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Thread: Deflection

  1. #21
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoglum View Post
    Easy, just grunt! Maybe f a r t in the mic occasionally. Nobody will think you're a girl.
    I don't have a mic and I have occasionally heard guys say "Just like a girl" when I die in a quest on a female character. Blows my mind because I have never heard someone say "Just like a guy" or "just like a boy" when I die in a quest *ever*.

    And yes, I am a guy.


    Actually, my female characters die less often than my male characters, but that's because my FvS and Sorcerer are both female and my main melee character happens to be male.
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  2. #22
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    I get called:

    Bro, Pal, Mate, Son, Man, Boy, Mo, Munk, Enmo, Elitist, Jerk, (from here the list can devolve to words I'm not allowed to type on these forums)

    I don't particularly like being called boy or son, but at the same time I can appreciate that the person calling me by any of the above terms more often than not doesn't mean to offend. Also at the same time, some of the names I get called and can't repeat here are from people who are saying some offensive names completely in jest, with no mean intentions at all.

    As for getting sass for dying, I've been on the recieving end and giving end of that. Gender doesn't play into it, if someone dies (for stupid reason) they get sass.

    I don't know the specifics of your situation in game, but from the information you presented here it seems you're at least slightly forgetting that this is an MMO, you're playing a game with people from all over the world who have been raised differently and use different terms to address people.

    If you find something offensive and don't do anything to address it with that individual then yes you do have to shoulder some of the blame for ongoing offenses. (caveat this isn't true if said offenses were intentional, in that case the offender is a bad person and I'm sorry for you)

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by MeliCat View Post
    So recently I have been told by both a male person and a female person, that if a guy talks to me in a way that makes me feel uncomfortable then it's my fault that I haven't told him off more strongly.

    So for the particular example that this has recently come up for, I get called "honey", "hun", "dear", which doesn't seem a big enough deal to say anything about so I don't. But it makes me feel uncomfortable. I feel as if it's diminishing, belittling, and putting me in my place.

    I get comments like when I die or can't quite manage to do what I'm trying to do like "I'll be there in a sec", "I'll get to you in a moment" and other comments to the effect of that I am helpless and useless and unable to do anything for myself or the party. Again nothing you can really point out clearly and say I don't like that.

    And then there is the outright innuendo like he enjoys carrying my soulstone in his pocket, you fill in the dots. Everyone is laughing though so it's not like I can make a big deal about it. Again it's hard to say something in those situations - I am going to get no support from anyone else around.

    I'm used to just deflecting or evading and just smiling nicely and ignoring this. But at times it just gets too much. And none of the above seems that serious so it's hard to say something strongly enough. But he makes me feel uncomfortable. I know other people have talked to this person and the message hasn't got through. I can't squelch and move on unfortunately as he's very much within all the people I regularly play with. Problem is that none of those individual things seems *that* bad ... but the sum of the whole and every time... and yeah no... it makes me feel uncomfortable and it's very diminishing. I don't know how I would say something to them that would actually make sense and that they would hear. It doesn't sound like the other people around me understand.

    Chatting it over with friends from outside one said "to fix it, you will either need a protector to stand up [and talk to them], who can do it correctly.. or stand up yourself". Doesn't look like I have a protector in this so I guess it's me. Other comments were "we teach people how they treat us" - maybe they're right :/ Also "Offence is taken not given" - meaning yes, I am responsible for my own feelings and no one else; no one can *make* me feel anything - but it just gets tiring you know? He doesn't treat any of the guys like this. :/

    Suggestions welcomed as to how I can be clear and stand up :/.
    Kudos to you MeliCat for having the guts / "intestinal fortitude" to voice your concerns and seek a peaceful solution. I've spent years, along with my guild leader Paks, who is female, discussing interactions amongst guildies to ensure our guild is a comfortable place for all our guildies. We've always made our female guildies aware, during the recruitment phase, that they understand that REPORTING drama, is not drama. Any guildie can go to Paks or I privately to discuss an uncomfortable situation, and then we decide how we are going to handle it. Everyone needs to "enjoy their $15 a month." That policy has worked wonders each time it has come up (which thankfully is not often.)

