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  1. #1
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    Default Poppytop Monkcher

    I am in the process of updating this build to how I have it set up for u24, and my recent completionist status.
    Is this a good setup? I led the first EE completion of MoD on the Khyber server and, um, preformed OK, so I guess it is acceptable at the very least. At the time of posting I also ran this build, without completionist, as a member of the speed record team for EE MoD.

    Build Priorities:
    Flexibility of role, so it can run with most/all party comps, and so that I can take whomever hits my lfm and not be picky.
    Halfling, because few things are funnier than a tiny girl being chased by/tanking the big raid boss.
    High damage output, because said tiny girl *killing* the raid boss is even funnier. Oh, and I'm impatient and want quests to go quickly.
    Survivable with really high saves so I am able to be really sloppy at taking care of myself.
    Ranged so I don't have to move as much.
    Not a thrower build because I do not like the animation.

    Class split:
    12 Monk, 6 Ranger, 2 Paladin

    Race:
    Halfling

    Base Stats / Tome / Number of Level ups / Lv 28 geared value:
    Note: Values given in Fury of the Wild and in earth stance, ship buffs
    Strength: 12 / 5 / 0 / 39 (for a base of 23@ lv 21 to get Overwhelming Crit)
    Dexterity: 16 / 5 / 0 / 36 (for a base of 21@ lv 24 to get Combat Archery)
    Constitution: 10 / 5 / 0 / 40 (and I still break 1k hp at 28)
    Intelligence: 14 / 5 / 0 / 26
    Wisdom: 16 / 5 / 7 / 51
    Charisma: 14 / 5 / 0 / 34

    Past Lives: Low impact ones in italics
    Monk x3 Paladin x3 Rogue x1 Cleric x1 Ranger x3
    Artificer, Barbarian, Bard, Druid, Favored Soul, Fighter, Sorcerer, Wizard

    Epic Past Lives: Inactive ones are in italics
    Fast Healing x3, Brace x3, Fortification x3, Enchant Weapon x3
    Power over Life and Death x1, Energy Criticals x1, Doubleshot x3, Doublestrike x3, Block Energy x3

    Iconic Past Lives:
    Purple Dragon Knight x3, Bladeforged x2

    Level : Class : Feat : (Bonus Feat) : *Feats at 28 if different* : # STAT LEVELUP
    1 : Ranger : Point Blank Shot : (Favored Enemy: Undead)
    2 : Monk : (Zen Archery)
    3 : Monk : Completionist : (Percision)
    4 : Monk : (Fists of Light) : # +1 Wisdom
    5 : Ranger
    6 : Ranger : Initiate of the Faith
    7 : Ranger
    8 : Monk : # +1 Wisdom
    9 : Monk : Deflect Arrows :
    10 : Monk
    11 : Monk
    12 : Monk : Improved Critical: Ranged : # +1 Wisdom
    13 : Monk
    14 : Monk
    15 : Monk : Improved Precise Shot
    16 : Monk : # +1 Wisdom
    17 : Paladin :
    18 : Paladin : Grand Master of Forms
    19 : Ranger : (Favored Enemy: Human)
    20 : Ranger : # +1 Wisdom
    21 : Epic : Overwhelming Critical OC is worth about 7.69% more damage with a standard crit profile bow in Earth Stance
    24 : Epic : Combat Archery : # +1 Wisdom
    26 : Epic : Holy Strike *or* Toughness *or* Positive Spell Power (currently Toughness)
    27 : Epic : Blinding Speed
    28 : Epic : Elusive Target : # +1 Wisdom

    [B]Feats, in order, following an ETR and leveling to 28:
    There are no longer any swaps because I used a stone to bypass heroics, so just follow the order on the level up to get what my build is.
    Why Initiate of the Faith instead of Halfling Dragonmark in the epics? I find IotF to be enough extra healing to get me through quests when combined with cocoon and fast healing 3/3, and it doesn't cost me any AP in enhancements to get. At 28 with default gear it hits me for about 550-650 hp, and when I die it is almost always massive damage before I can heal or that I was knocked down and unable to heal, almost never that I couldn't heal for enough.

    Skill Priority: Skill value given with only ship buffs, in default gear, in FotW ED.
    UMD 45(11 ranks), Concentration 82 (23 ranks), Balance 54 (17 ranks), Move Silently 71[91 w/ RoS] (23 Ranks), Hide 72 [92 w/ RoS] (23 ranks), Heal 79 (23 Ranks), Tumble 39(1 Rank). Jump 47 (14 Ranks),
    This is not an ideal skill layout. I like stealthing quests and am trying really hard to figure out if balance makes a difference (I don't think it does atm). UMD, Concentration, Heal, and Diplomacy are the skills more worth investing in than what I have.

