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  1. #21
    Community Member alvarego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    Were you here before XP ransack? 9000 times Rusted blades or 7000X Impossible demands? The only reason anyone does Von3 every day is it's meta gamed to death, right now it's way worse XP/min than many faster quests. You can get old VON3 sized XP out of Into The Deep (red fens end chain quest) yet it's a little further out and people don't have it memorized... VON5 is awesome XP, there's LOTS of daily XP runs now: Wiz King, eGH, LoD chain, Saga's (when they turn them back on), even the CitW flagging quests are good stuff.

    If you're doing VON3 and logging out until tomorrow that's your own dang fool fault.
    If I recall right all that rusted blades and impossible demands grind was once you had reached max level 25 and was done to max EDs so is not the same thing, and people now complain and remember how lovely old ransack was ... BUT the old ransack did never go and you were on certain quests with -80% for life.

    About Into the Deep same XPs as VoN3, heh yeah sure, that's why there're lots and lots of LFMs for it ;-)

    All on all I don't think you get what I was trying to mean, I mean I prefer diversity to always the same quest that is what would happend if there were no ransack, don't mind VoN3 or whichever
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    DDO has no death penalty, *** is wrong with you people?
    http://ddowiki.com/page/Death_penalty

    And not only that, but every in your party gets penalized with 10% less of the base XP on completion, too.

  3. #23
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    http://ddowiki.com/page/Death_penalty

    And not only that, but every in your party gets penalized with 10% less of the base XP on completion, too.
    got that wrong

    it is not a loss of 10% base XP it is a loss of the 10% Flawless Victory bonus Base XP is unaffected.

  4. #24
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    http://ddowiki.com/page/Death_penalty

    And not only that, but every in your party gets penalized with 10% less of the base XP on completion, too.
    You dont get penalized, you lose bonus.
    Also if you remove the bonus from game because you think it is penalty, wouldnt you just lose 10% bonus xp on every quest, and not only in quest when someone dies?

  5. #25
    Community Member Xioden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    You dont get penalized, you lose bonus.
    Also if you remove the bonus from game because you think it is penalty, wouldnt you just lose 10% bonus xp on every quest, and not only in quest when someone dies?
    When you can get through a full life with few or no deaths, and by opening up your group to pugs results in you often losing said 10%, it's a penalty not a bonus.

  6. #26
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xioden View Post
    When you can get through a full life with few or no deaths, and by opening up your group to pugs results in you often losing said 10%, it's a penalty not a bonus.
    With all these bonuses if you care about that minor 10% which in most quests isnt over 1k, you are really selfish.

  7. #27
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xioden View Post
    When you can get through a full life with few or no deaths, and by opening up your group to pugs results in you often losing said 10%, it's a penalty not a bonus.
    No matter how you phrase it, its still a bonus and the real bonus in my mind is playing with other real people most of whom I enjoy playing with even if its just that one time or they or I die.

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

  8. #28
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xioden View Post
    When you can get through a full life with few or no deaths, and by opening up your group to pugs results in you often losing said 10%, it's a penalty not a bonus.
    So you would prefer it if 10% no death bonus was not in game?
    This way you would never get 10% more.

  9. #29
    neck deep member Powskier's Avatar
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    Default xps seem pretty easy to get

    i guess players are wanting to ETR in only a few days? I like to dismiss those toughts of lvling in record time;Runnin quests at zerg speed isnt alot of fun.We should be seeing alot of Slayer groups in all the cool epic wilderness',but the XP demand send players to quests straightaway..I'd say the TR system, is Ransacking the fun, out of CoolContent.
    Mercyful Fate/ King Diamond link{ http://www.kingdiamondcoven.com } /''horror and moral terror are your friends'',Col. Kurtz/King Diamond Coven , lvl 79Ghallanda /43 Sarlona

  10. #30
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    You can etr in few days.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    I tell you what is not fun. Running many epic quests (non first time) and only getting 30k xp without a pot running. Needing 6.6 million xp and spending 30 mins or so in a quest to get 30k?

    You can say that you do not need to run multiple ETR’s, but what else is there to do? TR’ing is the only real endgame.

    Sure people have quit because there is no endgame except for tr’ing, but there are many other people that have walked away because the amount of time needed for many players (not the ubers here) to tr and then getting very little gain for all the time invested.

    At this point I could care less about the xp nerf to von or the removal of sagas. Either way we need too much xp (grind) for a very little gain. This is a real problem and declining populations are the proof. This may not be the biggest cause of player loss, but it sure is not helping.
    What alternative would you suggest that doesn't just lead to players "finishing" the game and then leaving anyway?

    Maybe I'm missing something, but the way I see it the choice seems to be between some players leaving because it takes to long to finish the game or everybody leaving because they finished more quickly and have nothing left to do.