    If you have a guild leader or an officer you trust, maybe you can bring it to their attention. If not, and this is something you feel more comfortable handling by yourself, Id get them into party, just with yourself, and having a heart to heart. Tell them why certain behaviors make you feel uncomfortable and that other than that, you enjoy running with them. See the response you get. You should know by this point if this is a player experience that will improve, or if it's time to find a new group of players that will perhaps treat you the way you feel you deserve to be treated. The game should be fun afterall, right?

    You sound like a valuable and reliable member of your group. Best of luck Meli!
    Last edited by LeslieWest_GuitarGod; 06-10-2014 at 05:44 PM.


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  4. #24
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeliCat View Post
    So recently I have been told by both a male person and a female person, that if a guy talks to me in a way that makes me feel uncomfortable then it's my fault that I haven't told him off more strongly.

    So for the particular example that this has recently come up for, I get called "honey", "hun", "dear", which doesn't seem a big enough deal to say anything about so I don't. But it makes me feel uncomfortable. I feel as if it's diminishing, belittling, and putting me in my place.

    I get comments like when I die or can't quite manage to do what I'm trying to do like "I'll be there in a sec", "I'll get to you in a moment" and other comments to the effect of that I am helpless and useless and unable to do anything for myself or the party. Again nothing you can really point out clearly and say I don't like that.

    And then there is the outright innuendo like he enjoys carrying my soulstone in his pocket, you fill in the dots. Everyone is laughing though so it's not like I can make a big deal about it. Again it's hard to say something in those situations - I am going to get no support from anyone else around.

    I'm used to just deflecting or evading and just smiling nicely and ignoring this. But at times it just gets too much. And none of the above seems that serious so it's hard to say something strongly enough. But he makes me feel uncomfortable. I know other people have talked to this person and the message hasn't got through. I can't squelch and move on unfortunately as he's very much within all the people I regularly play with. Problem is that none of those individual things seems *that* bad ... but the sum of the whole and every time... and yeah no... it makes me feel uncomfortable and it's very diminishing. I don't know how I would say something to them that would actually make sense and that they would hear. It doesn't sound like the other people around me understand.

    Chatting it over with friends from outside one said "to fix it, you will either need a protector to stand up [and talk to them], who can do it correctly.. or stand up yourself". Doesn't look like I have a protector in this so I guess it's me. Other comments were "we teach people how they treat us" - maybe they're right :/ Also "Offence is taken not given" - meaning yes, I am responsible for my own feelings and no one else; no one can *make* me feel anything - but it just gets tiring you know? He doesn't treat any of the guys like this. :/

    Suggestions welcomed as to how I can be clear and stand up :/.
    This is where you are messing up. You are encouraging more of the same. If you had instead said 'go firetruck yourself' he wouldn't have said it a second time.


    also this part
    Everyone is laughing though
    ...someone belittles you, your "friends" laugh at you because of that... Sounds like the kind of people you are better off without.

  5. #25
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    I can see how such words could be the norm for the offender. I'm southern and while I don't typically speak with the draw (comes out when I'm really tired) "Yes Mam" and "Yes Sir" could pretty much be considered apart of my DNA at this point. It's a manner of showing respect for others and yourself.

    However in this case where the words are used when you find yourself in a bad situation, and possibly only in such situations, I'd consider it belittlement. You could play without your mic and let everyone assume your a guy (safest bet), but that could be considered avoidance. Personally, unless you consider them friends and wish to keep them as friends, for whatever reason, block them and play with others if they don't stop after you voice your dislike. Maybe if you block them for a time and they see your serious, perhaps they will change. Perhaps not, in which case, what have you really lost?

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  6. #26
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    He may not realize his behavior is bothering you. You should tell him plainly what he is doing that is bothering you.


    I can offer you some advise I have given my wife that has made her game time more enjoyable.

    Tell the person in plain terms what behavior they are doing that is bothering you.
    If they persist, let them know that you will leave if they do not stop.
    If they do not stop, then leave even if it is in the middle of a quest.
    Let the other people you like to play the game with know you are leaving because of this other persons behavior. Also let them know that you enjoy playing the game with them and will be happy to do so if that person is not in the group.

    It may seem harsh, but you are here to have fun playing a game. If someone is interfering with you having fun playing a game, then they need to be removed from your game.

    Enjoy the game.

  7. #27
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    Never post threads late at night. :/ I realised how difficult articulating what it was that he was doing when I went to write that post - they are all just little things - it's the sum of the whole that is unpleasant. This is why it's so difficult to explain what is going on. As others have mentioned just being called friendly names like "Honey" is fine - if it's from a friend. It's all about context. Not just the individual things.



    After much thought I figure my only actions are :

    1) say something - at least give this person a chance. be specific and give examples.

    2) however as it's likely that as the reason he says this sort of stuff in the first place is that he has no respect for me he's unlikely to understand what i'm saying (ie he believes everything he is saying is justified and ok) so i have to be prepared to accept that saying something is going to do nothing.

    3) squelching is unrealistic - it makes it difficult for the group to function when raiding and it's not fair to the rest of the group when i can't interact effectively. similarly dropping group or avoiding groups is similarly ineffective - i would like to get raids done and play. so possibly my best option is to leave this group of people and find somewhere else to play. this group of people see no issues with his behaviour to me or to other women who obviously find him uncomfortable so it's going to continue. it's only a game and i see no reason to continue to put up with being uncomfortable so i may as well go elsewhere.

    i kind of don't want to. i'm kind of over all this rubbish. i just want to play ya'know?

    see how i go i guess.
    ~Thelanis ~ Khyber ~

  8. #28
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    Hi,

    When the way someone is treating you in group bothers you, I think it's best to tell them calmly and politely if you can. Mostly that will stop it, but there will be those rare times it blows up too, so be prepared for occasional bad responses.

    If someone dies and I have to move away from the group to help that person, I usually say 'brt' or something similar. The reason for that is to reassure the person that I am trying to help, not to make him or her feel bad. It's also to let other group members know what I'm doing so they can carry on with what they are doing.

    Similarly, if I die, I like hearing that help is on the way. You may feel a little silly dying sometimes, but I think unless someone is hassling you about it, you should give them the benefit of the doubt. Don't assume people are looking down on you for dying, it's generally just not that big of a deal.

    Thanks, and good luck.
    Astrican on Khyber

  9. #29
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeliCat View Post
    this group of people see no issues with his behaviour to me or to other women who obviously find him uncomfortable so it's going to continue.
    You need to find a group that respects you let alone others. If you don't this is only going to eat you and make you miserable.

    Quote Originally Posted by MeliCat View Post
    i kind of don't want to. i'm kind of over all this rubbish. i just want to play ya'know?
    You do, and I do understand. But how long are you just going to stick around and deal with what amounts to abuse to your own person?

    I realize this analogy may be blowing it out of proportions, but sticking around and dealing with the abuse "just because" is much like a spouse sticking around with someone that is abusing them.

    It is going to take strength to get up and go and start over. I make no joke about it, but you'll be healthier for it.

    Talk it out in the open with ALL of them. Note that first line of yours I quoted. If this is the case and it is all of them and they are unwilling to change, your game time will always be miserable. Don't let it become that. It can come to poison much more than just one game.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    You need to find a group that respects you let alone others. If you don't this is only going to eat you and make you miserable.


    You do, and I do understand. But how long are you just going to stick around and deal with what amounts to abuse to your own person?

    I realize this analogy may be blowing it out of proportions, but sticking around and dealing with the abuse "just because" is much like a spouse sticking around with someone that is abusing them.