    Default Gear Layout:
    Note: This gear layout isn't final, but I have yet to manage to pull a mythic Emerald Gaze so this is what I run currently. Bolded items are unlikely to change. Italic items have their replacement ready but changing them will unslot features I want to keep for now.
    Goggles: Epic Glimpse of the Soul, (Topaz of Power 250, Vitality 20)
    Head: EE White Dragon Helm, +3 Con, (Crushing Wave Gaurd, Globe of TIB)
    Neck: Shround of Ardent, (False Life 40, Dex 8) RIP Epic Unwavering Ardency
    Trinket: Epic Litany of the Dead, (Acid Resist 35, Good Luck 2)
    Cloak: Smoke II Greensteel HP
    Belt: Epic Belt of Thoughtful Rememberance (Topaz of Fear Immunity, Golem's Heart)
    Ring 1: Epic Ring of the Stalker (Vitality 20, Gift of the Master)
    Ring 2: Sage's Ring (Heal 13 Slotted)
    Gloves: Sanctified Gages (Electric Resist 35, Strength 8) RIP Enduring Conviction
    Boots: Orcish Privateer's Boots (Insightful Wisdom 2)
    Bracers: Convalescent Bracers of Parrying
    Robe: Fully Upgraded White Dragon robes (Natural Armor 7)
    Quiver: EE Quiver of Poison
    Bow: Complete Thunderforged Longbow; First Degree Burns, Dragon's Edge, Mortal Fear; (Insightful Strength 2, Meteoric Star Ruby Slotted)

    Default Enhancements:
    Note that I change my enhancements a lot. Also note that I don't do well remembering to keep myself buffed or use boosts so I don't take em in these trees; There are stronger layouts than this one, but this is good enough.
    NOTE: I do not currently have the harper tree; This changes the enhancements I use a bit.
    Halfling: All core; 7 pts
    Arcane Archer: Force arrows 3/3, Inferno Shot 3/3, Soul Magic, Slayer Arrow, Rune bow, Moon Bow, Morphic Arrows, 2 Points of Wisdom, Conjure Arrows, Awareness 3/3; 36 pts
    Deepwood Stalker: Sniper Shot, Stealthy 3/3, Increased Empathy 3/3, Versatile Empathy 2/2, 1 Point of Wisdom; 12 pts
    Henshin Mystic: Contemplation 3/3; 8 pts
    Shintao: Iron Hand(3ed core), 1 Point of Wisdom; 13 points
    and 3 AP that float (currently in shintao for PRR and 1 point in KotC tree for light damage)

    EPIC DESTINY LAYOUTS
    I usually run this build in either Legendary Dreadnought or Fury of the Wild
    Fury of the Wild 1171 HP, earth stance, ship buffs
    Used for raids, some quests, and when I am running with a good blitzer. The objective here is chunking bosses quickly.
    Primal Scream 3/3, Acute Instincts 3/3, Damage Reduction 2/3, Fury Eternal, Unbridled Fury, 6 points of Strength.
    Legendary Dreadnought I no longer run in LD; The ranged power it grants isn't enough for the ED to be as strong as Fury. Goodbye blitz.
    Twists
    A Dance of Flowers and Rejuvenation Cocoon are (almost) always twisted.
    For my other twist slots I may twist
    Purify Weapon - More damage, bypass Good DR, make the Thunderholme bow shiny (not often used now that I have a shiny cosmetic bow.)
    Stand With Stone - More HP and PRR, used when I face-tank dracolitches (which I do on EH/EN quite a bit, and rarely on EE(more likely to kite on EE)) (Currently twisted)
    Grim Precision / Piercing Clarity - For more fort bypass. Usually don't bother to switch to these when needed.
    Bane of Undeath - If I ever decide to run Divine Might and/or bother to change twists for doing Shadow Dragon raid
    Commanding Presence - Sometimes I replace aDoF with this when I twist Stand With Stone if I have really high damage people in party and want to be 100% sure that I can hold aggro. Useful if you want to control mobs instead of the paladin/barbs. (Currently Twisted)
    Unearthly Reactions - When I need that tiny bit more reflex, or want to tumble around in a cloud of blue smoke.

    Interesting numbers at 28 with ship buffs:
    Saves (Earth Stance, FotW)
    Fortitude: 74
    Reflex: 70 (Improved Evasion)
    Will: 75
    Other Numbers (Earth stance, FotW)
    BAB: 21/24
    Fortification: 155%
    HP: 1143
    Spell Points: 1011
    PRR: 111 (52.61%)
    Positive Spell Power: 315
    Ki: 84(+1)/255 upon entering a quest
    AC: 154
    Dodge: 19%
    Last edited by Ladislaio; 01-25-2015 at 09:44 PM. Reason: Completionist update

  2. #2
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    Default Comments on my build

    Is this a good build? That question gets asked about lots of builds. And, as always, it is much easier to determine if the build is bad than if it is good. In an effort to answer this a lot of people try to list what they were able to solo, how quickly they could kill particular mobs, and/or find weaker builds to compare them too. I'm sure there are other ways(like the method I am going to use), but I cannot think of them at this time. I also should note that some people go as far as to make videos to show how awesome their build is.
    I am not going to list what I have solo'd. I have soloed more than my fair share of difficult quests, but I loose interest in the quest if I am doing it alone so I haven't done any of the longer ones. My computer is old and has enough trouble playing the game that I am not going to be making any videos of my questing for you to watch. I am a lazy player, never using my clickies, boosts, or remembering to self buff more than once a quest. Even the 11 min Ram's Might only gets cast once or twice each quest, and I rarely use primal scream more than twice. I don't play that carefully or bother to put much work into lining up my IPS before sending an adren slayer downfield. My build and gear layout reflect this: I slot perma-blur, my saves are high enough ever without ship buffs or GH, I do not have situational gear swapping(usually), and I have much more HP than I really need so I can be a little bit slower on my heals.

