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  1. #1
    Community Member Grimlock's Avatar
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    Default Lesser Reincarnation Restriction

    Background:

    I am attempting to finish maxing out some destinies. Specifically Exalted Angel, DI, Magister, and Shiradi. My character doing this is a 12/6/2 Bladeforged Kensai Fighter/Monk/Paladin. I began this by Epic Reincarnating to level 20 in order to pick up a martial Epic Past Life Feat, taking me a step closer towards Epic Completionist if I choose to go down that path.

    Current State:

    I leveled back up to 20 - unable to change anything on my character save feats/skills/enhancements at this point. Quickly picking random skills/feats to expedite this process I am now sitting at Level 20 post ETR.

    My goal was to Lesser Reincarnate such that I could end up back at level 20 with the following split: 16 Sorc 2 Monk 2 Paladin and grind out my remaining destinies and then switch back via ETR to my Kensai build.

    Here are my options:

    1. Spend 4600 Turbine Points for two +5 Lesser Reincarnation Hearts of Wood and one +3 Lesser Reincarnation Heart of wood to move over all 12 levels of Fighter and distribute these into Monk or Paladin classes. At this point I am unable to add in any Sorcerer class levels because of this restriction on Lesser Reincarnation that only allows you to take +X number of levels that are "potential" classes meaning ones you currently have, or if you only have 1 or 2 class levels you are only then allowed to take a new class bringing your total to 3 maximum classes at any given point. I cannot justify spending $30-40 for allowing me to make the 16/2/2 split I want for purely grinding remaining Epic Destinies, which brings me to options 2/3:

    2. Spend ~2800 Turbine Points for a +5 and a +1 Heart shifting over my 6 Monk levels to Paladin, and then making use of the +20 Lesser Heart we all got in November/December of last year or whenever that was so create a 18 Sorc 2 Paladin split - not what I wanted.

    3. Spend ~1400 Turbine Points for a +3 Heart to shift over my 2 levels of Paladin to Monk. This is the cheapest option and once shifted, I can then use my +20 Lesser Heart to add in my Sorcerer levels and end up with an 18 Sorc 2 Monk split. Without the Paladin levels my reflex save will likely suck and perhaps on EH come in handy once in a great while. Again, not what I want.

    I am very frustrated Turbine has crafted this system around Lesser Reincarnation such that you can only have a max of 3 "potential" or existing class levels. I feel as if we have any heart +X you can add in a new class level as long as your final build upon finishing Reincarnation has a max of 3 class levels.

    This speaks to a coding issue with the reincarnation system and the inability to place logic in the code to ignore any existing lives and only set the max level of 3 classes when you take your final level of 20.

    I would very much appreciate some developer feedback on why this issue exists and if there are plans to remove this restriction. It is incredibly frustrating that my only options are to spend a very large number of Turbine Points and go through the extremely annoying level up process again and again and again just to change some classes around.

    It has been a struggle just to figure out how this process works and what these restrictions mean so that I can figure out exactly what my options are. I would love nothing more than to just use my +20 heart and redo my entire class list to end up with the 16/2/2 Sorc/Monk/Paladin split I want rather than Turbine require me to spend a lot of money just to make this happen.

    In my years of playing this game since release I have only seen 1 +X heart drop. Ever. They have never appeared in Daily Dice, nor are they even remotely common chest drops. If they were populated more frequently in loot tables that would not be an issue, but I still feel as if this silly 3 level "potential" restriction is silly and needs to be removed.
    ~ Archangels ~
    Grimmlock (Heroic Completionist Life 15); Saulot (Life 3); Leviathian (Life 5); Flogging Molly; Mithriss; TheBoondock Saynts; Bushmils; Humblebeard; Guinnesss.
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  2. #2
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Is there some reason you didn't list:

    4. Level to cap, ITR into BF sorc 16 / monk 2 / pal 2, finish ERs, ITR again back into 12/6/2.

    5. Grind out remaining EDs with current 12/6/2 char.

    None of your options are ideal, but unless you want to park this char until Turbine "fixes" LRing the way you want it to work, I don't see what other options you have.

  3. #3
    Community Member Grimlock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Is there some reason you didn't list:

    4. Level to cap, ITR into BF sorc 16 / monk 2 / pal 2, finish ERs, ITR again back into 12/6/2.

    5. Grind out remaining EDs with current 12/6/2 char.

    None of your options are ideal, but unless you want to park this char until Turbine "fixes" LRing the way you want it to work, I don't see what other options you have.
    4. Not an option as ITR past life feats are worthless and do not count towards Epic Completionist (I think). I need Epic Past Life feats.

    5. I have no desire to take my bladeforged Kensai into EH/EE quests while on destinies that offer next to nothing for help while doing so. My goal is to quickly grind these out and the most efficient way to do this is on a caster character.
    ~ Archangels ~
    Grimmlock (Heroic Completionist Life 15); Saulot (Life 3); Leviathian (Life 5); Flogging Molly; Mithriss; TheBoondock Saynts; Bushmils; Humblebeard; Guinnesss.
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  4. #4
    Community Member jortann's Avatar
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    You can involve 4 classes in a LR. It just requires you to replace one of the classes with one of the other two before you add the fourth.

    For example if you took your 2 monk levels at level 1 and level 2, when you LR if you replace those 2 levels with paladin first, then you will be at 2 classes .... paladin and fighter. Then you can add in sorc.

    Depending on what order you took your classes it maybe doable.
    Quote Originally Posted by The-Last-Wolf View Post
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  5. #5
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimlock View Post
    4. Not an option as ITR past life feats are worthless and do not count towards Epic Completionist (I think). I need Epic Past Life feats.
    In this case, the goal of double-ITRing would not be for the PLs, but simply as being the least painful option to convert a F12 / M6 / P2 into S16 / P2 / M2, then back again when you're done ER-farming. Particularly if Turbine implements this change to make acquiring Heart Seeds less of a grind. I'm presuming any DDO vet worth his salt can level from 15 back to 20 in less time than it takes me to sort my bagspace.

  6. #6
    Community Member PsychoBlonde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimlock View Post

    I am very frustrated Turbine has crafted this system around Lesser Reincarnation such that you can only have a max of 3 "potential" or existing class levels. I feel as if we have any heart +X you can add in a new class level as long as your final build upon finishing Reincarnation has a max of 3 class levels.
    The entire game is built to prevent you from EVER having more than 3 classes. In order for them to allow you to do a lesser in this way they would literally have to have some way of MAKING THE GAME PSYCHIC so that it can read your mind and "know" that you "plan" on swapping those later levels.

    Now, there ARE some ways they could do this, but they'd have to rewrite the way reincarnation leveling is done FROM SCRATCH. That's not a minor undertaking. It's not a matter of throwing in a couple of lines of code. They'd have to build a system where you choose and confirm all of your level changes prior to leveling through them. With the current leveling method of taking one level at a time and making the relevant choices for that level at that time it's impossible for the system to be any other way.

    Is it really so hard to plan ahead a bit and say, huh, if I plan to LR to make leveling destinies/whatever easier, MAYBE I SHOULD RESTRICT MYSELF TO TWO CLASSES. If you don't plan ahead, you get to pay for the privilege of re-speccing without TRing.

    Considering there's a 3 day timer on it you could probably just TR and be back to 20 in the time it'd take to make all those lesser reincarnations. AND you'd have an extra past life under your belt.
    I edited a book!

    Thelanis player: Arekkeh, Kimberlei (heroic completionist), Lehren (heroic/epic completionist), Natheme, Terpsikhore

  7. #7
    Community Member Grimlock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoBlonde View Post
    The entire game is built to prevent you from EVER having more than 3 classes. In order for them to allow you to do a lesser in this way they would literally have to have some way of MAKING THE GAME PSYCHIC so that it can read your mind and "know" that you "plan" on swapping those later levels.

    Now, there ARE some ways they could do this, but they'd have to rewrite the way reincarnation leveling is done FROM SCRATCH. That's not a minor undertaking. It's not a matter of throwing in a couple of lines of code. They'd have to build a system where you choose and confirm all of your level changes prior to leveling through them. With the current leveling method of taking one level at a time and making the relevant choices for that level at that time it's impossible for the system to be any other way.

