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Thread: Paladin Changes

  1. #401
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddong View Post
    Paladins need unlimited smites (on cool down similar to fvs... Is smite evil better than fvs smite/touch of death/stunning fist... No, so don't limit it) and swf with shields (give them dps when using a shield).
    smites regenerate and you can spend points to increase the number.

  2. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalevor View Post
    I really don't understant your point... There is no investment to wear a heavy armor or a shield? Really? Cap max DEX bonus and lose the possibility of Evasion is not enough loss? Then why is everybody running in pajamas??? There is NOT one single EE build wearing heavy armor and shield. Why?
    Because heavy armour is terrible right now and offers nothing, these will be some big changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalevor View Post
    1- No evasion means take high amounts of AoE damage. Evasion makes the life a lot more easy in EE.

    2- Dex cap = dodge cap ---> if you want this to round 10-15 you need to make a HEAVY INVESTMENT in enhacement points.

    3- Evasion is only 1 feat + high saves. Right now is really easy... split 2 monk/pally/rogue and its done... Staying pure rarely is better than split so...

    4- Damage mitigation is weaker than avoidance (dodge). Why? dodge is cumulative with other sources of avoidance to make it even higher... PRR is caped ... You can say... well, you can have the 2. But do some math or try some programs that emulate this and you'll see that is better to focuse in dodge and take PRR as u can because the other way is weaker.

    5- In orther to have high Ac you need to give up a lot of DPS. Enhacement and gear wise.

    6- High AC is near useless

    7- Heavy armor for warforge is 1 feat too...

    In summary, wear heavy armor and shield DOES require an investment of resources equal or higher than evasion, so why don't make it JUST AS USEFUL. What's wrong with more options??
    1- Yes evasion right now is great because there is no viable alternatives, that will change. The PRR equation scales up better so you will actually see a difference when getting higher values(buff to armour wearers) and MRR will double the effectiveness of it vs magic(which is a much bigger list of things than evasion covers) if wearing a heavy/tower shield. A shield, not including buckler is a big inconvenience to melees, impossible for some ranged and changes almost nothing on a caster. They're actually pretty great on casters.

    2- You can also you medium armour, no MRR cap and something like the med shadowscale is 8 MDB to start off with at the cost of 15 PRR. Add an aug for +2 and ship buff for 2 more and you're at 12 for almost no cost.

    3- Mostly worried that dumping all saves will not only be an ok thing to do but better than investing in them. Depending on you split getting 70+ saves is hard and takes up gear slots for cha, dex, con and possibly wisdom as well as superior parrying, resistance, past lives and also the initial stat spread and tomes. FoM and DW cover most bad things, shield blocking(no serious DPS loss on a caster) blocks a lot more.

    4- True which is why I'm hoping that the base MDB of armours in general goes back up to 20/10/5 or whatever it was for light/med/heavy. PRR will also work on more things though because MRR will be a thing.

    7- This really needs to change.

  3. #403
    Community Member Kalevor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toapat View Post
    The changes in the defense rework thread make fullplate + Tower shield superior to defense stacking with evasion, because you instantly drop to 40% damage taken on a failed save vs an Outfit's 50%. The problem there is that there is virtually no opportunity cost in the build as compared to evasion which has an opportunity cost for a non-monk
    I don't think so, because with evasion you can avoid completely the damage, and if you have high saves (divine grace) it's almost all the time. With armor + shield you always eat damage, more or less but you eat ALWAYS.
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    Come play Dungeons and Dragons! In heroic play you will face the evil minions of Demons... When and if you make it to Epic levels you face even greater threats. Threats like... giant rats and wolves!

  4. #404
    Community Member Kalevor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ayseifn View Post
    Because heavy armour is terrible right now and offers nothing, these will be some big changes.


    1- Yes evasion right now is great because there is no viable alternatives, that will change. The PRR equation scales up better so you will actually see a difference when getting higher values(buff to armour wearers) and MRR will double the effectiveness of it vs magic(which is a much bigger list of things than evasion covers) if wearing a heavy/tower shield. A shield, not including buckler is a big inconvenience to melees, impossible for some ranged and changes almost nothing on a caster. They're actually pretty great on casters.

    2- You can also you medium armour, no MRR cap and something like the med shadowscale is 8 MDB to start off with at the cost of 15 PRR. Add an aug for +2 and ship buff for 2 more and you're at 12 for almost no cost.

