Page 13 of 24 FirstFirst ... 39101112131415161723 ... LastLast
Results 241 to 260 of 465

Thread: Swashbuckler

  1. #241
    Community Member JohnWarlock's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Honduras
    Posts
    242

    Default

    Looking at the prestige, I can understand why some people are disappointed in how it's being handled.

    I'll start with the Core Abilities: Spell Power is inherently added whether the character is swashbuckling or not,

    Level 1: Swift Strikes: 1% Dodge, is pretty much useless at that level, and unless wearing robes/outfits it will probably end up being useless as well without it being %1 Dodge and Cap.
    Shield Proficiency: Buckler

    Level 3: Swashbuckling: It's nice that you guys made it a stance, however does it work with other stances? Defensive Stance, etc? Weapon Finesse
    Also, since there are no cutlass in the game, can we substitute it for scimitars?
    dagger, handaxe, throwing dagger and short sword: +2 threat range
    Light Mace, Sickle, Dart, Throwing Axe, Throwing Hammer: +2 Threat Range, +1 Multiplier
    lightpick: +1 threat range
    kukri, rapier: +1 multiplier

    I did take out shuriken, that's what Drow are for.

    Level 6: +5 Sonic Spell Power

    Level 12: +5 Sonic Spell Power

    Level 18: +10 Sonic Spell Power

    Capstone: +10 Sonic Spell Power


    TIER 1:

    Blow by Blow: Don't make the cool down too long.

    TIER 2:

    Aqua Vitae: Is pretty much a joke with Self healing characters.

    TIER 3:

    Swashbuckling Style: Should have something for two handed fighting as well.

    TIER 4:

    Swashbuckling Style II: Slap in the face stun might last 2-3 seconds instead since it has a save.

    TIER 5:

    Thread the Needle: Is kinda of a joke, since it only works while in Precision Stance


    Those are some suggested changes, but still the prestige seems a little weak even after those changes.

  2. #242
    2016 DDO Players Council RD2play's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Amsterdam
    Posts
    809

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Concerning the Single Weapon Fighting feats: Our current design for these does not require an empty off-hand, just that you have a one-handed weapon in your main hand and don't have a weapon in your off-hand. Shields would conceivably be allowed, for instance.

    This is definitely subject to change, but important to know when considering balance between abilities.
    make it bucklers (and orbs) only please !! and you have a win !

  3. #243
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    10,783

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by era42 View Post
    I just have to comment on this. 1% dodge is utterly useless for a level 1 Bard on Korthos. Utterly.

    I would not be surprised if you did full korthos clear without a single hit evaded by the 1% dodge. Even something as useless as DR 1/slashing would be more useful for the level 1 bard.

    Any dodge is nice for the later levels with higher damage hits, but early on, not so much.
    not at all. I have a 1% dodge item that I use for Korthos and see plenty of dodge misses. 1% dodge for level 1 just means you don't need to wear an item.
    Gary Gygax quotes

    The essence of a role-playing game is that it is a group, cooperative experience.

    There is no winning or losing, but rather the value is in the experience of imagining yourself as a character in whatever genre you are involved in, whether its a fantasy game, the Wild West, secret agents or whatever else. You get to sort of vicariously experience those things.

    Role-playing isn't storytelling. If the dungeon master is directing it, its not a game.

    When AI approximates Machine Intelligence, than many online and computer run RPGs will move toward actual RPG activity. Nonetheless, that will not replace the experience of "being there" anymore than seeing a theatrical motion picture can replace the stage play.

    The secret we should never let the game masters know is that they don't need any rules.

  4. #244
    Community Member Thar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,341

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Concerning the Single Weapon Fighting feats: Our current design for these does not require an empty off-hand, just that you have a one-handed weapon in your main hand and don't have a weapon in your off-hand. Shields would conceivably be allowed, for instance.

    This is definitely subject to change, but important to know when considering balance between abilities.
    A towershield using swashbuckling bard just doesn't sound right. i'd restict to buckler/light and give them a bonus to shield ac as compensation.

    and then put some good bucklers/light shields in game...
    Proud member of Caffeine - we aint stragicially savy, but we get &@#$% done.

