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  1. #141
    The Hatchery CaptainSpacePony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainSpacePony View Post
    <snip>... server to undermine your... <snip>
    and by "server" I mean "serve".

    I have had trouble reading my posts before submission and haven't been able to edit a post since the wonderful new forums went live.
    Someone got it wrong. Everyone expected the Spanish Inquisition because they were required to give 30 days notice, by law.
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  2. #142
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainSpacePony View Post
    I don't really know if you're wrong or right. I am just impressed how you were able to come up with 90%.

    Based on your in-game asking it would seem to be 100%.
    Forum views do/could support your point that it's important, but can't be used to quantify how many people it directly affects.
    I have 5 laptops that run DDO. At this time it seems to be mostly confined to 1, which would be 20%ish. But I recognize that's a very small sample size and those systems are using the same router, isp, etc.

    All in all, I am think you have good reason for your concerns, I was merely trying to point out, in a light-hearted manner, that making unsupported claims (90%, Devs Obviously don't play etc) server to undermine your creditability, rather than strengthen your otherwise rational and strong point.

    Sorry if I irritated you, I was actually trying to be helpful.
    -'nuff said
    15 people in my guild, everyone get the double login.
    I have 2 pcs, both get it.
    Saw at least 20 people who play every day that get it.
    Even in this thread majority of people get it.
    Good reasons for my concern?
    You mean that this double login came with motu and turbine think its fixed when 4th mos viewed thread in general discussion is about ddo preload which resolves that problem, and then you have malphunktion type he doesnt see it on forum.
    Last edited by Ivan_Milic; 05-03-2014 at 05:51 PM.

  3. #143

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    Bb helps you only on your first etr, after that ee xp is pretty much the same as en/eh which is stupid when comparing difficulty.
    If they separated it still would be only good on first etr, after that all diffs will give you same amount of xp unless you run eh or en first time.
    I know, that's why I said you could do a heroic TR to reset it.

    Even without first playthrough bonuses you can still get a hefty bonus to base XP.

    It wouldn't be unreasonable to say you get a 75% bonus to it. That would consist of:

    Onslaught 15%
    Persistance 10%
    Flawless Victory 10%
    Vandal 10%
    Daily Playthrough 20%
    Greater Tome of Learning 10%

    You might not have a tome of learning or you might die, but then you might also get Conquest, Ransack and Traps/Secret Door bonuses.

    Ontop of that you might get a 10% VIP bonus, 30% pot, 5% Voice and 5% guild bonus.

    That makes the base XP difference worth atleast twice as much. It's still a bit low, but they'd have to be careful if they increase it as there's still BB and first time bonuses.


    P.S. I also wanted to add that I too have to log in twice unless I use the DDO preloader. Since I started using the preloader I stopped thinking about the problem and so, didn't report it.
    Last edited by Madja; 05-03-2014 at 05:53 PM.

  4. #144
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madja View Post
    I know, that's why I said you could do a heroic TR to reset it.

    Even without first playthrough bonuses you can still get a hefty bonus to base XP.

    It wouldn't be unreasonable to say you get a 75% bonus to it. That would consist of:

    Onslaught 15%
    Persistance 10%
    Flawless Victory 10%
    Vandal 10%
    Daily Playthrough 20%
    Greater Tome of Learning 10%

    You might not have a tome of learning or you might die, but then you might also get Conquest, Ransack and Traps/Secret Door bonuses.

    Ontop of that you might get a 10% VIP bonus, 30% pot, 5% Voice and 5% guild bonus.

    That makes the base XP difference worth atleast twice as much. It's still a bit low, but they'd have to be careful if they increase it as there's still BB and first time bonuses.
    You get all those bonuses on en and eh, when the difference between en and ee is 1k, those bonuses give you what, 5k?
    Lol.

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    More XP: lol. By the time I do an EE quest, I can do 2 or even 3x EN quests. So nop, not more XP.
    Better drop rates: right. Because a 3% increase is so much more. Not noticeable. And again, by the time I do an EE quest, I can do 3x EN quests so nop, no better drop rates.
    More Favor: I can do a quest on Heroic Elite and it gives the same favor as Epic Elite. Unless the quest is only Epic, which there are really a handful of them.
    More COVs: again, by the time I finish an EE quest, I can do 3x EN quests so doesn't matter.
    People keep using #s like 3% increase which is misleading.

    The drop rate on EE is probably close to double EH and probably over triple EN from my experience. That is a huge increase in drop rate by running on a higher difficulty. If you can run on a higher difficulty there is no way you will run on a lower difficulty with such a lower drop rate.