    3- Mostly worried that dumping all saves will not only be an ok thing to do but better than investing in them. Depending on you split getting 70+ saves is hard and takes up gear slots for cha, dex, con and possibly wisdom as well as superior parrying, resistance, past lives and also the initial stat spread and tomes. FoM and DW cover most bad things, shield blocking(no serious DPS loss on a caster) blocks a lot more.

    4- True which is why I'm hoping that the base MDB of armours in general goes back up to 20/10/5 or whatever it was for light/med/heavy. PRR will also work on more things though because MRR will be a thing.

    7- This really needs to change.
    I think that the changes in armor and mitigation are in the right way to balance characters with pajama and characters with amor/shield. I still think that there is an investement similar in both sides that need to be rewarded in similar way.
    Proud officer of Zuleicos (Thelanis) - Mikaelus (Melee) ; Akhnaroth (Caster) ; Kraneo (Healbot) ; Leonardu (Melee) ; Tormentazul (Melee)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoglum
    Come play Dungeons and Dragons! In heroic play you will face the evil minions of Demons... When and if you make it to Epic levels you face even greater threats. Threats like... giant rats and wolves!

  5. #405
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    Just my two cents but a lot of posters are saying the light damage isn't enough.

    Unless the game has changed I have spent years watching people try to squeeze 5-6 more points of damage out of their builds so why is this additional damage not enough?

    Maybe it's a matter of dps vs static damage that I'm missing.
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  6. #406
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoboldKiller View Post
    Just my two cents but a lot of posters are saying the light damage isn't enough.

    Unless the game has changed I have spent years watching people try to squeeze 5-6 more points of damage out of their builds so why is this additional damage not enough?

    Maybe it's a matter of dps vs static damage that I'm missing.
    I agree. whenever I loot stuff like Ruby of Superior Fire (1-8 points fire damage), they are sold within an hour or so. to me, that kind of damage is weak for level 20, but some people must be ok with it.

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    Default favored class?

    If I remember correctly when DDO first opened it used the "favored class" mechanic from pnp dnd 3.5, the purpose of which was (and still is) to prevent excessive multi-classing and cherry picking. The dropping of this mechanic opened the door to cherry picking splashes of paladin and rogue (later monk) for the non-humans races. So now Turbine is closing the door they opened themselves? I find that extremely annoying and hypocritical.


    Why not go back to the favored class mechanic! It will tick off a lot of people but I will take xp penalties over nerfing any day. I say we spread the pain around!

  8. #408
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    A thread I posted months ago in which I graded the paladin's enhancements and made some suggestions for improvement: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...or-improvement

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardoor View Post
    Increasing DR bypassing (Alignment, Metaline, Morphic) seems like the best way to enhance already established abilities. I like your suggestions quoted above, but would go further and add a capstone that bypasses all DR to make a pure Pali more of an offensive threat without giving them Fighter or Barb advantages.

    Using light damage seems to be a similar idea, because as you pointed out it is hard to resist. The more I think about it though, it should be a holy light and at lvl 20 no DR should be able to resist a pure pali.
    Simply bypassing DR isn't sufficient, since there are so many ways to do so for everyone, and many of those come incidentally on other things you want anyway (weapons, enhancements, epic abilities).

    Quote Originally Posted by CeltEireson View Post
    Oh and one of the few advantages paladins had was their ability to self heal which scaled with level to a degree. Unfortunately the introduction of various methods for self healing which is now almost obligatory took away from that.
    I think the Defender capstone can be added to, rather than replaced. Give it +2 Con, Mettle (Evasion for Fort and Will spells that have effects even if you pass the save), and a bonus to AC and PRR. Having the capstone grant the Heal spell as a 4th level spell is a great idea! The PrE already has a Core enhancement that grants Raise, Rez, and True Rez, so this fits with an established function of the PrE. Add some healing amp.

    For KotC, change the damage part of the capstone to +1d6 good and +1d6 lawful, and +2d6 light vs. especially bad targets (undead, evil outsiders). Add +2 Str, decrease the regeneration time of Smite Evil by 50% (or more), and add a debuff to smite evil...maybe have it hit for 2dX stacks of Vulnerability. Or reduce monster PRR/AC/saves/Dodge/Fortification. Add some healing amp.

    A good point brought up by someone else (that has been discussed ever since the enhancement pass), is that the cleric/favored soul Smite ability, while weaker than Smite Evil in terms of damage, is both unlimited, and does a lot more than just deal damage, and is in some ways far more useful. They get to grant/increase Vulnerability, which can account for much more damage than the paladin's smite evil if a whole group (especially a raid group) is beating down on one enemy), and they get an effective AoE heal ability.