  12. #32
    Community Member Turbosilk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    I tell you what is not fun. Running many epic quests (non first time) and only getting 30k xp without a pot running. Needing 6.6 million xp and spending 30 mins or so in a quest to get 30k?
    Exp/min is all that matters. Looking at total quest exp is very shortsighted.

    And if you are spending 30 min in a quest...amazing.
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  13. #33
    Community Member Xioden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    No matter how you phrase it, its still a bonus and the real bonus in my mind is playing with other real people most of whom I enjoy playing with even if its just that one time or they or I die.
    When you're getting it 99%+ of the time on your own, for all intent and purpose, it's part of the base XP of the quest. When running with pugs doing elite BB, to say 90%+ of the time at least one person is going to do would be fair. At that point, yes, it becomes a penalty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    So you would prefer it if 10% no death bonus was not in game?
    This way you would never get 10% more.
    I'd prefer not getting penalized for preferring to group with other players.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    With all these bonuses if you care about that minor 10% which in most quests isnt over 1k, you are really selfish.
    Over the course of a couple hundred quests each life, that's a lot of experience.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulders View Post
    I know many will disagree but I reckon the falling population is being caused by ransack penalties.
    I understand the flawed thinking on Turbine's part which is behind ransack. The dev's definitely wont like us players not playing many dungeons & packs because so many are garbage, it doesn't look good at the board meetings when a team's work has added no player numbers & is widely avoided. So the lala land solution is to try to force players to play the realms which then equals kudos for dev's.
    The other flawed reason is probably that management think if we are forced to play longer & it's harder to get exp then we'll buy more tomes & ultimately subscribe to the game for more month/years than we would have. So players repeating content they like & getting fast exp is a bad thing in their thinking, in their minds it's better to have players crawling along & forced to play the whole game.

    I've two words for this dangerous kind of thinking..XBox One.

    Microsoft learned a hard lesson about who the master is in the games world..it's the customer. If you try to force players to do things they don't like they will not buy your product, end of.

    All DDO players are playing this game for fun (except for those manipulating AH prices maybe), so if Turbine make players play the garbage parts of the game then don't be shocked when they stop playing.

    I was impressed with this game when I came to it, but I quickly learned how annoying it can be. Death's are really annoying with the lack of non paying self rez, death penalties to the exp of other group members is a farce, but I came to quickly grasp that the best way to learn the game is repeat runs & for those 'challenging' dungeons you just have to put up with being a pain while you try to learn it. But now rerunning dungeons is not a viable option & groups & especially TR's know that the first run has to go well as there's no farming option to make up the losses. So players with skills are effectively being encouraged to avoid pugs, as condensing that exp is now more important than ever.
    So where does that leave the noob entering the game. They come to a game where learning dungeons is penalized, they find a game where playing in groups is essential, but there's few players willing to group, and they find a game where poorly crafted/annoying content almost has to be played in order to effectively level up.

    Noobs are the lifeblood of the game, lose them and the game dies, but Turbine haven't just nerfed the game for most noobs, they've nerfed it for everyone.

    Allow us to play what we want when we want without nerfing exp all the time & DDO might have a future, don't and the game will be continue to die a slow death.
    All your complaints about this system are imaginary and in your own head only. Getting groups was tough before the ransack system. So, there goes your theory about the ransack system being the cause of that.

    As far as having to play content you dislike, well there goes that theory too. I hate Necro 1 to 3 and I never play it - except if I can find someone who puts up an LFM for Shadow Crypt. I don't even run it on 3rd life and later TR's.

    Death is hardly annoying. I can't even qualify it as a minor inconvenience. Go play a game where you actually lose experience when you die - and not just temporarily lose it, either. As far as the loss of the 10% bonus for nobody dying during a quest, it has been more than 18 months since I have met anyone in-game who even cares if someone dies during a quest. 10% is just immaterial now. It was always a paltry amount and now with all the sources of experience that are in the game, nobody even notices the loss of that bonus.

    When it comes to farming, there are still good quests to farm. You just don't farm a quest more than 3x in one day if you're smart. Furthermore, farming is really not even needed anymore. On my TR's, I only bank levels until I have done all the quests (that I want to do) at a given level. After that, I level up. Usually by about 6th level, I am banking a full level all the way to 20. There are a few levels where I might end up taking it a rank or 2 before being hard capped for the level - and level 13 is the one that stands out the most to me but this is usually because I don't have the patience to find groups for a few of the quests available at this level. I find that if I do all the explorers for each wilderness as I level up (not including Wheloon Prison, which I simply never do, and Stormhorn Mountains on heroic) and then start getting all the rares either in Red Fens or Menechtarun, then it doesn't really matter if I skip some quests. Again, that is even true of my characters who are doing their 3rd and later lives.
    Last edited by Coyopa; 05-05-2014 at 06:02 AM.

  15. #35
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    What alternative would you suggest that doesn't just lead to players "finishing" the game and then leaving anyway?

    Maybe I'm missing something, but the way I see it the choice seems to be between some players leaving because it takes to long to finish the game or everybody leaving because they finished more quickly and have nothing left to do.
    The longest vacation I ever took from this game was right after I completed my 60th ToD on my barb and had yet to see an encrusted ring. Maybe I am different from some, but I will not quit when I have my name in the achievements forums.

    Truth be told, many people here have soloed everything and they are still here. What drives many people away (and I am not talking about the folks that want this to be candy land) is the fact that the enormous grind that Turbine calls an endgame only provides a minimal advantage.

    As you pointed out people may quit the game when they reach the pinnacle, but there are still a few vets here that really enjoy at least a few aspects of the game. Sure we lost many people when Turbine changed things so that heroic tr’s would be considered endgame, but we survived and people were constantly on the tr train.

    As we continue people are starting to see that the reward for epic completionist is completely unneeded considering that players are forced into taking comms for end rewards, forced into running high comm rate quests. So what is the answer? Make people spend on hearts and otto boxes? I’m sure that what Turbine thinks and this is why we are seeing a steady decline in population. The reward nowhere nears the investment.
    Flabby-Flaber-Flabo--Heifer-Oinks

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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    The longest vacation I ever took from this game was right after I completed my 60th ToD on my barb and had yet to see an encrusted ring. Maybe I am different from some, but I will not quit when I have my name in the achievements forums.

    Truth be told, many people here have soloed everything and they are still here. What drives many people away (and I am not talking about the folks that want this to be candy land) is the fact that the enormous grind that Turbine calls an endgame only provides a minimal advantage.

    As you pointed out people may quit the game when they reach the pinnacle, but there are still a few vets here that really enjoy at least a few aspects of the game. Sure we lost many people when Turbine changed things so that heroic tr’s would be considered endgame, but we survived and people were constantly on the tr train.

    As we continue people are starting to see that the reward for epic completionist is completely unneeded considering that players are forced into taking comms for end rewards, forced into running high comm rate quests. So what is the answer? Make people spend on hearts and otto boxes? I’m sure that what Turbine thinks and this is why we are seeing a steady decline in population. The reward nowhere nears the investment.
    From my perspective, TRs and eTRs are little more than self inflicted time sinks anyway as neither provides anything I would consider to be actually part of a build (outside of maybe the extra build points on a rather overreaching build). Just a little something extra. They are both simply something else to do to give a reason to keep playing the game. I see both token and comm farming to be the same, something to do to give me a reason to keep playing the game. Maybe I'm just so extraordinarily simple minded as to see gaining comms as a form of progress in itself.

  17. #37
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    From my perspective, TRs and eTRs are little more than self inflicted time sinks anyway as neither provides anything I would consider to be actually part of a build (outside of maybe the extra build points on a rather overreaching build). Just a little something extra. They are both simply something else to do to give a reason to keep playing the game. I see both token and comm farming to be the same, something to do to give me a reason to keep playing the game. Maybe I'm just so extraordinarily simple minded as to see gaining comms as a form of progress in itself.
    Well I prefer heroic content and I am not complaining about burnout or nothing to do. I will follow my own path of enjoyment and not follow the one Turbine has laid out. (Either spend $$$ on Ehearts due to a high comm rate needed or spend $$$ on ottos so you have to spend less time in an off destiny in quest that gives putrid xp).

    I will continue to play in a way that brings me enjoyment.

    The writing is on the wall. As more and more people leave, the more inclined Turbine will be to gouge the remaining players. Time will tell.
    Flabby-Flaber-Flabo--Heifer-Oinks

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  18. #38
    Community Member Ykt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    Truth be told, many people here have soloed everything and they are still here.
    I don't know about that. There is at least (!) a hundred active forum members.

    I've been playing for 5 years and I only solo when I have to, because there are no people to play with (slow time of day, ...).
    I'm more interested in playing with a group than playing alone, I had enough of that with singleplayer games.

  19. #39
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    You think that chain running the same dungeon over and over and over is better for the game than encouraging people to run all the content?

    Really?

  20. #40
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xioden View Post
    When you're getting it 99%+ of the time on your own, for all intent and purpose, it's part of the base XP of the quest. When running with pugs doing elite BB, to say 90%+ of the time at least one person is going to do would be fair. At that point, yes, it becomes a penalty.



    I'd prefer not getting penalized for preferring to group with other players.

    Over the course of a couple hundred quests each life, that's a lot of experience.
    Then play by yourself and no matter what you say it's a bonus! I think you might be better off with a different game like elder scrolls and I don't mean the online game! Since you don't seem to want to play with others why even play a MMO? The only reason I do is to group with others!

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

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