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  1. #301
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    whatevs
    Last edited by Wipey; 06-17-2014 at 11:05 PM.
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  2. #302
    Community Member Blackheartox's Avatar
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    I dont know personally i run it only once and i had a blast and lotsa fun in prove your worth with its incredibly broken dcs where i thought my 90 reflex would be godly, oh how wrong i was heh.
    Cannons with evasion.. No words. Traps in front of cannons with dc so high you can suck your own fingers as barb or non evasion..
    Last quest with DROW SHADAR KAIS, retarded as hell...
    Well last one was fun but the fact that im forced to play ranged isnt realy motivating.
    Overall i think gloves boots n clickie, googs n helm are really good.
    Once i aquire all those Once i might only run some of those for fast valor.
    Still testing how fast you can do some with invisi.
    Not high replayability, but same thing is for me for horns. I like wheloon more then horns, i do run horns quite offten, i like wgu solo as challenge.
    But beside that horns is far worse imo then 3bc is as pack.
    Only difference is i can get rich by selling a nice pair of boots or ring.

    Overall e3bc feels the way i assumed it would feel like.
    And opinions are different for each and every one.

    But hey on the positive, wel get epic necro4 and maybe something beyond the planes of amarath..
    Hope is not lost!

    We just need to wait another year til we get that... yea... hope is no... yea.. lost...
    Last edited by Blackheartox; 06-17-2014 at 09:17 PM.

  3. #303

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cetus View Post
    Oh no, absolutely not. I don't think EE content should be same difficulty regardless of level. I think EE should be endgame content when it is released IF a single quest pack is slated for an update.
    I don't think I agree with this. I think content difficulty should be based on the content, which in turn should be based loosely on its relative heroic level. Which means I think e3BC should be around level 20 or 21.

    For example, when Carnival was released, its epic version was not designed to be endgame. Neither was Red Fens. I don't think they should have been, and in the same way I don't think 3BC should be either.

    By contrast, if Amrath were made epic, it should absolutely be made endgame.

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cetus View Post
    ...stuff...
    The last two updates had endgame. Why can't you let Turbine deliver their project their way?
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  5. #305
    Community Member Talonaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    The last two updates had endgame. Why can't you let Turbine deliver their project their way?
    Why are others not allowed to offer suggestions/ideas? I believe as the customers, we all have rights to voice our opinions. (and not that I think it matters - but yes I am VIP) Turbine will make mistakes, they are not all knowing all seeing gods... and I am not saying all of our suggestions are better, but it doesn't hurt to allow people to talk. ANYONE who wants to improve asks for feedback, the good and the bad. It is the only way to improve.

    And as an update -- I have looked all night at the LFMs, One is posted right now. Only one up all night, has been active for 25 min, one person in party. I never saw higher than 14 people in 3bc on the who panel. This is still not a definitive source, but in "prime time" it seems fairly unused on ARgo --- now it may have hundreds on other servers. What does this mean? Nothing other than that at least on Argo it may not be as popular as other content.
    Last edited by Talonaise; 06-17-2014 at 10:18 PM.
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  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    By contrast, if Amrath were made epic, it should absolutely be made endgame.
    Can we have it please
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  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talonaise View Post
    Why are others not allowed to offer suggestions/ideas? I believe as the customers, we all have rights to voice our opinions. (and not that I think it matters - but yes I am VIP) Turbine will make mistakes, they are not all knowing all seeing gods... and I am not saying all of our suggestions are better, but it doesn't hurt to allow people to talk. ANYONE who wants to improve asks for feedback, the good and the bad. It is the only way to improve.

    And as an update -- I have looked all night at the LFMs, One is posted right now. Only one up all night, has been active for 25 min, one person in party. I never saw higher than 14 people in 3bc on the who panel. This is still not a definitive source, but in "prime time" it seems fairly unused on ARgo --- now it may have hundreds on other servers. What does this mean? Nothing other than that at least on Argo it may not be as popular as other content.
    They are not omniscient, true, but they have us at a major disadvantage on this general topic. They know the detailed project specifications and goals. We don't. They know which sub-projects are to be delivered at which time (with adjustments). We don't. They know the code they have to work with. We don't.

    The last two updates had endgame content; the endgamers (Cetus) had their turn. This update had mid-epic content that filled a level hole. Insisting or suggesting that e3BC should have had an endgame component sounds both selfish and arrogant. If the next update has more endgame content, I wonder whether certain people will at least have the grace to feel silly.
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  8. #308
    Community Member Talonaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    They are not omniscient, true, but they have us at a major disadvantage on this general topic. They know the detailed project specifications and goals. We don't. They know which sub-projects are to be delivered at which time (with adjustments). We don't. They know the code they have to work with. We don't.