    Let's look at what paladins do/are supposed to do, and where they fall short:
    • a "front line" martial class -- they have full BAB, martial weapon proficiency, heavy armor and (non-tower) shield proficiency, a d10 hit die, and some damage abilities, but in DDO a primary combatant needs a lot more than this package to be effective.
    • a secondary healer -- they have a spell list with some Cure spells on it, and Lay On Hands; LOH is pretty good, but it isn't enough for anything but emergency party healing, and isn't quite enough for the paladin to rely on it as their primary method of healing through a whole quest.
    • a "leader" -- they have an aura that buffs the party, as well as a few spells that do the same, but aside from the bonus to saves from the aura, and Death Ward in parties without someone else that can cast it, no one cares about the rest of the paladin's aura benefits or their buffs.
    • a staunch opponent of evil -- smite evil is there, but even in pen & paper D&D, where monster stats aren't so outrageously inflated, smite is a fairly weak ability until you get to high levels and can go "nova" on a single big bad guy.
    • an incredibly tough, resilient, and self-sufficient character -- they have their healing abilities, immunities, spells that grant further immunities or protections, fantastic saves, and heavy armor, but in DDO DPS is king, since we have so many ways to gain a measure of self-sufficiency, and some of those measures seriously out-class the paladin's core abilities (hello Rejuvenation Cocoon); since, regardless of our defensive potential, if we don't exceed a certain bar of effectiveness in terms of offensive, we're going to end up losing (when solo, not necessarily when grouped, but a possibility).


    Paladins need more DPS, which is what the developers were looking to do with Weapons of Light, but that doesn't go quite far enough, and still ignores all of the abilities the paladin already has that are under-performing.

    Paladins need slightly better (self-) healing, and for their innate healing to be worth something still at end game where everyone that can't already heal themselves is running around with Cocoon, which is mostly better than LOH. Adding a healing effect to Smite Evil could be nice. Alternatives could include adding an AoE burst healing effect On-being-hit/crit, or granting paladins the Heal spell either as an SLA or as a 4th level spell. Include some healing amp in the paladin class, besides its enhancements.

    Improve the paladin's aura with things everyone cares about: PRR, MRR, healing amp, offensive boosts (damage, attack, double-strike), and expand its size.

    Improve the paladin's spell selection--right now, there is very little of value at level 2 (Resist Energy is nice, but we have many ways to gain Resists at this point, and Angel Skin's DR is both insignificant in epic levels and overridden by the DR on many armors a paladin would want to wear), and level 3 (Magic Circle Against Evil, which is a common buff from clerics, favored souls, wizards, and some sorcerers, and Prayer, which isn't that useful). There are some good spells at 4, but for most paladins they really just amount to Zeal and Cure Serious Wounds unless you desperately need Death Ward. The addition of the Raise Dead spells is nice, but they mostly just allow paladins to use scrolls without requiring UMD for them. There isn't enough in the level 3 and 4 spells, in particular, to make going to 19 or 20 paladin worthwhile (that's when you get a 3rd, then 4th spell slot for those spell levels). My Holy Sword idea would help. Heal would help. Mass Cure X wounds would possibly help. Other paladin spells being introduced from the Spell Compendium and Book of Exalted Deeds would help.

    Give Smite Evil a duration, or debuff riders. Give them something like Weapons of Light, but not just a few d6 in extra damage. Regenerate Smite Evil faster. Improve Divine Might.

    Paladin's saves are already an enormous boon (so big, in fact, that a lot of people splash paladin just for that), but there's not enough reason to take more paladin.

    Look at the way Paizo worked on the paladin in Pathfinder: smite evil becomes a buff throughout an encounter against a single chosen foe, granting more damage and a bonus to hit, as well as a bonus to AC (and there are variants that do things like protect the rest of the party from damage instead of provide extra damage for the paladin). They gain some additional aura benefits (Charm and Compulsion in addition to Fear, etc...), including an aura ability that grants their whole party the benefits of their Smite Evil ability for a time. Lay On Hands gains status removing rider effects. And they gain a bunch of very useful spells at all spell levels.

    Acknowledge that paladins are hurting for feats and either give them some bonus feats, grant them some feats as bonuses, or include the effects of some feats in their enhancements. At this stage, if you want to be S&B, not having a tower shield is a significant detriment, for example.

