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  1. #1
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    Default Kensai Weapon Specialization Enhancement Tier IV Requires Level 8?

    Am I missing something here? - this seems to be a bit of a steep prerequisite requirement as compared across the other enhancement trees where level restriction is not present (other than 1-5)..Also, the Tier 5 requirement right above it (Keen Edge) only requires Lvl 5 but cannot be selected unless the Tier 4 requirements are fulfilled.
    Last edited by digitaljc; 04-27-2014 at 04:30 PM.

  2. #2
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Thats the beauty of turbine logic.

  3. #3
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Like any of the Tier 5 enhancements 5 class lvls are required but, Kensei is different it requires 3 perquisite feats that require fighter level 8 to attain this is WAI

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    Community Member haulindonkey's Avatar
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    Default Wai

    Has always been this way, always will be.... Unless they nerf it and make you take even more fighter levels.... Personally I wouldn't ask for anything else on this one - don't want to attract devs attention. *looks nervously over shoulder*
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  5. #5
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, this is not the only example of a hidden "gotcha" in the U19 Enhancement trees; e.g., pallies can take Extra Turn Undead and Divine Might from KotC before they get the Turn Undead feat which actually makes them usable. This is why you always need to plan your build in advance.
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  6. #6
    Community Member Rykka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by digitaljc View Post
    Am I missing something here? - this seems to be a bit of a steep prerequisite requirement as compared across the other enhancement trees where level restriction is not present (other than 1-5)..Also, the Tier 5 requirement right above it (Keen Edge) only requires Lvl 5 but cannot be selected unless the Tier 4 requirements are fulfilled.
    What you are missing (probably) is Monk. Doesn't seem steep at all once you slip into your underoos.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Unfortunately, this is not the only example of a hidden "gotcha" in the U19 Enhancement trees; e.g., pallies can take Extra Turn Undead and Divine Might from KotC before they get the Turn Undead feat which actually makes them usable. This is why you always need to plan your build in advance.
    My favorites are in the defender trees where you can get improvements at class levels 1-5 for the level 6 core stance.

  8. #8
    The Hatchery Scraap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    My favorites are in the defender trees where you can get improvements at class levels 1-5 for the level 6 core stance.
    Paly in particular is full of little minefields there. Almost like they'd originally intended those to be 2/4/6/8/10s

  9. #9
    The Hatchery Nédime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Unfortunately, this is not the only example of a hidden "gotcha" in the U19 Enhancement trees; e.g., pallies can take Extra Turn Undead and Divine Might from KotC before they get the Turn Undead feat which actually makes them usable. This is why you always need to plan your build in advance.
    Absolutely
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  10. #10
    Community Member Tinco's Avatar
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    It's basically a necessary side-effect of the enhancement-tree's low tier prerequisite. If you'd fix that, especially for the defender trees, they would be (too) crowded in tier 4-5. It's not a particularly nice solution and having that low class level prereqs is an entirely different issue up to debate elsewhere, but I can kinda understand the 'why'.
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  11. #11
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    In new enhancements UI is more important than functionality.
    enh pass was a downgrade (not a nerf, just a downgrade of system).

    BTW, making kensei t5 lvl5 req without feat would be a lot of ftr5/monk2-3/whatever12-13 or ftr5/monk6/whatever9.

    Now its ftr8/monk6/whatever6.
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  12. #12
    The Hatchery Nibor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by digitaljc View Post
    Am I missing something here? - this seems to be a bit of a steep prerequisite requirement as compared across the other enhancement trees where level restriction is not present (other than 1-5)..Also, the Tier 5 requirement right above it (Keen Edge) only requires Lvl 5 but cannot be selected unless the Tier 4 requirements are fulfilled.
    They wrote the Fighter lvl 8 restriction into the enhancement because it requires the Greater Weapon Focus feat (and basically this was required for Kensei back before the enhancement changes, Kensei have always had this absurd pile of crappy feat requirements) and the Greater Weapon Focus feat requires Fighter lvl 8. Since people were confused by that, they just added the Fighter Lvl 8 right into the enhancement so it was easier to see right on the enhancement screen.

    Keen Edge requires fighter lvl 5, but character lvl 12. It's possible that if it's annoying enough they could add the Fighter lvl 8 as a pre-req to Keen Edge and One With The Blade explicitly, but I really don't see that as very important since everything you need is at least all visible on the same enhancement page.

  13. #13
    Community Member Kalimah's Avatar
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    They didnt want splashes to be able to center weapons. You have to invest at least 8 lvls to be centered (well 9 with the monk lvl required..and 10 since you'll at least have 2 lvls of monk for evasion).

    This is why i dont have a gripe with kensai centered monks. You have to dedicate half of your lvls to do it..that is much more than a "splash". Plus you are restricted on what types of weapons you can use. Folks make it out to be a lot better than it is and attempt to downplay all the restrictions surrounding the process.
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  14. #14
    Community Member Kalimah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    In new enhancements UI is more important than functionality.
    enh pass was a downgrade (not a nerf, just a downgrade of system).

    BTW, making kensei t5 lvl5 req without feat would be a lot of ftr5/monk2-3/whatever12-13 or ftr5/monk6/whatever9.

    Now its ftr8/monk6/whatever6.
    I have been trying a lot of combos to see what performs best (while stacking past lives). I like the 12/6/2 split (fighter/paly/monk - power surge fighter). I also like the 12/4/4 (fighter/paly/monk - surge w/out twisting for DM). I like the 12/8/2 split (monk/fighter/paly- gets imp evasion) and this life im trying out 10/8/2 (paly/fighter/monk - mostly for stance and Paly PL but we'll see how it goes).

    I like the monk heavy split on everything but EE. I like the 6 lvls of paly on EE so far.

    Honestly...much like everything else it comes to your preferences and how you want to achieve x goals for the build.
    Last edited by Kalimah; 04-28-2014 at 03:55 PM.
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  15. #15
    Community Member Tinco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalimah View Post
    This is why i dont have a gripe with kensai centered monks. You have to dedicate half of your lvls to do it..that is much more than a "splash".
    Well, the monk is the splash and the fighter the core. Being able to get basically all relevant stuff out of monk for 6 levels (All stances, Evasion, all Bonus feats, all enhancements, most crucial cores) is the culprit and focal point of so many balance discussions. Fighter doesn't offer much after level 12 anyway - but until then, it's arguably still the best build core for a STR-based Melee.
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  16. #16
    Community Member Ausdoerrt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinco View Post
    Fighter doesn't offer much after level 12 anyway - but until then, it's arguably still the best build core for a STR-based Melee.
    Kind of disagree, I think fighter is one of the best-balanced classes overall. Free feats are a big part of it all, and you keep getting em every 2 levels regardless of how many levels you decide to take
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausdoerrt View Post
    Kind of disagree, I think fighter is one of the best-balanced classes overall. Free feats are a big part of it all, and you keep getting em every 2 levels regardless of how many levels you decide to take
    Everyone else agrees with him

  18. #18
    Community Member Kalimah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinco View Post
    Well, the monk is the splash and the fighter the core. Being able to get basically all relevant stuff out of monk for 6 levels (All stances, Evasion, all Bonus feats, all enhancements, most crucial cores) is the culprit and focal point of so many balance discussions. Fighter doesn't offer much after level 12 anyway - but until then, it's arguably still the best build core for a STR-based Melee.
    Yep no doubt there. But at the same time, if you HAVE to take 8 lvls of fighter to be a centered Monk..and you are going to take at least 2 more lvls of monk (and usually more) then it is quite an investment as your monk/fighter kensai takes a minimum of 12 lvls (and more likely 16 levels). Plus you are limiting yourself to never wearing armor, or a shield, and that you have to use a specific weapon type.

    I enjoy the concept but argue that with all the investment required its not out of line. You are a very narrow specialist (a monk who is a fighter). I think the biggest gripe folks have is the stances being feats that you can take. But hey...its a FEAT that you can take. Why is that horrible? Its not like you just get free access to grandmaster stance with lvl 2 monk. That would require 3 feats for grandmaster.

    Again it all is quite an investment. I understand folks gripe but when you are a specialist then you should be good at what you specialize in.
    Last edited by Kalimah; 04-28-2014 at 04:01 PM.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalimah View Post
    Yep no doubt there. But at the same time, if you HAVE to take 8 lvls of fighter to be a centered Monk..and you are going to take at least 2 more (and usually more) then it is quite an investment. Plus you are limiting yourself to never wearing armor, or a shield, and that you have to use a specific weapon type.

    I enjoy the concept but argue that with all the investment required its not out of line. You are a very narrow specialist (a monk who is a fighter). I think the biggest gripe folks have is the stances being feats that you can take. But hey...its a FEAT that you can take. Why is that horrible? Its not like you just get free access to grandmaster stance with lvl 2 monk. That would require 3 feats for grandmaster.

    Again it all is quite an investment.
    I think more would agree if armor and shields weren't basically just flavor choices and if the weapon limitation meant more.

  20. #20
    2015 DDO Players Council Seikojin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalimah View Post
    Yep no doubt there. But at the same time, if you HAVE to take 8 lvls of fighter to be a centered Monk..and you are going to take at least 2 more lvls of monk (and usually more) then it is quite an investment as your monk/fighter kensai takes a minimum of 12 lvls (and more likely 16 levels). Plus you are limiting yourself to never wearing armor, or a shield, and that you have to use a specific weapon type.

    I enjoy the concept but argue that with all the investment required its not out of line. You are a very narrow specialist (a monk who is a fighter). I think the biggest gripe folks have is the stances being feats that you can take. But hey...its a FEAT that you can take. Why is that horrible? Its not like you just get free access to grandmaster stance with lvl 2 monk. That would require 3 feats for grandmaster.

    Again it all is quite an investment. I understand folks gripe but when you are a specialist then you should be good at what you specialize in.
    8/2 fighter/monks are all the rage.

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