    If there is no motivation to run EE, then how many runs of HH did you do EE vs. EH vs. EN? Why would you run for less ingredients and item drops if you can handle on a higher difficulty? If you stop running the quest because you got your items the same would be true once you got your exclusive items. Nothing would change and you would still be on the forum wanting more.

    This isn't about lack of reward for EE, it's about trying to prevent people running on lower difficulties from getting the rewards. I think it's enough that it takes them 2 or 3 times longer to get their items.... and more if you factor in chest ransack penalties. I've run HH and the new raids on all difficulties. The drop rates are noticably higher on EH and EE vs. lower difficulties.

    They should offer something more for EE, but it shouldn't be the most powerful item in the game. It should be something that is cool and coveted, but not power increasing.

    Many of the same people asking for EE-exclusive rewards are also saying the game is too easy. Why would they need a more powerful item if it's not needed. Why not just something that is unique and nice.
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  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    You get all those bonuses on en and eh, when the difference between en and ee is 1k, those bonuses give you what, 5k?
    Lol.
    More enemies on higher difficulties and people always forget to factor that in.
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  7. #147
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    More enemies on higher difficulties and people always forget to factor that in.
    O yea, 10% more xp out of 5k is 500.
    Thats sure makes a difference between en and ee.
    On en mobs have 1-2k hp, on ee 5-10k.

  8. #148

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    Quote Originally Posted by Produktion_Malphunktion View Post
    Good ideas. I'm a huge fan of out of the box items that are not just DPS. The artifact system in 'the other game' is cool. Healing item, a portable store..there is a ton of places they can go there.
    Items are interesting.

    Exclusive to EE is horrible.
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  9. #149
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    People keep using #s like 3% increase which is misleading.

    The drop rate on EE is probably close to double EH and probably over triple EN from my experience. That is a huge increase in drop rate by running on a higher difficulty. If you can run on a higher difficulty there is no way you will run on a lower difficulty with such a lower drop rate.

    If there is no motivation to run EE, then how many runs of HH did you do EE vs. EH vs. EN? Why would you run for less ingredients and item drops if you can handle on a higher difficulty? If you stop running the quest because you got your items the same would be true once you got your exclusive items. Nothing would change and you would still be on the forum wanting more.

    This isn't about lack of reward for EE, it's about trying to prevent people running on lower difficulties from getting the rewards. I think it's enough that it takes them 2 or 3 times longer to get their items.... and more if you factor in chest ransack penalties. I've run HH and the new raids on all difficulties. The drop rates are noticably higher on EH and EE vs. lower difficulties.

    They should offer something more for EE, but it shouldn't be the most powerful item in the game. It should be something that is cool and coveted, but not power increasing.

    Many of the same people asking for EE-exclusive rewards are also saying the game is too easy. Why would they need a more powerful item if it's not needed. Why not just something that is unique and nice.
    Except that in the time it takes to run EE Haunted Halls extended you can run EN 3-4 times easy without any risk involved.

    I run EE haunted halls normal version no optionals once get my CoV for the day then run EN Haunted halls extended with optionals for loot in half the time.

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    O yea, 10% more xp out of 5k is 500.
    Thats sure makes a difference between en and ee.
    On en mobs have 1-2k hp, on ee 5-10k.
    You also need to factor in Saga xp (when it's up) which is another significant boost. And then much better drop rates on top of that...

    EE takes no more than 10% more for than EH for a good group. This is not the case with the new raids, but it is with every other raid / quest in the game EE will go very fast with a good group.

    If a group takes much longer .... the other thing they are getting out of it is experience and knowledge on how to do better next time.
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  11. #151
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    People keep using #s like 3% increase which is misleading.

    The drop rate on EE is probably close to double EH and probably over triple EN from my experience. That is a huge increase in drop rate by running on a higher difficulty. If you can run on a higher difficulty there is no way you will run on a lower difficulty with such a lower drop rate.

    If there is no motivation to run EE, then how many runs of HH did you do EE vs. EH vs. EN? Why would you run for less ingredients and item drops if you can handle on a higher difficulty? If you stop running the quest because you got your items the same would be true once you got your exclusive items. Nothing would change and you would still be on the forum wanting more.
    You are missing the key point here. The key point is: TIME.

    Why would I run a quest that on EE, gives me ~20 stones but takes 30-40 minutes with deaths when I can do it on Normal, flawless for about ~7 minutes (splitting, cause on Normal you know, even a bard can solo it) for ~10 stones? In those 30 minutes I can run 4 ENs for even more ingredients and even more chances at the SAME named loot that EE can offer. I'll tell you: there is NO point.

    And about the second point: no, I will not stop running EEs once I got MY item (if the loot is tiered/unique I mean). That loot can be sold, meaning more Shards, more TPs, more Plats, it's rewarding, more whatever, . I actually have a reason to step in those quests on EE if the loot is unique. If the loot is not tiered like they are going to do with E3BC, I will NOT do EEs if not once or twice. I'll just keep farming Normal.

    About the drop rate on EE: search around. You will find some numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    This isn't about lack of reward for EE, it's about trying to prevent people running on lower difficulties from getting the rewards. I think it's enough that it takes them 2 or 3 times longer to get their items.... and more if you factor in chest ransack penalties. I've run HH and the new raids on all difficulties. The drop rates are noticably higher on EH and EE vs. lower difficulties.
    No, they are NOT noticeable higher on EE. Not with the time that it takes to do an EE run. Not with the difficulty of doing EE. I've seen more loot in my normal runs than my EEs. And this is also due to the fact that if you want loot from HH, you do it on Normal (or hard, it's just as easy as Normal anyway).

    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    They should offer something more for EE, but it shouldn't be the most powerful item in the game. It should be something that is cool and coveted, but not power increasing.
    Which is also my point. Draconic Soul Gem is a fine item that rewards running EEs. +6 tomes (yeah, right, like I believe them that they are in the loot tables) are also a nice reward for running EEs. But yes, the most powerful items also should come from the hardest difficulty of the game.

    [QUOTE=slarden;5325088]
    Many of the same people asking for EE-exclusive rewards are also saying the game is too easy. Why would they need a more powerful item if it's not needed. Why not just something that is unique and nice.

    The usual generalization. Weak.

    EDIT:

    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    You also need to factor in Saga xp (when it's up) which is another significant boost. And then much better drop rates on top of that...

    EE takes no more than 10% more for than EH for a good group. This is not the case with the new raids, but it is with every other raid / quest in the game EE will go very fast with a good group.

    If a group takes much longer .... the other thing they are getting out of it is experience and knowledge on how to do better next time.
    10% more than EH. Right. It just tells me enough about you that I should stop replying to you. You have no understanding of the game whatsoever, probably never done an EE and just one of those who want free loot (see? I can make a generalization and assumptions as well since you like those).

    Much better drop rates again. Right.
    Last edited by Wizza; 05-03-2014 at 06:17 PM.
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  12. #152
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madja View Post
    I know, that's why I said you could do a heroic TR to reset it.

    Even without first playthrough bonuses you can still get a hefty bonus to base XP.

    It wouldn't be unreasonable to say you get a 75% bonus to it. That would consist of:

    Onslaught 15%
    Persistance 10%
    Flawless Victory 10%
    Vandal 10%
    Daily Playthrough 20%
    Greater Tome of Learning 10%

    You might not have a tome of learning or you might die, but then you might also get Conquest, Ransack and Traps/Secret Door bonuses.

    Ontop of that you might get a 10% VIP bonus, 30% pot, 5% Voice and 5% guild bonus.

    That makes the base XP difference worth atleast twice as much. It's still a bit low, but they'd have to be careful if they increase it as there's still BB and first time bonuses.


    P.S. I also wanted to add that I too have to log in twice unless I use the DDO preloader. Since I started using the preloader I stopped thinking about the problem and so, didn't report it.
    XP is not the reason to run EE

  13. #153
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    You also need to factor in Saga xp (when it's up) which is another significant boost. And then much better drop rates on top of that...

    EE takes no more than 10% more for than EH for a good group. This is not the case with the new raids, but it is with every other raid / quest in the game EE will go very fast with a good group.

    If a group takes much longer .... the other thing they are getting out of it is experience and knowledge on how to do better next time.
    EE doesnt have better drop rates.
    Im discussing base xp for ee quest, not saga xp.
    Base xp difference between ee and en is 5k max, if you dont think that is stupid then you should work for turbine.

  14. #154
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    On ee mobs have 200% more hp, hit 4 times more than on eh, but the xp is only 5k more.
    How can that make any sense?

  15. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    You are missing the key point here. The key point is: TIME.
    There is a thing called chest ransack that prevents you from farming EN this way. In a one-week period you get 8 chests. You can't get 30 EN chests to make up for not running 8 EE because you are done after 8 quests regardless of the difficulty you run on . So yes TIME as you stated is the issue. It is still going to take you much longer to get your item on EN vs. EE because of chest ransack.

