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  1. #201
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    Hi,

    I've just hit lvl 3 on my new toon using this build, and I noticed that when I equip buckler(using swashbuckling stance) i lose my single weapon fighting premiums. Is there something I am doing wrong, or devs already nerfed this build?

  2. #202
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasacz View Post
    Hi,

    I've just hit lvl 3 on my new toon using this build, and I noticed that when I equip buckler(using swashbuckling stance) i lose my single weapon fighting premiums. Is there something I am doing wrong, or devs already nerfed this build?
    The tier 3 swashbuckler enhancement, swashbuckling style - skirmisher, allows you to gain the benefits of SWF with a buckler in the offhand. Without that enhancement, you do not gain the benefits of SWF. Do you have this enhancement?
    Totally Bass Ackwards ~ int based/heavy armored pure tempest<>The Count of Monte Cristo ~ dps/CC/survivability focused pure swashbuckler<>Santa's Little Slayer ~ dragonmarked elf centered kensai<>Hassan's Assassin ~ 76 DC/dps/survivability focused human assassin<>Dubbell O'Seven ~ casting/ranged WF artificer

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    The tier 3 swashbuckler enhancement, swashbuckling style - skirmisher, allows you to gain the benefits of SWF with a buckler in the offhand. Without that enhancement, you do not gain the benefits of SWF. Do you have this enhancement?
    Havent got this enh yet, now aiming for it. Thanks for the response.

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasacz View Post
    Havent got this enh yet, now aiming for it. Thanks for the response.
    No problem. I'm glad it was an easy fix and not a bug.
    Totally Bass Ackwards ~ int based/heavy armored pure tempest<>The Count of Monte Cristo ~ dps/CC/survivability focused pure swashbuckler<>Santa's Little Slayer ~ dragonmarked elf centered kensai<>Hassan's Assassin ~ 76 DC/dps/survivability focused human assassin<>Dubbell O'Seven ~ casting/ranged WF artificer

  5. #205
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    Is taking perfect SWF worth it?

    I took it, but it seems to me that a vorpal on 19-20 on epic levels... isn't worth it. It's not improved vorpal... and 1k mobs die quick anyway.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by hi_sa1nt View Post
    Is taking perfect SWF worth it?

    I took it, but it seems to me that a vorpal on 19-20 on epic levels... isn't worth it. It's not improved vorpal... and 1k mobs die quick anyway.
    It doesn't give you the vorpal property. It just means anything with a vorpal proc will do so on a roll of 19-20 instead of just 20. So manslayer, thunderstruck, reign, vorpal property on a weapon, etc.

    I'm actually going to drop it. The only effect I currently have that benefits from it is thunderstruck which means PSWF grants me about an average of 5 extra points of damage per hit. If you're using multiple pieces of gear with vorpal effects and/or have reign twisted as well, then I'd say it's worth it. But not for just one effect.

    I'm going to take lasting inspiration instead. Some songs are shorter than I'd prefer and since they take time to sing, it is annoying to keep them up.
    Totally Bass Ackwards ~ int based/heavy armored pure tempest<>The Count of Monte Cristo ~ dps/CC/survivability focused pure swashbuckler<>Santa's Little Slayer ~ dragonmarked elf centered kensai<>Hassan's Assassin ~ 76 DC/dps/survivability focused human assassin<>Dubbell O'Seven ~ casting/ranged WF artificer

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    It doesn't give you the vorpal property. It just means anything with a vorpal proc will do so on a roll of 19-20 instead of just 20. So manslayer, thunderstruck, reign, vorpal property on a weapon, etc.

    I'm actually going to drop it. The only effect I currently have that benefits from it is thunderstruck which means PSWF grants me about an average of 5 extra points of damage per hit. If you're using multiple pieces of gear with vorpal effects and/or have reign twisted as well, then I'd say it's worth it. But not for just one effect.

    I'm going to take lasting inspiration instead. Some songs are shorter than I'd prefer and since they take time to sing, it is annoying to keep them up.
    That's what I was leaning towards, but wanted to try out PSWF... I'll keep you posted. I'm almost level 27 and it's a blast. Might be changing some of the end gear around.... I just wish I could slot Enchantment Focus V instead of using Sage's Mantle... could always go the orb route and use an EE Nether Orb... which loses the 10% dodge from Swash.

    Lol... also ended up not putting any points in my racial trees... the others are just too good to not put points into.
    Last edited by hi_sa1nt; 08-11-2014 at 01:00 AM.

  8. #208
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    Default Update

    Currently level 26 and the build is awesome. It assassinates better than my assassin (side note - you can use coup de grace with a scroll in hand, assassinate just goes on timer but has no effect). DPS is top notch. Survivability is excellent. Sacred ground provides excellent healing for both the group and myself. I've tanked a lot more than I would have expected on this build. It steals and holds agro easily so I tend to find myself in a position to tank anyway, and the self healing and survivability are sufficient for some tanking roles. The most fun was Sully in an at level elite streak VoD. It's certainly not an ideal tank but can perform in a pinch. With the potential for tanking, if I had the build to do over again, I'd take the points from diplo and bluff and put them into intim. I made note of this in the OP.

    Updated the OP.

    Dropped perfect swf for lasting inspiration for reasons discussed two posts above.

    I made note of the different gear setups with Balizarde and Thunderforged. With Balizarde, devotion is slotted in the red slot and Planar Focus is worn. With Thunderforged, sonic is slotted in the red slot and EE Shamanic Fetish is worn. Losing Balizarde/Planar Focus means losing 4 insight saves and 3 insightful con. The saves can't be made up but insightful con 2 can be slotted in the Thunderforged colorless slot and the second rank of cutting jibes can be dropped to pick up skaldic con, resulting in the same con. With Thunderforged you lose a total of 6 positive spell power but gain a total of 150 sonic spell power for an average gain of about 15 additional sonic damage per crit from resonant arms.

    I also swapped the Epic Swashbuckler for the Kobold Admiral's Tiller. This is necessary to keep dodge maxed when making the switch from Balizarde to Thunderforged. Slotting insightful dex 2 in the Tiller's colorless slot results in the same dex.

    Also added proof against poison 10 in the Tiller's hidden green slot and proof against disease 10 in the EE Shamanic Fetish's green slot because there's nothing else worth slotting. Underwater action is the only thing I'm missing, lol.
    Totally Bass Ackwards ~ int based/heavy armored pure tempest<>The Count of Monte Cristo ~ dps/CC/survivability focused pure swashbuckler<>Santa's Little Slayer ~ dragonmarked elf centered kensai<>Hassan's Assassin ~ 76 DC/dps/survivability focused human assassin<>Dubbell O'Seven ~ casting/ranged WF artificer

  9. #209
    Community Member Vinven's Avatar
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    Default Your assistance would be highly appreciated.

    I've recently made a halfling swashbuckler bard, following this build. I've been enjoying it, though too often I find myself remiss about the lack of ability to disarm traps.


    Might there be a means to add disable device to my repertoire without altering the build greatly?

  10. #210
    Community Member Feithlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinven View Post
    I've recently made a halfling swashbuckler bard, following this build. I've been enjoying it, though too often I find myself remiss about the lack of ability to disarm traps.


    Might there be a means to add disable device to my repertoire without altering the build greatly?
    If you want to disable traps, you'll need at least 2 Rogue levels to make up for the loss of evasion from capstone. Since you won't go for capstone, you may as well splash a bit more to include divine might. My recommendation would be to go for Bd16/Ro2/FvS2 (preferably human). However, since you already have your character, I would recommend not to change it in the middle of your leveling: a good rule of thumb is to plan your multiclassing before running the character. Just take some time to see how to bypass traps without disarming them.
    Thelanis: Nassim* (F12/P6/M2) - Talienor** (P18/Ra2) - Feithlin** (F12/Bd7/C1) - Stoneoak* (F12/M6/P2) - Hokusai (M17/F2/C1) - Ardence* (Bd15/F3/Ro2) - Matsushiro* (Ro11/M6/P3) | Argonessen: Luneargent (W18/Ro2) - Talienor (Ro20) - Takshir (Bd16/F2/Ro2) - Hiacynthe (C20) | Ghallanda: A bunch of pre DDO Unlimited characters (field of testing for post U19 )

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinven View Post
    I've recently made a halfling swashbuckler bard, following this build. I've been enjoying it, though too often I find myself remiss about the lack of ability to disarm traps.


    Might there be a means to add disable device to my repertoire without altering the build greatly?
    I'd have to agree with Feithlin, if you haven't planned your multiclass in advance, then don't do it this life. Now if you have at least an LR +1, then you could use that. For trapping you want to take rogue at level 1 to get more skill points. And you would want at least 2 rogue to make up for losing evasion from the capstone. The main things you lose by splashing are 1 DC (2 cha) and a bit of damage from the capstone, and some duration to your spells and songs. If you splash more than 2 levels, then you also lose the fifth core - a bit more damage and slippery mind.

    So yeah, it's certainly an option to splash for trapping on this build, but it does need to be planned out in advance. I'd go 18bard/2rogue personally. That will minimize your loss in dps and allow you keep slippery mind. Divine might won't do much for this build since it uses cha for damage. All it does is add to your to-hit. 2 fighter is an option if you want more feats, but compare the value of those feats to what is lost by having less bard levels to determine if it's worth it to you. I know there are some trap capable swashbuckler builds around here. You could take a look at some of those to give yourself some ideas.

    Hope that helps.
    Totally Bass Ackwards ~ int based/heavy armored pure tempest<>The Count of Monte Cristo ~ dps/CC/survivability focused pure swashbuckler<>Santa's Little Slayer ~ dragonmarked elf centered kensai<>Hassan's Assassin ~ 76 DC/dps/survivability focused human assassin<>Dubbell O'Seven ~ casting/ranged WF artificer

  12. #212
    Community Member Vinven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post

    Hope that helps.
    You've been of great help. I've ran into many others that are using this build of yours, so thanks for all the work put into it.

    I think I'll stay pure for this life at least. I just hate looking at traps and being unable to disarm them like I normally can on my rogue.

  13. #213
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    A lot of pages and I probably missed this someplace but....

    First, a well designed build. My pure bard is somewhat similar and my completionist is a Shadar-kai with the 2 rogue splash. Both are similar in concept, if not in execution, to your build.

    Second, I dropped ICierce from my feats. It seems almost redundant with Exploit Weakness and is absolutely redundant with Balizarde which is keen already. I took Empower Healing instead (although a more spell focused character like yours could choose other supporting feats). I don't have a Thunderforged weapon but I wonder if the increased crit rate would really be necessary.

    Nonetheless, a well designed build that should see lots of clones.

  14. #214
    Community Member Maelodic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    A lot of pages and I probably missed this someplace but....

    First, a well designed build. My pure bard is somewhat similar and my completionist is a Shadar-kai with the 2 rogue splash. Both are similar in concept, if not in execution, to your build.

    Second, I dropped ICierce from my feats. It seems almost redundant with Exploit Weakness and is absolutely redundant with Balizarde which is keen already. I took Empower Healing instead (although a more spell focused character like yours could choose other supporting feats). I don't have a Thunderforged weapon but I wonder if the increased crit rate would really be necessary.

    Nonetheless, a well designed build that should see lots of clones.
    Improved Critical actually enhances Exploit Weakness quite a bit- instead of providing an extra 5% to crit per hit, it provide an extra 10%.
    Improved Critical is not required if you're using Balizarde, but I would say it is absolutely required if you're using Thunderforged and one could argue that because of Exploit Weakness, IC is one of your best damage feats. If you want to drop something, drop the shield feats first.
    ~Sarlona~ - Proud Member of The Unrepentant
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  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    A lot of pages and I probably missed this someplace but....

    First, a well designed build. My pure bard is somewhat similar and my completionist is a Shadar-kai with the 2 rogue splash. Both are similar in concept, if not in execution, to your build.

    Second, I dropped ICierce from my feats. It seems almost redundant with Exploit Weakness and is absolutely redundant with Balizarde which is keen already. I took Empower Healing instead (although a more spell focused character like yours could choose other supporting feats). I don't have a Thunderforged weapon but I wonder if the increased crit rate would really be necessary.

    Nonetheless, a well designed build that should see lots of clones.
    Thanks. Glad you like the build.

    I'd have to agree with Maelodic. Imp crit applies to exploit weakness as well, so each stack grants an additional 10% crit chance. That alone is well worth a feat slot imo. Also, many of the best effects from Thunderforged proc on crit, so imp crit is a significant dps boost if using Thunderforged.

    Side note, one of these days I'm going to do a dps comparison between Balizarde and Thunderforged on this build. I'm just curious how close or far apart they actually are.

    Personally, I don't find empower heal needed at all. My quickened cure crit hits me for about 200. Sacred ground hits me for about 150 per tick. Those two together provide plenty of healing for me. And if I'm really low on HP and need more quickly, I've got cure serious as a backup. That's all I've ever really needed. I've even ended up tanking before and am able to keep myself up with just sacred ground and cure crit wounds.