    One thing that really galls me about the game as it stands now, from a paladin's perspective, is that if you want to have your paladin abilities be worthwhile in epic content you must be in Unyielding Sentinel for Endless Smiting and Lay On Hands and Light the Dark. It is particularly vexing that the paladin has to wait until epic levels before they can regenerate their Lay On Hands. Meanwhile, the other epic destinies do much less in terms of improving or working with existing class abilities, and much more of building on the themes and capabilities of the heroic classes. For example, Fury of the Wild doesn't do anything directly for a barbarian's rage (or Uncanny Dodge), but it has some abilities that confer extra benefits while raging, and has abilities that are 'in theme' for barbarians. Still, the barbarian can go to Legendary Dreadnaught and they won't feel like their heroic abilities aren't performing up to epic levels due to not being in Fury.
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  9. #409
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    smites regenerate and you can spend points to increase the number.
    Personally, I'd rather have unlimited uses with a set cooldown, and spend points to increase the power and decrease the cooldown.

  10. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    smites regenerate and you can spend points to increase the number.
    Best case scenario you have 12 smites that take 63 second to recharge in serial. 1 of those will be dedicated to maintaining Intolerant Blows.

    if all smites recharged in Parallel then the number would not be restricting, because i think the current CD is 4 seconds. Boosted to 6 seconds then a paladin of 10th level with all enhancements and the ED will have at least one smite available at all times.

    Quote Originally Posted by KoboldKiller View Post
    Just my two cents but a lot of posters are saying the light damage isn't enough.

    Unless the game has changed I have spent years watching people try to squeeze 5-6 more points of damage out of their builds so why is this additional damage not enough?

    Maybe it's a matter of dps vs static damage that I'm missing.
    Its not that more damage =/= Better, its that Paladin is Burried under the same 50' of **** that the Oakland Athletics are in Moneyball. That little boost they get? its not competitive to anyone else. My paladin at lvl 23 with dual balizardes deals the same damage as my 16th level range who has 2 crappy scimitars i got off the AH. Paladin just falls behind everyone in damage

  11. #411

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    Quote Originally Posted by Severlin View Post
    Some thoughts:

    ~ If we accept the argument that buffing something underpowered is, by proxy, nerfing something else then we will never get anything done. Therefore I can't give credence to the argument that Evasion is being nerfed "by proxy" of making armor competitive. By doing so we essentially kill any ability to make positive change.
    +1
    ~ We don't want to tie Paladins to sword and shield. Paladin buffs should be good regardless of the weapon style. We might not specifically try to support two weapon paladins, we don't want changes that punish that combo either.
    Thank you that is a step in the right direction.

    I still think that shield users lack a dps feat line, however one must be careful that shield users are not equal in
    dps to non shield users, else shield usage with the resulting AC/PPR bonuses would be the only class played.

    Can we consider a small threat generation toggles to be included with improved shield mastery?
    Making the lesser dps overcome without unbalancing things?

    ~ We understand the purist argument to keep the base class close to pen and paper and use enhancements to buff Paladins. I will bring that viewpoint up with the team. The design reason we didn't keep the class pure and buff enhancement is that we would have to cram the buffs into the core abilities since you can get many tree enhancements with a relatively modest splash into Paladin.

    Sev~
    Core pen and paper has many variations such as the spell point system found in unearthed arcana.
    DDO should enliven the spirit of the D&D not stick perfectly to the letter of D&D.
    There are many editions and many optional books.

    It is possible using all the books in D&D 3rd edtion to create a god out of a 4th level (or lower toon).
    One must be a kobold and use certain books and worship a certain god, but it has been written up
    in detail on the WotC forums.

  12. #412
    Hero Cardoor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    ...

    Simply bypassing DR isn't sufficient, since there are so many ways to do so for everyone, and many of those come incidentally on other things you want anyway (weapons, enhancements, epic abilities).

    ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Nascoe View Post
    Sure, DR bypassing is nice (can't you get most of it from equipment though?), but what if a Paladin got some kind of debuff aura to mobs, that would work against reds at high lvl and against purples (ofc. including epics, as you know that is what they will want to be hitting) with a capstone or something? Is this a crazy idea? It might make it interesting to get that capstone or at least a VERY deep splash. Alternatively it could be a tier 5 enhancement maybe?
    There might be some crystal combos I am not aware of, but yes the right equipment can break all other DR. Keep in mind that you are currently juggling equipment and in mixed mobs might not be able to break it all.