    You still didn't answer the question. How many times did you run EE vs. EH vs. EN for Haunted Halls? Were you mainly running EN as your argument suggests?
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  16. #156

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxarhamar View Post
    XP is not the reason to run EE
    For me, it is one of the reasons. I am, however, aware that for most players it isn't and people have been saying that XP isn't really the problem when doing an eTR.

    My post was simply part of a conversation with Ivan_Milic, that started with him explaining how there isn't much difference in base XP on the various difficulties.

  17. #157
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madja View Post
    For me, it is one of the reasons. I am, however, aware that for most players it isn't and people have been saying that XP isn't really the problem when doing an eTR.

    My post was simply part of a conversation with Ivan_Milic, that started with him explaining how there isn't much difference in base XP on the various difficulties.
    You are missing the key point as well. By the time you do 1x EE, you can do 3x EN quests for far more XP. So nop, EE does not offer more XP.

    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    There is a thing called chest ransack that prevents you from farming EN this way. In a one-week period you get 8 chests. You can't get 30 EN chests to make up for not running 8 EE because you are done after 8 quests regardless of the difficulty you run on . So yes TIME as you stated is the issue. It is still going to take you much longer to get your item on EN vs. EE because of chest ransack.

    You still didn't answer the question. How many times did you run EE vs. EH vs. EN for Haunted Halls? Were you mainly running EN as your argument suggests?
    So you are telling me that you'd rather do a quest 8 times on EE, waiting for some kind of group, with a chance to wipe and use resources for a total of 30-40min * 8 = 240-320 minutes = 4-6 hours, rather then soloing or duoing it in 30-40 minutes tops? Oh and I'm talking about just the main quest here . You wanna factor in the optionals? Good luck doing Miior on EE with a group of pugs or any toon not prepared for the fight. Let's not forget about the Dragon, with tons of HP and yadda yadda. The time goes up by a lot then. Your point doesn't stand.

    And we are talking about HH. Wanna start talking about the raids with absolutely no reason to run EE? (because I still don't believe there are tomes in there, just to make it clear again). Good luck doing Deathwyrm or Fire raid on EE just to be rewarded with nothing. And if everything goes well enough (and this is with a group of close elite friends), the time on EE will be more than 1h. On normal? 20 minutes MAX with a PUG. Try EE with a PUG and let me know how it goes by the way.

    Oh and yes. I farmed HH on Normal. Just today I did one normal and a friend looted a Manual. And I also looted more items on Normal than on Elite (well of course, I rarely do it on elite. Usually just to help a friend get the favors and the seldom time a friend wants to do it). And all the pugs are either Normal or Hard. So yup, still no reason to run EE, sorry.
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  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    EE doesnt have better drop rates.
    Im discussing base xp for ee quest, not saga xp.
    Base xp difference between ee and en is 5k max, if you dont think that is stupid then you should work for turbine.
    I wouldn't be opposed to EE base xp going up - I honestly think it is a better approach than BB. I just don't see EE completion times taking that much more than EH when I am in a good full group. I am just saying XP isn't much more and time spent isn't much more either. On top of that drop rates are much better on EE. I would love for Turbine to share some data on EE drop rates vs. EH and EN.

    We just did 3 man EE VON6 tonight - and nobody really needs anything from there. We did it for fun and we could have filled a party but thought it would be fun. We ran 2 man EE Zawabi's Revenge and again we could have filled the party but thought it would be more fun with just 2. I've run many severely short-man FOT for fun. We haven't done the new raids this way but I am sure we will in time.
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  19. #159
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    I wouldn't be opposed to EE base xp going up - I honestly think it is a better approach than BB. I just don't see EE completion times taking that much more than EH when I am in a good full group. I am just saying XP isn't much more and time spent isn't much more either. On top of that drop rates are much better on EE. I would love for Turbine to share some data on EE drop rates vs. EH and EN.

    We just did 3 man EE VON6 tonight - and nobody really needs anything from there. We did it for fun and we could have filled a party but thought it would be fun. We ran 2 man EE Zawabi's Revenge and again we could have filled the party but thought it would be more fun with just 2. I've run many severely short-man FOT for fun. We haven't done the new raids this way but I am sure we will in time.
    Turbine could write their drop rate, but it wouldnt be true if they wrote ee has higher drop rate because unlike them I actually play the game, and many other people agree with me.

  20. #160

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