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  1. #1
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    Default Please dont change divine grace !!!

    I have something to say, please do not change divine grace in any way because it is required to survive in epic elite (or for the new content even on epic normal) its plain wrong and IS NOT overpowered dont make paladins even more worthless as they are because splashing paladin lvls will be pointless after it hits live. Yes its that important you need high saves min 70+ to survive epic elite where a delayed blast fireball kills you instantly on a roll of 55 if you ever ran fire on thunderpeak on any difficulty you will know what i mean they can 1 shot you on a failed save even in epic normal and thats a big deal melees need serious help and not more unnecessary nerfs pelase reconsider this its a big mistake you could instead try to help us a bit and give us more cc options like tactical feats which help us improve a bit also keep in mind that some of us have invested a lot of time and effort to improve their saves through charisma for example and rendering it useless will result in more people quitting ddo
    Last edited by pesch1991; 06-10-2014 at 03:13 PM.

  2. #2
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    The entire reason divine grace is OP is because content throws situations at you where you need to make a save with a HUGE dc value or suffer alot of damage.

    If they nerf it they need to bring down the DC of some of this higher end stuff the same amount of points they nerf it by (on average).

    .
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  3. #3
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    If they nerf it, it should be something like, limiting it to a +1 per paladin level, or putting it at level 8 paladin or both.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnbeimnech View Post
    If they nerf it, it should be something like, limiting it to a +1 per paladin level, or putting it at level 8 paladin or both.
    or remove paladins entirely

  5. #5
    Community Member stoopid_cowboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pesch1991 View Post
    or remove paladins entirely
    No, I think they are making an attempt to make Paladin's a class where people actually want to take more than just two levels.
    After all, why is it that just two levels of Pally is more powerful than taking 20 levels of Pally?

    I support the change!
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    I guess pants can be optional

  6. #6
    Community Member painkiller3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnbeimnech View Post
    If they nerf it, it should be something like, limiting it to a +1 per paladin level,....
    this

  7. #7
    The Hatchery Paleus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoopid_cowboy View Post
    No, I think they are making an attempt to make Paladin's a class where people actually want to take more than just two levels.
    After all, why is it that just two levels of Pally is more powerful than taking 20 levels of Pally?

    I support the change!
    I'm sorry, what now? Where is this change being discussed cause that sounds like some serious popcorn action I'm missing out on. Checked the release notes for lamannia and must have missed it. But otherwise, without seeing it I can state I probably have a similar viewpoint as this post. A level 20 pally should offer significantly more survivability from divine grace than a 2 splash of pally.
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    i'll be putting a bug into our system.

  8. #8
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    It's 2 + (paladin level x 3), so 2 paladin levels gets you +8 saves, and 4 paladin levels gets you +14 saves, and 6 paladin levels gets you +20 saves...

    So splash 4-6 levels of paladin instead of 2... That frees up a twist (you get Turn Undead for Divine Might from paladin 4), and offers a few more enhancements
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    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
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    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  9. #9
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    Not sure why everyone is so obsessed about staying pure... it doesnt offer anything and you will probably end up as a punching bag even in epic normal

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    It's 2 + (paladin level x 3), so 2 paladin levels gets you +8 saves, and 4 paladin levels gets you +14 saves, and 6 paladin levels gets you +20 saves...

    So splash 4-6 levels of paladin instead of 2... That frees up a twist (you get Turn Undead for Divine Might from paladin 4), and offers a few more enhancements
    Huge nerf for me loosing 2 feats and shadow veil is a big -

  11. #11
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    The entire reason divine grace is OP is because content throws situations at you where you need to make a save with a HUGE dc value or suffer alot of damage.

    If they nerf it they need to bring down the DC of some of this higher end stuff the same amount of points they nerf it by (on average).

    .
    So basically they wouldnt change anything.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    The entire reason divine grace is OP is because content throws situations at you where you need to make a save with a HUGE dc value or suffer alot of damage.

    If they nerf it they need to bring down the DC of some of this higher end stuff the same amount of points they nerf it by (on average).

    .
    lol they will never adjust dcs that would be like a dream come true lol

  13. #13
    Community Member janave's Avatar
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    This would be a dirt cheap and unwelcome change.

    Usually the builds using 2PAL splashes are using it to make evasion work 90%+ of the time, that mean it is at least another 2LVLs of Monk or Rogue. 2 levels is not trivial, losing 4 levels can be crippling for many builds.

    I understand there are a few exploiter builds, but they work well because ceirtan classes dont offer enough to stay pure in.

    I'd suggest to instead work out the rest of the abilities to scale better, rather than nerfing single options. As well as put in more checks against stats/fort/will. Rework spellcasting mobs so they dont spam nuke with infinite mana. Id suggest they should take a short break after 3-6-9-12 casting, and eventually lose the ability to cast top spells, buff up and go into rage melee or ranged. Adjusting how caster mobs work is the better way to go, in my opinion. Rednames and Purplenames could be exceptional, but thrasmobs shouldnt pulverize everyone without evasion in 1-2 shots.

  14. #14
    Bacon Queen MadCookieQueen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleus View Post
    I'm sorry, what now? Where is this change being discussed cause that sounds like some serious popcorn action I'm missing out on. Checked the release notes for lamannia and must have missed it. But otherwise, without seeing it I can state I probably have a similar viewpoint as this post. A level 20 pally should offer significantly more survivability from divine grace than a 2 splash of pally.
    Here: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...aladin-Changes


    The Divine Grace change makes a lot of game balancing sense.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by janave View Post
    This would be a dirt cheap and unwelcome change.

    Usually the builds using 2PAL splashes are using it to make evasion work 90%+ of the time, that mean it is at least another 2LVLs of Monk or Rogue. 2 levels is not trivial, losing 4 levels can be crippling for many builds.

    I understand there are a few exploiter builds, but they work well because ceirtan classes dont offer enough to stay pure in.

    I'd suggest to instead work out the rest of the abilities to scale better, rather than nerfing single options. As well as put in more checks against stats/fort/will. Rework spellcasting mobs so they dont spam nuke with infinite mana. Id suggest they should take a short break after 3-6-9-12 casting, and eventually lose the ability to cast top spells, buff up and go into rage melee or ranged. Adjusting how caster mobs work is the better way to go, in my opinion. Rednames and Purplenames could be exceptional, but thrasmobs shouldnt pulverize everyone without evasion in 1-2 shots.
    Yea EE is hard enough where mobs use their special chain combo (ogres/trolls) which is instant death !

  16. #16
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    I don't think the nerf is strong enough.

  17. #17
    Community Member Lycurgus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pesch1991 View Post
    I have something to say, please do not change divine grace in any way because it is required to survive in epic elite
    This is patently false.



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    It's 2 + (paladin level x 3), so 2 paladin levels gets you +8 saves, and 4 paladin levels gets you +14 saves, and 6 paladin levels gets you +20 saves...

    So splash 4-6 levels of paladin instead of 2... That frees up a twist (you get Turn Undead for Divine Might from paladin 4), and offers a few more enhancements
    This is my issue with the change. Because bad saves = instant death in EE, with this change we will simply be required to splash more pally if we want a viable EE build. So all these 12 fighter / 6 monk / 2 pally builds will now become something like 12 fighter / 4 pally / 4 monk or 12 fighter / 6 pally / 2 monk.

    The real issue that needs to be address is monster DCs that are too high in epic elite. You should be able to get your saves high enough to be worthwihile in EE content wihtout splashing pally. This s what needs to be adressed, not divine grace. If they fixed this issue they wouldn't need to nerf divine grace. The splash simply won't be as necissary.

    This in effect is a nerf to character customization. My main is a melee cleric, 16 cleric / 2 pally / 2 monk. With this change I'll simply be forced to convert him to 14 cleric / 4 pally / 2 monk. I'll lose some cleric abilities and healing power but if I'm going to be forced to take more pally levels just to stay alive in EE I'll have to give them up.
    Last edited by axel15810; 06-10-2014 at 04:17 PM.

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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by axel15810 View Post
    This in effect is a nerf to character customization.
    Is it really "customization" when all characters "have to have it?"

    Yes, EE DCs are too high. One would hope those get lowered with this change.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lycurgus View Post
    This is patently false.
    try to step in with no evasion low saves i will give you 3 secs most

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