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Thread: Paladin Changes

  1. #641
    Community Member Psiandron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by die View Post
    when do these changes take place?
    They don't.

    We don't really even know what if any changes the devs are going to implement, much less when.

    Stay tuned for further developments.
    Quote Originally Posted by MalkavianX View Post
    and then dropped it like a burning kitten

  2. #642

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    Apologies for skipping dozens of pages of enlightened conversation......


    Why isn't the simple solution of just tweaking/improving Smites at the top of the list here?

    It's really at the core of what a Paladin is/does.

    All of this other stuff just seems distracting.
    "The sword itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with swords."



  3. #643
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DagazUlf View Post
    Apologies for skipping dozens of pages of enlightened conversation......


    Why isn't the simple solution of just tweaking/improving Smites at the top of the list here?.
    Its been said a lot by people in this thread and it looks like the dev's are at least thinking about it they haven't come out and said yes though.

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5363707

  4. #644

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    Quote Originally Posted by grailhawk View Post
    its been said a lot by brilliant people in this thread and it looks like the dev's are at least thinking about it they haven't come out and said yes though.
    ftfy.
    "The sword itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with swords."



  5. #645

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seikojin View Post
    I don't think the light damage should be dropped, however I think it should be increasable by something, say light spellpower. Similar to how bards swashbuckling can get buffs to their sonic damage procs via spellpower.
    The current light proposal was boosted by light spellpower as well as an ED innate boost mentioned by Sev.
    {At least I think it was, the spell power point may have not been made clear, or maybe it was discarded?}
    Yes, it was not perfect since paladins don't easily boost light spell power and I cannot comment on Sev's ED innate boost atm.

    So, the flat numbers would not have been the final numbers.
    A potency item like Heycon's Boots plus a spell power augment would have doubled the damage.
    The ED proposal would have double the damage too, I think.
    {Again not sure on the flux numbers here, and not sure but I guess 200+%.
    I should be able to mention thus, since Sev has talked about it.}


    Looks like we will see a replacement proposal sometime, I hope.
    If nothing replaces it that is better than the light damage, then I will withdrawn my support.


    Atm, I am pressing for bard, pally, and barbarian love.
    So I am glad we are seeing motions in those directions.
    Last edited by Silverleafeon; 06-24-2014 at 06:55 PM.

  6. #646
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    Quote Originally Posted by Severlin View Post
    . . . buffed by the melee buffs in the ED cores by another 120%.

    Sev~
    Nobody else caught this?

  7. #647
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bridge_Dweller View Post
    Nobody else caught this?
    I did and I don't like to wording. I don't like that it's attached to just some EDs in the Core abilities. Hopefully I'm wrong, but the way its worded I'm worried that Paladins are going to be forced into a certain ED if they want to buff Smites, but they must be in the US ED if they want to endless smites and smiting cooldown.

  8. #648

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    The reason why its attached in the inanities is in ED levels could increase, but innates would not.
    {Although I am the only one talking about ED increasing...}

    Core = +120
    Light spell power can we get to 180ish?
    Total boost = +300%

    As far as not being able to get the core boost, I cannot really say as that is NDA.
    But Sev is smart and reasonable so...


    At 20th level the Aura of Light increases to 3d6, or 6d6 with a two handed weapon or a shield bash.
    with +300 % boost a Pally with an ESoS or the like would be doing:
    Weapon damage + 24d6 light damage or there abouts.

    That is a nice amount, imho...which is why I am saddened to see this system going away.

  9. #649
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    The reason why its attached in the inanities is in ED levels could increase, but innates would not.
    {Although I am the only one talking about ED increasing...}

    Core = +120
    Light spell power can we get to 180ish?
    Total boost = +300%

    As far as not being able to get the core boost, I cannot really say as that is NDA.
    But Sev is smart and reasonable so...


    At 20th level the Aura of Light increases to 3d6, or 6d6 with a two handed weapon or a shield bash.
    with +300 % boost a Pally with an ESoS or the like would be doing:
    Weapon damage + 24d6 light damage or there abouts.

    That is a nice amount, imho...which is why I am saddened to see this system going away.
    The problem with the light damage is it hasn't been explained well at all.

    Would it just buff one divine core to 120% or all three? What about other EDs, they get nothing to help paladins? Would the light spell power also boost Divine Sacrifice, Champion of Good, Mabar augments, Mabar potions, Divine Light, etc.? Would paladins get spellcraft as a class skill? Does the damage multiply on crits?

  10. #650

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    I agree you folks deserve more knowledge on the subject.
    Sadly I am not at liberty to give it.

    Perhaps Sev could post?
    Or give us an alternative?

  11. #651

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    The reason why its attached in the inanities is in ED levels could increase, but innates would not.
    {Although I am the only one talking about ED increasing...}

    Core = +120
    Light spell power can we get to 180ish?
    Total boost = +300%

    As far as not being able to get the core boost, I cannot really say as that is NDA.
    But Sev is smart and reasonable so...


    At 20th level the Aura of Light increases to 3d6, or 6d6 with a two handed weapon or a shield bash.
    with +300 % boost a Pally with an ESoS or the like would be doing:
    Weapon damage + 24d6 light damage or there abouts.

    That is a nice amount, imho...which is why I am saddened to see this system going away.
    That amount is also close to Sneak Attack Damage, just without the poisons, the assassinates, the trees, the gear, evasion, and all of that other stuff. Who cares if Sneak Attack is conditional, that condition is relatively easy to obtain, just give this to the pallys already.

