Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 42

Thread: Deflection

  1. #1
    2014 DDO Players Council
    Community Member
    MeliCat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    4,497

    Default Deflection

    So recently I have been told by both a male person and a female person, that if a guy talks to me in a way that makes me feel uncomfortable then it's my fault that I haven't told him off more strongly.

    So for the particular example that this has recently come up for, I get called "honey", "hun", "dear", which doesn't seem a big enough deal to say anything about so I don't. But it makes me feel uncomfortable. I feel as if it's diminishing, belittling, and putting me in my place.

    I get comments like when I die or can't quite manage to do what I'm trying to do like "I'll be there in a sec", "I'll get to you in a moment" and other comments to the effect of that I am helpless and useless and unable to do anything for myself or the party. Again nothing you can really point out clearly and say I don't like that.

    And then there is the outright innuendo like he enjoys carrying my soulstone in his pocket, you fill in the dots. Everyone is laughing though so it's not like I can make a big deal about it. Again it's hard to say something in those situations - I am going to get no support from anyone else around.

    I'm used to just deflecting or evading and just smiling nicely and ignoring this. But at times it just gets too much. And none of the above seems that serious so it's hard to say something strongly enough. But he makes me feel uncomfortable. I know other people have talked to this person and the message hasn't got through. I can't squelch and move on unfortunately as he's very much within all the people I regularly play with. Problem is that none of those individual things seems *that* bad ... but the sum of the whole and every time... and yeah no... it makes me feel uncomfortable and it's very diminishing. I don't know how I would say something to them that would actually make sense and that they would hear. It doesn't sound like the other people around me understand.

    Chatting it over with friends from outside one said "to fix it, you will either need a protector to stand up [and talk to them], who can do it correctly.. or stand up yourself". Doesn't look like I have a protector in this so I guess it's me. Other comments were "we teach people how they treat us" - maybe they're right :/ Also "Offence is taken not given" - meaning yes, I am responsible for my own feelings and no one else; no one can *make* me feel anything - but it just gets tiring you know? He doesn't treat any of the guys like this. :/

    Suggestions welcomed as to how I can be clear and stand up :/.
    ~ Khyber ~
    ~ Melicient ~ Melianny ~ Melinator ~ Melizzic ~ Melton ~ Melvanwy ~ Mellant ~ Melangst ~

  2. #2
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    work....
    Posts
    30,449

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MeliCat View Post
    So recently I have been told by both a male person and a female person, that if a guy talks to me in a way that makes me feel uncomfortable then it's my fault that I haven't told him off more strongly.
    Oh boy... in part this sounds like (I've limited experience in this manner.) the edge case of both ends and it means the one that suffers is you with little recourse.
    Note I said in part. Your last bit there is what caught my attention. I've no clue how you've tried to inform this party of it before, but that wording also has the phrasings of "blame the victim" to it as well. At least to me.

    You can tell them point blank without being profane about it and they will either back off or be an utter jack about it. I've witness the later directed at my wife. We left that guild.

    If they are unwilling to change and your friends are unwilling to back you on it, I hate to say it but the only thing I can think of is to not put yourself in that situation any more. (I seriously hope there are other things but I can't think of any.) They may call it running away, but it is also protecting yourself. We humans have the issue that we ignore our feelings/fear and because of such we get hurt.

    "Hunny", "hon", and "dear" are common nick names for others. Just as older people refer to younger males as "son". Some people take offence to that. How do they react to that? "Don't call me son. We are not related." and such.
    The innuendo... that is the hardest part. It sounds like you have had it directed at you instead of joking with you. Or at least that is how you feel. You have to tell them that it is upsetting you or in some cases it is none of their business what your personal life intales.

    But also know that any forthcoming inuendo from you will remove any "good" telling them would have done. Mixed signals you understand. (I'm not saying you are, just voicing something I've seen before. You can't have it both ways.)
    Last edited by Missing_Minds; 06-10-2014 at 08:17 AM.

  3. #3
    Micki's Delirium
    2014 DDO Players Council
    Micki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    [insert comment]
    Posts
    1,080

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MeliCat View Post
    "honey", "hun", "dear",
    So should I feel offended when women call me hun?

    As far as I know it's a typical American way.

    Quote Originally Posted by MeliCat View Post
    I get comments like when I die or can't quite manage to do what I'm trying to do like "I'll be there in a sec", "I'll get to you in a moment"
    To this I reply "don't worry about it".. then use a raise cake.

    Or if I'm happy piking for a bit, I just wait til them come get me and use the time to read stuff on my tablet.
    Read my blog: Micki's Delirium
    My characters: Micki's Delirium\Characters
    Follow me on Twitter: @DDOMicki
    YouTube: Thazara ofOrien

  4. #4
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Thelanis
    Posts
    4,901

    Default

    If you dont like something then say it.
    Why you making things more complicated?

