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  1. #81
    Community Member Ykt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    This whole topic is really is making me think of this.

    Nice, couldn't agree more.

  2. #82
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    You're describing a very specific scenario, and still, even in such a controlled environment, the failure would lie squarely on your downstream audience.
    Welcome to real life. "****" flows down hill, not up.

    Quite honestly, you may consider it very specific but it isn't. It is quite generic and common when you think through it.

    Reality rejects opinion no matter how much parties like how it sounds.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    Welcome to real life. "****" flows down hill, not up.

    Quite honestly, you may consider it very specific but it isn't. It is quite generic and common when you think through it.

    Reality rejects opinion no matter how much parties like how it sounds.
    Try taking a complaint about niggardly to any reasonable HR department and you would be labeled the trouble maker.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient View Post
    Try taking a complaint about niggardly to any reasonable HR department and you would be labeled the trouble maker.
    Wrong checked with two that I deal with and while the word isn't racist it could be mistakenly taken as so. I showed the three threads dealing with this and the HR departments opinion was that it was done with the clear intent to stir up trouble and the instigators would be warned not to do anything similar again. These were two different companies one a large retail store and the other a multi-state health care system. I have training in HR myself and intent has to be taken in to account.

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    Wrong checked with two that I deal with and while the word isn't racist it could be mistakenly taken as so. I showed the three threads dealing with this and the HR departments opinion was that it was done with the clear intent to stir up trouble and the instigators would be warned not to do anything similar again. These were two different companies one a large retail store and the other a multi-state health care system. I have training in HR myself and intent has to be taken in to account.
    As does the intent of the one who complains... and unless you could prove that intent of the original poster, you would be open to a lawsuit.
    Last edited by Ancient; 04-20-2014 at 09:38 PM.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    Actually to a degree it does. I often have to dumb down what I'm doing so that managers get a clue that I'm actually very busy, let alone some of the company acronyms wouldn't pass HR either. Such as Control Logic Interface Throughput.

    You may try to call out the "off chance" per your quote. I have no idea what the manager is going to say to others. Last thing I need is fall out coming due to lack of understanding.
    I can see where this is important when communicating in a formal environment. I believe it is less of an issue in a casual environment like this forum. The only indications I have as to whether I adequately addressed my target audience are the number of views, neutral responses, positive responses, and negative responses. From what I have seen, the negative responders were a small fraction, so I succeeded in communicating with the majority of those who cared about the topic.
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  7. #87
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    I have training in HR myself and intent has to be taken in to account.
    I have to agree with you here, The intentions behind the words are often worth more then the words themselves.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    I have to agree with you here, The intentions behind the words are often worth more then the words themselves.
    And the original poster has repeatedly said he did not intend to provoke. So now it would be up to the PC czars to prove him a liar.

  9. #89
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient View Post
    And the original poster has repeatedly said he did not intend to provoke. So now it would be up to the PC czars to prove him a liar.
    One would only have to go as far as to show that in this topic header alone the OP listed several other benign words they could have used in lieu of the word they opted to use, thus they were not lacking for proper words to convey their points, as such it's pretty clear they opted to pick the word that would elicit the most inciting response.

  10. #90
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    Coming in Update 22: New iconic race, the Niggard.

    Base stats/skills:
    • +10 Haggle
    • +2 CHA for even more Haggle
    • +2 WIS because a copper saved is a copper earned
    • -2 CON due to being too parsimonious to buy healthy food
    • -2 INT from lack of education due to spending so much time shopping for deals


    Racial feats:
    • Pricked Finger: Enemy spellcaster is unable to cast spells with a somatic component for 12 seconds. No save. If you weren't so thrifty with your gear, you'd have chopped their head off.
    • Chinked Armour: (Requires Past Life: Niggard.) In a past life, you were an armour broker, but sold substandard equipment to monsters. Enemies lose 50% fortification and 20 AC, and become particularly bad at driving cars.
    • Cunning Linguist: Fascinate your enemies with your mastery of the Common Tongue. Works better on female opponents.
    • Gay Conversion: One target changes from a sour old monster to a permanent happy ally. So long as the converted mob stays alive, provides +2 CHA bonus to anyone within 10 meters due to free grooming and wardrobe advice.
    • ******: AoE that decreases enemy movement speed effect. Stacks with effects such as Slow, Stench, Limbchop.
    • (Epic Feat) Summon Monster X: Summon a hairy donkey to carry help carry your supplies (double encumbrance limit), a hot housecat to distract your enemies (even devils and demons like cat videos), or a big rooster (because you're too cheap to buy a hawking gauntlet).


    Prepurchase the Niggard race today, selling for more TP than you're willing to pay!
    I Cannith-craft (150 levels in all schools) for free on Thelanis if you provide all needed materials.
    Getting Past Traps without Trap Skills | Musical Musings

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    Wrong checked with two that I deal with and while the word isn't racist it could be mistakenly taken as so. I showed the three threads dealing with this and the HR departments opinion was that it was done with the clear intent to stir up trouble and the instigators would be warned not to do anything similar again. These were two different companies one a large retail store and the other a multi-state health care system. I have training in HR myself and intent has to be taken in to account.
    After what I have learned, I would understand HR personnel having a bias toward caution and protecting the company from lawsuits. However, the people you consulted were at a disadvantage. You said you showed them the three threads involved. There were four. The original thread was cleaned up at my request to keep it on topic. Without the original thread, your HR people do not know how the discussion came into being in the first place, and they cannot accurately form an opinion about intent.
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  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    One would only have to go as far as to show that in this topic header alone the OP listed several other benign words they could have used in lieu of the word they opted to use, thus they were not lacking for proper words to convey their points, as such it's pretty clear they opted to pick the word that would elicit the most inciting response.
    So you are in favor of banning a word purely based on ignorant hysteria. I reject yours stance.

  13. #93
    The Hatchery Scraap's Avatar
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    I'll simply say I find it rather sad that folks continue to heap up weight on a particular connotation, regardless of the original intent of the words usage. It's the kind of thing that perpetuates the ugliness of that connotation, instead of taking it at face value and moving on with life, which eventually undermines any shock-value it may have had. But hey, /popcorn and all that, right?

  14. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    Wrong checked with two that I deal with and while the word isn't racist it could be mistakenly taken as so. I showed the three threads dealing with this and the HR departments opinion was that it was done with the clear intent to stir up trouble and the instigators would be warned not to do anything similar again. These were two different companies one a large retail store and the other a multi-state health care system. I have training in HR myself and intent has to be taken in to account.
    Of course. The OP and a few others are merely here to watch the conversations of two very similarly spelled and sounding words, one not offensive and one knowingly offensive spiral into a mess on the weekends. The reasonable action in real life in a place of employment would be to file a complaint against a co-worker/boss etc. who insisted on "playing with words" such as the two words everyone knows we are talking about. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 bans harassment of this very kind in the workplace, and I've seen others sue (and win) based on real life commentary very similar to whats used in the several threads on this topic. "Intent" is everything.
    Last edited by LeslieWest_GuitarGod; 04-20-2014 at 10:54 PM.


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  15. #95
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient View Post
    So you are in favor of banning a word purely based on ignorant hysteria. I reject yours stance.
    No, I am in favor of holding people accountable for the intent behind the words the use.

    I reject the strawman stand you have made up as well.

  16. #96
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thalone View Post
    Coming in Update 22: New iconic race, the Niggard.

    Base stats/skills:
    • +10 Haggle
    • +2 CHA for even more Haggle
    • +2 WIS because a copper saved is a copper earned
    • -2 CON due to being too parsimonious to buy healthy food
    • -2 INT from lack of education due to spending so much time shopping for deals


    Racial feats:
    • Pricked Finger: Enemy spellcaster is unable to cast spells with a somatic component for 12 seconds. No save. If you weren't so thrifty with your gear, you'd have chopped their head off.
    • Chinked Armour: (Requires Past Life: Niggard.) In a past life, you were an armour broker, but sold substandard equipment to monsters. Enemies lose 50% fortification and 20 AC, and become particularly bad at driving cars.
    • Cunning Linguist: Fascinate your enemies with your mastery of the Common Tongue. Works better on female opponents.
    • Gay Conversion: One target changes from a sour old monster to a permanent happy ally. So long as the converted mob stays alive, provides +2 CHA bonus to anyone within 10 meters due to free grooming and wardrobe advice.
    • ******: AoE that decreases enemy movement speed effect. Stacks with effects such as Slow, Stench, Limbchop.
    • (Epic Feat) Summon Monster X: Summon a hairy donkey to carry help carry your supplies (double encumbrance limit), a hot housecat to distract your enemies (even devils and demons like cat videos), or a big rooster (because you're too cheap to buy a hawking gauntlet).


    Prepurchase the Niggard race today, selling for more TP than you're willing to pay!
    Ok I laughed, this was some win!

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    This whole topic is really is making me think of this.

    *** swastika symbol pic ***
    Swastika Niggardly
    Inoffensive origin
    Yes
    Yes
    Corrupted into offensive usage
    Yes
    No
    Has current offensive meaning
    Yes
    No
    Range of offensive meaning
    Global
    None
    Has current inoffensive meaning
    Yes
    Yes
    Range of inoffensive meaning
    Originating culture and derivatives
    English speaking world and possibly Germanic

    Not much of a resemblance, really.
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  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    One would only have to go as far as to show that in this topic header alone the OP listed several other benign words they could have used in lieu of the word they opted to use, thus they were not lacking for proper words to convey their points, as such it's pretty clear they opted to pick the word that would elicit the most inciting response.
    It does not follow.
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  19. #99
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    After what I have learned, I would understand HR personnel having a bias toward caution and protecting the company from lawsuits. However, the people you consulted were at a disadvantage. You said you showed them the three threads involved. There were four. The original thread was cleaned up at my request to keep it on topic. Without the original thread, your HR people do not know how the discussion came into being in the first place, and they cannot accurately form an opinion about intent.
    I don't know if you work or not, but I'll be honest with you, if HR got a complaint about you using this word, IF they believed your intent was innocent you would get a little message or sit down where they tried to explain to you that "It is phonetically too similar to a racial slur to be of acceptable use around the company or with your co-workers", this would pretty much just be a warning. If you then started this little dog and pony show about people are ignorant and that the word is fine, you would be fired.

    You pretty much lost the "Innocent" motive when you started to go down the "People are ignorant" path.

  20. #100
    The Hatchery Scraap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thalone View Post
    Coming in Update 22: New iconic race, the Niggard.

    Base stats/skills:
    • +10 Haggle
    • +2 CHA for even more Haggle
    • +2 WIS because a copper saved is a copper earned
    • -2 CON due to being too parsimonious to buy healthy food
    • -2 INT from lack of education due to spending so much time shopping for deals


    Racial feats:
    • Pricked Finger: Enemy spellcaster is unable to cast spells with a somatic component for 12 seconds. No save. If you weren't so thrifty with your gear, you'd have chopped their head off.
    • Chinked Armour: (Requires Past Life: Niggard.) In a past life, you were an armour broker, but sold substandard equipment to monsters. Enemies lose 50% fortification and 20 AC, and become particularly bad at driving cars.
    • Cunning Linguist: Fascinate your enemies with your mastery of the Common Tongue. Works better on female opponents.
    • Gay Conversion: One target changes from a sour old monster to a permanent happy ally. So long as the converted mob stays alive, provides +2 CHA bonus to anyone within 10 meters due to free grooming and wardrobe advice.
    • ******: AoE that decreases enemy movement speed effect. Stacks with effects such as Slow, Stench, Limbchop.
    • (Epic Feat) Summon Monster X: Summon a hairy donkey to carry help carry your supplies (double encumbrance limit), a hot housecat to distract your enemies (even devils and demons like cat videos), or a big rooster (because you're too cheap to buy a hawking gauntlet).


    Prepurchase the Niggard race today, selling for more TP than you're willing to pay!
    You forgot free Bastard Sword proficiency at level 1, by the way.

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