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  1. #81
    The Hatchery Sardonica's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Speaking as someone who has been very skeptical of the attractiveness of Epic Reincarnation from the get-go, I think this proposal is more than generous. With sagas available tomorrow, and faster way to earn heart seeds at cap (hopefully?) soon to follow, we may just see more players back in the game. And we want that!
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    Please upgrade from pitiful at least up to bad, maybe even all the way to mediocre.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    We've been looking for ways to improve the experience of earning Epic and Iconic Hearts of Wood. After several rounds of iteration with the Player's Council, this is the direction we're moving towards. (This would come some time after Update 22.)

    While your character is at level cap, completing epic quests adds 2 Heart Seeds into the End Reward list for that quest. This only applies to quests where Commendations of Valor already show up, including Epic Quests, on Normal, Hard, or Elite, that aren't ransacked.

    Some notes and explanations:

    • Reminder that you can turn 100 Bind-to-Character Commendations of Valor into 1 Bind-to-Account Heart Seed, and can turn in 42 Heart Seeds into either an Epic Heart of Wood or Iconic True Heart of Wood.
    • You'll continue to see Commendations of Valor in End Reward lists upon reaching level cap. This doesn't replace Commendations, but adds an additional End Reward choice.
    • This intentionally doesn’t affect Thunderforged Crafting or other existing or future uses of Commendations of Valor, only Reincarnation.
    • This doesn’t touch the current amounts players earn in any way. The players currently earninga full heart (or more) while they level up can keep doing that.


    We considered more complicated ideas, but we're not sure it’s necessary for the goal we’re trying to achieve, and this is an otherwise simple solution. For example, we could reward Elite over Normal, or reward high level quests over low level quests. But that's already true for Commendations of Valor, and this is intended as an extra aid for players who have hit the level cap and are in a rush to Reincarnate, yet haven't earned enough Commendations of Valor along the way.

    We're also aware some players might decide to only farm for Reincarnation at cap, and take other rewards while leveling up. If this partially devalues Commendations of Valor so other end-reward options feel like more viable choices, that's perhaps not inherently bad.

    As we realize Hearts of Wood are important to many of our players, we'd like to hear your feedback.

    Wow.


    thanks


    Really. This is big. thanks.


    P.S. Are you thinking about lowering the price of said hearts in the store? I doubt anyone will buy them for current price after this, but if you lower it singnificantly, it may become sought-after product...
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  3. #83
    Community Member Turbosilk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sardonica View Post
    Speaking as someone who has been very skeptical of the attractiveness of Epic Reincarnation from the get-go, I think this proposal is more than generous. With sagas available tomorrow, and faster way to earn heart seeds at cap (hopefully?) soon to follow, we may just see more players back in the game. And we want that!
    Endless TRs keep players wanting to play? I'm going to have to channel some Chai here and state content brings people in and keeps them. Not an endless hamster wheel of TRs.
    Turbosilk Boomstick
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  4. #84
    Community Member pHo3nix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by axel15810 View Post
    Dude, no. Rethink what you just posted.

    This change does not make the game any easier. All it is doing is reducing the grind, AKA repetitiveness involved in the reincarnation system. This is a good thing. Less time mindlessly grinding, more time doing what we want in game.
    It would be better if the difficulty had some impact on how many seeds you got. Who the hell is going to run 21 quests on EE when they can run 21 quests on EN and get the same reward?

    Anyway this is a step in the right direction and it will probably make iconics more appealing as well, cause TRing them won't be a pain anymore
    Cannith: Hazrael--Nyal--Thalax

  5. #85
    Community Member bbqzor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    While your character is at level cap, completing epic quests adds 2 Heart Seeds into the End Reward list for that quest. This only applies to quests where Commendations of Valor already show up, including Epic Quests, on Normal, Hard, or Elite, that aren't ransacked.
    ...
    We're also aware some players might decide to only farm for Reincarnation at cap, and take other rewards while leveling up. If this partially devalues Commendations of Valor so other end-reward options feel like more viable choices, that's perhaps not inherently bad.
    This. This is a good thing. Thanks for a good solution to many issues people had with the system. I agree with, and am satisfied with, this solution and the logic behind it. Yay.

  6. #86
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patang01 View Post
    As it was explained, there's already an incentive built into running things on higher diff for Valor. Personally this sounds good to me. It's a balance between those that run mostly at cap and to those that EE everything up until cap and then ETR right away.
    No.

