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  1. #181
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    i would prefer to have coms and seeds drop in epic chests, but a sane return rate of seeds(albeit at cap) is a pleasant surprise. maybe i will epic tr in future after all.

    feels good to post a smiley for a change.

    thank you

  2. #182
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    I love this! It's great to know that the players have been heard, and the grind has become within the reach of a normal human being. Thank you for listening!

    On a semi-related note, could you take a look at EPL feats? Full stacks of Divine past life feats is way, way too strong. 3 stacks of +3 prr from 3 different divine past life feats is +27 prr. Primal and Arcane might need a glance too. Main problem is that the bonuses kick in at level 1 and have no build cost associated with them. Perhaps they can kick in at level 21? Ask the code peeps if they can have a flavor text EPL feat for level 1. When the first Epic Level is taken, have it check for the flavor EPL. If found, autogrant the proper bonuses.

    ETRs are far, far easier to grind out than HTRs because an amazing build never needs to be tossed away and your gear is relevant for all if them. If you have a top-tier, fully geared Monk, that all changes when you need to run a bard life. In ETR, you can make the same build choices for your character, never need to update gear, and have your build work as well as it did the first time, once you account for differences in ED. Thus, having an OP EPL is worse for balance than an OP passive HPL.
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  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    I'm good with it... It will make people happy... but Turbine will lose 100% of any income they were generating from the hearts, and it WILL remove any incentive to run Epic Elite quests... So there may be some negative consequences. Oh well...
    i think turbine has (smartly) realized that a system that keeps players playing isnt something they should be trying to monetize to such a large extent. just isnt a good business move. besides, they were definitely losing more income from upset players than they were gaining from heart sales. im also suspecting that heart sales were much weaker than we all think. They need to start monetizing things players are willing to pay for...cosmetics, consumables, new content, convenience items, ect. i have so many ideas for items players would throw money at with minimal development time...and always wonder why they aren't introduced.
    Last edited by axel15810; 06-11-2014 at 12:16 AM.

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin-ator View Post

    On a semi-related note, could you take a look at EPL feats? Full stacks of Divine past life feats is way, way too strong. 3 stacks of +3 prr from 3 different divine past life feats is +27 prr. Primal and Arcane might need a glance too. Main problem is that the bonuses kick in at level 1 and have no build cost associated with them. Perhaps they can kick in at level 21? Ask the code peeps if they can have a flavor text EPL feat for level 1. When the first Epic Level is taken, have it check for the flavor EPL. If found, autogrant the proper bonuses.

    ETRs are far, far easier to grind out than HTRs because an amazing build never needs to be tossed away and your gear is relevant for all if them. If you have a top-tier, fully geared Monk, that all changes when you need to run a bard life. In ETR, you can make the same build choices for your character, never need to update gear, and have your build work as well as it did the first time, once you account for differences in ED. Thus, having an OP EPL is worse for balance than an OP passive HPL.
    I don't support this in anyway, it is like saying level 150 ship buffs is way too powerful for level 1 so I want them prevented from using ship buffs till level 15. 27 prr, isn't that around 15% damage reduction? Not exactly game breaking is it.
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  5. #185
    Community Member TheGuyYouKnow's Avatar
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    honestly it seems too easy, even if your running good xp quests you have 2k comms by cap, then its just 10 more quests for an ER?
    im all for making heart a bit easier to get but it seems like too much
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  6. #186
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    This is not the simplest solution. The simplest solution is just to lower the CoV cost to TR. Still never really understood why 4200 is the magic number, except for being 100 times larger than the answer to 'what's six times seven'.

    Still, as a fix, I'm FAR happier with 'more or less 20 runs and done' at cap as a general approach than in trying to hit that 4200 magic number. People may say it's too easy (which I think is because you can convert any CoVs you already have as well) but that's as long as it takes for a guaranteed name drop in a raid so has equivalence as a concept in the game already - and I like consistent concepts in complex systems, it keeps things understandable - and it is reachable without your brain bleeding out through your ears as you grind.