    Having said all of that, I still do really well. I play almost entirely endgame content, not the (E)TR grind(as one can see from the sparse past lives). I very rarely die despite not paying close attention to things like my positioning. I do pug a lot, but the build is strong enough that I don't have to be picky about who I take at all. At the very least the build get the job done, and while some gear can be improved(which I'm working on), the passive damage on the build is about as high as it can get so it gets the job done quickly.

    I do hope you have found this build interesting, informative, or at the very least not a waste of your time reading.

    Happy questing all!
    Last edited by Ladislaio; 05-17-2014 at 09:02 PM.

  3. #3
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    Default Overwhelming Critical Damage Calculation

    Before anybody can ask how I got 7.69%, I shall explain...
    D = Total Damage
    MD = Damage that is multiplied with a crit
    CoH = Chance of a hit; Constant, 0.95 for this calculation.
    CoC = Chance of a confirmed Crit; Constant, 0.1*0.95 = 0.095 for this Calculation
    CoCOC = Chance of a Confirmed Overwhelming Crit; Constant, 0.095 for this Calculation
    Dproc = Damage that is from procs or otherwise not multiplied on a crit.
    CM = Critical Multiplier; Constant, 3 for this Calculation
    OCM = Overwhelming Critical Multiplier; Includes Earth Stance; 5 for this calculation

    D = MD*(CoH-CoC)+MD*CM*(CoC-CoCOC)+MD*OCM*(CoCOC)+Dproc
    Factor out the MD and get
    D = MD*((CoH-CoC)+CM*(CoC-CoCOC)+OCM*(CoCOC))+Dproc
    Above is the basic damage calculation. Now plug in the Constants
    D = MD*((0.95-0.095)+3*(0.095-0.095)+5*(0.095))+Dproc
    The constants reduce to
    D = MD*1.33+Dproc (Damage Calculation with OC, earth stance, normal crit range)

    Without Overwhelming Crtical the contstants change as follows:
    OCM = 4 (just earth stance)
    Plugging this into the equation instead of the other OCM value
    D = MD*((0.95-0.095)+3*(0.095-0.095)+4*(0.095))+Dproc
    D = MD*1.235+Dproc (Damage Calculation with earth stance, normal crit range)

    In LD we have some changes to the crit profile, so the constants change a bit too
    OCM = 6 (Earth stance, Overwhelming, Devastating Critical)
    CoC = .2*.95= .19
    D = MD*((0.95-.19)+3*(0.19-0.095)+6*(0.095))+Dproc
    D = MD*1.615+Dproc

    In LD without OC we have
    OCM = 5 (Earth stance, Devastating Critical)
    CoC = .2*.95= .19
    D = MD*((0.95-.19)+3*(0.19-0.095)+5*(0.095))+Dproc
    D = MD*1.52+Dproc

    In Fury using Adren w/ OC
    OCM = 5 (Earth stance, Overwhelming Critical)
    CoC = .90*.95= .855
    Adren = 4
    D = Adren*MD*((0.95-.855)+3*(0.855-0.095)+5*(0.095))+Dproc
    D = MD*2.85*4+Dproc
    D = MD*11.4+Dproc

    In Fury using Adren w/o OC
    OCM = 4 (Earth stance)
    CoC = .90*.95= .855
    Adren = 4
    D = Adren*MD*((0.95-.855)+3*(0.855-0.095)+4*(0.095))+Dproc
    D = MD*2.755*4+Dproc
    D = MD*11.02+Dproc

    Now I get a bit lazy. Dproc is hard to calculate, I'd have to actually look at what gear I am using. So for this I just let it be 0. I *know* this isn't that accurate, and is even less accurate with how much proc damage Thunderholme weapons do, but I am going to just do it and make anybody who cares more about this than me unhappy. Sorry to you guys out there, you can plug your own numbers in if you care that much.

    Letting Dproc = 0 we can get the following numbers out of the damage multipliers:
    1.33 Standard, with OC and Earth
    1.235 Standard, no OC, but with Earth
    OC/nOC = 1.33/1.235 = 1.0769...
    1.615 LD, with OC and Earth
    1.52 LD, no OC, but with Earth
    OC/nOC = 1.615/1.52 = 1.0625
    11.4 Adren, with OC and Earth
    11.02 Adren, no OC, but with Earth
    OC/nOC = 11.4/11.02 = 1.0344...

    Thus the damage improvement ranges from about 3.4% to 7.7%, depending on what exactly I am doing; Most arrows will be near the higher end of that number, and knowing that that is the high end of the number is just a reward to those of you who choose to read this post. Everyone else can just, well, not know that
    Last edited by Ladislaio; 05-17-2014 at 06:57 PM. Reason: finished up the post

  4. #4
    Community Member Xiadais's Avatar
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    Default

    Maths ftw.