    Coupled with the proposed light damage, I think DR bypassing would be sufficient (particularly for cleavers) for beefing up Pali offensive capability.

    I am not opposed to a debuff aura. An aura that makes evil vulnerable to divine light could be quite powerful.

    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    ...
    One thing that really galls me about the game as it stands now, from a paladin's perspective, is that if you want to have your paladin abilities be worthwhile in epic content you must be in Unyielding Sentinel for Endless Smiting and Lay On Hands and Light the Dark. It is particularly vexing that the paladin has to wait until epic levels before they can regenerate their Lay On Hands. Meanwhile, the other epic destinies do much less in terms of improving or working with existing class abilities, and much more of building on the themes and capabilities of the heroic classes. For example, Fury of the Wild doesn't do anything directly for a barbarian's rage (or Uncanny Dodge), but it has some abilities that confer extra benefits while raging, and has abilities that are 'in theme' for barbarians. Still, the barbarian can go to Legendary Dreadnaught and they won't feel like their heroic abilities aren't performing up to epic levels due to not being in Fury.
    Pali's who are not S&B have better synergy with Divine Crusader IMO. Consecrate, Strike down and Aura of Purification on a pali are not at all wasted. It takes some work to twist Endless smites and lay on hands, but at tier 2 and 3 respectively, the framework is there.

  13. #413
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toapat View Post
    Best case scenario you have 12 smites that take 63 second to recharge in serial. 1 of those will be dedicated to maintaining Intolerant Blows.

    if all smites recharged in Parallel then the number would not be restricting, because i think the current CD is 4 seconds. Boosted to 6 seconds then a paladin of 10th level with all enhancements and the ED will have at least one smite available at all times.
    If anything, I would rather see smites recharge faster. What I would prefer is for Paladins to not be so reliant on them for good DPS. I don't think their current DPS sucks, but I would rather have access to other things that can boost damage like other classes can and I'm not talking twisting something in. A couple pages back I listed a few suggestions I think, if translated properly to DDO math, would be nice boosts in damage.

  14. #414
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    Things I think would help make more paladins worth while.

    Add Additional spells (some change ups to translate to DDO)

    First Level
    Endure Elements: Adds Divine elemental resistance Fire/Ice (Stacks with all other sources) per caster level - 3/5/7/10 - Amounts coordinate with paladin levels for getting spells - Last 1 Minute per level

    Protection from Chaos - Similar to Protection from Evil just vs Chaos

    Magic Weapon: Similar to Artificer Spell

    Bless Weapon: Adds Blessed to Weapon bypassing DR similar to Holy/Good adds +4 bonus To-Hit vs Evil

    Second Level
    Delay Poison - Triples the Timer for applying poison damage but still allowing person to make their saves - 3 Saves before a Failed save would cause damage

    Shield Others: Paladin Takes half of the protected persons damage - Should Work on NPCs for defend quests

    Undetectable Alignment: Used to bypass Alignment Restricted items thus not suffering negative level

    Third Level
    Magic Circle against Chaos: Same as Evil just vs Chaos

    Magic Weapon, Greater: Same as Magic Weapon but +2 Per 4 Paladin Levels Sacred Seeker and +1 Critical Multiplier on a Vorpal


    Fourth Level
    Dispel Chaos: +4 AC/Saves bonus against attack by Chaotic creatures (this should stack with Protection/Magic Circle)

    Dispel Evil: +4 AC/Saves bonus against attack by Evil creatures (this should stack with Protection/Magic Circle)

    Mark of Justice: No Save Bestow Curse (SR should still apply) Should have a 60 second cool down minimum

    ------------------
    Note: For All weapon buffs listed only one should apply to a weapon at a time

    ------------------
    Changes to Existing Spells

    4th Level Holy Sword: Adds +5 Divine Bonus to Current Weapon, Adds Holy, Silver/Cold Iron and +2d6 damage vs Evil With Protection from Evil. Duration should be as long as the caster is holding the weapon (Self Only). Instead of creating a stand alone weapon

    4th Level Zeal: Change from 10% sacred bonuses to double strike to - 10% Sacred Bonus to Attack Speed + 10% Bonus to Double Strike/Double Shot + 10% to Offhand/Shield Bash

    --------------------------
    Also Add in a More choices for Weapons for the Deity choices Faiths like the Sovereign Host have several weapons
    Last edited by Enoach; 06-14-2014 at 08:45 PM.