    The last two updates had endgame content; the endgamers (Cetus) had their turn. This update had mid-epic content that filled a level hole. Insisting or suggesting that e3BC should have had an endgame component sounds both selfish and arrogant. If the next update has more endgame content, I wonder whether certain people will at least have the grace to feel silly.
    We play the game, and thus have some basis for which to make comments. And I have also worked long enough with people to know that often fresh perspectives offer insight. Hey - maybe the devs might LIKE to hear what people other than those who just praise everything they do have to say. Please stop trying to stifle open discussion.

    I have stated many times I don't think an update should be sole endgame either -- yet you ignore that.

    Honestly you fall back on your hole argument over, and over, even though we have shown it is not really a hole. You don't want to look at the situation in any way other than your own. We get it -- you think because there is only one quest that says 25 the world is ending. Please let that dead horse rest a bit.

    I think the only people being selfish and arrogant are the ones who say give us this mid range -- and screw everyone else. That has not been said by Cetus or me -- we wanted content to be more inclusive of both groups. Heck I would even say add more new heroic quests -- looks like a lot of people do that too. Not me, but hey, I am good with that. there were 4 updates scheduled this year total, with that in mind keeping each one more inclusive is not a bad thing.
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  9. #309
    Community Member Cetus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    They are not omniscient, true, but they have us at a major disadvantage on this general topic. They know the detailed project specifications and goals. We don't.
    They should communicate this information, which they're doing rather well recently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    They know which sub-projects are to be delivered at which time (with adjustments). We don't. They know the code they have to work with. We don't.
    What does the code have to do with anything? Do you think about the relevance of the things you write? We don't know about the size of the tiles on their bathroom floor either. Bravo - point made!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    The last two updates had endgame content; the endgamers (Cetus) had their turn.
    Really now? I've addressed this multiple times, you keep repeating it like a child who gets an unsatisfying answer. The endgame content that was delivered is being accessed DAILY by non-endgamers on normal difficulty. It has plenty of stuff to offer to non-endgamers, we even had someone in this thread say that HH was their favorite quest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    This update had mid-epic content that filled a level hole.
    What level hole? I've asked this before and still received no response. You're saying there's nothing for a level 25 character to run around their level? What have I been running for like 30 epic past lives so far then?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    Insisting or suggesting that e3BC should have had an endgame component sounds both selfish and arrogant. If the next update has more endgame content, I wonder whether certain people will at least have the grace to feel silly.
    Ok, but you wanting your bravery streak, normal access to our supposed previous ENDGAME content and nearly exclusive access to this new midlevel content (since it offers NOTHING to endgamers) isn't selfish?

    My suggestion to provide all-inclusive packs can't possibly be called selfish. Asking for endgame content with a lockout mechanism under 28 would be selfish, just to give you some perspective.
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  10. #310
    Community Member Talonaise's Avatar
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    Keep in mind, NO one thinks that 3bc is changing or going away -- for those of you that think this pack was Nirvana - gratz you got it! Calm down.

    What we are addressing is that in the FUTURE - we think packs should be more inclusive by using items in this pack as examples of what we feel is less inclusive.
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  11. #311
    Community Member Blackheartox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talonaise View Post
    Keep in mind, NO one thinks that 3bc is changing or going away -- for those of you that think this pack was Nirvana - gratz you got it! Calm down.

    What we are addressing is that in the FUTURE - we think packs should be more inclusive by using items in this pack as examples of what we feel is less inclusive.
    Lets just hope they dont mess up epic necro..
    Realy want a epic litanny, i know cetus wants as well

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cetus View Post
    They should communicate this information, which they're doing rather well recently.



    What does the code have to do with anything? Do you think about the relevance of the things you write? We don't know about the size of the tiles on their bathroom floor either. Bravo - point made!



    Really now? I've addressed this multiple times, you keep repeating it like a child who gets an unsatisfying answer. The endgame content that was delivered is being accessed DAILY by non-endgamers on normal difficulty. It has plenty of stuff to offer to non-endgamers, we even had someone in this thread say that HH was their favorite quest.



    What level hole? I've asked this before and still received no response. You're saying there's nothing for a level 25 character to run around their level? What have I been running for like 30 epic past lives so far then?



    Ok, but you wanting your bravery streak, normal access to our supposed previous ENDGAME content and nearly exclusive access to this new midlevel content (since it offers NOTHING to endgamers) isn't selfish?

    My suggestion to provide all-inclusive packs can't possibly be called selfish. Asking for endgame content with a lockout mechanism under 28 would be selfish, just to give you some perspective.
    I can see there is no more point in talking with you. Your obsession is blinding you to rational discussion. I tried to explain the bigger picture, but you act like all of the viewpoints that are not in line with yours are all about what I want. Boys like you make me glad I don't have a kid brother. Enjoy your selfish, narrowminded life. Bye.
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  13. #313
    Founder & Hero Vordax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    I can see there is no more point in talking with you. Your obsession is blinding you to rational discussion. I tried to explain the bigger picture, but you act like all of the viewpoints that are not in line with yours are all about what I want. Boys like you make me glad I don't have a kid brother. Enjoy your selfish, narrowminded life. Bye.
    Cetus has been extremely rational in this thread. You on the other hand have not shown a single iota of rationalism. The obsession and child like behavior is all on your end.

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  14. #314
    Community Member G_Lich's Avatar
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    I've liked most of the new releases, there's been a lot of whining. The content has always maintained a standard of quality, haunted halls was bigger but I wouldn't say it was setting the bar much higher than other long indirect quests in lower levels. There is some genuine **** loot in the new list, but most of it is decent, and many items can be farmed out of the slayer, a welcome change (although I hate that it's all BTA, I'd be buying some off AH, and selling some also, BTA rewards severely limits the need to run quests once the loot is obtained for all alts).

    In short, think about the game you've been playing for the last 8 years, compare the current releases (EGH wasn't as great creatively, and it filled a level 24 gap, it was a bump in HP, not a whole lot new in the quests themselves, 3BC was a more creative epification than EGH was). There are still many pieces of **** loot in that series, many unique items (Quiver, draconic soul gem) - It's all pretty similar.

    Maybe try reevaluating and managing expectations? It's a change of pace from drow-forest and demon-zone and purple-town and giant-horns and undead-holme... welcome to pirates-cove. End game is ER'ing right now, and if you've done that blasting through content in full throttle mode congrats, but 9 out of 10 doctors agree this causes burnout, and this thread reeks of it. Cove seems like it's meant to be more 20-28 xp, and gear for alts, and a good time, if you don't take it too seriously.

    At least we don't have to do an escort mission as an endgame raid. Game design 101, people hate escort missions, and have since counter-strike.
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  15. #315
    Community Member kmoustakas's Avatar
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    First of all... unleash the /POPCORN!

    The reason this topic is 17 pages is that people want the game to be the way they personally want it. They don't want to believe that there's a chance that not everyone likes what they like and even if they do, they should be made to. Also, the majority of vocal people believe they talk for the majority. Something we all know is highely unlike because each person has a varying oppinion.

    There are farmers, there are flowersniffers, there are inbetweens. Usually 'end game' refers to farmer content, middle ground to 'flowersniffer'. Just because theres no incentive to run a quest 100 times doesn't mean that quest doesn't fill a role.

    What I am sure farmers want and don't express it correctly, is that two raids are not endgame. Two raids and an albeit huge quest are not endgame. 6 epic chains and 7 raids are endgame circa before motd. But unless we want to wait a whole year, you can't have 6 new raids appear overnight. Note to devs: don't give us shadowfail type expansions. Give us a raid only expansion with 5+ raids inside and you have a winner. And stop trying to replicate shroud, you can't. We've had enough of lob style crafting that a year later is forgotten and ignored. Add an epic difficulty shroud (just one, not normal-hard-elite)
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  16. #316
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmoustakas View Post
    First of all... unleash the /POPCORN!

    The reason this topic is 17 pages is that people want the game to be the way they personally want it. They don't want to believe that there's a chance that not everyone likes what they like and even if they do, they should be made to. Also, the majority of vocal people believe they talk for the majority. Something we all know is highely unlike because each person has a varying oppinion.
    Absolutely false.

    Cetus, Talonaise and I: "we want content to cater to BOTH ENDGAMERS and NON-ENDGAMERS". And then proceeding to offer ideas for the future.

    Tscheuss and others: "BUT WE LIKE E3BC, YOU WON'T GET ONLY ENDGAME CONTENT (which, as stated above, is not what we want), GET OVER IT, I DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR IDEAS THAT IM GOING TO IGNORE"

    This is the whole conversation. Maybe tscheusss and others will actually open their eyes since you can't really misinterpret this reply.
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  17. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by G_Lich View Post

    In short, think about the game you've been playing for the last 8 years, compare the current releases (EGH wasn't as great creatively, and it filled a level 24 gap, it was a bump in HP, not a whole lot new in the quests themselves, 3BC was a more creative epification than EGH was). There are still many pieces of **** loot in that series, many unique items (Quiver, draconic soul gem) - It's all pretty similar.