  5. #5
    Community Member jakeelala's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ladislaio View Post

    Feats, in order, following an ETR and leveling to 28: Bonus feats in italics
    Point Blank Shot, Power attack, Cleave, Zen Archery, Fists of Light, Great Cleave, Improved Crit: Ranged, Improved Precise Shot, 10k Stars, Precision, Initiate of the Faith; Overwhelming Critical, Combat Archery, Holy Strike, Blinding Speed, Elusive Target
    Why Initiate of the Faith instead of Halfling Dragonmark in the epics? I find IotF to be enough extra healing to get me through quests when combined with cocoon and fast healing 3/3, and it doesn't cost me any AP in enhancements to get. At 28 with default gear it hits me for about 350-450 hp, and when I die it is almost always massive damage before I can heal or that I was knocked down and unable to heal, almost never that I couldn't heal for enough.
    Does healing word get regenerated with Draconic Re-invigoration?

  6. #6
    Community Member jakeelala's Avatar
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    Also I will say poppy is the best all around Monkcher I play with.

    It is nice to see your calcs on OC, because for my thrower build, I always suspected OC was not a good choice. Considering the differences in Crit Multiplier and, attack speed, and total damage from crit multiplied sources on my thrower versus sneak attack and proc damage, it would be VERY hard to justify OC for it.

    I tried to give this thread 6 Star's but you didn't complete an optional objective: include a sweet screenshot of your character all kitted out.

  7. #7
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    Default OC Shuriken

    Quote Originally Posted by jakeelala View Post
    Does healing word get regenerated with Draconic Re-invigoration?
    I do not know, it isn't something that is listed on the description, and extra action boost things do not improve the number of uses. Maybe I'll run some double drangons and not roll off my phlogs and then see if it works.

    OC With a Shuriken
    OCM = 3 (Overwhelming Critical)
    CM = 2
    CoC = .1*.95= .095
    D = MD*((0.95-.095)+2*(0.095-0.095)+3*(0.095))+Dproc
    D = MD*1.14+Dproc

    Standard Shuriken
    OCM = 2 (Same as a normal crit)
    CM = 2
    D = MD*((0.95-.095)+2*(0.095-0.095)+2*(0.095))+Dproc
    D = MD*1.045+Dproc

    1.14/1.045 = 1.0909...
    So about 9% damage improvement with shuriken... but that isn't quite correct as your Dproc value is SO HIGH with running in shiradi and whatnot. So I wouldn't sack more than 2 points of dex to get OC, not that I have looked closely at what you need to do in order to get it on your build, but I am inclined to agree with you that it isn't worth it.

  8. #8
    Community Member jakeelala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladislaio View Post
    I do not know, it isn't something that is listed on the description, and extra action boost things do not improve the number of uses. Maybe I'll run some double drangons and not roll off my phlogs and then see if it works.

    OC With a Shuriken
    OCM = 3 (Overwhelming Critical)
    CM = 2
    CoC = .1*.95= .095
    D = MD*((0.95-.095)+2*(0.095-0.095)+3*(0.095))+Dproc
    D = MD*1.14+Dproc

    Standard Shuriken
    OCM = 2 (Same as a normal crit)
    CM = 2
    D = MD*((0.95-.095)+2*(0.095-0.095)+2*(0.095))+Dproc
    D = MD*1.045+Dproc

    1.14/1.045 = 1.0909...
    So about 9% damage improvement with shuriken... but that isn't quite correct as your Dproc value is SO HIGH with running in shiradi and whatnot. So I wouldn't sack more than 2 points of dex to get OC, not that I have looked closely at what you need to do in order to get it on your build, but I am inclined to agree with you that it isn't worth it.
    Right. My MD is ~78 Damage a star. 78*.09 = ~7 Average more physical damage per Star.

    My Dproc, currently, would be 200% more than my physical damage without OC. That is to say:
    TF Weapon Procs: ~75 Avg Dmg
    Sneak Attack Damage: ~75 Avg Dmg
    vs
    Base Damage non-Crit: 78 Avg Dmg

    7/78+75+75= .03 or a real world increase of 3% total damage. Well guessed, that's right around the value of 2 Dex.

  9. #9
    Community Member Xiadais's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakeelala View Post
    Right. My MD is ~78 Damage a star. 78*.09 = ~7 Average more physical damage per Star.

    My Dproc, currently, would be 200% more than my physical damage without OC. That is to say:
    TF Weapon Procs: ~75 Avg Dmg
    Sneak Attack Damage: ~75 Avg Dmg
    vs
    Base Damage non-Crit: 78 Avg Dmg

    7/78+75+75= .03 or a real world increase of 3% total damage. Well guessed, that's right around the value of 2 Dex.
    Assuming 82 vs 80 DEX (because why not): 2.64 shurikens per throw (S/t) vs 2.6 S/t = 1.5385% difference in *total* damage (72 DEX vs 70 DEX is 1.6666666% difference in S/t, so this doesn't vary much with 70+ DEX); 1 damage modifier = about half a percent difference in damage due to Dproc existing... So 2 Dex is ~2% DPS if you add the effects of S/t and "main" damage numbers. [Your Dproc is probably off by a bit anyway, so these are all rough estimates, of course.]

    OC = 4 feats for a typical shuriken thrower--PA, Cleave, Great Cleave, OC... If it fits for feats, it might be worth it, but I'd hate trying to do that. Although if you wanted to be antilazy and Blitz, the cleaves would make charging it much less painful.

    Aside:
    Don't debate whether SD or LD is more damage with a shuriken chucker... From above, 6 DEX difference is losing about 12% DPS; losing 21 SA damage is about 10% DPS; multiply base and sneak damage by 3.5 for +135% damage overall. You'll also gain Devastating Criticals which is basically OC (3% DPS, minor compared to blitz, although multiplied by blitz so about 10%), and Advancing Blows (overcompensates for the "base" damage loss from DEX). You could also take Damage Boost, and would get +60 HP (more with CON abilities if taken) and Combat Brute for the +50% damage to helpless things while boosting... Without Combat Brute and Damage Boost, it's somewhere around 235% of the damage of SD.
    That said, I completely understand that people hate LD and blitzing, and it is not too effective in some quests or in large groups (unless the large group is in an excellently blitzable quest like FoTP).
    If the enemies are such meat-sacks that the majority of your damage comes from Mortal Fear, even while blitzing, having more S/t (from DEX, from SD) would be better than blitzing. I don't think that's very likely, though, except maybe against those orange-named salamanders in EE FotP? I don't think so, though, and the rest of the trash still needs efficient killing.


    Sorry for being a noob who throws stupid numbers around.

  10. #10
    Community Member Tinco's Avatar
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    Just a small advice:

    If you're calculating damage, simply simulate 20 rolls where 1..20 are rolled once and ignore critical confirmation. You get an easier estimation of effective hits per attack that way:

    19-20/x5 ~ 1 miss, 17 normal hits, 10 hits from crit (2*5) = 27/20 = 1.35, meaning you do 1.35 effective hits per attack.
    Since OC contributes exactly 2 hit events (or 0.1 ehits) to that formula, it's contribution is 0.1 / 1.35 * 100, or ~7.4%.

    And that never changes (as long as your crit profile doesn't change) - if you only use stuff that can actually crit.

    Problem is the ominous "DProc". Depending on situation (boss/trash) and weapons, I'd rather lean towards ~6% effective dps for OC.
    Last edited by Tinco; 05-28-2014 at 12:21 PM.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinco View Post
    Just a small advice:

    If you're calculating damage, simply simulate 20 rolls where 1..20 are rolled once and ignore critical confirmation. You get an easier estimation of effective hits per attack that way:

    19-20/x5 ~ 1 miss, 17 normal hits, 10 hits from crit (2*5) = 27/20 = 1.35, meaning you do 1.35 effective hits per attack.
    Since OC contributes exactly 2 hit events (or 0.1 ehits) to that formula, it's contribution is 0.1 / 1.35 * 100, or ~7.4%.

    And that never changes (as long as your crit profile doesn't change) - if you only use stuff that can actually crit.

    Problem is the ominous "DProc". Depending on situation (boss/trash) and weapons, I'd rather lean towards ~6% effective dps for OC.
    Proc damage on a thrower is vastly higher than 6% physical dps in ALL situations. It's closer to 33%, and sometimes higher, or much higher, on trash with mortal fear. For Poppys monkcher of course, that probably isn't true especially on red/purple names, though on trash with mortal fear it may be especially on EH or higher.

  12. #12
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    Default Don't fear maths!

    Quote Originally Posted by jakeelala View Post
    Proc damage on a thrower is vastly higher than 6% physical dps in ALL situations. It's closer to 33%, and sometimes higher, or much higher, on trash with mortal fear. For Poppys monkcher of course, that probably isn't true especially on red/purple names, though on trash with mortal fear it may be especially on EH or higher.
    Hmm, is it true? Proc damage for my bow against an undead non-dragon red or purple name is going to be 1st Degree Burns (5d6) + Mortal Fear (8d8) + Undead damage from KotC (1d6) + Force Arrows (1d6 / 3d10*.9*.95) + Alchemical Force (1), and that doesn't account for sneak attack. I don't think quiver of poison works on them, it shouldn't but I've never paid close enough attention. 5*3.5+8*4.5+3.5+3.5+3*5.5*.9*.95+1 = 75.6; Thus proc damage is worth about 75 points of damage on my bow.

    I went into a kobold assault and killed em all (cuz I still needed the favor), and paying attention to the damage on non crits (I was in Fury) I saw values ranging from 71 - 105 for my hits, most of them were around 86 I think. I just eyeballed em so I could be a bit off. But this means that the proc damage is roughly the same as the core damage with my bow, a bit less but not *that* much less. so I'm looking at an effective 4% total damage improvement or so with OC, which, according the formula on the wiki, should be worth 5+ points of wisdom with the improvement to 10k stars rate of fire. Since to get OC I'm only giving up 4-6 points of wisdom, and OC improves my damage during Manyshot so the weighting is a bit more in favor of OC than this really rough eyeball shows, and OC allows for easy blitz'n, AND strength improved the damage on each arrow, the numbers clearly imply that OC is worth taking on a Monkcher.

    If I want to clear bosses, OC is better damage improvment; if I want to clear trash, Blitz is better damage improvement; Thus OC is a good choice for DPS monkcher builds.