    I would also agree with Maelodic that dropping one or both of the shield mastery feats is a better option than imp crit if you want to fit in other feats.
    Totally Bass Ackwards ~ int based/heavy armored pure tempest<>The Count of Monte Cristo ~ dps/CC/survivability focused pure swashbuckler<>Santa's Little Slayer ~ dragonmarked elf centered kensai<>Hassan's Assassin ~ 76 DC/dps/survivability focused human assassin<>Dubbell O'Seven ~ casting/ranged WF artificer

  16. #216
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    I completely understand/understood that IC provided the extra crit range and that this works/worked in conjunction with EW.

    What I was wondering is whether it is actually necessary for Thunderforged.

    I have, thru the years, observed that characters often do a lot of excess damage. Raw numbers tell me that IC increases the number of crits N times in an attack sequence. But, if the mob is not alive the extra crits that proc in that sequence are meaningless.

    So my question/observation is that perhaps having the additional crit range isn't actually needed once we move a discussion from theoretical damage outputs to actual in-game combats. It is a speculation that I've made before and just wondered if you have practical experience at this point arguing for taking IC rather than just the theoretical notion that doing so will produce more crits.

    I am currently running two bards. One is L21 and was built to be my haggle character. While not geared well at all he seems to do extremely well without the IC feat running. Empower Healing became a necessity for me because he tended to get aggro but lacked the defenses to prevent damage. The added healing makes a noticeable difference in his survivability.

    The other is my completionist which I quick leveled as a Shadar-kai using the recent Otto's boxes to L25. Using Balizarde he does so much damage that almost no party member can get or hold aggro. Similar to the first character, he suffers greatly from weak defenses exacerbated by being restricted to light armor and buckler -- greatly inhibiting his PRR. To compensate I run him in Unyielding Sentinel and am hitting 100+ AC, 28% dodge, 50% displacement. Yet he still gets hit hard and the extra healing from Empower Healing I am finding to be almost necessary.

    So, either I'm doing something horribly wrong or there is something significantly different in your experience that I'm missing. Keeping in mind that your gear set up may be near optimal, from a practical standpoint I don't see how your healing is sufficient. Maybe it is the Sacred Ground?

  17. #217
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maelodic View Post
    IC is one of your best damage feats. If you want to drop something, drop the shield feats first.
    Well, dropping the shield feats may become necessary if the update removes the increased combat power from bucklers or otherwise affects their rather limited PRR benefits. But, I view this perspective as somewhat of a continued endorsement of glass cannon type builds.

    Keep in mind that I am an advocate for the game working so that every aspect is functional and meaningful at end game. AC and PRR should mean something even in EE and it should not be so meaningless that it is trumped by dodge, concealment and incorporeal values.

    What it sounds like, to me, is that the mindset remains to simply build for maximum DPS and to just hold on and hope when it comes to damage avoidance and mitigation. That, IMO, is one of the weakest aspects of DDO -- fed by players wanting to kill stuff (and being able to do so) and complicated by the developers giving mobs extraordinarily high HP totals along with insane CR ratings in order to reduce player ability to kill. But the result of this badly skewed mechanic is that defenses are rendered moot. So players build only for dodge, concealment or incorporeal factors.

    It could be that this built in game imbalance argues forcefully for IC because in practical game play the added AC/PRR from the shield mastery feats is insufficient to produce noticeable effects. But, I would argue that it ought not to be that way and my question would be whether, from practical in-game experience, the added damage is really necessary.

  18. #218
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    I have, thru the years, observed that characters often do a lot of excess damage. Raw numbers tell me that IC increases the number of crits N times in an attack sequence. But, if the mob is not alive the extra crits that proc in that sequence are meaningless.

    So my question/observation is that perhaps having the additional crit range isn't actually needed once we move a discussion from theoretical damage outputs to actual in-game combats. It is a speculation that I've made before and just wondered if you have practical experience at this point arguing for taking IC rather than just the theoretical notion that doing so will produce more crits.
    Trash mobs in EE have thousands of HP. In higher level EEs, they often have well over 10k. Boss mobs, including orange named, have tens and even hundreds of thousands of HP. There is plenty of time for extra crits to proc when fighting mobs with that many hit points. And they are all capable of inflicting serious damage upon our characters, so the faster they die, the more likely we are to succeed. That's my practical experience.