    Maybe try reevaluating and managing expectations? It's a change of pace from drow-forest and demon-zone and purple-town and giant-horns and undead-holme... welcome to pirates-cove. End game is ER'ing right now, and if you've done that blasting through content in full throttle mode congrats, but 9 out of 10 doctors agree this causes burnout, and this thread reeks of it. Cove seems like it's meant to be more 20-28 xp, and gear for alts, and a good time, if you don't take it too seriously.
    Great points
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  18. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmoustakas View Post
    First of all... unleash the /POPCORN!

    The reason this topic is 17 pages is that people want the game to be the way they personally want it. They don't want to believe that there's a chance that not everyone likes what they like and even if they do, they should be made to. Also, the majority of vocal people believe they talk for the majority. Something we all know is highely unlike because each person has a varying oppinion.

    There are farmers, there are flowersniffers, there are inbetweens. Usually 'end game' refers to farmer content, middle ground to 'flowersniffer'. Just because theres no incentive to run a quest 100 times doesn't mean that quest doesn't fill a role.

    What I am sure farmers want and don't express it correctly, is that two raids are not endgame. Two raids and an albeit huge quest are not endgame. 6 epic chains and 7 raids are endgame circa before motd. But unless we want to wait a whole year, you can't have 6 new raids appear overnight. Note to devs: don't give us shadowfail type expansions. Give us a raid only expansion with 5+ raids inside and you have a winner. And stop trying to replicate shroud, you can't. We've had enough of lob style crafting that a year later is forgotten and ignored. Add an epic difficulty shroud (just one, not normal-hard-elite)
    You are right - this is a lobby thread. One person and some guildies/friends decided to make an all-out assault on the issue.

    The thread is mostly filled with people making a single post that they like 3bc. However, I do think these 3 have some decent points about loot and I hope they get some better loot as they wish. I just generally think if people are saying the game is too easy and boring, giving special/better loot to make the game easier is not the answer. I don't think it would have been a problem to have these quests as level 28, although since it's tied into the House D quests which are level 20 that would have been odd to have half the arc 20 and half the arc 28.

    I love e3bc. The only thing is that I find myself always wanting to run the quests that make up the 5 eveningstar sagas for quicker renown, but I actually like e3bc better.
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  19. #319
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    You are right - this is a lobby thread. One person and some guildies/friends decided to make an all-out assault on the issue.

    The thread is mostly filled with people making a single post that they like 3bc. However, I do think these 3 have some decent points about loot and I hope they get some better loot as they wish. I just generally think if people are saying the game is too easy and boring, giving special/better loot to make the game easier is not the answer. I don't think it would have been a problem to have these quests as level 28, although since it's tied into the House D quests which are level 20 that would have been odd to have half the arc 20 and half the arc 28.

    I love e3bc. The only thing is that I find myself always wanting to run the quests that make up the 5 eveningstar sagas for quicker renown, but I actually like e3bc better.
    If you followed the thread closely, you'd have understood that "these 3" talked barely about loot and talked more generally about content being catered to both non-endgamers and endgamers. Or at least that is what we want, instead of content being catered to only ONE of the two, as it is happening now with E3BC.

    But hey, looks like that point is too hard for many to be understood.
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  20. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    If you followed the thread closely, you'd have understood that "these 3" talked barely about loot and talked more generally about content being catered to both non-endgamers and endgamers. Or at least that is what we want, instead of content being catered to only ONE of the two, as it is happening now with E3BC.

    But hey, looks like that point is too hard for many to be understood.
    That is because you categorization of what you consider "endgamer" is non-sensical. I ran the 2 new raids over 300 times on all difficulties and Cetus categorizes me as a "non-endgamer". I am not seeing many good ideas, just alot of insults to anyone that disagrees with you 3. Even if they gave you EXACTLY what you asked for you would all be on the forums again complaining within 2 weeks how bad everything is for you and demanding more.
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    Several characters on Sarlona all starting with "Rand" in the Guild "Guardians of House Cannith". My main four characters are Randowl (18 rogue 2 artificer mechanic - hope to go back to DC casting some day), Randslar (Bard 14 / Fighter 4 / Rogue 2 Swashbuckler), Randek (Druid CC Caster 17/Fvs 3) and Randomall (Rogue 20 assassin).

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