    On the little advice, I don't really understand why you think it is better to do a rough "If you're calculating damage, simply simulate 20 rolls where 1..20 are rolled once and ignore critical confirmation" than get one equation that you can use to compare effective dps in against several things. The way I did it also allows for fortification to be factored in too -
    D = MD*(1+(fraction amount)*(1-fortification amount, min 0)+Dproc
    And completely ignoring Dproc would make some people think pinion is a better choice:

    Fury Monkcher, Earth Stance t3 and OC (Thunderholme, Most bows)
    D = MD*((0.95-0.095)+3*(0.095-0.095)+5*(0.095))+Dproc
    D = MD*1.33+Dproc
    Fury Monkcher, Earth Stance t3 and OC (Pinion, Unwavering Ardancy)
    D = MD*((0.95-0.19)+3*(0.19-0.095)+5*(0.095))+Dproc
    D = MD*1.52+Dproc

    1.52/1.33 = 1.14 in favor of pinion, so 14% more physical damage (but a lower BASE damage, and a *much* lower proc damage, so...)
    Dproc for pinion = 3d6 + 1d6/ 3d10*.8*.95 + 1 = 27.54 or so
    Dproc for thunderholme = (over) 76
    14% of the High End of the thunderholme MD(which is higher than the high end on pinion) only comes out to about 15 points of damage, so, even giving pinion some generous rounding, it comes out over 30 points of damage less than the thunderholme against non-dragon bosses. Add mortal fear, fortification, epic dragon bane, dragon's edge, and the fact that it looks better with Purify Weapon twisted, the DR bypass properties, the extra slot, and, well, poor Pinion shows its ML:23 status.

  13. #13
    Community Member Jezebel's Avatar
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    Default 32 pt build to get started for this...Which stats to gimp?

    Which stats should i gimp to start a 32 pt build? --

    Thanks!
    - You see things; and you say, "Why?"
    But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?" -


    Jezebel - 11th Level Sorceror
    Llothlorien - 8th Level Ranged Fighter
    Sindal - 8th Level Dex Fighter
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    Nazareth - 10th Level BattleCleric

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jezebel View Post
    Which stats should i gimp to start a 32 pt build? --

    Thanks!
    I would not recommend this build for a first life toon. There are too many stats that you need to hit to get everything I wanted out of it, and this needs tomes and 36 build points. If you want a (lower damage) version at 32 points, take a look at Sestra's old build or just do something like this:

    Halfling first life monkcher, +3 tomes, no feat swapping
    12 str 16 dex 12 con 8 int 16 wisdom 14 charisma
    or if you worry about HP (you shouldn't, but some people do a lot)
    12 str 16 dex 16 con 8 int 16 wisdom 8 charisma

    Level : Class : Feat : (Bonus Feat) : *Feats at 28 if different* : # STAT LEVELUP
    1 : Ranger : Lesser Dragonmark
    2 : Ranger : (Precision)
    3 : Ranger : Point Blank Shot: (Zen Archery)
    4 : Ranger : : # +1 Dex
    5 : Monk : (Precision)
    6 : Monk : Maximize : (Zen Archery)
    7 : Monk : (Fists of Light)
    8 : Monk : # +1 Dex
    9 : Ranger : Improved Crit: Ranged : (Favored Enemy: Undead)
    10 : Ranger
    11 : Paladin
    12 : Paladin : Improved Precise Shot : # +1 Wisdom
    13 : Monk
    14 : Monk : (10k Stars)
    15 : Monk : Quicken
    16 : Monk : # +1 Wisdom (or, if you worry about HP, +1 Con)
    17 : Monk
    18 : Monk : Luck of Heroes (or, if you worry about HP, toughness)
    19 : Monk
    20 : Monk : # +1 Wisdom (or, if you worry about HP, +1 Con)
    21 : Epic : Combat Archery
    24 : Epic : Great Wisdom (or, if you worry about HP, Epic Toughness): # +1 Wisdom
    26 : Epic : Toughness
    27 : Epic : Blinding Speed
    28 : Epic : Elusive Target : # +1 Wisdom

    That should more or less work for you. Kinda really slow going until level 12 tho. Geared out it should work well in epics tho!
    Poppytop of Khyber; I have no alts. Sodapoppy, Poppydieslot, and Poppytart may never be seen in the same party as me but, I assure you, that is because of reasons other than their being alts.
    Come party with the Poppy! Join the BrattyTop flight!

  15. #15
    2016 DDO Players Council UurlockYgmeov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladislaio;5335876
    [B
    Build Priorities:[/B]
    Flexibility of role, so it can run with most/all party comps, and so that I can take whomever hits my lfm and not be picky.
    Halfling, because few things are funnier than a tiny girl being chased by/tanking the big raid boss.
    High damage output, because said tiny girl *killing* the raid boss is even funnier. Oh, and I'm impatient and want quests to go quickly.
    Survivable with really high saves so I am able to be really sloppy at taking care of myself.
    Ranged so I don't have to move as much.
    Not a thrower build because I do not like the animation.
    made me LAUGH - and roll out of chair crying.

    Uurlock has been doing his Monk lives in a very similar build - also as a halfling; seeing him being chased by fatty and skinny all the while running backwards throwing resurrections and heals - while his parrot throws insults is hilarious.

    Solid build - and always fun running with Poppytop.

  16. #16
    2015 DDO Players Council
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    Default Archive of pre-u23 build info

    So I didn't want to loose the old post but it needs changed a LOT so I'm archiving it here.

    So I have been asked 5 times in the last two days about my build and thus I'm going to post it. I know the forum is flooded with monkcher builds already and that there are just tiny differences between them, but I will try to highlight why I made the choices I have. I've been running this build almost constantly since u19 let me get higher level AA enhancments on a halfling(Which Poppy always is).