    Kilthar-Thar-Delkanthalus-Carissa-Mirasina-Ktara-Imara-Thistle-Klunk-Robothar-Minithar-Tharissa-Miriella

  5. #245
    Hero Silken-Akira's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Duffel, Belgium
    Posts
    312

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnWarlock View Post

    TIER 5:

    Thread the Needle: Is kinda of a joke, since it only works while in Precision Stance

    I still think this and most of the tree all depends on how the new SWF feats will look like. If they add also some things that is linked to Precision like with Pa and OC then it might finally give some interesting choices for builds.


    @Flavilandile: On instinct I agree. the tree feels very rogueish indeed and will be a perfect addition there. But on the other hand bards do need something that makes them more interesting that others don't have. If this gets fleshed out in a good way than it would bring them some of that love they need hopefully.

  6. #246
    2016 DDO Players Council BananaHat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    559

    Default

    You are missing a huge opportunity to upgrade bard songs some more, which have become less relevant when you can get equal or greater bonuses to attack and damage from items now.

    Scoundrel's song: Adds 1d4/2d4/3d4 sneak attack damage to your inspire courage.

    Swashbuckler's slide: Adds 1/2/3% morale dodge bonus to your inspire greatness and 1/2/3% morale bonus to dodge cap to your inspire heroics.

    Drunken sing-along: Your fascinate effect causes a mild stupor, similar to being drunk. Foes affected by your fascinate take a -1/-2/-3 penalty to saves/attacks/skills for 1 minute (stacks 3 times because you can always drink more! Bosses only take a -1 penalty from the third tier, still stacks 3 times). While affected, they also have a small chance to dance for 3 seconds or be knocked down upon being hit (1/2/3% for each, separate 10 second cooldown timers to prevent spam control effects, bosses are immune).

    Scoundrel's style: Your inspire competence grants an additional +2/+4/+6 bonus to balance, tumble, jump, bluff, diplomacy, and intimidate and +1/+2/+3 scoundrel bonus to reflex saves. You also gain these bonuses when you use inspire competence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin
    I've never seen someone at a tabletop game say "I jump up on the wall until I get stuck in a spot where I can hit the giant but he can't hit me back for no apparent reason."

  7. #247
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,072

    Default

    Would like to see any weapon currently attached (as in "weapon attachment") added alongside finesse/thrown weapons as qualifiers for swashbuckling.

    Would like to see more viable throwing options come out of this for non-shuriken users. Doesn't sound like it's there yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    What your [dodge, concealment, incorporeal] calc shows is AT LEVEL miss chance. The problem with this is on the highest difficulty setting, where these defenses are needed the most, we fight mobs which have hilariously high CRs, and as a result of that players do not experience that 71% miss chance due to the way this scales.

  8. #248
    Hero Silken-Akira's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Duffel, Belgium
    Posts
    312

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaHat View Post
    You are missing a huge opportunity to upgrade bard songs some more, which have become less relevant when you can get equal or greater bonuses to attack and damage from items now.

    Scoundrel's song: Adds 1d4/2d4/3d4 sneak attack damage to your inspire courage.

    Swashbuckler's slide: Adds 1/2/3% morale dodge bonus to your inspire greatness and 1/2/3% morale bonus to dodge cap to your inspire heroics.

    Drunken sing-along: Your fascinate effect causes a mild stupor, similar to being drunk. Foes affected by your fascinate take a -1/-2/-3 penalty to saves/attacks/skills for 1 minute (stacks 3 times because you can always drink more! Bosses only take a -1 penalty from the third tier, still stacks 3 times). While affected, they also have a small chance to dance for 3 seconds or be knocked down upon being hit (1/2/3% for each, separate 10 second cooldown timers to prevent spam control effects, bosses are immune).