    This removes any reason to run anything on elite.
    Gone.

    The best way now is to zerg EH wizking, spies, OOB, von3, von5 and ID, then repeat at normal, then zerg 21 easy EN quests at cap.

    Running EE is worthless waste of time, because EH/EN is more rewarding.

  7. #87
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Yeah I would say too big of a nerf bat. No reason to have hearts of wood anymore. Somebody runs 21 quick epic normal quest at cap which do not take much time to complete and they got it. Not sure why you had hearts to begin with, but this change will totally take them out of the equation.
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  8. #88
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    In addition, we also wanted feedback from all players, not just the Player's Council, which takes at least a couple more days. And we want to give players who don't necessarily check every day time to pipe in (for both the Council and the public at large), so a couple of days is on the shorter side we'd even consider.

    Basically, there's absolutely no way this makes U22. We proposed several other things that could have gone live earlier, but they didn't sufficiently solve the problem to our and the Player's Council satisfaction. And, of course, we're still taking feedback from you guys which could change the design.
    Epic elite is once again totally devalued. No reason to run quests on epic elite again.
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  9. #89
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    We've been looking for ways to improve the experience of earning Epic and Iconic Hearts of Wood. After several rounds of iteration with the Player's Council, this is the direction we're moving towards. (This would come some time after Update 22.)

    While your character is at level cap, completing epic quests adds 2 Heart Seeds into the End Reward list for that quest. This only applies to quests where Commendations of Valor already show up, including Epic Quests, on Normal, Hard, or Elite, that aren't ransacked.

    Some notes and explanations:

    • Reminder that you can turn 100 Bind-to-Character Commendations of Valor into 1 Bind-to-Account Heart Seed, and can turn in 42 Heart Seeds into either an Epic Heart of Wood or Iconic True Heart of Wood.
    • You'll continue to see Commendations of Valor in End Reward lists upon reaching level cap. This doesn't replace Commendations, but adds an additional End Reward choice.
    • This intentionally doesn’t affect Thunderforged Crafting or other existing or future uses of Commendations of Valor, only Reincarnation.
    • This doesn’t touch the current amounts players earn in any way. The players currently earninga full heart (or more) while they level up can keep doing that.


    We considered more complicated ideas, but we're not sure it’s necessary for the goal we’re trying to achieve, and this is an otherwise simple solution. For example, we could reward Elite over Normal, or reward high level quests over low level quests. But that's already true for Commendations of Valor, and this is intended as an extra aid for players who have hit the level cap and are in a rush to Reincarnate, yet haven't earned enough Commendations of Valor along the way.

    We're also aware some players might decide to only farm for Reincarnation at cap, and take other rewards while leveling up. If this partially devalues Commendations of Valor so other end-reward options feel like more viable choices, that's perhaps not inherently bad.

    As we realize Hearts of Wood are important to many of our players, we'd like to hear your feedback.
    Are you sure about this? I mean, its basically just like when you reach 20 and take a few days to farm 20 tokens. Its great that I can actually choose loot and renown over Comms, but you are practically giving the heart away. I assume this would help Turbine selling Otto's boxes and xp pots where, right now, leveling too fast and xp works against you trying to achieve at least most of the 4200? There must be some upcoming reasons besides upgrading raid gear and pots eventually coming to spend Comms on? Because we will go from coming up short by level 28 for a lot of us to having more than what we know what to do with them.

    I've been making this suggestion in other threads lately, but going through with this new change would make sense now to actually phase out tokens. We should now start spending Comms on heroic hearts of wood and retire Lahar. Make the cost about the same as what it would cost 20 tokens and do a change to challenge turn ins. Offer us a way to trade tokens in for Comms of equal value.

  10. #90

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    I don't understand the logic of this, though if it goes live my in-game experience will certainly be improved.

    If you want to make it that running 21 quests gives you a heart, why not just lower the heart prices to 2500 like you should have done when you introduced the system? Then you don't need to add seeds to the end reward lists at all.

  11. #91
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Epic elite is once again totally devalued. No reason to run quests on epic elite again.
    This too. Less incentive to run EE.

  12. #92
    2015 DDO Players Council B0ltdrag0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    No.

    This removes any reason to run anything on elite.
    Gone.

    The best way now is to zerg EH wizking, spies, OOB, von3, von5 and ID, then repeat at normal, then zerg 21 easy EN quests at cap.

    Running EE is worthless waste of time, because EH/EN is more rewarding.