    Build Priorities:
    Flexibility of role, so it can run with most/all party comps, and so that I can take whomever hits my lfm and not be picky.
    Halfling, because few things are funnier than a tiny girl being chased by/tanking the big raid boss.
    High damage output, because said tiny girl *killing* the raid boss is even funnier. Oh, and I'm impatient and want quests to go quickly.
    Survivable with really high saves so I am able to be really sloppy at taking care of myself.
    Ranged so I don't have to move as much.
    Not a thrower build because I do not like the animation.

    Class split:
    12 Monk, 6 Ranger, 2 Paladin

    Race:
    Halfling

    Base Stats / Tome / Number of Level ups / Lv 28 geared value:
    Note: Values given in Legendary Dreadnought and in earth stance, ship buffs
    Strength: 14 / 5 / 4 / 39 (for a base of 23@ lv 21 to get Overwhelming Crit)
    Dexterity: 16 / 5 / 0 / 35 (for a base of 21@ lv 24 to get Combat Archery)
    Constitution: 12 / 5 / 0 / 35 (and I still break 1k hp at 28)
    Intelligence: 8 / 4 / 0 / 15
    Wisdom: 16 / 5 / 3 / 44 (WOOT! Pulled my +5)
    Charisma: 14 / 4 / 0 / 31

    Past Lives: Low impact ones in italics
    Monk x3 Paladin x2 Rogue x1
    Cleric x1
    Favored Soul, Sorcerer

    Epic Past Lives: Inactive ones are in italics
    Fast Healing x3, Brace x3, Fortification x3, Enchant Weapon x3
    Power over Life and Death x1, Energy Criticals x1, Doubleshot x1, Doublestrike x1

    Level : Class : Feat : (Bonus Feat) : *Feats at 28 if different* : # STAT LEVELUP
    1 : Ranger : Lesser Dragonmark *retrain into PBS at level 11 before taking level 12*
    2 : Monk : (Power Attack)
    3 : Monk : Cleave : (Zen Archery)
    4 : Monk : (Fists of Light) : # +1 Strength
    5 : Ranger
    6 : Ranger : Great Cleave *retrain into Lesser Dragonmark at level 11 before taking level 12* *Retrain into Initiate of the Faith at 25*
    7 : Ranger
    8 : Monk : # +1 Strength
    9 : Ranger : Improved Crit: Bludgeoning *retrain into IC: Ranged at level 11 before taking 12* : (Favored Enemy: Undead)
    10 : Ranger
    11 : Paladin *Note that I do a lot of feat swaps at this level; Starting at level 12 I start using a bow instead of wraps*
    12 : Paladin : Improved Precise Shot : # +1 Strength
    13 : Monk
    14 : Monk : (10k Stars)
    15 : Monk : Precision
    16 : Monk : # +1 Strength
    17 : Monk
    18 : Monk : Master of Forms *Retrain into Great Cleave before taking level 20*
    19 : Monk
    20 : Monk : # +1 Wisdom
    21 : Epic : Overwhelming Critical OC is worth about 7.69% more damage with a standard crit profile bow in Earth Stance
    24 : Epic : Combat Archery : # +1 Wisdom
    26 : Epic : Holy Strike *or* Toughness *or* Positive Spell Power (currently Holy Strike. Tiny damage is still damage)
    27 : Epic : Blinding Speed
    28 : Epic : Elusive Target : # +1 Wisdom

    Feats, in order, following an ETR and leveling to 28: Bonus feats in italics
    Point Blank Shot, Power attack, Cleave, Zen Archery, Fists of Light, Great Cleave, Improved Crit: Ranged, Improved Precise Shot, 10k Stars, Precision, Initiate of the Faith; Overwhelming Critical, Combat Archery, Holy Strike, Blinding Speed, Elusive Target
    Why Initiate of the Faith instead of Halfling Dragonmark in the epics? I find IotF to be enough extra healing to get me through quests when combined with cocoon and fast healing 3/3, and it doesn't cost me any AP in enhancements to get. At 28 with default gear it hits me for about 350-450 hp, and when I die it is almost always massive damage before I can heal or that I was knocked down and unable to heal, almost never that I couldn't heal for enough.

    Skill Priority: Skill value given with no buffs at all, in default gear, in LD ED.
    UMD 38(11 ranks), Concentration 56 (21 ranks), Balance 51 (20 ranks), Move Silently(17 Ranks), Hide 58 (15 ranks), Heal 61 (6 Ranks), Tumble 32(1 Rank).
    This is not an ideal skill layout. I like stealthing quests and am trying really hard to figure out if balance makes a difference (I don't think it does atm). UMD, Concentration, Heal, and Diplomacy are the skills more worth investing in than what I have.