  15. #415
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RKP View Post
    If I remember correctly when DDO first opened it used the "favored class" mechanic from pnp dnd 3.5, the purpose of which was (and still is) to prevent excessive multi-classing and cherry picking. The dropping of this mechanic opened the door to cherry picking splashes of paladin and rogue (later monk) for the non-humans races. So now Turbine is closing the door they opened themselves? I find that extremely annoying and hypocritical.


    Why not go back to the favored class mechanic! It will tick off a lot of people but I will take xp penalties over nerfing any day. I say we spread the pain around!
    No ddo never used the favored class mechanic of pnp

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  16. #416
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    Angry Stop nerfing people!

    Let's start nerfing ALL 2 level splash build...... Move evasion to level 9 for monks and rogues........ Move disable traps so that only rogue points can be put into it. COME ON....... REALLY? ......STOP NERFING builds and spend more time adding content, items, crafting systems....... Something to get people back into DDO and not getting them frustrated and making them leave!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grace_ana View Post
    The point is obviously that rogues are incredibly OP and must be nerfed immediately. Because we have already decided that if a lot of people splash a class, that is direct proof the splash is OP.

    I hope to Cthulu that the devs recognize the sarcasm here. I gave up hope that some posters will recognize their inherent logic failures.
    To be fair, if *everyone* is compelled or nearly forced to splash something just for *one* single feat that is all but impossible to live without, or the benefits of which outweigh every other single option for them, then that is kinda over the top. D&D was never, ever designed, especially in the 3.0/3.5 era, to be an MMO, much less to have even a vague semblance of balance. Anyone without their head on backwards can recognize that. Realistically, evasion is incredibly powerful, period, no matter what way you slice it. That's just the way it was put together back with 3.0/3.5, but those editions weren't about min-maxing and squeezing out every crunched number, that's newer.

    And that makes a huge 'what to do' for devs.. Do they leave it as is, pigeon-holing everyone into being forced to take the same couple splashes, invalidating nearly every capstone and purist option out there in many situations? Or do they step on the toes of almost everyone to try to shift it up? The third option, ideally, is best.. Add to other classes to make up the difference.. But how to do so? Do they add an evasion-like ability to *every single* class that needs it to survive? Well, at that point, why have it at all? They'd have to come up with uniquely desirable yet not-identical things for every enchancement/class build, and that's a monument of work, all because someone way back with PnP came up with evasion and, fast forward, DDO characters thrive from reflex saves mixed with it. The most crowd-pleasing option is to add to others and, really, I think I'd find it more interesting personally, but it simply isn't possible to pretend like being able to multiclass a level or two of some random, non-sense class into a build for one unbelievably good feat was ever an intended design point to begin with. Evasion is downright amazing, all the bonus feats and extra bits from other splashes are great. You shouldn't get a better payout from dedicating one level to some random off class than taking your primary classes to its highest-heights! Which capstones are supposed to achieve, but generally don't.

    Multiclassing is, as much as I love it, a nightmare in the way it was implemented in 3.0/3.5. It's abusable to absurd degrees, especially in a game like DDO which cares little for the fluff or logic of a character, and only for its numbers. Just throwing my two cents out there - don't pretend like multi-classing in DDO isn't a nightmare of balance; it was never designed to be an MMO, much less balanced, in the first place. Best the devs can do is try to add more incentive to break those molds.
    Last edited by losian2; 06-15-2014 at 12:09 AM.

  18. #418
    Community Member Jerren's Avatar
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    Default Leave granted feats alone!!!

    IMO the problem in not with granted feats and they should be left alone. Personally I don't know why everyone has to complain about splash builds anyways but since they are, the problem is with the enhancement system! D&D 3.5 was a fairly balanced system before you added enhancements into the mix. The latest enhancement refresh has further encouraged splash builds and I have to believe that was the intention. If turbine decides to start messing with granted feats you are only going to cause more problems with balance and cause further angst with old PNP players!

  19. #419
    2015 DDO Players Council Seikojin's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    You could always fix THAT problem first, thus giving yourself more options for addressing other issues, like here with Paladin.
    Not a problem, it is to allow point spending without limiting your options.

  20. #420
    2015 DDO Players Council Seikojin's Avatar
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    Despite all the rage, I think the changes are a good step in the right direction. I can't wait till the Lam build with it comes up, people try their toons, and realize absolutely nothing changes.

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