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  1. #1
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    Default Shiradi vs Elemental Sorc

    For a long time now, I've heard all the rave about Shiradi casters. Recently I dusted my 20 sorc off and started grinding out EDs.

    I've now experimented with Energy Burst and Dragon Breath and seen CRAZY dps rolling off the screen. Dragon Breath is hitting in the 10,000 range (and without the best electric spell power gear). Energy burst hits around 4,000 usually and has a short cooldown. My other spells do some very nice damage, too.

    My question is, is the dps of a Shiradi really better than this? If the dps is not better, then what makes a shiradi better? The bottomless mana pool? Is it just for EE when things always make their reflex save and have evasion which makes the Draconic ED lose much of its power?

    I've played around a little with MM, FM, and CM with my sorc while in Shiradi. It seems to mostly just do single-target damage the best, but it's still low compared to when I throw around stuff in Draconic ED. I seem to get more dps from Draconic ED. Bear in mind, I've been experimenting mostly in EH content, too.

    Can some folks weigh in and clarify why so many people say shiradi is so good? And it'd be nice to hear why others think Draconic is better. (I've heard some people say that, too.)

    Thanks.
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  2. #2
    Community Member Cardtrick's Avatar
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    Either one is very viable.

    I'm not super experienced using either one at the high end, but my impression from what I have played, people I've talked to, and videos I've watched is this:

    Playing EN or EH, Draconic is better. More damage output lets you zerg faster, running out of SP isn't really a concern, it's fairly easy to get casting stat high enough for enemies to fail their reflex saves, it's not hard to get by as a pure sorcerer without paladin levels for saves or monk levels for evasion.

    Playing EE without the very best gear and most relevant past lives, Shiradi is better. Most relevant spells and effects are save-less and multiple procs matter more than high damage or DC, so losing sorcerer capstone and higher level spells isn't a big sacrifice; this allows one to dip into paladin and monk for survivability or favored soul for crit chance and endless SP. The saveless crowd control of Nerve Venom is really nice. A first lifer without excellent gear can roll up a 16/2/2 sorc/paladin/monk and immediately contribute in EEs.

    Playing EE at the highest levels, with careful play, all the best gear, and every past life that matters, Draconic is better again. At this point, EE is somewhat closer to EH in terms of survivability. Once you get to the point where DC is high enough that you can reliably make EE trash helpless and damage output is high enough that you can one-shot it at that point, the Shiradi advantages really don't matter as much. A very good draconic sorcerer can dominate in EE almost as much as a normal sorcerer can in the heroic levels. The barrier to entry is higher, and surviving requires more player skill than on a more tank-y multiclassed Shiradi, but the power level is very high.
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  3. #3
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    Thanks for the informative reply. It confirms my initial suspicion that Shiradi was the answer to EE's inflated hitpoints and high saves.

    I mainly play EH and occassionally jump into EE. My sorc is pure right now, so I think I'll probably just get him to cap and work on equipment for a bit. Then next life I'll do the wizard/fvs/monk 16/2/2 thing to try out Shiradi once I hit 20. Then, if I don't like it, I'll just have my 2nd wizard past life taken care of.
    Heroes and Marauders || Static Group Thursdays 8-10 ET & Sundays 7-10 ET || Clyyde (wizard/rogue), Meensc (arcane archer), Nynaave (swashbuckler), Greantun (short monk), Aeropostle (monk)
    Former heroes or marauders that we will remember fondly:
    Tagez - famous for running off in the wrong direction but always ending up with one of us unwittingly following him.
    Argonnessen: Totalle (swashbuckler warlock), Catteras (20 Warlock), Paularubia (18 paladin, 2 fighter sword and board brawler)

  4. #4
    Community Member Beethoven's Avatar
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    The short answer: no. Shiradi does not provide with better dps.

    The longer answer: Shiradi does not provide with better dps as long as the Draconic Sorcerer is a) alive and b) does not have to worry about SP overly much.

    There have been a number of people on those forums who posted actual test results and I too played Enchanter DPs builds (Enchantment based wizard using a combination of CC and AoE damage spells, Draconic Sorcerer and Shiradi) and all actual testing usually resulted in both Enchanters and Draconic pulling ahead as far as DPs output is concerned. The same holds true with CC; DC based DPs (ie: Greater Shout, Webs) is far more reliable than Nerve Venom -- despite popular (forum) opinion the successful Shiradi do not rely on Nerve Venom in EE, they rely on a combination of Fogs and Ice Storm to slow mobs down while staying at a distance.

    Shiradi still provide with viable dps, but their actual strength lies in:

    * better survivability due to high saves and Evasion: between Insightful Reflexes, Paladin saves and Epic Reflexes it is easy to hit 60+ Reflex Saves and with no autofail on a natural 1 the build is practically immune to most traps and damage dealing spells.

    * near infinite SP: by relying on (cheap) multiproc spells and SLA's and splashing for Just Rewards a Shiradi's SP pool will last a whole lot longer than those of any other caster. That is particularly useful for solo-play and/or in EE.
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  5. #5
    Community Member Portalcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beethoven View Post
    despite popular (forum) opinion the successful Shiradi do not rely on Nerve Venom in EE, they rely on a combination of Fogs and Ice Storm to slow mobs down while staying at a distance.
    This is news to me. I do not play my Shiradi caster this way nor have I ever seen a Shiradi caster played this way.

    CC as a Shiradi in my experience and assuming there isn't a toon in the party with dedicated CC, consists of killing trash quickly, nerve venom, and sometimes Otto's Irresistible Dance. When that isn't enough, you kite too.
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  6. #6
    Community Member TheGuyYouKnow's Avatar
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    as i see it, if you dont have the dcs go shiradi if your spells do hit elemental is better
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  7. #7
    Community Member pHo3nix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catteras View Post
    For a long time now, I've heard all the rave about Shiradi casters. Recently I dusted my 20 sorc off and started grinding out EDs.

    I've now experimented with Energy Burst and Dragon Breath and seen CRAZY dps rolling off the screen. Dragon Breath is hitting in the 10,000 range (and without the best electric spell power gear). Energy burst hits around 4,000 usually and has a short cooldown. My other spells do some very nice damage, too.

    My question is, is the dps of a Shiradi really better than this? If the dps is not better, then what makes a shiradi better? The bottomless mana pool? Is it just for EE when things always make their reflex save and have evasion which makes the Draconic ED lose much of its power?

    I've played around a little with MM, FM, and CM with my sorc while in Shiradi. It seems to mostly just do single-target damage the best, but it's still low compared to when I throw around stuff in Draconic ED. I seem to get more dps from Draconic ED. Bear in mind, I've been experimenting mostly in EH content, too.

    Can some folks weigh in and clarify why so many people say shiradi is so good? And it'd be nice to hear why others think Draconic is better. (I've heard some people say that, too.)

    Thanks.
    Shiradi can be more survivable cause caster levels aren't that important and don't need DC, so can spend feats, enhancements and levels on survivability. It also got almost infinite SP.

    Draconic is good if you got a maxed out sorc, but it requires lots of past lives and gear. If you got everything then it's really good, mass hold+ energy burst or dragon breath clear things well, but you first have to make your mass hold works

    All the above is for EE, if you run EH/EN then Draconic is perfectly fine and probably even better even if you aren't maxed out, cause you can gather lot of mobs and kill them with an energy burst.

    So it's really a matter of how much good gear you have, how many useful past lives you acquired/plan to acquire and what difficulty you run most, both destinies are pretty good.
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