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  1. #1
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    Question Looking for opinions on how to improve/change my Ice Savant Sorc.

    Hey guys, this is my first time ever posting anything, plus posting my very first build on DDO. I was wondering if anyone would be willing to give me feedback on how to improve this 1st life build? Since this is my first time ever posting, I do not know if there is a way to give you all the info about my build that you need without typing it all out. So here goes.

    Human Sorc. Lvl 20 Epic 6

    Str: 19 (base 8, +4 tomes, +7 items)
    Dex: 20 (base 8, +4 tomes, +8 items)
    Con: 34 (base 18, +4 tomes, +1 feat, +11 items)
    Int: 17 (base 13, +4 tomes)
    Wis: 13 (base 9, +4 tomes)
    Cha: 48 (base 22, +4 tomes, +11 feat/enchant, +11 items)

    HP: 582
    SP: 3651
    AC: 33

    Fort: 33
    Refl: 20
    Will: 22

    Spell Resis: 0
    Fort: 110%

    MAJOR SKILLS

    Balance: 30
    Concen: 50
    Jump: 20
    Spell C: 25
    UMD: 36

    FEATS (not all included)

    Epic Spell Power
    Epic Spell Focus: evoc
    Great Char
    Arcane Lore
    Draconic Vitality
    Empower
    Extend
    Heighten
    Maximize
    Greater Spell Focus: evoc
    Improved Mental Toughness
    Magical Training
    Mental Toughness
    Spell Focus: evoc

    ENCHANTMENTS

    Awaken Ele: cold
    Cold Ray
    Ele Apotheosis: water
    Frost Lance
    Human Vers: Saves Boost
    Human Vers: Spell Power Boost
    Icy Prison
    Snowball Swarm
    Abso;ute Zero
    Air Affin
    Air Savant
    Alt Current
    Cha x2
    Don't Count Me Out
    Eff. Empower/Heighten/Max
    Electrocution
    Ele Persistence
    Evo Focus
    Greater Water Affin
    Hoarfrost
    Human Adapt: Con
    Greater Adapt: Cha
    Hypothermia
    Power of Lightning
    Spell Crit: cold IV
    Spell Crit: ele II
    Spell Pen
    Water Affin
    Water Breath
    Water Savant

    EQUIP'D ITEMS

    Head: Minos
    Neck: War Wiz Amulet
    Trink: Sustaining Sym
    Cloak: Ghost Walking Epic Norm
    Belt: Sage Sash
    Rings: Dex+8 and Con +8
    Hands: Purple Drag Gaunts
    Feet: Striding +30%
    Wrists: War Wiz Bracers
    Armor: Spider Robes (insight Cha +3)
    Eyes: Delving Gogs
    Weapons: +4 Glac sep of Evoc mastery, +8 Mag of Ice Lore

    Let me know if there is anything else that you need to know such as spell list etc. I really appreciate anyone's comments and help. Thanks for taking a look.

  2. #2
    Community Member Cardtrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tpetrzelka View Post
    Hey guys, this is my first time ever posting anything, plus posting my very first build on DDO.
    Welcome to the forums!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tpetrzelka View Post
    I was wondering if anyone would be willing to give me feedback on how to improve this 1st life build?
    What kind of feedback are you looking for? Are you going to be TRing and want to improve the build on its second life? Or are you planning on an epic TR / lesser LR and want advice on feat swaps / skill changes? Or neither of those, and you're just looking for gearing suggestions and maybe some enhancement revisions?

    Do you want to stay a pure sorcerer ice savant, or are you considering other options?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tpetrzelka View Post
    Since this is my first time ever posting, I do not know if there is a way to give you all the info about my build that you need without typing it all out.
    What you did is fine, but just in case you find it helpful -- many of us use a piece of software called Ron's Character Planner. It lets you build a character, level it up, choose spells and enhancements, etc. and then export it all as nicely-formatted text (with colors, even!) for the forums.

    I've never run an ice savant, but I've run a couple of fire savants, an earth savant, and an air savant (most with either a 2 or 4 level splash in another class). All sorcerers are fairly similar, but I can't give you any specific advice on ice spells.

    Looking at your enhancements, I would consider putting enough APs into the Eldritch Knight tree to get Wand and Scroll Mastery. (It used to not work, but it's been fixed.) As a pure human, getting a boost to the power of your Heal Scrolls would probably be a benefit to you, since pretty much everyone expects all casters to self heal these days. Eldritch Knight cores also boost your force spellpower, which is nice if you use any of the missile spells, and there's some PRR available in the Shield SLA.

    As for gear, there seems to be a lot of room for improvement. One very easy thing to do is to pick up a Sage's Locket. It's a guaranteed end reward, so a single run of the quest will get it. Evocation Master V is a lot more valuable to a high-CHA, high-DC build like yours than anything you can find on the War Wizard's Amulet you're wearing. The War Wizard set is nice at level 20, especially if you don't have green steel to get you elemental spell power, but you have out leveled it.

    EDIT: Also, maybe check out Wizza's Farwind thread. A lot of the sorcerer threads you'll find on the forums are splashed builds focused around Shiradi spamming, but his is a pure human DC/DPS sorcerer. (He is air savant rather than ice savant, but there's still a lot of good stuff to take away there.) Be aware that some of the discussion in that thread is a bit out of date, but most of it will still apply well enough.
    Last edited by Cardtrick; 04-23-2014 at 07:42 PM.
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  3. #3
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    Thanks Cardtrick; your insight is very helpful. I figured that my War Wizard set had lived out its usefulness, but didn't know what to replace it with. Plus, as you can see, I am yet to create any green-steel items, which I know will help. My overall plan was to TR her when I leveled out as another Water Savant since I enjoy running her. I will definitely check out Wizza's thread to see what I can learn from that. Thanks again!

  4. #4
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    There are a couple of things that you can do better on your build in my humble opinion. I'll keep in mind that you want to TR.

    First of all, the enhancements:


    - Human Versatility: Saves boost and Human Greater Adaptability: Con

    Is that Con so important? Does it even out your Con? If you really want it, I think that Human Vers: Defense boost is better for you than saves. With your saves, you are going to fail them anyway, even with the boost. 10 PRR, on the other hand, are not a huge boost but they are better than saves.


    - Alternate Current and Absolute Zero

    Whenever you cast an Electric or Sonic damage spell, you have a 10%/20%/30% chance to gain 3 Temporary Spell Points.

    This is not very good for a pure Sorcerer. 3 temporary spell points will not do any good for your build. I'd say get rid of these two altogheter.


    - Don't Count me Out

    Your range of unconsciousness extends by 5/10/20 hitpoints, and you gain a +3/+6/+10 bonus to Physical Resistance Rating while you are under 50% health.

    Usually, enhancements that requires you to be almost dead to gain X benefit are NOT good, unless you have TONS of hit points.


    - Electric Pierce Resistance

    Why you have the electric one and not the cold one? Also, on my Air savant I usually don't take this. 6 AP to bypass 15 Electric Resistance is not good IMHO but I could see the point if you decide to take this in your primary savant.


    - Spell Crit Electric: II

    If you cast many Electric spells, you want this to be rank 4 for full benefits. It's a huge help for a sorcerers' dps.


    - Spell Penetration

    2 AP for 1 Spell pen when you have no feats for Spell Penetration so it is in fact doing nothing for you. Get rid of this also.


    - Icy Prison

    Is this working in Heroic content? Because in Epics I'm not sure the DC will be high enough for it to be worth the points.


    You will have some points to spend if you follow some of these advices. Good choices are: Wand and Scroll Mastery in the Eldritch Knight tree, Human Fighting Style if you use Orbs, Human Improved Recovery, Improved Shield in the EK tree (which I don't like) etc etc.


    The second issue are your feats.

    I personally don't think Mental Toughness and Improved MT are worth it on a pure sorcerer. I also know for a fact that focusing only on Evocation will not do any good. Enchantment is a good secondary spell focus for a Sorcerer for two reasons:

    1) Getting a good Enchantment DC does not require too much effort, even for the Epic Elite.
    2) A good enchantment DC boosts your DPS (+50% Helpless damage if you cast Mass Hold Monster on a group of mobs)

    For Heroic, you can probably get a good Necro instead of Enchantment as well but it requires more effort as the Fortitude save is usually higher on mobs.
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  5. #5

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    I'm echoing most of what is written above really. Just a few additional points:

    (btw, I'm assuming pure Sorc. will run in Draconic...)

    1) IMO it's worth doing three Sorc lives for +3 evocation DC and extra SP.
    2) IMO it's worth doing three Wiz lives for Wiz active past life feat and +6 spell penetration. I'd
    definitely agree with Wizza wrt. Enchantment (Mass Hold + Sense Weakness + Energy Burst FTW) but
    you need to worry about spell penetration again in some content. On A Sorc. I struggle to
    justify burning feats on this.
    3) Spell DC augments stack with equipment bonus (they are typed enhancement) - slot Evoc. and Enchant.
    4) Consider Electric + Fire, You can twist Empyrean magic for +20 spellpower and +10% universal spell
    crit. chance. Ice+Air is still pretty good though. I can't live without Windance + Knockdown resistance so
    I have to go air
    5) Pick up some debuffs (WoE, Solid Fog, Hypno, Crushing Despair). In higher diffs, it's generally more efficient
    to debuff, CC then nuke.

    I wouldn't worry about boosting saves too much on a pure Sorc. you're going to fail anyway. If you
    really want saves, splash 2 Pal. Concentrate on mobility and mitigation - things that don't hit you always
    do zero damage - Windance is brilliant here.

    I've just TR'ed from a forged caster to a Drow - I'm still getting used to the squishiness (*** are these
    blue rings around me and why can't I move?) but the DC difference is really noticeable. Max DC, Max
    spellpower and playing smart (debuffing and CC'ing) definitely results in a more effective caster. I was tempted
    by BF but I think even 2-3 DC difference would be very noticeable.

  6. #6
    Community Member Girlmistress's Avatar
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    Default ....

    Welcome
    I play this game mfor about 4 years now, And my favorite/best class is Sorcerer
    you have done great with this build but...
    I really prefer to be Earth savant at low lvl , Ice really sucks at low lvls, and Air is good for Epic contents...
    But for the rest everyting is fine

    Content:
    Earth Savant (low lvl)
    Air savant (High lvl)

  7. #7
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    Hey everyone. Thank you for the break down's on my build. Wizz, since I posted it, I have made some changes like getting rid of the Saves Boost and Con Enchantments, Alt Current and Absolute Zero, Don't Count Me Out, Spell Pen, and then I increased Elec Crit to lvl 4. The link that Cardtrick supplied really helped straighten some things out too. Since I have never TR'd before, do I start over with Feats so I can fix her there?

    Love all the advice guys, thanks!
    Last edited by Tpetrzelka; 04-24-2014 at 03:50 PM.

  8. #8
    Community Member schelsullivan's Avatar
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    Ive been thinking about respecing my ice sorc since so much endgame now has undead. So fire or electric?
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  9. #9
    Community Member Cardtrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schelsullivan View Post
    Ive been thinking about respecing my ice sorc since so much endgame now has undead. So fire or electric?
    I like fire/force if going Shiradi or electric if going DC-focused draconic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wizard_Zero View Post
    One day I just wrote "Why Do I Die So Much?" in party chat, and that is how I learned about fortification.

  10. #10
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tpetrzelka View Post
    Hey everyone. Thank you for the break down's on my build. Wizz, since I posted it, I have made some changes like getting rid of the Saves Boost and Con Enchantments, Alt Current and Absolute Zero, Don't Count Me Out, Spell Pen, and then I increased Elec Crit to lvl 4. The link that Cardtrick supplied really helped straighten some things out too. Since I have never TR'd before, do I start over with Feats so I can fix her there?

    Love all the advice guys, thanks!
    When you TR, it's like creating a new char from level 1 and leveling it up again. So you will have to make all the choices again: Feats, level ups (put ALL of these into Cha), Enhancements, Spells.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    When you TR, it's like creating a new char from level 1 and leveling it up again. So you will have to make all the choices again: Feats, level ups (put ALL of these into Cha), Enhancements, Spells.
    OK first, Wizza I am a complete idiot and just realized that the link I had been given (and using to modify my build) was to your Electric Sorc Build...sorry it took me this long to figure that out. Second, you mentioned that when I TR that I should put all of my focuses on Enchantments but I noticed on your build that you just Spell Focused: Enchantments and the rest went to Evocation? What am I missing?

  12. #12
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    I guess I wonder why you took extend rather than quicken? Extend works on so few things now, that I haven't found it worth having in ages. I guess if you really want to be hasted for five mintues every time. My buffs long outlive the reshrine period, and as an ice savant most of my stuff is damage and benefits very little from extend. If you took quicken, it would free up those 50 points in concentration to put elsewhere into something like diplo (useful if you get too much agg on you as well as in several dialogue options) or whatever other skills you wanted, as well as speed up the actual casting (which is particular useful for things like dancing balls). But play however you like.
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  13. #13
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tpetrzelka View Post
    OK first, Wizza I am a complete idiot and just realized that the link I had been given (and using to modify my build) was to your Electric Sorc Build...sorry it took me this long to figure that out. Second, you mentioned that when I TR that I should put all of my focuses on Enchantments but I noticed on your build that you just Spell Focused: Enchantments and the rest went to Evocation? What am I missing?
    You misunderstood me (or I typed it poorly). You shouldn't put ALL of your focuses in Enchantments but Enchantment (or Necromancy if you like it) should be your SECONDARY focus.

    What does that mean?

    It means that you should try to fit Enchantment focus item on your equip, it means you should try to fit a Greater Enchantment augment in your gear, maybe 1-2 Enchantment feats (I went with 1 as you have seen on my build). When you go into Epics (I mostly play EE), it means that maybe, instead of twisting Evocation Specialist (from Magister), you will twist Enchantment specialist.

    If you are going to TR, I'd suggesting taking the Enchantment focus feat/s later (like at level 15 or 18), simply because for leveling Evocation and nuking in general is far more faster and efficient. Enchantment really shines in the hardest difficulty of the game.

    Another point brought up by TrinityTurtle above: Extend. I LOVE extend but had to get rid of it. If you go for the Enchantment secondary, Quicken is really useful for Otto's Dancing Sphere, Mind Fog, Solid Fog (it's a -5 Reflex saves, awesome for when you have to nuke big masses or bosses). They have all relatively a slow casting animation. Quicken is also good for your SLAs and, when you get into Epic levels, for Energy Burst, Dragon Breath etc etc.

    You could get Extend as an Epic feat instead of the 2nd Great Charisma if you really want it. I miss it honestly.

    PS: If you get Quicken, don't dump points in Concentration. Your scrolls will still have to make a Concentration check if you are hit.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    You misunderstood me (or I typed it poorly). You shouldn't put ALL of your focuses in Enchantments but Enchantment (or Necromancy if you like it) should be your SECONDARY focus.

    What does that mean?

    It means that you should try to fit Enchantment focus item on your equip, it means you should try to fit a Greater Enchantment augment in your gear, maybe 1-2 Enchantment feats (I went with 1 as you have seen on my build). When you go into Epics (I mostly play EE), it means that maybe, instead of twisting Evocation Specialist (from Magister), you will twist Enchantment specialist.

    If you are going to TR, I'd suggesting taking the Enchantment focus feat/s later (like at level 15 or 18), simply because for leveling Evocation and nuking in general is far more faster and efficient. Enchantment really shines in the hardest difficulty of the game.

    Another point brought up by TrinityTurtle above: Extend. I LOVE extend but had to get rid of it. If you go for the Enchantment secondary, Quicken is really useful for Otto's Dancing Sphere, Mind Fog, Solid Fog (it's a -5 Reflex saves, awesome for when you have to nuke big masses or bosses). They have all relatively a slow casting animation. Quicken is also good for your SLAs and, when you get into Epic levels, for Energy Burst, Dragon Breath etc etc.

    You could get Extend as an Epic feat instead of the 2nd Great Charisma if you really want it. I miss it honestly.

    PS: If you get Quicken, don't dump points in Concentration. Your scrolls will still have to make a Concentration check if you are hit.
    Man, I love all the help and advice. I too noticed that Extend was kind of a bust after I reached the higher levels. I did just TR and now am rebuilding. Your explanation makes perfect sense about taking Enchant later on and nuking with Evo early.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    PS: If you get Quicken, don't dump points in Concentration. Your scrolls will still have to make a Concentration check if you are hit.
    While this is true, I'm not losing my heal scrolls when I use them (of course, on my casters I do the kobold kangaroo thing anyway outta habit to keep outa line damage spells like disintegrate and meteor swarm so that has something to do with it) and absolutely find diplo to get mobs off me far more useful personally, so this point will sorta depend on your actual playstyle, experiences, and needs. If you don't use scrolls at all or only buff scrolls, not an issue. If you are a heavy scroller, he's absolutely right.

    This I part of what I love about ddo, there are no 'true absolutes' in the game.
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  16. #16
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    I'm currently levelling an ice sorc wf who is level 17 atm (first life). I took both EVO feats and got evo dc weapon. Trash mobs still reflex save met of the time.

    What I'm reading is at higher levels it appears mobs will just reflex save no matter what. Therefore are the EVO feats a waste?

    Would I get a better return if I chose enchant feats instead?
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