Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 87
  1. #21
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    3,064

    Default

    I discovered something interesting last night regarding the critical rage enhancement. After some testing, i found that it does indeed have it's effect doubled by improved critical for thrown weapons, at least for the nightforged spike and a generic throwing axe. It does not have its effect doubled for two handed weapons, at least not greataxes or mauls. Didn't test single handed melee weapons, but i suspect it would't work for those either. I shouldn't have gotten so excited by the idea of a 32 crit factor (13-20 x5) deathnip barb.

    What's up with that? How long have you been using this build? Did this work before they did the fixes for thrower crit enhancements?

  2. #22
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    3,064

    Default

    I wonder if the designers of the new enhancements intended for any of the crit profile enhancements to be doubled by improved crit. I wasn't around for the old critical rage, so i have no idea if that was doubled, but i know the old kensei one was not. If it was their intention to make them all be doubled, and critical rage worked for melee weapons, they probably wouldn't even need to mess with barb enhancements any more. It would be hands down the single best melee enhancement available.

    In fact, maybe that's exactly what they should try to do. A part of why barbs are somewhat neglected has to do with their enhancements which are similar to other classes being not as good. For example, the tier 5 damage against helpless enhancement in ravager is 15% for 6 ap. The one in rogue is tier 3, and gives 30% for 3 ap. Slaughter, which might be an interesting attack, has a ridiculous two minute cooldown. Compare that with something like exposing strike from ranger, which is probably better straight up, and has a six second cooldown.

  3. #23
    Community Member threefeetunder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    524

    Default

    have you tried the Shadow Star (http://ddowiki.com/page/Shadow_Star)? Its crit threat range has always been a bit wonky, to give you an idea, my lvl 3 swashbuckler crits on a 9-20 with it, which it most certainly shouldn't be doing. I think it counts keen twice or something, and I'm curious what it would look like with even more crit threat range bonuses (if the other bonuses work the same way, then you should hit the infamous 2-20 threat range on every hit).
    Last edited by threefeetunder; 07-05-2014 at 02:33 AM.

  4. #24
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    EU
    Posts
    1,906

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FestusHood View Post
    It does not have its effect doubled for two handed weapons, at least not greataxes or mauls. Didn't test single handed melee weapons, but i suspect it would't work for those either. I shouldn't have gotten so excited by the idea of a 32 crit factor (13-20 x5) deathnip barb.
    Of course it does work for melee weapons, that's the main reason to even consider Ravager. It simply adds 2 to threat range.
    Mornh in LD is 13-20 because of Pulverizer ( which adds to threat range before IC or other things are calculated ), your Deathnip would crit on 15.

    I played 4 martial lives with pair of 13-20 Mornhs last 2 months. And 15-20 Lit khops while levelling.
    Shahang Nezhat Bellezza Wipekin Farida of Ghallanda

  5. #25
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    463

    Default

    I rolled up a PDK with a Shadow Star to test the crit ranges. With Crit Rage, I crit on a 3 (at level 15). With Divine Crusader, you would crit on a 5 without raging, on a 2 while raging.

  6. #26
    Community Member jakeelala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    2,716

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gwonbush View Post
    I rolled up a PDK with a Shadow Star to test the crit ranges. With Crit Rage, I crit on a 3 (at level 15). With Divine Crusader, you would crit on a 5 without raging, on a 2 while raging.
    So what exactly is bugged? Having a hard time parsing out the actual issues here since it's a bit spread out.

    How do you crit on a 3?

    Crit Rage gives what? 2 for 18-20?
    Swash gives 5 for 15-20 so you're down to 13-20 before IC Thrown.
    Divine Crusader Gives another 1 for 12-20

    Which is a total Mod of 8 to Crit Range doubles by IC Thrown =

    4-20 Crits on a normal Shuriken, is that correct?

    If so, a halfling with Dex to damage and shuriken Expertise is looking like a very viable build if you build for DoubleShot. Your crit threat range is 13 ahead of a Meteor Shower and 11 Ahead of a Shuricannon giving a 4.5%x13 = 58.5% increase in physical damage and on Crit proc effects over MS and 49.5% increase over Shuricannon. Of course, youre still missing Ninja Spy II, which at an average of ~70 Dex is equivalent to around 70% total damage. The point is, you're starting to get pretty competitive here. at 4-20 with a shuriken and SE, I would argue in big round numbers you've reached equilibrium with other shuriken builds. This is partly due to the obscene amount of damage Thunderforged weapons do on Crit, and multiple stacking sources of DoubleShot you can now get in game with EPL's, Equipment, and Bard Enhancements.

    Also, Shuriken Expertise has ZERO Centering requirement. It works in Heavy Armor with a Bastard Sword offhand, if you want. Of course, that wouldn't allow Swashbuckling. But a rune arm would be quite a nice addition to this build for damage, especially a fully upgraded Glass Cannon.

    Or alternatively a Thunderforged Orb with something like Draconic Reinvigoration, and and Dragons Edge. And Sonic SpellPower or Crit % for Resonant Arms.

    I like it. I might even just come back to try it out

  7. #27
    Community Member threefeetunder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    524

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    Apparently RNG keen doesn't work at all with thrown, but the feat IC:Thrown works normally. So it looks like they left thrown as ammo, and not weapons, and worked on halfling and monk crit. with thrown, so crit bugs abound for everyone else. So the quad crit profile bug I think is shadowstar only.
    Thanks for testing the rng keen thrown, I've been looking for one on the market to no avail. Note that the Coffin Nail (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Coffin_Nail) also has keen (it's a dart though) at lvl 24, I haven't tested it personally but I asked a friend to try it for me and apparently it works just like the shadowstar.

  8. #28

  9. #29
    Community Member Firewall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    826

    Default

    Interesting build. Have you tried using Tier 5 Exploit Weakness instead of Barbarian Rage?

    If the thread here https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...on-a-rapier%29

    is correct then the +1 bonus to crit range after each non-crit is doubled with improved critical too and the overall benefit is better than a 10% increase in crits in almost all cases. You can have that bonus all the time without being raged and it does not interfere with the Precision Stance (in fact the Tier 5 SB ability Thread the Needle even gives you +5 damage when in Precision stance). This would enable you to take other nice bonuses from the SB tree also and i assume in epics with the extended crit range of Divine Crusader you will hit the crit cap with the special attacks anyway?

    Also with such a high chance to crit it might be worth it to craft the Force Critical Ritual from the Stone of Change on your weapon of choice if possible.
    Last edited by Firewall; 07-23-2014 at 08:30 PM.
    Shuricannon 2.0 Drow 20 Monk Thrower for DPS, Nethercannon Shadar-Kai 15 Pal/3 Monk/2 Rog Thrower for Past Lifes
    Shiradi Shuricannon Drow 20 Monk Thrower for Defense, Shiradi Warcannon Warforged 11 Wiz/6 Monk/3 Rog Thrower...Throwers for the win

  10. #30
    Community Member Firewall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    826

    Default

    Yes i bet with a high Seeker item you are the king in heroics. One other thing i read in another swashbuckler thread somewhere is that in heroic levels with such a high crit range a bodyfeeder weapon makes you close to invulnerable since it replenishes the +15 temporary HP almost instantly. So it might be worth it to craft a bodyfeeder shuriken for low levels if you want to go that way after they have fixed the double crit range bug. I would also try to get a Life Stealing lvl 24 spelltouched shuriken. With the high crit range the level drain will proc constantly as i already see on my Shuricannon with a 13-20 crit range (for regular shuriken) in Divine Crusader with a higher number of attacks.
    Last edited by Firewall; 07-23-2014 at 10:54 PM.
    Shuricannon 2.0 Drow 20 Monk Thrower for DPS, Nethercannon Shadar-Kai 15 Pal/3 Monk/2 Rog Thrower for Past Lifes
    Shiradi Shuricannon Drow 20 Monk Thrower for Defense, Shiradi Warcannon Warforged 11 Wiz/6 Monk/3 Rog Thrower...Throwers for the win

  11. #31
    Community Member jakeelala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    2,716

    Default

    So I equipped a Regular store bought non returning Shuriken in a Bard mule that was swashbuckling and it said 18-20x3 (no IC).

    Then I trained Exploit Weakness. Against the dummy, it worked exactly as advertised with the Shuriken.

    Am I missing something in your thread? Or is your discussion of bugs mostly limited to Darts and Keen items? I'm confused.

  12. #32
    Community Member jakeelala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    2,716

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    It just doesn't do what is says. On a lot of different crit related and SB abilities. And returning throwing items, both rng and named, and store bought. You have to go use them against real mobs to find all the problems, or read the picture in the first post.

    In fact, only ranger abilities are working as intended in the original build. Every other crit/crit multiplier enhancement of the build is bugged in some way, as are all throwing items with keen. Exploit weakness wasn't part of the original build I wanted, and works properly.
    Your original picture doesnt show any pictures with shuriken, just a dart.

    Are you saying the x3 Multi that displays is not actually x3?
    It's not actually giving +2 Threat range?

    I guess I'll test it tomorrow on a dummy. What else did you find not working in Swashbuckler? I did the math tonight and a Halfing 9 Bard 6 Ftr 5 Rogue SB Shuriken thrower (Overshleming Crit, Shiradi) can out-damage my best Monk based shuriken thrower at end game, based on my simulation of Exploit Weakness and SB Competence based crit effects working as intended. It's beastly. Just using Doublestrike and Shuriken Expertise.

  13. #33
    Community Member jakeelala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    2,716

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    Ya, but I tested on everything.

    SB crit multiplier doesn't work.

    Blow by blow ranged doesn't work, at all.

    Crit rage doesn't work fully for melee.

    All displayed crit ranges and multipliers are wrong, and not used for damage calculations.

    RNG Keen property on RNG items doesn't work, at all.

    RNG Keen property on named items works 2x.

    The game engine does not allow thrown crits on a roll of 2.
    For the record SB and shuriken threat seems to work fine (15-20x2) just not the crit. Exploit weakness is also working.

    Havent tested the double shot damage mods yet.

  14. #34

  15. #35
    Community Member jakeelala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    2,716

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    I've been thinking about this. My test build started with a 10 charisma since I thought I was going all crit dps and its hurting me since I didn't collect the gear or starting stats for perform to work well without the twist. Ill try find a deadly stolen necklace. After that, I will be able to pull off IPS Pin > Coup instakill pulls followed by Whistler > Adrenaline sniper shots. I think they will only hit for 5k, 10k on double shots though.

    I did kill 3 out of 4 hezrous in EE Spinner the other day with an IPS Coup de Grace yesterday. I have an 11 perform augment, no exceptional charisma skills, 6 charisma augment only, normal heroism, and twist. Next life when I'm prepared better it will be 4 out of 4. I also don't currently have Skill Focus: Perform (I do have Epic Skill Focus though).

    Im using belt for spell power with shuriken with no augment slot. Next life will use GS Charisma 6 skill permablur belt, combined with nightforge spike which has a slot for spell power, use shuriken feats for Skill Focus: perform, and have higher started charisma. Then the build will sing. Well, more like annihilate, but what's the difference.
    I still cant help but feel thata dex build with Shuriken Expertise but otherwise similar would be a better version of this (lower crits but more missiles for higher total damage).


    Might have to put it in the spreadsheet.

    I've been working on a 9Bard 6Fighter 5Rogue dex build with Glass cannon Off hand and OC. It could be worked into Ranger instead of Fighter I think since it's just for feats, which would allow Sniper shotting. Though to be honest, I'm not as big a fan of Sniper shot as some. Of course, using Nightforge/Coffin Nail changes the math a little bit

  16. #36
    Community Member jakeelala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    2,716

    Default

    My bad. Im mixing builds up. My bard build uses empty handed SWB for 10% Doublestrike.

    Ive done the DPS calculation for things like blow by blow, resonant arms, and Exploit Weakness.

    The damage is very high with good fort bypass layout, but i havent tried to model the dage for your build.

    I might though.

  17. #37
    Community Member Firewall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    826

    Default

    Have you tried this with a Superior Heartseeker weapon? With a x4 crit multiplier you do 13d10 addidional piercing damage on a crit which is an average of 71.5 damage that should work against all monsters and bosses.
    Shuricannon 2.0 Drow 20 Monk Thrower for DPS, Nethercannon Shadar-Kai 15 Pal/3 Monk/2 Rog Thrower for Past Lifes
    Shiradi Shuricannon Drow 20 Monk Thrower for Defense, Shiradi Warcannon Warforged 11 Wiz/6 Monk/3 Rog Thrower...Throwers for the win

  18. #38
    Founder
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    1,131

    Default

    Are the thrower builds still going to be viable with all melees getting a 70% damage boost? Maybe I'm over reacting to the proposed buffs since you guys are the ones actually playing the ranged builds.

  19. #39
    Community Member jakeelala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    2,716

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by maddong View Post
    Are the thrower builds still going to be viable with all melees getting a 70% damage boost? Maybe I'm over reacting to the proposed buffs since you guys are the ones actually playing the ranged builds.
    Only the absolute very best melee builds I've ever encountered on Khyber (maybe 3 in total I have played with) have ever kept pace at end game, in LD Blitzing, with my various thrower builds. Ditto Monkchers.

    Some of that is player skill. People like Poppy and Maktruck have been able to, because they are built, geared, and most importantly played extremely well. But if the very best blitzing melee's today with 250% LD damage can't beat me on kills consistently, these changes will have little to no effect, since they are in effect keeping Blitz the same or making it slightly weaker. At the end of the day the power of the thrower build lies in IPS, and making sure you're always doing damaging more than 1 mob at a time until they're all dead. When there's 4 mobs to fight, you should be doing 2-400% DPS, which is more than a Blitzer. I'm talking about IPS, of course.

    I think it just means thankfully I'll have less runs where I have 90 kills and everyone else has like 7.

  20. #40
    Founder
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    1,131

    Default

    So IPS is the reason ranged will be viable if melee gets a 70% damage boost. Ok. I have a monkcher that I don't like because of the time when both manyshot and 10k are off. Perhaps I should try a thrower.

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload