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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by der_kluge View Post
    Just as an aside, and it's not specific to this one build, but why do people list the build stats including things like Yugo pots, rage, and other temporary stat buffs?

    What is the point of doing that? Most people aren't walking around with stacks of Yugo pots. Of the Yugo pots I own, I've never bothered to even use them, because frankly I've never found myself in a position where I've felt like I just needed to kill stuff *that much faster* than I already do.
    Yes this yugo pots mania is nonsense.

    You really want drink yugo pots (one per 1000 pp) for each stat each 15 mins for so small bonus as +2 on not so important stats?
    Do you also considered consequence? Do you know penalty for using them?

    You get:
    -4 reflex for +2 wisdom yugo pot
    -4 fortitude for +2 strength yugo pot
    -4 will save for +2 charisma yugo pot
    -5% Melee attack speed bonus for +2 constitution yugo pot
    -50% Fortification for +2 intelligence yugo pot
    -2 Attack bonus for +2 dexterity yugo pot

    and some other bonuses on other side, but not enough to compensate your loss.

    You don’t counting with theses crippling penalties and secondary bonus in your theory

    Yougo pots are mainly good for DC casters for maximize their DC for every cost.

  2. #22
    Community Member Maelodic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xario View Post
    Yes this yugo pots mania is nonsense.

    You really want drink yugo pots (one per 1000 pp) for each stat each 15 mins for so small bonus as +2 on not so important stats?
    Do you also considered consequence? Do you know penalty for using them?

    You get:
    -4 reflex for +2 wisdom yugo pot
    -4 fortitude for +2 strength yugo pot
    -4 will save for +2 charisma yugo pot
    -5% Melee attack speed bonus for +2 constitution yugo pot
    -50% Fortification for +2 intelligence yugo pot
    -2 Attack bonus for +2 dexterity yugo pot

    and some other bonuses on other side, but not enough to compensate your loss.

    You don’t counting with theses crippling penalties and secondary bonus in your theory

    Yougo pots are mainly good for DC casters for maximize their DC for every cost.
    I just see it on about every build- not following suit seems silly. I'll edit it a bit later though, I guess. I've not seen gripe about it on other builds.

    Honestly, not trying to be uber/epic/whatever. I tend to look up other builds for calculations in case I miss anything so I decided to add that.


    ----

    UPDATE: Took out Yugo.
    Last edited by Maelodic; 06-03-2014 at 02:15 AM.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maelodic View Post
    It does- same as the Warpriest enhancements. I have hopes that it will be fixed, but until then you're right in that I should be using rebellion as secondary.

    Honestly though, Balizarde will out dps even with DR on everything but high fort enemies- in which case Rebellion will.
    Thanks for the heads up that Celestia won't work. Since Celestia's primary use is as a DR breaker, I'm not sure why Rebellion would replace it. A Thunder Forged rapier with good slotted and tier 2 Dragon's Edge offers general DR breaking like Celestia and better fort bypass than Rebellion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maelodic View Post
    I was worried that this would be how everything is interpreted. Honestly most of the work put into this build went into finding equipment that was synergistic. The build itself seems pretty cookie-cutter to me and wrapped around my preferences. Extend for displace/haste/rage would be awesome but it doesn't really matter.
    None of my comments were intended as a critique of your build, just as der_kluge said that his were not specific to it either. Aside from the Yugo pots to all stats (which I completely missed initially because we all know no one is drinking Yugo pots for every stat) I don't see any "fluff" numbers in your build.