    Your speculation may be accurate for most heroics, as well as some lower level EEs. But at those levels, added defense isn't going to amount to much since enemies don't do that much damage, so higher dps is still the ideal tactic since that will simply allow you to complete more quickly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    I am currently running two bards. One is L21 and was built to be my haggle character. While not geared well at all he seems to do extremely well without the IC feat running. Empower Healing became a necessity for me because he tended to get aggro but lacked the defenses to prevent damage. The added healing makes a noticeable difference in his survivability.

    The other is my completionist which I quick leveled as a Shadar-kai using the recent Otto's boxes to L25. Using Balizarde he does so much damage that almost no party member can get or hold aggro. Similar to the first character, he suffers greatly from weak defenses exacerbated by being restricted to light armor and buckler -- greatly inhibiting his PRR. To compensate I run him in Unyielding Sentinel and am hitting 100+ AC, 28% dodge, 50% displacement. Yet he still gets hit hard and the extra healing from Empower Healing I am finding to be almost necessary.

    So, either I'm doing something horribly wrong or there is something significantly different in your experience that I'm missing. Keeping in mind that your gear set up may be near optimal, from a practical standpoint I don't see how your healing is sufficient. Maybe it is the Sacred Ground?
    Sacred ground provides exceptional healing. For 15 out of every 20 seconds I get healed 150+ HP every 3 seconds, and that applies to all those around me as well. If you're not using sacred ground because you're not running in divine crusader, then I can see more of a need for empower healing. Divine crusader also offers a lot more than just great healing though. It's a great dps tree and debuffs mobs as well, which is good for survival of the whole group.

    Without knowing specifics about your build, I can't offer any suggestions for improvement. I will say that you can still get significant PRR in light armor and a buckler though, and that I wouldn't be worrying about AC as a form of defense, at least not for EE. You might want to try divine crusader and see how it works for you. You may find you don't need empower heal as much as before and can easily afford imp crit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    Well, dropping the shield feats may become necessary if the update removes the increased combat power from bucklers or otherwise affects their rather limited PRR benefits. But, I view this perspective as somewhat of a continued endorsement of glass cannon type builds.
    Again, without knowing more about your specific builds, I can't comment on those, but I can say with certainty that this build is not a glass cannon at all. As I said before, I've often found myself in tanking situations and handle them just fine. You can see for yourself exactly what my defenses are and where they are all coming from, that's why I provide such detailed breakdowns in the OP. If I end up having to drop the shield mastery feats because of the update, I won't be losing that much defense. I actually took the shield mastery feats more for the dps they offer, the defensive qualities were just a bonus.

    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    Keep in mind that I am an advocate for the game working so that every aspect is functional and meaningful at end game. AC and PRR should mean something even in EE and it should not be so meaningless that it is trumped by dodge, concealment and incorporeal values.

    What it sounds like, to me, is that the mindset remains to simply build for maximum DPS and to just hold on and hope when it comes to damage avoidance and mitigation. That, IMO, is one of the weakest aspects of DDO -- fed by players wanting to kill stuff (and being able to do so) and complicated by the developers giving mobs extraordinarily high HP totals along with insane CR ratings in order to reduce player ability to kill. But the result of this badly skewed mechanic is that defenses are rendered moot. So players build only for dodge, concealment or incorporeal factors.

    It could be that this built in game imbalance argues forcefully for IC because in practical game play the added AC/PRR from the shield mastery feats is insufficient to produce noticeable effects. But, I would argue that it ought not to be that way and my question would be whether, from practical in-game experience, the added damage is really necessary.
    I recently read a post of yours in another thread where you said you didn't get into discussions about game mechanics and how to fix them. I am the same way. I tend to just accept the game as it is and let others worry about how to change it. So I don't know if you're right that defense should be more about AC/PRR. But I do know that the reality of the current game is that AC is meaningless, damage avoidance is king, and damage mitigation is useful for dealing with the spike damage you receive when damage avoidance fails. And as I said earlier, mobs hit so hard that the faster they die, the safer you are. So as long as you've got a base level of defense, regardless of how you achieve it, maxing dps is priority. That's my opinion anyway, and it is formed from much experience in upper level EE content.
    Totally Bass Ackwards ~ int based/heavy armored pure tempest<>The Count of Monte Cristo ~ dps/CC/survivability focused pure swashbuckler<>Santa's Little Slayer ~ dragonmarked elf centered kensai<>Hassan's Assassin ~ 76 DC/dps/survivability focused human assassin<>Dubbell O'Seven ~ casting/ranged WF artificer

  19. #219
    Community Member Nodoze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    Trash mobs in EE have thousands of HP. In higher level EEs, they often have well over 10k. Boss mobs, including orange named, have tens and even hundreds of thousands of HP. There is plenty of time for extra crits to proc when fighting mobs with that many hit points. And they are all capable of inflicting serious damage upon our characters, so the faster they die, the more likely we are to succeed. That's my practical experience.