    Put it this way - I had a character at 26 when eTR came in. He's now only 27 and a bit, because as soon as the cov mechanic came in I went right off epic questing and just went back to standard TRing my other characters - because he was already 26. How long was I going to hafve to spend at cap to earn those Covs? awful. I'd now pick him up and play him again to get him to cap where the grind will be less.

    This doesn't help with the other problem with eTR, which is the way levels 20-25 are set up (i.e. where levelling is generally a one click affair). It is incredibly dull and disappointing to level through this bracket even when you are grinding out EDs for the first time (as I was reminded last night when my 1st life rogue hit 22. Ugh. pointless. May as well not be a level there. 15 hit points and a general skill boost? Woohoo. Yawn.), but at least you have the constant 'ping' of your EDs to keep you interested in how your character is advancing. When you do have your EDs, I really can't imagine how pointless it must seem - because I've completely avoided eTR for this reason too, and just carried on with heroic TRing my characters - I see no incentive worth putting myself through an epic grind with no choices to be made for at least half the levels involved, which are front loaded to boot.

    With the new mechanic I can be persuaded to at least give it a go once though, as I won't have to grind my face off just for the privilege of finding out.


    What I really don't get is why didn't you just use Tokens of the Twelve as the eTR collectible, or remove tokens of the twelve completely and just replace them with CoVs and base everything off that one mechanic, to save me having to remember what I need to grind for what, and that some things are only available from one world's quests etc. Normally I'm in favour of lore heavily influencing the game but honestly, the number of different collectibles & ingredients in this game is really properly silly.
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  7. #187
    Community Member blackdae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin-ator View Post
    I love this! It's great to know that the players have been heard, and the grind has become within the reach of a normal human being. Thank you for listening!

    On a semi-related note, could you take a look at EPL feats? Full stacks of Divine past life feats is way, way too strong. 3 stacks of +3 prr from 3 different divine past life feats is +27 prr. Primal and Arcane might need a glance too. Main problem is that the bonuses kick in at level 1 and have no build cost associated with them. Perhaps they can kick in at level 21? Ask the code peeps if they can have a flavor text EPL feat for level 1. When the first Epic Level is taken, have it check for the flavor EPL. If found, autogrant the proper bonuses.

    ETRs are far, far easier to grind out than HTRs because an amazing build never needs to be tossed away and your gear is relevant for all if them. If you have a top-tier, fully geared Monk, that all changes when you need to run a bard life. In ETR, you can make the same build choices for your character, never need to update gear, and have your build work as well as it did the first time, once you account for differences in ED. Thus, having an OP EPL is worse for balance than an OP passive HPL.
    Yeah.. 27 PRR is.. mmh wait.. 6.600.000 each life.. nine lives.. 59.400.000..
    You totally don't want to give someone all this benefit for that little effort needed..

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    Ill explain why they are making this change.
    They will sell more epic boxes because it will be easier to get epic heart when you are capped.
    So what? Personally i never bought any kind of box, nor will i, becouse i like to play the game. People that like to play will continue to support the game via VIP program or by purchasing whatever item from store.
    No one is forcing you to buy boxes, and if people want fast leveling, let them have it.
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  9. #189
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    This change is great news. If it is easier to get those seeds, more players will decide to eTR, and thus more activity on servers. Turbine has more active players, more purchases in store, will keep people busy for a while.
    Since it will be easy to do eTR, characters will get more power, and thus end game content must be made more difficult, but since they said rest of the year will have no new content, let's make epic Orchard brutal
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  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    I suggest 1 seed on EN/EH, 2 on EE.

    Even at 1 seed, you'd still get a heart plenty fast, considering you can still get comms along the way, too.

    This looks like solid idea. Rewards EE, while you can still run lower diff to get hearts fast enough.
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  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    I suggest 1 seed on EN/EH, 2 on EE.