    Is it really so hard to plan ahead a bit and say, huh, if I plan to LR to make leveling destinies/whatever easier, MAYBE I SHOULD RESTRICT MYSELF TO TWO CLASSES. If you don't plan ahead, you get to pay for the privilege of re-speccing without TRing.

    Considering there's a 3 day timer on it you could probably just TR and be back to 20 in the time it'd take to make all those lesser reincarnations. AND you'd have an extra past life under your belt.
    You have a good point except for 2 factors:

    1. I have completionist plus a few extra past lives on top of that. TR does me no good, but I would consider it an option if...

    2. I am bladeforged so I cannot Heroic TR. The only option for Reincarnation as an Iconic Class is to Iconic Reincarnate and forgo your Epic Past Life and credit towards Epic Completionist and start over fresh at level 15.

    If I could Heroic True Reincarnate now at level 20 I would be fine with that. Grinding 15-20 takes maybe a week for me to do - longer depending on work and my schedule outside of game. Grinding is not the issue - it is second hand nature after so many past lives.
    ~ Archangels ~
    Grimmlock (Heroic Completionist Life 15); Saulot (Life 3); Leviathian (Life 5); Flogging Molly; Mithriss; TheBoondock Saynts; Bushmils; Humblebeard; Guinnesss.
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  8. #8
    Community Member Grimlock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    In this case, the goal of double-ITRing would not be for the PLs, but simply as being the least painful option to convert a F12 / M6 / P2 into S16 / P2 / M2, then back again when you're done ER-farming. Particularly if Turbine implements this change to make acquiring Heart Seeds less of a grind. I'm presuming any DDO vet worth his salt can level from 15 back to 20 in less time than it takes me to sort my bagspace.

    Iconic True Reincarnating grants your past life related to your race and the associated Heroic Past Life feat and allows you to start at level 15 again if you wish.

    If Turbine allowed an Iconic character to undergo Epic True Reincarnation taking them back to 20 and from there allowed you to Heroic True Reincarnate no matter what race you are to level 1 or 15 that would be fine by me. I also would like to see the Lesser Reincarnation change such that there is no such thing as a potential class. You might get the option to select the same class you happened to take your previous life, but this does not count towards anything. The end result is the same - you end back up at level 20 with a maximum of 3 class levels.
    ~ Archangels ~
    Grimmlock (Heroic Completionist Life 15); Saulot (Life 3); Leviathian (Life 5); Flogging Molly; Mithriss; TheBoondock Saynts; Bushmils; Humblebeard; Guinnesss.
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  9. #9
    Community Member jortann's Avatar
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    Grim,

    Do you remember the order you took the levels in? Post them if you do. There may be a way to do it.
    Quote Originally Posted by The-Last-Wolf View Post
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    Toons on Thelanis... Bairclaw, Icemaachine, Slydawg, Tazzster

  10. #10
    Community Member Grimlock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jortann View Post
    Grim,

    Do you remember the order you took the levels in? Post them if you do. There may be a way to do it.
    I actually opened up a ticket while undergoing a +3 lesser heart Reincarnation to find out my order.

    I could not remember it to save my life :-) I do remember that level 1 and level 11 were paladin levels while the rest was a mixture of fighter/monk.

    I made it back up to 20 burning off my 2 paladin lives and ended up with 11 fighter 9 monk. I am now on a timer for 3 days - another retarded "feature" of lesser reincarnating until I can use my +20. I decided to just say screw it and go pure sorcerer on my bladeforged. With completionist under my belt and a lot of experience playing casters I just want to annihilate things until these destinies are capped.

    Ultimately going with a +3 lesser heart was my cheapest option for what I wanted to do.
    ~ Archangels ~
    Grimmlock (Heroic Completionist Life 15); Saulot (Life 3); Leviathian (Life 5); Flogging Molly; Mithriss; TheBoondock Saynts; Bushmils; Humblebeard; Guinnesss.
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  11. #11
    Community Member PsychoBlonde's Avatar
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    It would really be better if they had a UI where you could review and "lock in" your swap levels prior to actually leveling. It would make this whole process a lot less of a headache.
    I edited a book!

    Thelanis player: Arekkeh, Kimberlei (heroic completionist), Lehren (heroic/epic completionist), Natheme, Terpsikhore

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