    It is going to take strength to get up and go and start over. I make no joke about it, but you'll be healthier for it.

    Talk it out in the open with ALL of them. Note that first line of yours I quoted. If this is the case and it is all of them and they are unwilling to change, your game time will always be miserable. Don't let it become that. It can come to poison much more than just one game.

    You're being a little extreme relating it to spousal abuse but ty for the support. It's just a game and it's easy enough for me to move away. I would not say my game is "miserable". Just awkward and uncomfortable at times - it's not even that often in the big scheme of things.

    Yeah it's mild enough that in talking about it with others that they don't seem to understand why I find this uncomfortable. Or that other people who have the same problem. So I can see how they don't see it because they are a different type of person to me, or it just doesn't happen to them I guess. There are enough women that have had the same response as me over the years at least that I know I'm not the only one. I used to just brush it off and think "he's not that bad" but there are times I just can't.

    Probably I'll just move away. I guess I owe it to people to at least try talking to him first though.
    ~Thelanis ~ Khyber ~

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    Kudos to you MeliCat for having the guts / "intestinal fortitude" to voice your concerns and seek a peaceful solution. I've spent years, along with my guild leader Paks, who is female, discussing interactions amongst guildies to ensure our guild is a comfortable place for all our guildies. We've always made our female guildies aware, during the recruitment phase, that they understand that REPORTING drama, is not drama. Any guildie can go to Paks or I privately to discuss an uncomfortable situation, and then we decide how we are going to handle it. Everyone needs to "enjoy their $15 a month." That policy has worked wonders each time it has come up (which thankfully is not often.)

    If you have a guild leader or an officer you trust, maybe you can bring it to their attention. If not, and this is something you feel more comfortable handling by yourself, Id get them into party, just with yourself, and having a heart to heart. Tell them why certain behaviors make you feel uncomfortable and that other than that, you enjoy running with them. See the response you get. You should know by this point if this is a player experience that will improve, or if it's time to find a new group of players that will perhaps treat you the way you feel you deserve to be treated. The game should be fun afterall, right?

    You sound like a valuable and reliable member of your group. Best of luck Meli!
    This all over the place. I was in a group recently where someone was calling people hun and I thought 'Oh cool, a couple playing together.' Then someone else she chimed in as her partner, so I think she was 'Hon' calling guildies or people she played a lot with.

    Not my thing. I know how uncomfortable people can be about names, and I would be too if I was given some intimate pet name. When it has been directed at me, I just send a tell saying that was too uncomfortable for me and to have them please call me something degrading or my characters name.

  12. #32
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeliCat View Post
    You're being a little extreme relating it to spousal abuse but ty for the support. It's just a game and it's easy enough for me to move away. I would not say my game is "miserable". Just awkward and uncomfortable at times - it's not even that often in the big scheme of things.
    Perhaps, but both ends of it, the abuser and the victim, start somewhere.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathdefy View Post
    A big D&M would be super-awkward and he'd probably laugh it off.

    I'd suggest instead, each time he makes a comment, say something not so much confrontational as querying. Like you genuinely don't understand why he's speaking to you that way.
    "Would you call me darl if I was a guy?"
    "You realize I didn't die just because I'm a girl?"
    "You do appreciate my soul-stone is as erotic and feminine as a rock?"

    If he replies in a similar vein say that "You speak to me differently because I'm a girl and I don't love it" / "it weirds me out", etc.

    Then if it keeps going say "Whatever, res me already", or "Whatever, play the game man!" until next time it happens, then repeat.

    Side note: totally not your fault.
    Oh yeah good point. Yeah probably not much point talking to him.

    I like your suggested whatever comments.
    ~Thelanis ~ Khyber ~

  14. #34
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    Some of us enjoy playing with you and not the creepy way either. I hope I was always decent let me know if other wise. I will say as much as you die when I force you in to join me in EE, I have to come get you at some point. I am too gimp to solo it.

  15. #35
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    Block the person in-game after telling them why.