    Your run difficult things to be challenged. Not for better stuff. If the challenge isn't enough for you, or you don't feel challenged then limit yourself in other ways.
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  13. #93
    Founder Raiderone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    In addition, we also wanted feedback from all players, not just the Player's Council, which takes at least a couple more days. And we want to give players who don't necessarily check every day time to pipe in (for both the Council and the public at large), so a couple of days is on the shorter side we'd even consider.

    Basically, there's absolutely no way this makes U22. We proposed several other things that could have gone live earlier, but they didn't sufficiently solve the problem to our and the Player's Council satisfaction. And, of course, we're still taking feedback from you guys which could change the design.
    Seems like a fair change. Reduces the grind. I always felt Epic Hearts of Wood should have been like Hearts of Wood (ie only 20).

  14. #94
    2015 DDO Players Council B0ltdrag0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Yeah I would say too big of a nerf bat. No reason to have hearts of wood anymore. Somebody runs 21 quick epic normal quest at cap which do not take much time to complete and they got it. Not sure why you had hearts to begin with, but this change will totally take them out of the equation.

    My eyes can only roll so far into the back of my head with this hyperbole. This is no different a scenario when we ground/grind for tokens for regular TR's. In fact it is a bit easier as you ear coms from 20-28...however the fact that it can be done quickly (after capping is done) is no different than the situation with regular hearts of wood, then, now, forever.
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  15. #95
    Community Member niehues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    No.

    This removes any reason to run anything on elite.
    Gone.

    The best way now is to zerg EH wizking, spies, OOB, von3, von5 and ID, then repeat at normal, then zerg 21 easy EN quests at cap.

    Running EE is worthless waste of time, because EH/EN is more rewarding.
    Im sorry.. i play for fun... and when i do EE is because of the fun it gives.. not for 10-15 extra covs at the end.. (yeah it is faster to run the quests u said on EH than 2 of them on EE some times)

    once again fun is the biggest reward u can have by playing a game.. if u dont feel pleasure playing.. why bother..

    they are doing this to help some ppl and it seems really good...

    its possible to today to dont even bother with any diff what so ever if u buy the heart from the store.. and that in terms also breaks your theory

    ..

  16. #96
    Community Member darkly_dreaming's Avatar
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    Thank you, and good job listening to feedback from the players. I do think that 2 heart seeds per quest is perhaps a bit high, 1 would have been fine and 2 on elite - but I'm not going to complain.
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  17. #97
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
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    Please put this into the game ASAP
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  18. #98
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B0ltdrag0n View Post
    Your run difficult things to be challenged. Not for better stuff. If the challenge isn't enough for you, or you don't feel challenged then limit yourself in other ways.
    You run challenge ONCE
    After you know you can do it, there is no more challenge in content.

  19. #99
    2015 DDO Players Council
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    Quote Originally Posted by pHo3nix View Post
    It would be better if the difficulty had some impact on how many seeds you got. Who the hell is going to run 21 quests on EE when they can run 21 quests on EN and get the same reward?
    I completely agree, I wrote a few paragraphs addressing this in my first post in this thread.

    Higher difficulties need to drop more heart seeds than lower difficuties. If it doesn't, this simply becomes dead time in game and they may as well just give us a heart since we won't have any reason to play at an appropriate difficulty level for our character - AKA no reason to play the game as it was intended to be played. It would ensure that multiple playstyles would be rewarded, instead of just one.
    Last edited by axel15810; 06-10-2014 at 01:07 PM.

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  20. #100
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    Are you sure about this? I mean, its basically just like when you reach 20 and take a few days to farm 20 tokens. Its great that I can actually choose loot and renown over Comms, but you are practically giving the heart away. I assume this would help Turbine selling Otto's boxes and xp pots where, right now, leveling too fast and xp works against you trying to achieve at least most of the 4200? There must be some upcoming reasons besides upgrading raid gear and pots eventually coming to spend Comms on? Because we will go from coming up short by level 28 for a lot of us to having more than what we know what to do with them.

    I've been making this suggestion in other threads lately, but going through with this new change would make sense now to actually phase out tokens. We should now start spending Comms on heroic hearts of wood and retire Lahar. Make the cost about the same as what it would cost 20 tokens and do a change to challenge turn ins. Offer us a way to trade tokens in for Comms of equal value.
    They are doing this because cap will be 30, and you will need 10 m xp to get there, do you think casuals will etr when you need 10m xp just to get to 30?

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