  12. #652

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    Quote Originally Posted by TromboneFireTurtle View Post
    That amount is also close to Sneak Attack Damage, just without the poisons, the assassinates, the trees, the gear, evasion, and all of that other stuff. Who cares if Sneak Attack is conditional, that condition is relatively easy to obtain, just give this to the pallys already.
    I would hesitate to give a self healing defender striker damage.

    It makes very little sense to me to create a sneak attack feature on a paladin anyway.
    However, if we made a blackguard tree, that probably would have sneak attack damage in it.

    Any one like that thought?
    Any one have a solution for offering blackguard but justifying that it is not evil as a character?

  13. #653
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    The reason why its attached in the inanities is in ED levels could increase, but innates would not.
    {Although I am the only one talking about ED increasing...}

    Core = +120
    Light spell power can we get to 180ish?
    Total boost = +300%

    As far as not being able to get the core boost, I cannot really say as that is NDA.
    But Sev is smart and reasonable so...


    At 20th level the Aura of Light increases to 3d6, or 6d6 with a two handed weapon or a shield bash.
    with +300 % boost a Pally with an ESoS or the like would be doing:
    Weapon damage + 24d6 light damage or there abouts.

    That is a nice amount, imho...which is why I am saddened to see this system going away.
    3d6 x 300% = 12-72, 42 avg damage
    6d6 x 300% = 24-144, 84 avg damage

    I'ts not bad but I would still rather see smites get better.

  14. #654
    Community Member Shaude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    Any one have a solution for offering blackguard but justifying that it is not evil as a character?
    Off the top of my head no. but thinking more about it...not really if still trying to follow p&n because it should cause the lockout of the other enhancements at the least, but other than that the changes to pally 'class feats' could be coded into the cores of the blackguard enhancement tree. and/or could give access to the some of the assassin tree instead of the other pally trees?

  15. #655
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    I would hesitate to give a self healing defender striker damage.

    It makes very little sense to me to create a sneak attack feature on a paladin anyway.
    However, if we made a blackguard tree, that probably would have sneak attack damage in it.

    Any one like that thought?
    Any one have a solution for offering blackguard but justifying that it is not evil as a character?
    Defender and striker are 4th edition things and I'm really not a fan of them at all. One of the great things about DDO is the customization of characters, one of my favourites in the past has been a tanky rogue. As long as you can lock out the really good defender stuff from the really good DPS stuff(put them both in tier 5 basically) things should work out fine.

    Assassins in DDO can be lawful good, they also don't get spell books and Pale Masters can also be lawful good. So I could roll up an Assassin/Pale Master/Sacred Defender if I wanted to already, the PnP argument doesn't really hold.

  16. #656
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    I would hesitate to give a self healing defender striker damage.

    It makes very little sense to me to create a sneak attack feature on a paladin anyway.
    However, if we made a blackguard tree, that probably would have sneak attack damage in it.

    Any one like that thought?
    Any one have a solution for offering blackguard but justifying that it is not evil as a character?
    Bone Knight is the PrC you are looking for, its an Eberron Paladin PrC more along the lines of WoW's Deathknight then the black knight of myth, but its any lawful not any evil.

    My sugestion was to combine current KotC with DoS and then include 2 more prcs, a Divine-fu tree built from ideas from the Fist of Raziel and Ruby Knight Vindicator while a third tree inspired by Bone Knight, Blackguard, and the Sword of the Arcane Order feat would serve as a caster PrE.

    Also someone mentioned giving paladins innate Battle blessing as basically free MM: Quicken to all spells. Yes.

    http://dndtools.eu/classes/fist-of-raziel/
    http://dndtools.eu/classes/ruby-knight-vindicator/

    http://dndtools.eu/classes/bone-knight/
    http://dndtools.eu/classes/blackguard/
    http://dndtools.eu/feats/champions-o...e-order--2875/

  17. #657
    Community Member Psiandron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    Any one have a solution for offering blackguard but justifying that it is not evil as a character?
    You know as well as anyone I'm sure that that just isn't possible. Evil is at the core of what a blackguard is.

    That said, there's always lying.
    How many books, stories, modules have you read that had a good necromancer in them? Playing god is traditionally frowned upon in most cultures.
    Oh yes and then there's the goody-two-shoes assassin. Yeah, that's pretty flippin' believable isn't it? ("I'm a monster.What I do is evil. I have no illusions about it, but it must be done". That's a great quote from an assassin who wholly believes that what he's doing is for the greater good. <the greater good>)

    So, blackguard in DDO requires no excuse or justification. IMO, anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by MalkavianX View Post
    and then dropped it like a burning kitten

  18. #658
    2015 DDO Players Council Seikojin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DagazUlf View Post
    Apologies for skipping dozens of pages of enlightened conversation......


    Why isn't the simple solution of just tweaking/improving Smites at the top of the list here?

    It's really at the core of what a Paladin is/does.

    All of this other stuff just seems distracting.
    Honestly, I have no idea why smites haven't been worked on with this discussion. I think smites should get various boosts based on their respective tree. Ones that proc healing (like ameliorating strike), buffs/debuffs, pumped by alignment/light/healing spellpower, etc.

    Also throw the build up with this stuff on Lam. I mean we can't see how awesome a concept is without a test bed to run it against. Like swf and swashbuckler.

  19. #659

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seikojin View Post
    Honestly, I have no idea why smites haven't been worked on with this discussion...
    They have been, just not to the point of reaching your ears, atm...

  20. #660
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    Any one have a solution for offering blackguard but justifying that it is not evil as a character?
    The normal D&D solution to that problem is to simply rename Blackguard into Gray Guard.

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