  5. #5
    Community Member Acaios's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    115

    Default

    hey, dont worry hun, i`ll get to you in a moment
    Argo: Aldagor, Lenayaa, Ritsard, Blackbaron, Redfuryy, Asaske, Xyccon {Trolls Lair}

  6. #6
    Community Member Alisonique's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Spitting distance of Stonehenge
    Posts
    335

    Default

    Fwiw keep it simple, straight and to the point. If they back off/apologise then there may be hope for them. if they do not then they are jerks and if guildies need reporting to your Guild leader, if not guildies then leave that quest and squelch them, and report them to Their Guild leader. Its not right and it should not happen, and when it does it should be trampled on. My 2d.
    TYRS PALADIUM.....Officer. If you think there must be more to the game than pugging, come on and joinTYRS! Willibold Fighter/Wilibold monk /Tooflower monkftr/rogue /Hesteban fvs /Machiavehli druid/ Commabayou bard /Greenbolts ranger/Dramoh arti /Dragbat bard /Covemonster Paladin/A Pherzackerly wizard/Asimovsbayne barb/Pardoner/Cottelettedporc cleric/ftr /

  7. #7
    Community Member Deathdefy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Waiting in the lava pits to chain trip you on the way to Prison of the Planes
    Posts
    1,601

    Default

    A big D&M would be super-awkward and he'd probably laugh it off.

    I'd suggest instead, each time he makes a comment, say something not so much confrontational as querying. Like you genuinely don't understand why he's speaking to you that way.
    "Would you call me darl if I was a guy?"
    "You realize I didn't die just because I'm a girl?"
    "You do appreciate my soul-stone is as erotic and feminine as a rock?"

    If he replies in a similar vein say that "You speak to me differently because I'm a girl and I don't love it" / "it weirds me out", etc.

    Then if it keeps going say "Whatever, res me already", or "Whatever, play the game man!" until next time it happens, then repeat.

    Side note: totally not your fault.
    Khyber: Aggrim (Completionist!)
    In Von 3 the breakables in the Troll Ambassador optional room are slow to get to and unnecessary for ransack.
    Blind insta-kills floating eye balls.

  8. #8
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    752

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Micki View Post
    So should I feel offended when women call me hun?

    As far as I know it's a typical American way.
    If it makes you uncomfortable, then yes.

    As for the OP, I'd start by straight up asking "Please don't do X, or say Y"

    Because people are either genuinely unobservant and wouldn't continue if they knew you were uncomfortable. OR they're complete jerks that need to be added you your ignore list. One or the other, but in either case, you won't know until you ask.

  9. #9
    The Hatchery kierg10's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Toronto ON
    Posts
    1,418

    Default

    You could always scream leave me the **** alone over the mic......
    Ckarlock Alarm (PDK bard 7 fighter 6 rogue 2) life 17
    Dragonbloodz Power (Drow sorc 20/epic 8) life 6
    Sorinsal (Drow rogue 20/epic 5) life 2
    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    What I think is OP is anyone who uses implemented game mechanics, standard game features, or their own skill to be more effective in quests then I am - so I then find the time to post complaints about their use of implemented game mechanics, standard game features, or their own skill thus making me OP on the forums.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bridge_Dweller View Post
    Here's a new flash for the people who have not evolved and still play sponge toons: you serve no purpose. it's rude, but it's the truth. Divines are powerful, have been for a long time. They don't need you. If you need them you add no value to the group.

  10. #10
    Hero JOTMON's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Orillia, Ontario
    Posts
    7,292

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MeliCat View Post
    So recently I have been told by both a male person and a female person, that if a guy talks to me in a way that makes me feel uncomfortable then it's my fault that I haven't told him off more strongly.

    So for the particular example that this has recently come up for, I get called "honey", "hun", "dear", which doesn't seem a big enough deal to say anything about so I don't. But it makes me feel uncomfortable. I feel as if it's diminishing, belittling, and putting me in my place.

    I get comments like when I die or can't quite manage to do what I'm trying to do like "I'll be there in a sec", "I'll get to you in a moment" and other comments to the effect of that I am helpless and useless and unable to do anything for myself or the party. Again nothing you can really point out clearly and say I don't like that.

    And then there is the outright innuendo like he enjoys carrying my soulstone in his pocket, you fill in the dots. Everyone is laughing though so it's not like I can make a big deal about it. Again it's hard to say something in those situations - I am going to get no support from anyone else around.


    I'm used to just deflecting or evading and just smiling nicely and ignoring this. But at times it just gets too much. And none of the above seems that serious so it's hard to say something strongly enough. But he makes me feel uncomfortable. I know other people have talked to this person and the message hasn't got through. I can't squelch and move on unfortunately as he's very much within all the people I regularly play with. Problem is that none of those individual things seems *that* bad ... but the sum of the whole and every time... and yeah no... it makes me feel uncomfortable and it's very diminishing. I don't know how I would say something to them that would actually make sense and that they would hear. It doesn't sound like the other people around me understand.
    Its a tough situation for a lot of gamer girls.
    You have played this game long enough to know there are a lot of immature macho behind the keyboard overgorwn kids trying to be kool so they can impress others with their uberness..
    Sometimes they need to be knocked down a peg, sometimes they are just jerks.

    To be honest I read most of this as someone being oversensitive, "honey", "hun", "dear", ... pretty common from a lot of people...
    but the differrences can be subtle...
    If you feel like you are being targetted specifically by a particular person then you should send that person a tell and let them know their comments make you feel uncomfortable and it makes you reluctant to group with them.

    some people just have that creep factor...
    perhaps something like.. your comments are creeping me out like some weirdo pedafile, if you cant dial it back then I dont think I will continue to group with you by choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by MeliCat View Post
    Chatting it over with friends from outside one said "to fix it, you will either need a protector to stand up [and talk to them], who can do it correctly.. or stand up yourself". Doesn't look like I have a protector in this so I guess it's me. Other comments were "we teach people how they treat us" - maybe they're right :/ Also "Offence is taken not given" - meaning yes, I am responsible for my own feelings and no one else; no one can *make* me feel anything - but it just gets tiring you know? He doesn't treat any of the guys like this. :/

    Suggestions welcomed as to how I can be clear and stand up :/.
    You should never need a "protector"..
    a msg to the persons guild leader or someone who is friends with that person if a direct msg to them doesnt resolve it.

    You have every right to express yourself just like anyone else.

    This is a game we play to have fun at, sometimes at the expense of party members, but not to the point where people are made uncomfortable.
    Jotmon -
    Guild: Degenerate Matter - 200
    Argo-Jotmon(HC 28/42,EC 26/36,IC 17/15,RC 14/30), Jotlock(HC 38/42,EC 36/36,IC 15/15, RC 0/30)..
    and several once viable raiding alts dumped into the packmule stables..

    Update 24: Champions... "whew, it's ok, it's only a red name" .. sad day when trash spawn Champions and their one-shot ignore fort attacks instill more party fear than the Red named bosses.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Too bad I 'purchased' maximum character slots for my account, SSG has now chosen to cater the giveaway perks to benefit multiple freebie accounts instead of the paying customers.

  11. #11
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Seminole, FL
    Posts
    11,008

    Default

    Not your fault.

    But many people do not easily "get the hint."....

    As long as people think there is a chance to get something they want, they will continue to try.

    Just the way it is....


    Not all of what they want is bad... so don't judge them harshly.

    Many just want attention (first anyway).
    Many do not even know what they want... they just want something.
    Many do not think about consequences of their actions.
    Many do not understand how another person may feel about something.

    This does not make them bad.

    Neither side should make it more than it is.

    It is usually not anyone's fault.
    (unless you think desiring attention or special treatment from another human being, usually of the opposite sex, is wrong.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  12. #12
    Community Member IIVIIV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Jacksonville, Florida
    Posts
    36

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MeliCat View Post
    I get comments like when I die or can't quite manage to do what I'm trying to do like "I'll be there in a sec", "I'll get to you in a moment" and other comments to the effect of that I am helpless and useless and unable to do anything for myself or the party. Again nothing you can really point out clearly and say I don't like that.
    Would normally just call someone a gimp for this and leave them there for the remainder of the quest. But, that's just me.
    Smoking is one of the leading causes of statistics.
    - Fletcher Knebel
    No one dies a virgin, Life screws us all.
    -Daniel tosh

  13. #13
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    California
    Posts
    8,112

    Default

    From what I have read in the OP, you seem to want to avoid confrontation in personal relationships. As a person that also does not want this, I understand but in this case when you do feel uncomfortable with the situation you have to speak out.

    That does not mean belittling or bashing the person but right in that moment with a firm resolve simply state, I'm not comfortable with you talking to me in that way. You can also approach them separate from the Party and let them know that they make you uncomfortable with their comments. In a face to face conversation body language can be used to show how it makes a person uncomfortable and many can correct without being "talked" with, but over voice that part is lost, so you have to be forthcoming with that information.

    If the message does not get through it is then up to you to remove yourself from that situation - Sometimes that means finding a new set of people to run with.

  14. #14
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    802

    Default

    I am from Europe and quite frankly:

    I am GLAD that stuff like his is not really a topic in my country.