    This will have hilarious implications when you want to put an item up for roll, especially if you are secretly dualboxing another character in the group and can watch as they roll and you ignore it entirely.


    Another option is to let them know it's annoying you but keep grouping with them, then put up items for roll and leave a coveted item they win in the chest.
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeliCat View Post
    So recently I have been told by both a male person and a female person, that if a guy talks to me in a way that makes me feel uncomfortable then it's my fault that I haven't told him off more strongly.

    So for the particular example that this has recently come up for, I get called "honey", "hun", "dear", which doesn't seem a big enough deal to say anything about so I don't. But it makes me feel uncomfortable. I feel as if it's diminishing, belittling, and putting me in my place.

    I get comments like when I die or can't quite manage to do what I'm trying to do like "I'll be there in a sec", "I'll get to you in a moment" and other comments to the effect of that I am helpless and useless and unable to do anything for myself or the party. Again nothing you can really point out clearly and say I don't like that.

    And then there is the outright innuendo like he enjoys carrying my soulstone in his pocket, you fill in the dots. Everyone is laughing though so it's not like I can make a big deal about it. Again it's hard to say something in those situations - I am going to get no support from anyone else around.

    I'm used to just deflecting or evading and just smiling nicely and ignoring this. But at times it just gets too much. And none of the above seems that serious so it's hard to say something strongly enough. But he makes me feel uncomfortable. I know other people have talked to this person and the message hasn't got through. I can't squelch and move on unfortunately as he's very much within all the people I regularly play with. Problem is that none of those individual things seems *that* bad ... but the sum of the whole and every time... and yeah no... it makes me feel uncomfortable and it's very diminishing. I don't know how I would say something to them that would actually make sense and that they would hear. It doesn't sound like the other people around me understand.

    Chatting it over with friends from outside one said "to fix it, you will either need a protector to stand up [and talk to them], who can do it correctly.. or stand up yourself". Doesn't look like I have a protector in this so I guess it's me. Other comments were "we teach people how they treat us" - maybe they're right :/ Also "Offence is taken not given" - meaning yes, I am responsible for my own feelings and no one else; no one can *make* me feel anything - but it just gets tiring you know? He doesn't treat any of the guys like this. :/

    Suggestions welcomed as to how I can be clear and stand up :/.
    First world problems. Made me lol.

    Sincerly,
    a girl.

    p.s. if some dude thinks he can flirt with me while i am not interested... I tell him that if he gets close to me he will run around d**kless for the rest of his life, or he will find a 4 inch high heel in his upper leg. Most of the time makes them su.

    p.p.s. if people wanna joke about me being in someone's pocket.. I'll tell them the same mentioned in p.s.

    p.p.p.s. if it gets unbearable, i yell at them till they su... calling them names, making fun of their virginity, etc.. that makes them su...

    You are in an online world dominated by men. Quit or "fight" them but don't whine about it... seriously. Grow yourself some balls

    Loulani (17 Druid, 2 Monk, 1 Artificer): a healer who cc's (70 Evocation DC) and does traps (110 Disable Device, 107 Search)

  17. #37
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    I wanna (game) party with Derana! "**** and play." Hell yeah!

    *Purchasing V.I.P doesn't make you a V.I.P. Just a P.W.B (Player With Benifits)
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  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amundir View Post
    I wanna (game) party with Derana! "**** and play." Hell yeah!
    You wish. :P

    Loulani (17 Druid, 2 Monk, 1 Artificer): a healer who cc's (70 Evocation DC) and does traps (110 Disable Device, 107 Search)

  19. #39
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    How did I kill this thread?
    Server: Khyber.
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  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ykt View Post
    How did I kill this thread?
    Hopefully you are the white knight in that respect. If you did kill the thread... Thank you!

    men, women, boys, girls, and everything in between need to get a reality check sometimes that their emotions aren't the only things that make to world turn. There are support groups out there for people who need the positive reinforcement - places more appropriate than a game forum.
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