    Scoundrel's style: Your inspire competence grants an additional +2/+4/+6 bonus to balance, tumble, jump, bluff, diplomacy, and intimidate and +1/+2/+3 scoundrel bonus to reflex saves. You also gain these bonuses when you use inspire competence.
    I would rather say add some specific songs. A swashbuckler does have more the I am the man shine thing on him. And so is more the bard type that only thinks about his own skin. so songs/tricks/actions that represent this would fall better in his tree (in my opinion off course, thread clearly shows that there is a lot of different opinions about what image the swashbuckler brings up in our minds)

  9. #249
    The Hatchery Mryal's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    314

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dydzio0614 View Post
    Last core ability additional effects:
    You receive Dodge feat for free.
    Toggle ability: If in swashbuckler stance you deal piercing/slashing bludgeoning damage on each hit it is converted to sonic damage and is affected by your sonic spell power.
    +0.5[W] When using a Rapier or Dagger in your Main Hand.
    THIS.This is the best suggestion in this whole discussion by far.Put the evasion down to 12 and add this as capstone.This trully looks like a capstone, defines a whole new build just for staying pure 20.The bard has always had sonic spellpower and no way to effectively use it, and mediocre melee skills.This adds both together, wich is, like i had suggested earlier too, the only way to actualy bring a bard dps to an acceptable level.
    Give every person a gun and the richest man is the one that sells crutches

  10. #250
    Community Member HuneyMunster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    300

    Default

    How about giving Swashbuckler Whirlwind Attack as a free feat (and at same time fix the issues with it for weapon attacks).

    Another thing that would be nice to add a robe attack that either trips the target/s similar to Drider Web Line Trip or Entangles the target/s.

  11. #251
    Community Member Kayla93's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Poland
    Posts
    950

    Default

    I dont understand the complaints really. I mean - yeah having to have swashbuckler in off hand is kinda not so fun BUT:
    - you get evasion
    - you get Precision with PA benefits
    - you get lots of dodge
    - you get crit multiplayer and crit threat range
    - you get faster running

    Shame you dont get DEX to dmg and let's say : a lot faster hitting with that 1 weapon - that would be cool.
    I think it's missing something - becuase bards are really very weak right now - BUT for me its a lot better than Spellsinger and Warchanter.
    It misses some dps or free feats - because bards lack those two.



    Thread the Needle: While Swashbuckling, +5 Damage while the Precision feat is active.

    I wonder if it works with thrown weapons. If yes then this bard would be fun thrower build. The only problem would be - it doesnt have 10k stars
    Last edited by Kayla93; 04-25-2014 at 08:42 AM.

  12. #252
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    973

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fmalfeas View Post
    Whatever you do, devs, please don't cave to anyone demanding that swashbuckling support big heavy blades. That's not in the theme of the prestige. And dwarven axes, longswords (+ broadswords), bastard swords, warhammers, battle axes, etc, just don't fit. That's more of a Kensei thing, with whatever the new 1h-Fighting feat(s) will be. I suppose the runearm thing fits though, if you think of it as an analog to a dueling pistol or a naval pistol/handcannon. That fits the swashbuckler theme.
    Well, I suppose it would be thematically appropriate to allow anything with dexterity to attack or damage rolls and one weapon. EVEN IF that would then allow an elven falchion swashbuckler, or even quarterstaff rogue/bard builds.

    Seeing more dex/falchion builds couldn't be all bad... and ranger-3 swashbucklers shouldn't become too common anyway with the requirement to NOT be TWF.
    No longer completely f2p as of November 2014. Father of 3 more DDO players so far (I do have more children than that).
    Away from the game most of 2015.

  13. #253
    Community Member memloch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Niagara Falls, Canada
    Posts
    253

    Default Change the other trees

    I do play a bard and I love the class. If you are looking at making changes to the other trees I would suggest:

    Spell singer

    Remove Flicker. I have found this ability to be completely useless. I would suggest a sonic SLA that is either a dot or AOE. Or perhaps something in the necro area to compliment Wail of the Banshee at cap.

    For Warchanter

    Remove the whole gathering cold thing. In its place add some sla's. Perhaps jump or elemental resistance.

    For the Swashbuckler tree I am excited. I would agree with most that there needs to be more power added. I am also hoping that there will be some epic bucklers in the new 3BC area
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Sarlona Server - Blime | Darkgeddy | Youburn | Northernboy | Lakeside | Toasthead

    Leader of The Wulfepack - "If you call one wolf, you invite the Pack"
    Visit http://thewulfepack.shivtr.com/

  14. #254
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    695

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mryal View Post
    THIS.This is the best suggestion in this whole discussion by far.Put the evasion down to 12 and add this as capstone.This trully looks like a capstone, defines a whole new build just for staying pure 20.The bard has always had sonic spellpower and no way to effectively use it, and mediocre melee skills.This adds both together, which is, like i had suggested earlier too, the only way to actualy bring a bard dps to an acceptable level.
    Let's not limit this to just rapiers and daggers. Let's keep thrown weapons here as well.

    To me this looks pretty cool for a thrower build. I'm running a drow monk shuricannon and I can see some nice additions to the build from this or even another thrower style build that could come from it.

    As for it's original intent of S&B? Meh. When I think sword and board fighting I think fighters loaded down with armor being a wall of steel. I get what you're going for. Dread Pirate Roberts meets Errol Flynn. You ever see one of them with a shield? Ditch any bonus for having something in your offhand and beef up keeping that hand free. That hand is used for balance.

    Maybe a skill that freezes the opponent in fear for your skill with a blade (Flourishing Fear?). Make it like the assassinate enhancement in that it is dc based and a frozen mob is 100% susceptible to sneak attacks for 10 seconds or something.

    Maybe a skill like abundant step or fvs wings. Pirates are somehow always finding rope swings or candelabras to swing across a room.

    I say more swash and less buckle. Bucklers are for cannon fodder on the upper decks of the pirate ship that are the first to be cut down. The hero never wears them.

  15. #255
    Community Member RTN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Xoriat
    Posts
    1,216

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Concerning the Single Weapon Fighting feats: Our current design for these does not require an empty off-hand, just that you have a one-handed weapon in your main hand and don't have a weapon in your off-hand. Shields would conceivably be allowed, for instance.

    This is definitely subject to change, but important to know when considering balance between abilities.
    If you allow shields, it should be restricted to buckler only.

  16. #256
    Hero nibel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    3,710

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RumbIe View Post
    To me this looks pretty cool for a thrower build. I'm running a drow monk shuricannon and I can see some nice additions to the build from this or even another thrower style build that could come from it.
    I would love to know how you intend to splash bard in a monk build.

    The "throwing" part of this prestige don't need to be as powerful as shuricannons, but must be aware that they CAN'T splash monk for shuriken goodness. Heck, shuriken is the ONLY throwing weapon that is not improved by Swashbuckling stance.
    Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist (12/14) [<o>]
    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma


    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Kensai, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  17. #257

    Default

    Some initial Feedback:

    1. I see no real reason to bother with the Capstone, I'm better off Multi-classing for Evasion.
    The major reason for this is that although Bards come with innate High Reflex, they don't particularly specialise in Dexterity and have no obvious Reflex save improvements. Required Reflex save numbers in Epics and EEs in particular are atrocious (70+ ?), meaning unless you roll a Dex Specialist Elf Swashbuckler with Weapon Finesse and Elven Grace your gonna to make the capstone not worth the effort of obtaining.

    Suggestion:
    Add Dex to Damage as an ability in the tree, requiring you to take Weapon Finesse as a Feat.
    Add +1 Reflex Save as a passive ability to all of the Core Abilities.
    Add a further ability allowing you to obtain +1/+2/+3 Reflex Saves as low hanging fruit, or roll it into 'On Your Toes'.

    Alternative Solution:
    Swashbuckling increases the range at which a Reflex Save is automatically passed. Each Swashbuckler Core Ability increases the range by +1, thus granting a an automatic Reflex Save pass on a 15-20 (30%) and the Evasion Feat being worthwhile as a Capstone.


    2. There's not enough bonus Damage and Doublestrike to warrant going for Swashbuckling over a THF/TWF Warchanter.
    THF and TWF outstrip Swashbuckling significantly, as you cannot compare this form of fighting to either TWF 80% Offhand attacks or even GTHF Glancing Blows. Assuming your in Precision feat, I see 12% Doublestrike and +15 Damage at Character Level 30. That's not even close to a SnB build with full GTHF, Glancing Blows, Power Attack and the circa 50% Doublestrike these builds can currently obtain.

    To get close, you would need to make your 1-Handed chain of Feats grant atleast +6% Doublestrike per feat. Yes, that's right, reflect what Natural Fighting does. Even then, your only upto 30% Doublestrike, allowing you through gear and Epic destinies to hit the same 50%ish Doublestrike mark that SnB gets too. But then SnB gets Glancing Blows.

    Suggestion:
    Add the 1-Handed chain of feats, each granting:
    - 8% Doublestrike / 3% Dodge if fighting open offhanded
    - 6% Doublestrike / 2% Dodge if fighting with a Buckler/Orb/RuneArm
    - 4% Doublestrike / 1% Dodge if fighting with a Shield larger than a Buckler

    A little warning here though: With these feats, your making this tree a 5-feat investment (Weapon Finesse, Precision, 3x 1HF Feats), but also proxy-nerfing it straight out the box as the Bard will have a hard time picking up PA & Cleaves to gain Overwhelming Critical and will generally not be in PA mode for Legendary Drednought abilties.



    3. Add more Damage
    Even with the Doublestrike/1HF feat comments above, it needs more Damage. The one thing I would like to see is basically a stacking Sonic DoT applied on Melee/Thrown attacks while Swashbuckling:

    Suggestion:
    Tier 5 ability - Harmony of Style - 2AP
    Once every 6s, your melee or thrown weapon attacks applies a damage effect to the target of your Attacks.
    - Damage effect lasts 10s, with a 'tick' of damage happening every 2 seconds
    - Inflicts 1D6 Sonic Damage +1 per Bard Level, subject to Sonic Spellpower and Sonic Crit chance.
    - The effect can stack upto three times per mob damaged

    This would allow a Bard to gain some damage momentum while dealing with a single particularly large sackful of HP Mob.



    4. I hope your doing something with the 1-Handed Fighting Animation
    Watching a bunch of Bard's swashbuckling there way through Thunderholme with a Light Hammer in hand is going to be highly amusing to watch. The animation works very well for a SnB character, but it's not so great without a Shield

    Hope that Helps!
    Quote Originally Posted by twinstronglord View Post
    Up to this point we've all been beating around the bush. Lolth has a very small box in which you can hit her.

  18. #258
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    229

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cru121 View Post

    First core is weak, particularly in korthos. suggestion: add charisma to AC. There, useful in korthos. Cap by bard levels to prevent dipping.

    I like this idea... Charisma bonus to AC that is.
    Khyber:
    Lunality, Sorcality, Tunality, Axation, Causation, Shurality, Desparality, Stingality and a few more...
    Behind every good melee there stands a row of 5 monkchers making the melee feel better.

  19. #259
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    68

    Default

    Strike A (vocal) Chord passive: How about giving Bard the ability to inflict spell casting (both arcane and divine) failures on melee hits or silent ground on some sort of toggle song stance? A Bard's voice/pitch should be loud/sharp enough to disrupt enemy spell casting that has Verbal component.
    Last edited by Free2Pay; 04-25-2014 at 11:07 AM.

  20. #260
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    616

    Default Did you not read what the def mentioned then?

    Quote Originally Posted by Systern View Post
    The major difference is that fighter's aren't Bards. Turbine fears bards. Hates them. Every class* gets enhancements that are typed uniquely to enhancement trees. Bards get insight bonuses to dex cap. Morale bonuses to songs (the same as equipment for years), Rage bonuses that don't stack with barbarian rage. The fact they they specifically labelled this a "defensive stance" makes me think they're going to group it with Resilience, Combat Expertise, and Defensive Fighting.




    *Except Pallies. They hate pallies too. Sacred bonuses.
    Sure, right. But when its explicitly stated that Turbine want this "swashbuckler stance" to be able to work with something like precision, (Steelstar posts), why doubt that is the intention.

    Sure, a lot can go wrong with implementing (and that is what the first poster asking about these mentioned) is they mess up and either it doesn't work, or suddenly all sorts of stances can be used simultaneously. But as you are not able to test THIS stance yet, and Turbine wants to make it work a little bit differently, why would you mention you tested this and it does NOT work at all?

Page 13 of 24 FirstFirst ... 39101112131415161723 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload