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  1. #21
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    sigh.
    Last edited by NaturalHazard; 04-20-2014 at 06:55 PM.

  2. #22
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    this has been insightful. Man I suck at multitasking.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Full_Bleed View Post
    I'm hoping that some reasonable role-playing questions might put things into more perspective for them.
    More like having lost the logic argument you hope that a pure emotional pitch fares better. When ignorance gets its feelings hurt, the cure is education.

    I wouldn't go out of my way to use the word, but more because I didn't want to deal with a childish outburst. But if it was the appropriate word, I'd use it. That is my choice. When you start trying to make it a case of being wrong to use the word, that is offensive. By your logic, you should have known it would be and avoided it... yet you are just fine offending, it is others offensiveness you wish to question. Funny how that double standard works.

  4. #24
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient View Post
    More like having lost the logic argument you hope that a pure emotional pitch fares better. When ignorance gets its feelings hurt, the cure is education.

    I wouldn't go out of my way to use the word, but more because I didn't want to deal with a childish outburst. But if it was the appropriate word, I'd use it. That is my choice. When you start trying to make it a case of being wrong to use the word, that is offensive. By your logic, you should have known it would be and avoided it... yet you are just fine offending, it is others offensiveness you wish to question. Funny how that double standard works.
    but but for us darker skinned people we are suppose to be less educated about the english language even when its our first language and we need that paternal white figure to go and hide behind to protect us, like the lost children that we are.

  5. #25
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    1) Just as willing as I'd be to stand in front of an American and say that this is a fatuous thread.

    2) That would depend on what the feelings I was attempting to relay. I'd probably go with the most appropriate to relay them.

    3) I'm fairly sure that it wouldn't even occur to me that they would elicit a negative response. I'd apologise for giving offence just as I would however the offence was given.

    4) Nope. Its not too hard to understand a negative response if they didn't know what the word meant. I'm guessing it would depend on how they had the dual citizenship.

    5) Only until they understood the explanation.

    6) Yes.

  6. #26
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Full_Bleed View Post
    This thread is not a troll.
    Lets be real here, this thread, like the 2 threads that birthed it, reek of this kind of mentality.



    Truth is, no one thinks you're smart for using words like "niggardly", you do not come across as informed, brilliant, or well versed in language, in fact, using this makes you appear as a faux intellectual and more aptly a pubescent attention seeking child that found a word in the dictionary that sounds like a "bad word" but it is not, and thus has become your new favorite word for it's shock value.

  7. #27
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    Lets be real here, this thread, like the 2 threads that birthed it, reek of this kind of mentality.

    *swastika facebook image*

    Truth is, no one thinks you're smart for using words like "niggardly", you do not come across as informed, brilliant, or well versed in language, in fact, using this makes you appear as a faux intellectual and more aptly a pubescent attention seeking child that found a word in the dictionary that sounds like a "bad word" but it is not, and thus has become your new favorite word for it's shock value.
    The mistake you're making here (as well as a few others are making) is that you are inserting your own perceived intent on the speaker/writer, which automatically puts you in the wrong. You don't know if the guy with the plug is a Buddhist, or a Jainist, or maybe an East Asian with some other religious/social meaning for the symbol. Just as you don't know the intent of the person using "niggardly". You make the assumption based on your own prejudices, which OBVIOUSLY precludes any possibility of understanding.
    Quote Originally Posted by Towrn
    ...when the worst thing that happens when you make a mistake at your job is someone complains on the internet, you probably care a little less!

  8. #28
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    Truth is, no one thinks you're smart for using words like "niggardly", you do not come across as informed, brilliant, or well versed in language, in fact, using this makes you appear as a faux intellectual and more aptly a pubescent attention seeking child that found a word in the dictionary that sounds like a "bad word" but it is not, and thus has become your new favorite word for it's shock value.
    To who? Fact is the world does not revolve around the united states and there are and have been many people who have and still used the word with no regard or thought to the racial slur it sounds like. I have used the word in the past in its correct context I knew about the racial slur but I never connected the two very different words. That type of thinking had not crossed my mind until I came across it on the DDO forum boards.

    Now that I have seen this stuff I would like to ask my fellow DDO forum users to tiptoe around the use of the word coconut, and any talk about primitives in grass skirts or huts as I might get offended.

  9. #29
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
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    Here's a link to an argument about Intentionalism (which is what this argument seems to be really about). There are some pretty good arguments on both sides of the issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Towrn
    ...when the worst thing that happens when you make a mistake at your job is someone complains on the internet, you probably care a little less!

  10. #30
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    The mistake you're making here (as well as a few others are making) is that you are inserting your own perceived intent on the speaker/writer, which automatically puts you in the wrong.You don't know if the guy with the plug is a Buddhist, or a Jainist, or maybe an East Asian with some other religious/social meaning for the symbol. Just as you don't know the intent of the person using "niggardly". You make the assumption based on your own prejudices, which OBVIOUSLY precludes any possibility of understanding.
    Spare me, They said they were from America, so, do you really think that the OP was so ignorant of their own culture that they did not know or realize the phonetic similarities?

    Just like do you think that pasty white skinned anglo-saxon was in fact Hindu or Buddhist? Talk about reaching way too far to justify anything.

    There is a point when people do make culture mistakes, they say and do things that dance the line, but lets get this clear, the use of "niggardly" and the subsequent posts that followed it, reek of socially delinquent antic of trying to justify using a word they know has an incite value, calling everyone else ignorant, just as the facebook failure wanting to wear a swastika for shock value, but trying to say they are not trying to be shocking, that it's got a all this you know, deep culture history, you know.. yah.. that reeks of total BS!

  11. #31
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post

    Just like do you think that pasty white skinned anglo-saxon was in fact Hindu or Buddhist? Talk about reaching way too far to justify anything.
    So because hes pasty white and anglo-saxon he cannot be a buddhist or Hindu? I have met a few pasty white buddhists. The bad thing is a lot of them had shaven heads, jeez if they where wearing a symbol like that with shaven heads!! Good thing a lot of them where in orange and yellow robes as well.

  12. #32
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    To who? Fact is the world does not revolve around the united states and there are and have been many people who have and still used the word with no regard or thought to the racial slur it sounds like. I have used the word in the past in its correct context I knew about the racial slur but I never connected the two very different words. That type of thinking had not crossed my mind until I came across it on the DDO forum boards.

    Now that I have seen this stuff I would like to ask my fellow DDO forum users to tiptoe around the use of the word coconut, and any talk about primitives in grass skirts or huts as I might get offended.
    I am not saying the word is offensive, in fact, no word or image is in and of itself is truly offense, a person needs to chose to give that word or image power to offend them. That however, is it's own discussion.

    But lets be honest, this is a public forum, so when we post here, the words we use, we often pick them to try and best convey our message. We are not rushed to respond like in spoken language, so, knowing that, I can either believe that the OP is intelligent and thus knew the word they were using and deliberately picked it for it's shock and incite value, or my other recourse it to believe that they really, honestly, are just socially inept that they did not see the phonetic correlation between Niggardly and this word.

    Well, Much like the boy with the Swastika Ear Plugs, Which is really the most likely scenario?

  13. #33
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    So because hes pasty white and anglo-saxon he cannot be a buddhist or Hindu?
    No, but from what he says, you tell me if that sounds like someone who is actively seeking enlightenment through Buddha or Shiva, or if it sounds like a social delinquent that is trying to shock the people around him with Juvenal antics like wearing swastika in his ears and citing how they have alternate meanings.

    While it is true, the Swastika is in fact over 3000 years old, which is older then Christ, and means love, hope, and charity, we the reader are left to decipher if the persons intent is a legitimate show of homage to the images history, or is it just some pubescent antic to get attention.

    Same happens with the use of words like Niggardly.

    So what do you think is the case in this little dog and pony show that has made a mess across the forums?

  14. #34
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    Which is really the most likely scenario?
    That is still You manufacturing Intent. And it's irrelevant. As the reader it's our job to read the words objectively, look up words we don't understand, and leave Intent for last. That means giving the benefit of the doubt, clarifying, asking questions, in short: communicating. Making assumptions and prejudicially assuming the worst is exactly why we have people getting wrongly offended in the first place.
    Quote Originally Posted by Towrn
    ...when the worst thing that happens when you make a mistake at your job is someone complains on the internet, you probably care a little less!

  15. #35
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    That is still You manufacturing Intent.
    No. You are 100% wrong here.

    I am not manufacturing anything, the Intent is there to start with, I am simply trying to decipher what it is, the rest of your post continues to show the same level of defunct education in communication that you have expressed with your opening line.

    Intent is everything, if you have by some defunct in education been taught otherwise, you have not been adequately informed how interpersonal communication works.

    Or am I am to entertain that you believe that some Arabian Prince wants to give you a million dollars?

  16. #36
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    I am not saying the word is offensive, in fact, no word or image is in and of itself is truly offense, a person needs to chose to give that word or image power to offend them. That however, is it's own discussion.

    But lets be honest, this is a public forum, so when we post here, the words we use, we often pick them to try and best convey our message. We are not rushed to respond like in spoken language, so, knowing that, I can either believe that the OP is intelligent and thus knew the word they were using and deliberately picked it for it's shock and incite value, or my other recourse it to believe that they really, honestly, are just socially inept that they did not see the phonetic correlation between Niggardly and this word.

    Well, Much like the boy with the Swastika Ear Plugs, Which is really the most likely scenario?
    Never heard of giving the benefit of the doubt? Imagine if I had used the word and you all jumped all over me? Because I would of used it and been oblivious to the potential reactions. And I have had the racial slur used against me, not often especially compared to all the others which are in more common use in this part of the world. Also was I then not intelligent because I did not really think of the two words as being connected? I would not of used it for its shock value or was I previously socially inept? I'm not sure if I should be offended now? I guess I was just ignorant to the level sensitivity around the N word that unrelated words that sound the same are now banned words. What am I suppose to do now if I want to discuss maybe Nigeria, Niger, or the river Niger and there are people from the U.S.A around and they might overhear what I say or read what I write?

    Maybe I can get away with saying the N word outright? Im dark enough that I might be able to pass off on some as having some african american ancestry, though some would argue I might look more latino, native america mix? Though that really is another discussion.

    If someone uses a word similar to a racial slur used against me I will try and figure out what that persons intent is, even if I have a suspicion that he does intent to insult me, I will not bite on that, I will not give him the satisfaction if that's what hes really after and at the same time trying to show me up as having a chip on my shoulder and not having the knowledge about the real meaning of whatever word that is.

    Play some contact sports where people try to sledge you to get under your skin and maybe get a reaction from you to get them a penalty or worse get you sent off and you have to learn some discipline. I do not like sledging and don't really take part and I think going to racial slurs is really crossing the line. But im not going to lose it and cost my team, and if im going to take retribution im going to do it in a smart way. At the end of the game I might forgive and socialize with people who might of given me a bit of a niggle but not with the people who used racial slurs, unless they gave me a sincere apology.

  17. #37
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post

    While it is true, the Swastika is in fact over 3000 years old, which is older then Christ, and means love, hope, and charity, we the reader are left to decipher if the persons intent is a legitimate show of homage to the images history, or is it just some pubescent antic to get attention.
    ?
    So its like what? A girl of mainly european ancestry dating a guy of mainly non-european background solely to get outrage from some people, like maybe her parents or something?

  18. #38
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    No. You are 100% wrong here.

    I am not manufacturing anything, the Intent is there to start with, I am simply trying to decipher what it is, the rest of your post continues to show the same level of defunct education in communication that you have expressed with your opening line.

    Intent is everything, if you have by some defunct in education been taught otherwise, you have not been adequately informed how interpersonal communication works.

    Or am I am to entertain that you believe that some Arabian Prince wants to give you a million dollars?
    Im getting confused here, he says your manufacturing the intent you say your not, fair enough, then you go on to say hes stupid for thinking differently to you? He thinks that the intent is not clear, it was not to me either, now bear in mind neither of us have the same life experiences as you, nor do we both live in the same country as you? So now because we do not see the world the same way as you our education system is inferior to yours and so is our intelligence? I strongly disagree with that assertion.

  19. #39
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    So its like what? A girl of mainly european ancestry dating a guy of mainly non-european background solely to get outrage from some people, like maybe her parents or something?
    Dude, No offence, but I don't even think Cannith Rocket Boots would help me follow that jump in logic.

    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    Im getting confused here, he says your manufacturing the intent you say your not, fair enough, then you go on to say hes stupid for thinking differently to you? He thinks that the intent is not clear, it was not to me either, now bear in mind neither of us have the same life experiences as you, nor do we both live in the same country as you? So now because we do not see the world the same way as you our education system is inferior to yours and so is our intelligence? I strongly disagree with that assertion.
    I never questioned his intelligence level. I said he was ill informed, which is true. Whoever taught him that intent is irrelevant, did him an injustice.

    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    That is still You manufacturing Intent. And it's irrelevant.

  20. #40
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    Never heard of giving the benefit of the doubt?
    I did.. with my very first post to their topic.

    After reading a few of their responses, I realized they knew what they were doing, and thus the benefit and the doubt went away.

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