    Just curious Maelodic, since you said you've done extensive testing on Lam, do you know if the shield bash knockdown from low blow counts as being tripped to enable coup de grace?
    Totally Bass Ackwards ~ int based/heavy armored pure tempest<>The Count of Monte Cristo ~ dps/CC/survivability focused pure swashbuckler<>Santa's Little Slayer ~ dragonmarked elf centered kensai<>Hassan's Assassin ~ 76 DC/dps/survivability focused human assassin<>Dubbell O'Seven ~ casting/ranged WF artificer

  4. #24
    Community Member Maelodic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    Thanks for the heads up that Celestia won't work. Since Celestia's primary use is as a DR breaker, I'm not sure why Rebellion would replace it. A Thunder Forged rapier with good slotted and tier 2 Dragon's Edge offers general DR breaking like Celestia and better fort bypass than Rebellion.
    Rebellion would be for high fort- which is usually coupled with DR. I don't really care about DR when my damage numbers with Balizarde get up.

    EDIT: Sorry, didn't quite clarify. It's not really a replacement- at least not a good one. I'm not planning on crafting anymore DR breakers though.

    T3 Thunderforged will probably be the last thing I farm up- I'm behind on equipment. I'm not counting on having one for a while so that's just why I posted it that way. I already have the other weapons.

    When I post the actual equipment list after U22 comes out, it will include Thunderforged.

    I'll eventually get Mortal Fear and armor piercing and all that good stuff.

    None of my comments were intended as a critique of your build, just as der_kluge said that his were not specific to it either. Aside from the Yugo pots to all stats (which I completely missed initially because we all know no one is drinking Yugo pots for every stat) I don't see any "fluff" numbers in your build.
    I know- I apologize for getting slightly defensive. I just didn't want the thread to turn into a discussion about fluff numbers in builds- that's all.

    Just curious Maelodic, since you said you've done extensive testing on Lam, do you know if the shield bash knockdown from low blow counts as being tripped to enable coup de grace?
    Yes- and they're on similar cooldowns and have the same supermassive DC- the trip is on a higher cooldown than the insta-kill but not by a whole lot. It's an amazing 1-2 combo and I love it- it starts to feel similar Quivering Palm- and with an investment in stealth feels very similar to a Rogue.

    The wearing-nothing slap in the face works too- but unless you can't spare two feats, there's absolutely no reason to go that route. In the last implementation- buckler-buckling gave 10% dodge and the 7% doublestrike wearing nothing gets you is negated by improved shield mastery (and surpassed by legendary shield mastery.)

    I honestly think they should give more of a stacking attack speed bonus to wearing nothing in your offhand- or there really is absolutely no reason to use it.

    The main reason I've been following this like a hawk is because Swashbuckler feels like a(my) Monk combined with (my) Rogue and 8 levels in Wizard. I wouldn't be surprised if the devs just looked at all my gameplay posts and decided to make this tree and playstyle just for me.

    I may trade out haggle and diplo for hide and move silently- with the stealth rework disengaging with just that mechanic is such a useful tool. Not to mentioned stealthed Fascinates- not great in a group unless you have your party in your backpack but can make a lot of quests easy to solo. I guess invis fascinate works the same way now anyway.
    Last edited by Maelodic; 06-03-2014 at 04:46 AM.
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maelodic View Post
    Rebellion would be for high fort- which is usually coupled with DR. I don't really care about DR when my damage numbers with Balizarde get up.

    EDIT: Sorry, didn't quite clarify. It's not really a replacement- at least not a good one. I'm not planning on crafting anymore DR breakers though.

    T3 Thunderforged will probably be the last thing I farm up- I'm behind on equipment. I'm not counting on having one for a while so that's just why I posted it that way. I already have the other weapons.

    I'll eventually get Mortal Fear and armor piercing and all that good stuff.
    Yeah dragon's edge would be for the fort bypass. It's tier 2 and offers 35% fort bypass, which is 15% more than rebellion. Tier 2 thunder forged weapons aren't that much of a grind at all really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maelodic View Post
    I know- I apologize for getting slightly defensive. I just didn't want the thread to turn into a discussion about fluff numbers in builds- that's all.
    Sorry, didn't mean to derail the thread. Back on topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maelodic View Post
    Yes- and they're on similar cooldowns and have the same supermassive DC- the trip is on a higher cooldown than the insta-kill but not by a whole lot. It's an amazing 1-2 combo and I love it- it starts to feel similar Quivering Palm- and with an investment in stealth feels very similar to a Rogue.
    Hmmm. I would assume then, that coup de grace will also work with stalwart defender's second core, overbalance, which is a knockdown effect on vorpal (although I'm not quite clear on whether this is limited to a shield vorpal or not).

    Now I'm leaning towards a cha based PDK 12bard/6fighter/2rogue. Coup de grace can get an insane DC for an instakill ability and is well worth going cha based over str based imo. I don't think it's OP though, since you first have to render mobs into an appropriate state before you can use it, and you are giving up some damage by not going str based.

    Thanks for the info.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maelodic View Post
    The wearing-nothing slap in the face works too- but unless you can't spare two feats, there's absolutely no reason to go that route. In the last implementation- buckler-buckling gave 10% dodge and the 7% doublestrike wearing nothing gets you is negated by improved shield mastery (and surpassed by legendary shield mastery.)

    I honestly think they should give more of a stacking attack speed bonus to wearing nothing in your offhand- or there really is absolutely no reason to use it.
    Agreed. There's basically no reason at all to go with nothing in the offhand right now.
    Totally Bass Ackwards ~ int based/heavy armored pure tempest<>The Count of Monte Cristo ~ dps/CC/survivability focused pure swashbuckler<>Santa's Little Slayer ~ dragonmarked elf centered kensai<>Hassan's Assassin ~ 76 DC/dps/survivability focused human assassin<>Dubbell O'Seven ~ casting/ranged WF artificer

  6. #26
    Community Member Maelodic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    Now I'm leaning towards a cha based PDK 12bard/6fighter/2rogue. Coup de grace can get an insane DC for an instakill ability and is well worth going cha based over str based imo. I don't think it's OP though, since you first have to render mobs into an appropriate state before you can use it, and you are giving up some damage by not going str based.

    Thanks for the info.
    I actually believe you can get your Coup De Grace (I'm going to start using the acronym CDG and see if it catches on) DC up super high without actually needing a big CHA investment. Take away any of the CHA bonus I have on mine at all and the DC is still 73+1d20. That's more than your crazy INT Rogue's assassinate. (Not belittling- just thinking it's a little crazy)

    CHA based is really because I can- and gives me additional benefits and I'm way too feat starved for OC anyway. I'm not splashing so my STR isn't going to fly out the window. UMD, Perform if they ever cut down the DCs, spell points, being sexy. You know, important stuff.
    Last edited by Maelodic; 06-03-2014 at 06:23 AM.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maelodic View Post
    I actually believe you can get your Coup De Grace (I'm going to start using the acronym CDG and see if it catches on) DC up super high without actually needing a big CHA investment. Take away any of the CHA bonus I have on mine at all and the DC is still 73+1d20. That's more than your crazy INT Rogue's assassinate. (Not belittling- just thinking it's a little crazy)
    You're right, but my rogue still has limitations. I'd just love to have an instakill ability with a near 100 DC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maelodic View Post
    CHA based is really because I can- and gives me additional benefits and I'm way too feat starved for OC anyway. I'm not splashing so my STR isn't going to fly out the window. UMD, Perform if they ever cut down the DCs, spell points, being sexy. You know, important stuff.
    Have you considered force of personality? You could get a bit more charisma and end up with a will save that won't be no-fail but still effective. With slippery mind giving you twice the opportunity, that seems like a good investment. Even without epic toughness you'll still top 800 hp, which is plenty. I think that would round out your defenses nicely.

    Also, since you're already cha based, what about dropping toughness for spell focus enchant. That allows you to twist enchantment specialist from magister. You could get a solid DC on Otto's sphere, especially with the right debuffs (mind fog, etc.). That would still leave you with just under 800 hp, which you could reach with a yugo pot (hehe) and give you a solid persistant AoE CC option.
    Totally Bass Ackwards ~ int based/heavy armored pure tempest<>The Count of Monte Cristo ~ dps/CC/survivability focused pure swashbuckler<>Santa's Little Slayer ~ dragonmarked elf centered kensai<>Hassan's Assassin ~ 76 DC/dps/survivability focused human assassin<>Dubbell O'Seven ~ casting/ranged WF artificer

  8. #28
    Community Member Maelodic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    You're right, but my rogue still has limitations. I'd just love to have an instakill ability with a near 100 DC.
    Statistics dictate that a majority of the time, my insta-kill will be over 100 DC. It does feel nice, doesn't it?

    Have you considered force of personality? You could get a bit more charisma and end up with a will save that won't be no-fail but still effective. With slippery mind giving you twice the opportunity, that seems like a good investment. Even without epic toughness you'll still top 800 hp, which is plenty. I think that would round out your defenses nicely.
    Toughness and Epic Toughness were initially to bolster a bit but the will save may be a lot better.

    Also, since you're already cha based, what about dropping toughness for spell focus enchant. That allows you to twist enchantment specialist from magister. You could get a solid DC on Otto's sphere, especially with the right debuffs (mind fog, etc.). That would still leave you with just under 800 hp, which you could reach with a yugo pot (hehe) and give you a solid persistant AoE CC option.
    The problem is that I'd need heighten- but if I forgo Force of Personality-
    +4 Caster Levels from Fatesinger:
    24 Levels
    20 CHA
    3 Magister
    1 Spellsinger
    1 Spell Focus

    49 without trying- which on a will save will actually be super useful in EN/EH I suppose, on an item swap it would be up to 55 if I grind out a TF Rapier for it (and heals)

    Trying more while retaining melee power:
    24 Levels
    20 CHA
    3 Magister
    1 Spellsinger
    6 Item
    3 Bard PL
    1 Spell Focus

    59 Trying a bit harder by doing some TRs- probably won't do it because it won't be horribly reliable in EEs anyway.

    Losing out on shield masteries- which almost definitely isn't worth it, would add another 2 DCs.



    Thanks for giving me things to consider. Great thing about Lama is I can test it and see if I luvs it.
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  9. #29
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maelodic View Post
    The problem is that I'd need heighten- but if I forgo Force of Personality-
    +4 Caster Levels from Fatesinger:
    24 Levels
    20 CHA
    3 Magister
    1 Spellsinger
    1 Spell Focus

    49 without trying- which on a will save will actually be super useful in EN/EH I suppose, on an item swap it would be up to 55 if I grind out a TF Rapier for it (and heals)

    Trying more while retaining melee power:
    24 Levels
    20 CHA
    3 Magister
    1 Spellsinger
    6 Item
    3 Bard PL
    1 Spell Focus

    59 Trying a bit harder by doing some TRs- probably won't do it because it won't be horribly reliable in EEs anyway.

    Losing out on shield masteries- which almost definitely isn't worth it, would add another 2 DCs.
    I have heard from multiple people that 60 will DC is the magic number for EE. I don't have experience with this though, so I can't confirm how accurate that is. You should be able to reach 56 cha before any ED bonuses.

    Cha56: 18 base, 4 tome, 7 levels, 10 item, 3 insight, 1 exceptional, 1 human adaptability, 2 swashbuckler, 2 capstone, 1 spellsinger, 1 warchanter, 2 competence, 2 ship, 2 yugo

    Base spell DC is 10 + spell level. So...

    Otto's Sphere DC:
    10 base
    4 levels
    1 spell focus
    3 magister enchantment specialist
    1 spell song trance
    1 yellow marigold crown spellsinger enhancement
    23 cha56
    5 Sage's Mantle
    2 slotted enchantment focus topaz augment
    1 profane on shadowscale armor
    51 TOTAL
    10 mind fog
    5 crushing despair
    3 hypnotic pattern
    69 TOTAL WITH DEBUFFS
    2 greater/epic spell focus
    1 past life wiz
    1 bard past life
    2 heighten
    1 completionist
    76 TOTAL MAX just for the sake of completion

    I imagine you could get at least another 2-4 charisma if you're in fatesinger, adding another 1-2 DCs.

    Just an option.
    Totally Bass Ackwards ~ int based/heavy armored pure tempest<>The Count of Monte Cristo ~ dps/CC/survivability focused pure swashbuckler<>Santa's Little Slayer ~ dragonmarked elf centered kensai<>Hassan's Assassin ~ 76 DC/dps/survivability focused human assassin<>Dubbell O'Seven ~ casting/ranged WF artificer

  10. #30
    Hatchery Founder heimdallii's Avatar
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    like the build, was thinking about rocking something like this too when u22 drops.

    are you getting the bonus for doublestrike from the shield mastery feats when wielding a buckler?

    I tried this a couple weeks ago and didnt see the change, may want to double check as I was disappointed by the result - I feel it SHOULD work

  11. #31
    Community Member Maelodic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    I have heard from multiple people that 60 will DC is the magic number for EE. I don't have experience with this though, so I can't confirm how accurate that is. You should be able to reach 56 cha before any ED bonuses.

    Cha56: 18 base, 4 tome, 7 levels, 10 item, 3 insight, 1 exceptional, 1 human adaptability, 2 swashbuckler, 2 capstone, 1 spellsinger, 1 warchanter, 2 competence, 2 ship, 2 yugo

    Base spell DC is 10 + spell level. So...

    Otto's Sphere DC:
    10 base
    4 levels
    1 spell focus
    3 magister enchantment specialist
    1 spell song trance
    1 yellow marigold crown spellsinger enhancement
    23 cha56
    5 Sage's Mantle
    2 slotted enchantment focus topaz augment
    1 profane on shadowscale armor
    51 TOTAL
    10 mind fog
    5 crushing despair
    3 hypnotic pattern
    69 TOTAL WITH DEBUFFS
    2 greater/epic spell focus
    1 past life wiz
    1 bard past life
    2 heighten
    1 completionist
    76 TOTAL MAX just for the sake of completion

    I imagine you could get at least another 2-4 charisma if you're in fatesinger, adding another 1-2 DCs.

    Just an option.
    I'll play with it a bit more. A moderate/high DPS melee with an insta-kill and a reliable otto's sphere sounds absolutely ridiculous. Testing time this weekend.

    Quote Originally Posted by heimdallii View Post
    like the build, was thinking about rocking something like this too when u22 drops.

    are you getting the bonus for doublestrike from the shield mastery feats when wielding a buckler?

    I tried this a couple weeks ago and didnt see the change, may want to double check as I was disappointed by the result - I feel it SHOULD work
    I did get the doublestrike and PRR bonus with a buckler in the last implementation.
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  12. #32

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    My comment on rebellion had to do with the fact that it is also a shortsword but while it does have less fort bypass than thunderforge it does have a better crit profile while swashing 13-20x3 I believe.
    Last edited by Rathic; 06-03-2014 at 07:18 PM.
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  13. #33
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rathic View Post
    My comment on rebellion had to do with the fact that it is also a shortsword but while it does have less fort bypass than thunderforge it does have a better crit profile while swashing 13-20x3 I believe.
    Ah, you're right. I forgot about the increased inherent crit range on it.
    Totally Bass Ackwards ~ int based/heavy armored pure tempest<>The Count of Monte Cristo ~ dps/CC/survivability focused pure swashbuckler<>Santa's Little Slayer ~ dragonmarked elf centered kensai<>Hassan's Assassin ~ 76 DC/dps/survivability focused human assassin<>Dubbell O'Seven ~ casting/ranged WF artificer

  14. #34
    Community Member poltt48's Avatar
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    Actually 32% will be max dodge cap on this toon when this comes out since new buffs have a +2% dodge cap buff. Also should now always count ship buffs in your stuff. They now last 3 hours and though death.
    Soulsavour 28 cleric completionist/epic completionist, Soundofthe Melodymaster 20 lock completionist/triple epic completionist (working on triple normal completionist), Holypoo 28 pally epic completionist, Edgeofshadows 28 rogue

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    You might want to try wrangling things around to see if you can slot resonance somewhere: 138 sonic spell power is worth around 29 extra sonic damage a crit with Resonant Arms, though that's not worth losing devotion.

    Also, Swashbuckler gets enough bonuses to the Max Dex bonus of armor (+12) that you can wear light Shadowscale without hampering your Dodge in the slightest (though depending on how the dodge cap increases work, with ship buffs you may only be able to reach 31% instead of 32%, but you have an open blue slot to up that max dex just that last little bit.) Switching from the outfit to light armor will provide an extra 16 PRR

  16. #36
    Community Member Maelodic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwonbush View Post
    You might want to try wrangling things around to see if you can slot resonance somewhere: 138 sonic spell power is worth around 29 extra sonic damage a crit with Resonant Arms, though that's not worth losing devotion.

    Also, Swashbuckler gets enough bonuses to the Max Dex bonus of armor (+12) that you can wear light Shadowscale without hampering your Dodge in the slightest (though depending on how the dodge cap increases work, with ship buffs you may only be able to reach 31% instead of 32%, but you have an open blue slot to up that max dex just that last little bit.) Switching from the outfit to light armor will provide an extra 16 PRR
    I was planning on using the light armor- I probably should specify that in the equipment.

    I originally had slotted in resonance but discovered I was missing devotion and that stung. If I was an orb wielder it'd be admittedly a lot easier but the bonuses you get from the buckler are too damn high.

    Thought a rune arm bard with a ton of resonance using Music Box has plenty of potential. That 1d6 scales with sonic power too.
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    I'm hoping that there are some decent new bucklers with at least one red slot. Two slots would be even better since you could put both positive and sonic on the shield and not have to give up the weapon's red slot. But we won't have any idea what options we'll have until u22 goes live unfortunately.

    EDIT: If you only end up with two red slots total, it might even be worth it to just give up the sonic augment and put positive on the shield and a ruby of endless night on the weapon. With expanded vorpal and a 30% increased attack rate, I'm sure neg level procs will be much better than anything another 138 sonic spell power will do.
    Last edited by CThruTheEgo; 06-05-2014 at 07:01 AM.
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  18. #38
    Community Member Maelodic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    I'm hoping that there are some decent new bucklers with at least one red slot. Two slots would be even better since you could put both positive and sonic on the shield and not have to give up the weapon's red slot. But we won't have any idea what options we'll have until u22 goes live unfortunately.

    EDIT: If you only end up with two red slots total, it might even be worth it to just give up the sonic augment and put positive on the shield and a ruby of endless night on the weapon. With expanded vorpal and a 30% increased attack rate, I'm sure neg level procs will be much better than anything another 138 sonic spell power will do.
    The odds are I'll only end up with a single red slot- Guardbreaker and 10% Dodge is pretty fantastic and I can't see them switching either of those to a red slot.
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  19. #39
    Community Member Miow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maelodic View Post
    The odds are I'll only end up with a single red slot- Guardbreaker and 10% Dodge is pretty fantastic and I can't see them switching either of those to a red slot.
    Blasting chime isn't a bad option either?

  20. #40
    Community Member Maelodic's Avatar
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    Updated - Changes and Reasoning

    Half Elf:
    -+4 Stacking to saves
    -Diplomatic Immunity lasts through songs and makes soloing epic elites a lot easier because it's not nearly as hard to get fascinates off. It's also great for getting to enemies while taking less damage. I think it's reducing the damage by 25% before everything else- so it's pretty swell
    -Having multiple Diplomacy clickies and high diplomacy is a fantastic get out of jail free card
    -I don't need an extra feat apparently
    -I just like half-elves better than humans- fits my personality more

    Inspire Recklessness for Spellsong Trance:
    -I have about a hundred thousand buffs to handle and this three minute one is not worth the huge AP investment- I kept forgetting to put it on, the buff bar is too dang long and I tend to have no idea when it's not there. The timer is not synced with others like everything else, and I already have to pay attention to haste/displace/rage.
    -Bards perform best in a party (pun intended) and Spellsong Trance is considerably better for the party dynamic.
    -Wand and Scroll Mastery could be more than 1 point and I had more freedom to invest a bit in the half-elf tree.