    Even at 1 seed, you'd still get a heart plenty fast, considering you can still get comms along the way, too.
    Overall 1 definitely agree 1 heart is sufficient unless the devs want to effectively remove the ETR barrier completely and are willing to sacrifice the revenue. It will be really easy to get the hearts with 2 seeds per quest, but maybe that is the intention.

    I don't see any reason to give more for EE simply because if you are running EE you should already have plenty @ cap and be able to ETR without running additional quests.

    The reason I think this change is good is because all people regardless of the difficulty they run can focus on the content they want to focus on rather than having to play the max cov/min metagame which people didn't find fun. I think it's good for the game. Hopefully Turbine is rewarded with more revenue from it.

  12. #192
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    It boggles my mind to see so many posters arguing that it should only be 1 seed per quest.

    Hearts remain a stupid, artificial bottleneck on playing the game the way you want.

    Let it be 2. Truly. Forcing people to do 42 quests they don't enjoy and breeze through at cap is worse than 21 unchallenging quests quests they don't enjoy and breeze through at cap.

    If you want EE to be worth more seeds - fine, but don't ruin this potentially great change for everyone else.
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  13. #193

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    I **love** this change.

    I can pick up CoV during the run from 20 to 28, use them for Thunderforged crafting or have the option of Guild renown. It also gives me more reason to keep characters at 28 for getting Heart Seeds, other than just for the raiding / gear grind.

    I also approve of the 2 dropped per quest run. No need to lower it to just one.
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  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    I suggest 1 seed on EN/EH, 2 on EE.

    Even at 1 seed, you'd still get a heart plenty fast, considering you can still get comms along the way, too.
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeFury View Post
    This looks like solid idea. Rewards EE, while you can still run lower diff to get hearts fast enough.
    Disagree.

    The reward for EE was getting to cap a lot faster with more covs, so less (if you even need any at all) grinding at cap.

    Rather than a reward for EE, it would be a penalty for anyone doing EN/EH, which is supposed to be the norm. Not everyone can (or even wants) to play one of the few cookie-cutter builds that can handle EE consistently.

    I'm not saying monkchers or centered kensai bladeforged or whatever are the only builds able to do EE, but there are certain builds that dominate the EE scene and not everyone wants to play them.

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathdefy View Post
    It boggles my mind to see so many posters arguing that it should only be 1 seed per quest.

    Hearts remain a stupid, artificial bottleneck on playing the game the way you want.

    Let it be 2. Truly. Forcing people to do 42 quests they don't enjoy and breeze through at cap is worse than 21 unchallenging quests quests they don't enjoy and breeze through at cap.

    If you want EE to be worth more seeds - fine, but don't ruin this potentially great change for everyone else.
    I believe only 21 seeds is needed for etr, but I've always used covs so I don't know for sure.

    Anyhow you are right. I take back my support for just 1 seed. 2 seeds is fine.

  16. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathdefy View Post
    It boggles my mind to see so many posters arguing that it should only be 1 seed per quest.

    Hearts remain a stupid, artificial bottleneck on playing the game the way you want.

    Let it be 2. Truly. Forcing people to do 42 quests they don't enjoy and breeze through at cap is worse than 21 unchallenging quests quests they don't enjoy and breeze through at cap.

    If you want EE to be worth more seeds - fine, but don't ruin this potentially great change for everyone else.

    Agreed. Particularly with the new emphasis on renown and that there is no real end game while you're stuck at 28 getting your heart. I thought this was an ok compromise and am happy they are being what seems to be quite generous. Mind you if they ever do further crafting using CoVs like they said they would the difficult choice while leveling comes back again.
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  17. #197
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    Default All things point....

    I believe with this good change we will see more uses for COVs in the future and then everything will be a choice again
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  18. #198
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    Thumbs up

    Make it so.

    Carry on.
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  19. #199
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    I'm liking this idea

  20. #200
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    Good news.

    Combined with looking into balancing armor, buffing bards, and looking at paladins...this is good news.

    Haven't played in long time, might be time to check back in.

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