    So, someone calls you a hun or something? Ppl call me hun over the mic too. I never considered it bad and never thought bout it. if you do, ither ask him politely not to, or tell him you dont want him to call you that, or drop him or the group.

    Some ppl are ......... Thats fact. Some can change, some cant. Some grew in different enviroment then you did, some in different era. Its near impossible to explain 60 years old guy that the behaviour he was doing his entire life is incorrect. Or that what is totally okay in Italy (not my country) is not okay in MMO game.

    While playing MMO, you are entering international relationships. I have Chinese, Japanese, Europeans, Australan and few Americans in my guild. Heck, wouldnt be surprised if we get someone from India eventually. All these people believe in different things and culturaly are educated differently. You can either attack their beliefs, report them and became infamous, or you can ignore their actions. Or you can ask them not to do it.

    Some will stop. Some wont. Some will apologies. Some will laugh at you.

    Welcome in international game.
    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    Its also a hireling, it needs buffs to figure out what end the food goes in.
    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    Oh and Lol - Fortitude 57, Reflex 64, Will 55 {Godlike Saves!}.
    Quote Originally Posted by VCB View Post
    There are players that I wish could be improved to the point of being a hire.

  15. #15
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    4,363

    Default

    A lot of guys don't realize when they're doing something that makes a woman uncomfortable (especially over the internet where body language, etc. is more difficult or impossible to read). Saying something in a clear, straightforward manner to let that person know that they're being inappropriate or that they're making you uncomfortable will let them know so that they can change what they're doing if they want to stop making you uncomfortable.

    Some guys are just straight up jerks and whatever you say will just end up as fodder for their entertainment and nothing that you say will work to change their behavior.

    Thankfully, the first group is much bigger than the second group (even though the second group is sometimes more noticeable).
    No one in the world ever gets what they want
    And that is beautiful
    Everybody dies frustrated and sad
    And that is beautiful

  16. #16
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    802

    Default

    Also, I would like to add one thing:

    maybe I am not seeing something, but:
    When someone dies, and i am not next to him, I ALWAYS say stuff like:

    Be right there,
    Will get ya in a minute
    No worries, will get to ya.
    Happens, on my way to get ya.

    I am generally saying that in a light or focused voice. If someone dies for the 3 or more time during our gaming period, my voice is generally slightly amused.
    Yes, I sometimes die too....

    How for the love of Asmodeus is that wrong?!
    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    Its also a hireling, it needs buffs to figure out what end the food goes in.
    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    Oh and Lol - Fortitude 57, Reflex 64, Will 55 {Godlike Saves!}.
    Quote Originally Posted by VCB View Post
    There are players that I wish could be improved to the point of being a hire.

  17. #17
    The Hatchery Hoglum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    760

    Default

    Here's a potential solution. Roll up a boy cartoon and pretend to be a dude.

    It's easy, watch!

    Join a group and play for a while. Then, type in party chat, "hang on a sec, gotta scratch myself".

    After a couple more minutes, type, "AFK - beer run".

    Nobody in the world will call you "hun" at this point. Then, when you die, just say something like, "Hey, sorry, my gf is getting frisky here."

    See? Problem solved!

  18. #18
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    4,363

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoglum View Post
    Here's a potential solution. Roll up a boy cartoon and pretend to be a dude.

    It's easy, watch!

    Join a group and play for a while. Then, type in party chat, "hang on a sec, gotta scratch myself".

    After a couple more minutes, type, "AFK - beer run".

    Nobody in the world will call you "hun" at this point. Then, when you die, just say something like, "Hey, sorry, my gf is getting frisky here."

    See? Problem solved!
    That is harder to do if you use a mic for communicating.
    No one in the world ever gets what they want
    And that is beautiful
    Everybody dies frustrated and sad
    And that is beautiful

  19. #19
    Community Member Acaios's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    115

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoglum View Post
    Here's a potential solution. Roll up a boy cartoon and pretend to be a dude.

    It's easy, watch!

    Join a group and play for a while. Then, type in party chat, "hang on a sec, gotta scratch myself".

    After a couple more minutes, type, "AFK - beer run".

    Nobody in the world will call you "hun" at this point. Then, when you die, just say something like, "Hey, sorry, my gf is getting frisky here."

    See? Problem solved!
    what if they are into lesbian :P
    Argo: Aldagor, Lenayaa, Ritsard, Blackbaron, Redfuryy, Asaske, Xyccon {Trolls Lair}

  20. #20
    The Hatchery Hoglum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    760

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    That is harder to do if you use a mic for communicating.

    Easy, just grunt! Maybe burp in the mic occasionally. Nobody will think you're a girl.

    I don't get the lesbian comment though.
    Last edited by Hoglum; 06-10-2014 at 03:27 PM.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload