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  1. #1
    2015 DDO Players Council
    Join Date
    Aug 2013

    Default Swashbuckling Crit Profile and Overwhelming Critical

    When Swashbuckling the crit profile on your weapon changes to a 18-20 x3 for all weapons except Light Picks, which are a 19-20 x4. With improved critical this improves to 15-20 x3 / 17-20 x4. These are *really* good crit profiles, and, well, compared to most other enhancement trees really really frick’n strong. And even stronger because you can get it at level 3, while the other major damage improvement enhancements wait until level 12. I’m not going to complain - I think more powerful toon early is a good thing, and Bard is a free to play class means it can be taken by almost anybody. But considering that it is the same crit profile rogues get at 12, that is, um, kinda strong.

    D = Total Damage
    MD = Damage that is multiplied with a crit
    CoH = Chance of a hit; Constant, 0.95 for this calculation.
    CoC = Chance of a confirmed Crit; Constant, 0.3*0.95 = 0.285 for this Calculation
    CoCOC = Chance of a Confirmed Overwhelming Crit; Constant, 0.095 for this Calculation
    Dproc = Damage that is from procs or otherwise not multiplied on a crit.
    CM = Critical Multiplier; Constant, 3 for this Calculation
    OCM = Overwhelming Critical Multiplier; 4 for this calculation

    D = MD*(CoH-CoC)+MD*CM*(CoC-CoCOC)+MD*OCM*(CoCOC)+Dproc
    Factor out the MD and get
    D = MD*((CoH-CoC)+CM*(CoC-CoCOC)+OCM*(CoCOC))+Dproc
    Above is the basic damage calculation. Now plug in the Constants
    D = MD*((0.95-0.285)+3*(0.285-.095)+4*(0.095))+Dproc
    D = MD*1.615+Dproc
    And without OC we get
    D = MD*((0.95-0.285)+3*(0.285-.095)+3*(0.095))+Dproc
    D = MD*1.52+Dproc

    1.615 / 1.52 = 1.0625
    Thus OC is worth about 6% additional physical damage on normal attacks with the swashbuckling line on non-Light Picks. This is the same as a Longbow on a monkcher who is using LD and earth stance btw, which I find quite interesting.

    With picks
    With OC
    D = MD*((0.95-0.19)+4*(0.19-.095)+5*(0.095))+Dproc
    D = MD*1.615+Dproc
    Without OC
    D = MD*((0.95-0.19)+4*(0.19-.095)+4*(0.095))+Dproc
    D = MD*1.52+Dproc

    This means, disregarding special attacks or things from ED’s, that the crit profile of the weapons in swashbuckler stance are all equivalent, so you can use your favorite weapon or a named weapon with an improved profile as much as you want. I like this, it allows for more flexibility with toons appearance and for better choices as to what to hit bosses with.

    OC is worth about 6% damage with these weapons, which means it is worth it on most dps max builds IMO.

    With Balizarde,
    D = MD*((0.95-0.285)+4*(0.285-.095)+5*(0.095))+Dproc
    D = MD*1.9+Dproc
    And without OC we get
    D = MD*((0.95-0.285)+4*(0.285-.095)+4*(0.095))+Dproc
    D = MD*1.805+Dproc
    1.052, so about 5.2% more physical damage with OC
    OC and Divine Crusader
    D = MD*((0.95-0.38)+4*(0.38-.095)+5*(0.095))+Dproc
    D = MD*2.185+Dproc
    OC and LD
    D = MD*((0.95-0.285)+4*(0.285-.095)+6*(0.095))+Dproc
    D = MD*1.995+Dproc

    1.9/1.805 = 1.0526; Thus OC is worth about 5% additional damage with Balizarde.

    For comparative purposes,
    Centered Kensi ESoS, Earth Stance t3 and OC in Divine Crusader(also Seirth for stick builds)
    D = MD*((0.95-0.475)+3*(0.475-0.095)+5*(0.095))+Dproc
    D = MD*2.09+Dproc
    Centered Kensi Great Axe, Earth Stance t3 and OC in LD(Headman’s chop)
    D = MD*((0.95-0.19)+3*(0.19-0.095)+7*(0.095))+Dproc
    D = MD*1.71+Dproc
    Fury Monkcher, Earth Stance t3 and OC (Thunderholme, Most bows)
    D = MD*((0.95-0.095)+3*(0.095-0.095)+5*(0.095))+Dproc
    D = MD*1.33+Dproc
    Fury Monkcher, Earth Stance t3 and OC (Pinion, Unwavering Ardancy)
    D = MD*((0.95-0.19)+3*(0.19-0.095)+5*(0.095))+Dproc
    D = MD*1.52+Dproc

    Thus I am very excited for the upcoming shift in the physical damage meta

    Happy questing all!

  2. #2
    Community Member GreataxeUser's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014

    Default So Op it breaks the game! Average of a 10 and with so many swings per second =Broken

    It is Over powered to get a threat +1 added if we do not roll a crit. The average is going to be a roll of a 10 on a 1d20 to crit with so many swings per second in this game, it is insane that this exists. In PnP we rolled a d20 not that often and it was good, but in this online version of it rolling a d20 becomes so often in a second that it trivializes it and this new build capitalises on this flaw for a video game to the point that it is ridiculous to not take this build and play it. OMG! The game just became too easy to play and is going to become borked overnight.

    It breaks the game imo.
    Last edited by GreataxeUser; 06-11-2014 at 02:45 AM.

  3. #3
    Community Member ilhares's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    The Frigid Wastes.


    While I can see your concern over it, the only things I've played that were more squishy than my bard were a sorc and a rogue (somehow my wizard is tougher). I absolutely detested bards in the past. The swash line, even with the expanded crit (thanks to Exploit Weakness) is the first time that it's actually proven not only fun, but rather effective as well. My loss is that I get nothing in my other hand as a part of that tradeoff, because the open-hand style is more appealing for me.

    Yes indeed, it is powerful. I still splat when something hits me, though. It's nice to dole out some pain before I do.

  4. #4
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2013


    You are waaaaaaay overcomplicating things.

    OC just adds 1x your critable damage on 10% of your rolls. It doesn't really matter what your crit multiplier was. It doesn't matter what your crit range was.
    If you swing for 60 and have 20 seeker and 10 from Burst... then OC adds an average of 9 damage per swing. It's as simple as that.

  5. #5
    Hopeless Romantic dunklezhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Yorkshire Toxic Fringe Zone


    I'm a bit concerned for the potential to abuse Swashbuckler with shallow bard splashes (it would appear the fundamental lesson from too much front loading on Rangers and Monks still has not been learned), but on a pure bard? There's nothing wrong with this at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    The best of the best DDO players generally overperform when given a real challenge

  6. #6


    Quote Originally Posted by dunklezhan View Post
    I'm a bit concerned for the potential to abuse Swashbuckler with shallow bard splashes (it would appear the fundamental lesson from too much front loading on Rangers and Monks still has not been learned), but on a pure bard? There's nothing wrong with this at all.
    From what I understand, your concern of abusing the Swashbuckler abilities by other classes was resolved by the developers making the Single Weapon Fighting feats mutually exclusive to the Two Weapon Fighting feats. You can't train both.

    For Rangers (who gain TWF automatically), SWF should be permanently locked out (I believe a known bug allows it at present). For most Monks it makes little sense to use SWF since they often fight unarmed and gain significant advantages with TWF feats, armed or unarmed.
    Editor, The Book of Syncletica: An unofficial DDO Monk Guide, and Stormreach Shadows: An unofficial DDO Stealth Guide
    The Order of Syncletica: A DDO-flavored blog on Monks and gameplay and more
    (formerly known as Spencerian)

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