    Default Gear Layout:
    Note: This gear layout needs a bit of work, but it depends on finding a few lootgen items which are still somewhat undecided and thus I haven't committed to any other gear layout yet. Bolded items are unlikely to change. Italic items have their replacement ready but changing them will unslot features I want to keep for now.
    Goggles: EE Shadowsight, (Golem's Heart)
    Head: EE White Dragon Helm, +3 Con, (Golem's Heart, Topaz of Power 250 Slotted)
    Neck: Deadly 10 Resist 10 Wondrous Craftmanship
    Trinket: Manual of Stealthy Pilfering, (Golem's Heart slotted)
    Cloak: Smoke II Greensteel HP
    Belt: Health 9 Dodge 9
    Ring 1: Epic Ring of the Stalker (Deathblock, Globe of True Imperial Blood slotted)
    Ring 2: Sage's Ring (Heal 13 Slotted)
    Gloves: Iron Mitts
    Boots: Orcish Privateer's Boots (Insightful Wisdom 2 slotted)
    Bracers: Dumathoin's Bracers (False Life 40 Slotted)
    Robe: Fully Upgraded White Dragon robes (Golem's Heart slotted)
    Quiver: EE Quiver of Poison
    Bow: Complete Thunderforged Longbow; First Degree Burns, Dragon's Edge, Mortal Fear; (Insightful Strength 2, Meteoric Star Ruby Slotted)

    Default Enhancements:
    Note that I change my enhancements a lot. Also note that I don't do well remembering to keep myself buffed or use boosts so I don't take em in these trees; There are stronger layouts than this one, but this is good enough.
    Halfling: All core; 7 pts
    Arcane Archer: Force arrows 3/3, Inferno Shot 3/3, Soul Magic, Slayer Arrow, Rune bow, Moon Bow, Morphic Arrows, 2 Points of Wisdom, Conjure Arrows, Awareness 3/3; 36 pts
    Deepwood Stalker: Sniper Shot, Stealthy 3/3, Increased Empathy 3/3, Versatile Empathy 2/2, 1 Point of Wisdom; 12 pts
    Henshin Mystic: Contemplation 3/3; 8 pts
    Shintao: Iron Hand(3ed core), 1 Point of Wisdom; 13 points
    and 3 AP that float (currently in halfling tree for sneak attack and 1 point in KotC tree for undead damage)

    EPIC DESTINY LAYOUTS
    I usually run this build in either Legendary Dreadnought or Fury of the Wild
    Fury of the Wild 1108 HP, earth stance, ship buffs
    Used for raids, some quests, and when I am running with a good blitzer. The objective here is chunking bosses quickly.
    Primal Scream 3/3, Acute Instincts 3/3, Damage Reduction 2/3, Fury Eternal, Unbridled Fury, 6 points of Constitution.
    Legendary Dreadnought 984 HP, earth stance, ship buffs
    It is all about the blitz! Since I have cleave and great cleave it takes ~2 min to change a blitz, which isn't bad for many quests, esp since you can charge on you way there or while waiting to fill.
    Extra Action Boost 3/3, Damage boost 1/3, Haste boost 3/3, Critical Damage 3/3, Advancing Blows, Devastating Critical, Pulverizer, Master's Blitz, 3 points of Strength
    Twists
    A Dance of Flowers and Rejuvenation Cocoon are (almost) always twisted.
    For my other twist slot I may twist
    Purify Weapon - More damage, bypass Good DR, make the Thunderholme bow shiny (my favorite, twist at time of post)
    Stand With Stone - More HP and PRR, used when I face-tank dracolitches (which I do on EH/EN quite a bit, and rarely on EE(more likely to kite on EE))
    Grim Precision / Piercing Clarity - For more fort bypass. Usually don't bother to switch to these when needed.
    Bane of Undeath - If I ever decide to run Divine Might and/or bother to change twists for doing Shadow Dragon raid
    Commanding Presence - Sometimes I replace aDoF with this when I twist Stand With Stone if I have really high damage people in party and want to be 100% sure that I can hold aggro. Not many people that I worry about this with tho, the damage on the build is really high.
    Unearthly Reactions - When I need that tiny bit more reflex, or want to tumble around in a cloud of blue smoke.

    Interesting numbers at 28 with ship buffs:
    Saves (Earth Stance, LD)
    Fortitude: 70
    Reflex: 65 (Improved Evasion)
    Will: 68
    Other Numbers (Earth stance, LD)
    BAB: 21/24
    Fortification: 145%
    HP: 984
    Spell Points: 907
    PRR: 54 (27.22%)
    Positive Spell Power: 326
    Ki: 62(+1)/245 upon entering a quest
    AC: 128
    Poppytop of Khyber; I have no alts. Sodapoppy, Poppydieslot, and Poppytart may never be seen in the same party as me but, I assure you, that is because of reasons other than their being alts.
    Come party with the Poppy! Join the BrattyTop flight!

  17. #17

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    I haven't tried blitz since they nerfed then semi un-nerfed it
    Main characters: Usually on Rhyes, Miniryse or Legolass
    I'm rich! filthy rich! /runs off to AH
    /cry! I'm poor! flat broke!

  18. #18
    2015 DDO Players Council
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladywolf View Post
    I haven't tried blitz since they nerfed then semi un-nerfed it
    Sadly the new blitz just doesn't work well with bows - it doesn't really give enough ranged power to outscale a well - played fury setup. I just haven't taken the time (yet) to update my build post because, well, I had thought people didn't care about it anymore.

    Poppy is in fury 100% of the time now, and I have Sodapoppy(a swash atm) for quests that I want more trash clearing power.
    Poppytop of Khyber; I have no alts. Sodapoppy, Poppydieslot, and Poppytart may never be seen in the same party as me but, I assure you, that is because of reasons other than their being alts.
    Come party with the Poppy! Join the BrattyTop flight!

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