    Your speculation may be accurate for most heroics, as well as some lower level EEs. But at those levels, added defense isn't going to amount to much since enemies don't do that much damage, so higher dps is still the ideal tactic since that will simply allow you to complete more quickly.

    Sacred ground provides exceptional healing. For 15 out of every 20 seconds I get healed 150+ HP every 3 seconds, and that applies to all those around me as well. If you're not using sacred ground because you're not running in divine crusader, then I can see more of a need for empower healing. Divine crusader also offers a lot more than just great healing though. It's a great dps tree and debuffs mobs as well, which is good for survival of the whole group.

    Without knowing specifics about your build, I can't offer any suggestions for improvement. I will say that you can still get significant PRR in light armor and a buckler though, and that I wouldn't be worrying about AC as a form of defense, at least not for EE. You might want to try divine crusader and see how it works for you. You may find you don't need empower heal as much as before and can easily afford imp crit.

    Again, without knowing more about your specific builds, I can't comment on those, but I can say with certainty that this build is not a glass cannon at all. As I said before, I've often found myself in tanking situations and handle them just fine. You can see for yourself exactly what my defenses are and where they are all coming from, that's why I provide such detailed breakdowns in the OP. If I end up having to drop the shield mastery feats because of the update, I won't be losing that much defense. I actually took the shield mastery feats more for the dps they offer, the defensive qualities were just a bonus.

    I recently read a post of yours in another thread where you said you didn't get into discussions about game mechanics and how to fix them. I am the same way. I tend to just accept the game as it is and let others worry about how to change it. So I don't know if you're right that defense should be more about AC/PRR. But I do know that the reality of the current game is that AC is meaningless, damage avoidance is king, and damage mitigation is useful for dealing with the spike damage you receive when damage avoidance fails. And as I said earlier, mobs hit so hard that the faster they die, the safer you are. So as long as you've got a base level of defense, regardless of how you achieve it, maxing dps is priority. That's my opinion anyway, and it is formed from much experience in upper level EE content.
    Good discussions. I have seen some posts/threads where, even in the current game, AC can be useful in some builds that get it extremely high (depending on the content > 180-200+). I don't want to take this thread too far off topic or too far off focusing on the current build mechanics in current end game but thought there was some info being discussed that may not be accurate in all circumstances/builds. Sorry if everyone is well aware of these but I thought is would be appropriate to highlight some examples were AC is relevant even in current end game:

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...di-Shuricannon

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ged-no-evasion

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5317958

    I think this last discussion was pretty influential helping result in, along with other feedback, the following threads:

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...eloper-Diary-1

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...eloper-Diary-2

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...eloper-Diary-3

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...fender-Changes

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...fender-Changes

    These last threads show that the Producers/Developers are working hard with the Player's Council and folk in general toward making AC & Heavy Armor in particular more relevant so that it isn't something that only works for a few extreme AC builds (like the examples posted above)...

    I agree we play the game as it is on live but it is also good to know what is likely coming down the pike soon (TM). It is also refreshing to know that we can give feedback into the development/direction of the game and that they are trying to actively trying to address some areas of imbalance and continuing to build/support DDO...

    Anyway, thanks for the good build and great discussion thread.
    Last edited by Nodoze; 08-18-2014 at 02:54 PM.

  20. #220
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    I recently read a post of yours in another thread where you said you didn't get into discussions about game mechanics and how to fix them. I am the same way. I tend to just accept the game as it is and let others worry about how to change it. So I don't know if you're right that defense should be more about AC/PRR. But I do know that the reality of the current game is that AC is meaningless, damage avoidance is king, and damage mitigation is useful for dealing with the spike damage you receive when damage avoidance fails. And as I said earlier, mobs hit so hard that the faster they die, the safer you are. So as long as you've got a base level of defense, regardless of how you achieve it, maxing dps is priority. That's my opinion anyway, and it is formed from much experience in upper level EE content.
    You are absolutely right that in the current game AC is (nearly) meaningless. It does provide some damage mitigation but the effort needed to achieve useful AC usually outweighs the minimal improvements it provides. With current game mechanics I can see why it is you prefer IC. It makes complete sense.

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