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  1. #1
    Founder Dorian's Avatar
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    Default Ideally any capstone is at least as good as Evasion (if not better).

    Link for reference: Dev Quote About Capstones
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    Ideally any capstone is at least as good as Evasion (if not better).

    We understand some work may need to be done on individual abilities to achieve the proper balance.
    Why didn't they just stick to this simple design/balance principle that all capstone should be as good as evasion.

    I think this would solve 90% of the staying pure balance problems currently in the game.
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  2. #2
    2016 DDO Players Council Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorian View Post
    Link for reference: Dev Quote About Capstones

    Why didn't they just stick to this simple design/balance principle that all capstone should be as good as evasion.

    I think this would solve 90% of the staying pure balance problems currently in the game.
    one thought they have is looking into how mobs and PCs make saves. it could be they are thinking about boosting saves for builds that don't have evasion or it could be they are thinking maybe evasion is too powerful and needs a nerf.

    really, how do you balance capstones to be as powerful with evasion when capstones are about moar dps? looking into saves in general and making adjustments is probably the better approach than increasing the power creep. you don't even need a high dex and evasion can be quite powerful, especially if you throw in all the enhancements, abilities and gear that can reduce damage greatly and increase your saves. not only that, but in EE there are a lot of ranged characters to avoid attacks when they are out of mobs reach.
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    Community Member jortann's Avatar
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    That would be hard to do, because evasion is that good.

    How do you make a capstone as good as ... avoiding 90% of spell damage? That would be hard to do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorian View Post
    Link for reference: Dev Quote About Capstones

    Why didn't they just stick to this simple design/balance principle that all capstone should be as good as evasion.

    I think this would solve 90% of the staying pure balance problems currently in the game.
    I clicked on this post all ready to argue, only to find that you meant "any capstone SHOULD BE as good as Evasion" ;P

    Yea, of course there are several systems in this game that are seriously unbalanced. Like past lives.

  5. #5
    Community Member Noctus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jortann View Post
    That would be hard to do, because evasion is that good.

    How do you make a capstone as good as ... avoiding 90% of spell damage? That would be hard to do.
    50%. Exactly.
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  6. #6
    Community Member jortann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noctus View Post
    50%. Exactly.
    No. Assuming you have a good reflex save, you take no damage at all. However you are not able to evade all spells, as some do not have a reflex save. For example, Divine punishment, Niac's etc.

    So, with a working reflex save it seems that you just laugh at most enemy spells.... it feels like about 90% of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by The-Last-Wolf View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by jortann View Post
    That would be hard to do, because evasion is that good.

    How do you make a capstone as good as ... avoiding 90% of spell damage? That would be hard to do.
    Yeah only way to make capstones as good as evasion is giving each capstone evasion. Which would be silly.

    You'll have too look at the quests and why evasion is so great, don't think you can fix the issue from the character balance point.

    Varg in the balance thread already kinda said they would look into this

  8. #8
    Community Member Gauthaag's Avatar
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    simple - make devs to use more spells that are not using reflex save. just now casters use mostly instakills (laughable with DB), elemental spells (reflex saves mostly) or no save ones

  9. #9
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    The main problem is all of the capstones provide fixed bonuses - usually +2 to your core stat and a modest boost to your class abilities (e.g., +5 Spellpower +1 MCL) - while splashing can provide open-ended bonuses like Div Might / Grace (there's so much stat inflation these days you could dump CHA and still wind up around CHA 30 by level cap) or new abilities such as Evasion which you can't get elsewhere. [Well, you can get Evasion from Shadowdancer and Primal Avatar, but those are suboptimal EDs for most builds.]

    Ironically, one of the few good capstones at the moment is Occult Slayer, because it turns your CON score into Spell Resistance; it might be the only way to get endgame-viable SR. A pity that pure barbs are so lacking in other areas. But until all of the capstones provide similar bonuses, pure builds are gonna lag behind what a good MC build can achieve, IMHO.
    Last edited by unbongwah; 04-17-2014 at 10:39 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    The main problem is all of the capstones provide fixed bonuses - usually +2 to your core stat and a modest boost to your class abilities (e.g., +5 Spellpower +1 MCL) - while splashing can provide open-ended bonuses like Div Might / Grace (there's so much stat inflation these days you could dump CHA and still wind up around CHA 30 by level cap) or new abilities such as Evasion which you can't get elsewhere. [Well, you can get Evasion from Shadowdancer and Primal Avatar, but those are suboptimal EDs for most builds.]

    Ironically, one of the few good capstones at the moment is Occult Slayer, because it turns your CON score into Spell Resistance; it might be the only way to get endgame-viable SR. A pity that pure barbs are so lacking in other areas. But until all of the capstones provide similar bonuses, pure builds are gonna lag behind what a good MC build can achieve, IMHO.
    I've not played anything with spell resistance or even a caster lol but according to the wiki pure damage spells ignore spell resistance is that info correct ?
    Because i don't see how SR would help if it is true.

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    Seriously, just take the time to read through some of them...I'm not intimately familiar with every class...but man, some of them are SO BAD. Assuming the wiki is fairly accurate, I'm seriously laughing out loud at most of these...a good old Edna Krabappel "HA!" for the lot of 'em.

  12. #12
    Community Member Ryethielnas's Avatar
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    Evasion is not the only lovely little thing you get with that Monk splash.
    Last edited by Ryethielnas; 04-17-2014 at 11:12 AM.
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  13. #13
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Power creep = bad.

    A better idea is to lower the value of evasion. Drop the insanely stupid amounts of spell/trap damage we're currently seeing in EEs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Power creep = bad.

    A better idea is to lower the value of evasion. Drop the insanely stupid amounts of spell/trap damage we're currently seeing in EEs.
    I agree with that too, but seriously, some of the capstones essentially provide nothing more than +2 Stat. So ok, maybe Master's Blitz shouldn't be a capstone...but MANY of them need to do more. Preferably something relatively unique.

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    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    Yea, of course there are several systems in this game that are seriously unbalanced. Like past lives.
    ???

    Past lives are pretty minimal compared to what we get from epic destinies. What is unbalanced about them? The only thing that makes them worth pursuing at all is the fact that they stack with other abilities.
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    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jortann View Post
    No. Assuming you have a good reflex save, you take no damage at all. However you are not able to evade all spells, as some do not have a reflex save. For example, Divine punishment, Niac's etc.

    So, with a working reflex save it seems that you just laugh at most enemy spells.... it feels like about 90% of them.
    If you have a reflex save that's good enough to work with evasion, then you would already be avoiding 50% of the damage. Evasion just gives you the other 50%. Now that's certainly a big deal because avoiding that other 50% really does give a lot of survivability, but Evasion gives 50%. The reflex save itself without evasion gives the other 50%.
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  17. #17
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    Capstones are very underwhelming compared to the benefits of multi-classing. They need a very significant boost.
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  18. #18
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandir View Post
    I've not played anything with spell resistance or even a caster lol but according to the wiki pure damage spells ignore spell resistance is that info correct ?
    Because i don't see how SR would help if it is true.
    SR mostly protects you from CC & instakill spells. There are a few spells like Energy Drain and Otto's Irresistible which have no DC check, only a Spell Pen one; so a high enough SR provides immunity from those spells.

    The problem is most forms of SR in DDO don't stack and a lot of them cap out in the 30-40 SR range - far too low to do any good in endgame. A CON-based Occult Slayer is possibly the only way of getting an EE-viable SR.

  19. #19
    Community Member Jacobius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rimble View Post
    I agree with that too, but seriously, some of the capstones essentially provide nothing more than +2 Stat. So ok, maybe Master's Blitz shouldn't be a capstone...but MANY of them need to do more. Preferably something relatively unique.
    Master's Blitz is not a capstone, it is a ED epic moment. A capstone is a last tier core enhancement you can get at lvl 20 by only going pure in a class which is why there were suppose to be as good or better then evasion giving a reason to have to choose between going pure or splash for evasion.

  20. #20
    Community Member Nestroy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    Capstones are very underwhelming compared to the benefits of multi-classing. They need a very significant boost.
    As outlined here - Capstones need something very good (not uber, mind you, should be achiveable with some tinkering or splashing anyway) that makes them go "Yumm". E.g. a "Greater Vorpal" effect that is still usefull on at least low epic EE content for Assassins or e.g. the tier 3 core ability "Int to Damage" from the Mechanic Rogue for Capstone Artificers or something like that. That would go long ways for staying pure, as you mentioned and are (as often) 100 % right.

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