    Epic Toughness for Force of Personality:
    -Wanting to go half-elf- this was a switch I decided to make. An alternate was Spell Focus: Enchant but something I've discovered with myself is that I hate keeping up with DCs. I like no-fail constantly. Perform checks are no-fail because the DC gets comfortably over 100.
    -I'm going to ETR a bunch so if I need to switch this around, I can.

    Rejuvination Cacoon for Sense Weakness:
    -I didn't need anymore healing power- but I did need more damage. Sense Weakness does well for this.

    Gameplay notes:
    -Epic Elites are pretty easy to solo with regenerating songs, Fascinate, Diplomatic Immunity, and Guardbreaker. Fascinate never fails, and you can keep an enemy perma-stunned with guardbreaker thanks to exploit weakness.
    -Epic Elites are also pretty easy to solo with just fascinate and invis. This isn't a new thing though. Difference is, you can easily kill each mob.
    -No song, including Dirge, breaks stealth or invis. You could go through an entire quest stealthed/invisible and just be a buff'n'dirge bot while rarely getting hit.
    -Make sure your trip actually goes off before hitting Coup de Grace- if the trip is a glancing blow it won't go off. If you're soloing via fascinate, if your trip doesn't land, just irresistible dance or siren's song and kill.
    -You hate getting crowd controlled.
    -Devourer’s Reaping does similar damage to Balizarde- and is better under Turn the Tide and for effects like Reign or Manslayer. It also has an extra colorless slot.
    -Turn the Tide is awesome. To long of a cooldown but turns you into a god-beast. Still not sure if it activates on other's yet.
    -If you're soloing, you probably want to be in Fatesinger because you're going to spam the **** out of Fascinate.
    -You're good with throwing weapons- expanded crit range and exploit weakness helps.

    Alternative builds I considered (Still 20 Bard):
    Actually a Monk/Fighter with working quivering palm:
    Shield Masteries>Power Attack/Cleave
    Force of Personality>Great Cleave
    Fatesinger>Legendary Dreadnaught
    Sense Weakness>Reign
    CHA>STR

    Saves n CC n Damage:
    Buckler>Orb
    (Siren's Song/Irresistable Dance for insta-kill)
    Half-Elf>Human
    L1 Feat>SF: Enchant
    Shield Masteries>Power Attack/Cleave
    Force of Personality>Great Cleave
    Fatesinger>Legendary Dreadnaught

    Ranged Improved Precise Shot Coup De Grace (not tested - won't have time, can somebody test if ranged coup de grace applies to imp. precise shot?):
    Focus on Enchant DC for long ranged controls
    Mass Hold/Otto's Sphere
    Line em up and kill them all at once

    Lasting Inspiration>Forced Escape (Really fricken hate crowd control)

    Alternate destinies that would totes work:
    Divine Crusader (Kind of the melee "thing" right now)
    -You get less of a bonus from celestial champion because exploit weakness applies it after one hit.
    -Hjeals/hjeal amp and aoe damage is nice
    -Zeal of the Rightous is Godly

    Exalted Angel
    -Wings
    -Soundburst SLA
    -Sunbolt SLA
    -Reborn in Light
    (Force of Personality>Maximize)

    Legendary Dreadnought
    -Headsman Chop/Devastating Critical
    -Blitz
    -Haste Boost
    ~Sarlona~ - Proud Member of The Unrepentant
    Maelodic - Rockin all the day long
    Quote Originally Posted by Scraap View Post
    Praise Dog, and Maelodic, his prophet.

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