's pretty awesome about the smithy alliance, thanks for the tip jingwei. Great to know about that wild instincts spell, hopefully I don't have to wait til' too high of a level to grab it!

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    Also, just a quick note. With a build plan like this, you may be relying on strength early on, as you wont be able to take the dexterity to damage enhancement until a later level. To help get around this, you can use other enhancement trees and reset them when needed, it only costs some platinum, and that’s easy enough to get.

    For example, by monk level 3, you can spend enough points in the Ninja Spy enhancement line to gain access to dexterity to damage for centered weapons, which includes longswords at that level, and can continue to use that enhancement until you gain access to grace in the elf racial enhancement tree. Also, thanks to mna for pointing out the enhancement tree thing. I typically do those last on the planner, as you’ll have all your enhancement points by lv 20. But yes, as you’re leveling, you’ll probably use several different iterations of enhancements until you arrive at the final setup.

    Don’t be afraid to play around with the enhancements, I laid out an end-game enhancement setup, but you should find what works as you level and reset them as necessary. As you probably have noticed, the tree is set so that you have access to slaying arrows, one of the hardest hitting abilities when combo’d with manyshot and certain destinies (*cough fury cough*), and you also go fairly deep into tempest for your dual-wielding bonuses, and into shintao for survivability and healing amplification. The skills are laid out so that you always have maximum, or close to maximum, ranks as you level, to make it easier for trapping purposes. You will also have full ranks into UMD (Use Magic Device), meaning you will be able to make use of many scrolls and items usually restricted to other classes and races.

    As I was building it, I realized the same level split is perfect for a quarterstaff build. It plays a little differently, but can be extremely rewarding if you ever get a Sireth at end game. If you ever get bored of TWF, just reset the enhancements and pick up the quarterstaff lines in monk and rogue.

    Happy questing!

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