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  1. #1
    Community Member Menethenes's Avatar
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    Default Blue Screen of Death.. wait.. REALLY?

    So my gaming computer died a while back and I was forced to unearth an old single core XP system I had built years ago. I also recently started DDO up again. It runs tolerably well.. but one thing amazes me.. every now and then I get a blue screen of death and a reboot! In 2014! I thought that blue screen nonsense was ancient history back before XP even came out. My wife with a slightly newer dual core system started having the same problem when she joined me in DDO. Can DDO really be using such outdated code? I can play WoW, Rift, DC Universe and LOTRO on this computer with no problems of this kind at all.

    Yes, yes, I know. Need to buy a new computer. But in the meantime, any advice? What do you think is the most likely problem, maybe an audio conflict? Any help would be appreciated.

  2. #2
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    Memory leak is my guess.

  3. #3
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    There have been some notorious SB XiFi audio card issues with DDO. I went thru the same thing long ago with BSOD's. I had to disable my SB XiFi card and use my on-board for DDO. I honestly couldn't tell you if these have been addressed but I think probably not. Couple links here:

    Word from a Turbine Rep in 2012:
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post4352459

    Older but still possibly significant:
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/179426

  4. #4
    Community Member zeonardo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menethenes View Post
    I thought that blue screen nonsense was ancient history back before XP even came out.
    This is Win8's BSOD


    Never had it, though some coworkers experienced that while using some USB LAN ports on a Dell XPS.
    I don't care...

    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    It can certainly hurt to be on the receiving end of a nerf

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Menethenes View Post
    So my gaming computer died a while back and I was forced to unearth an old single core XP system I had built years ago. I also recently started DDO up again. It runs tolerably well.. but one thing amazes me.. every now and then I get a blue screen of death and a reboot! In 2014! I thought that blue screen nonsense was ancient history back before XP even came out. My wife with a slightly newer dual core system started having the same problem when she joined me in DDO. Can DDO really be using such outdated code? I can play WoW, Rift, DC Universe and LOTRO on this computer with no problems of this kind at all.

    Yes, yes, I know. Need to buy a new computer. But in the meantime, any advice? What do you think is the most likely problem, maybe an audio conflict? Any help would be appreciated.
    Blue Screens are typically a OS report of a hardware failure. Not really a DDo issue.
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  6. #6
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menethenes View Post
    Yes, yes, I know. Need to buy a new computer. But in the meantime, any advice? What do you think is the most likely problem, maybe an audio conflict? Any help would be appreciated.
    Probably memory useage due to drivers requesting memory out of range of what is allocated. Known XP issue that effects more than just DDO.

    Back when there was actually a "myddo" I had instructions posted on how to possibly solve that issue. Any more... all I can remember is that some player in Call of Duty figured it out.

  7. #7
    Community Member Menethenes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drwaz99 View Post
    There have been some notorious SB XiFi audio card issues with DDO. I went thru the same thing long ago with BSOD's. I had to disable my SB XiFi card and use my on-board for DDO. I honestly couldn't tell you if these have been addressed but I think probably not. Couple links here:

    Word from a Turbine Rep in 2012:
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post4352459

    Older but still possibly significant:
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/179426
    Not using a SB audio card.

    Quote Originally Posted by Impaqt View Post
    Blue Screens are typically a OS report of a hardware failure. Not really a DDo issue.
    But.. if this never, ever happens with any other game (I havent seen a blue screen of death in probably 5-6+ years), then it IS an issue with DDO, right? Not that that matters, I just want to figure out how to fix it. =)

    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    Probably memory useage due to drivers requesting memory out of range of what is allocated. Known XP issue that effects more than just DDO.

    Back when there was actually a "myddo" I had instructions posted on how to possibly solve that issue. Any more... all I can remember is that some player in Call of Duty figured it out.
    Turbine certainly is known for memory issues. In LOTRO I WILL eventually crash if I play long enough, its just a matter of when.

    So.. ok. Ill do some more research, I just wanted to see if there was an obvious issue that many folks had encountered and solved. Thanks for the help.

  8. #8
    Community Member Nightmanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menethenes View Post
    So my gaming computer died a while back and I was forced to unearth an old single core XP system I had built years ago. I also recently started DDO up again. It runs tolerably well.. but one thing amazes me.. every now and then I get a blue screen of death and a reboot! In 2014! I thought that blue screen nonsense was ancient history back before XP even came out. My wife with a slightly newer dual core system started having the same problem when she joined me in DDO. Can DDO really be using such outdated code? I can play WoW, Rift, DC Universe and LOTRO on this computer with no problems of this kind at all.

    Yes, yes, I know. Need to buy a new computer. But in the meantime, any advice? What do you think is the most likely problem, maybe an audio conflict? Any help would be appreciated.
    On my old computer, I actually was doing a TOD. The tank was....terrible, to say the least. So I jumped in, hit intimidate, and horoth punched me once...


    ...and blue screened my computer. Straight 1 shot boom restart needed.

  9. #9
    Community Member XiaNYdE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menethenes View Post
    So my gaming computer died a while back and I was forced to unearth an old single core XP system I had built years ago. I also recently started DDO up again. It runs tolerably well.. but one thing amazes me.. every now and then I get a blue screen of death and a reboot! In 2014! I thought that blue screen nonsense was ancient history back before XP even came out. My wife with a slightly newer dual core system started having the same problem when she joined me in DDO. Can DDO really be using such outdated code? I can play WoW, Rift, DC Universe and LOTRO on this computer with no problems of this kind at all.

    Yes, yes, I know. Need to buy a new computer. But in the meantime, any advice? What do you think is the most likely problem, maybe an audio conflict? Any help would be appreciated.
    Probably be easier to help if you could let me know the error code it gave when it blue-screened.

    And yes BSOD does exist on Win8, it is usually caused by a simple driver error or bad memory on any windows system, and believe it or not it is a good thing it's letting you know you have an issue and even gives you the error code to seek the almighty googles help without having to dive into windows logs.
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  10. #10
    Community Member Rykka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menethenes View Post
    So my gaming computer died a while back and I was forced to unearth an old single core XP system I had built years ago. I also recently started DDO up again. It runs tolerably well.. but one thing amazes me.. every now and then I get a blue screen of death and a reboot! In 2014! I thought that blue screen nonsense was ancient history back before XP even came out. My wife with a slightly newer dual core system started having the same problem when she joined me in DDO. Can DDO really be using such outdated code? I can play WoW, Rift, DC Universe and LOTRO on this computer with no problems of this kind at all.

    Yes, yes, I know. Need to buy a new computer. But in the meantime, any advice? What do you think is the most likely problem, maybe an audio conflict? Any help would be appreciated.
    If you can't diagnose a XP BSOD, or even present a BSOD problem as a solvable issue to people who might have a clue, you should probably upgrade to a $289 Asus win8.1 i3 laptop (with a touchscreen 4GBDDR3 500GB HDD etc...). I'm just saying that it takes very very little to run DDO and if your $/hr is somewhat relevant and you aren't into leveraging personal tech knowledge into making a $25 thrift shop purchase into a ghetto game box... well you're just better off getting a part time job at jack in the box for a week.

  11. #11
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    ya ddo screws up with audio drivers alot and causes blue screens. Had it happen on a new build. Found out after testing it and looking up the reports in blue that it was audio. Only happened with ddo as well. Go figure. But an update fixed er.
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  12. #12
    Community Member Daitengu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmanis View Post
    On my old computer, I actually was doing a TOD. The tank was....terrible, to say the least. So I jumped in, hit intimidate, and horoth punched me once...


    ...and blue screened my computer. Straight 1 shot boom restart needed.
    Forgot your boots and got banished thoroughly ?

    OnTopic: Its most likely some hardware or driver problem.

  13. #13
    Community Member moomooprincess's Avatar
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    I have reported this, but I am pretty sure Turbine circular filed it

    OS = Windows 7, I don't get the BSD though

    Logging out once in 100 times or so, I get

    Logging out of DDO just now I received
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    Microsoft Visual C++ Runtime Library Window

    This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual way.
    Please contact the application's support team for more information.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    On Windows Vista, I get the Blue Screen of Death occasionally.

    It only occurs when logging out of DDO. Not while playing. Not when changing characters. No other application.
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  14. #14
    2015 DDO Players Council Seikojin's Avatar
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    Since U20, I have had hangs when leaving the game. Not during or when logging in, only when closing. I suspect some of the many processes running in the background died and the game client can't properly tie things off and close. Task manager fixes that.

    For the OP: code block some dxdiag info or something. Write down the error. Most of the time these are compatibility issues at worst, and a new driver (or even older) will fix it.

    For Moomooprincess, when was the last time you did windows updates? Maybe a .net update will help resolve that particular error. Or did you have issues when installing anything (ddo or otherwise)? Corrupt cross dependencies only show up with errors when the file is called.

    There are a couple of ddo speed loading apps that may also cause compatibility issues after ddo gets updated.

  15. #15
    Community Member Menethenes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rykka View Post
    If you can't diagnose a XP BSOD, or even present a BSOD problem as a solvable issue to people who might have a clue, you should probably upgrade to a $289 Asus win8.1 i3 laptop (with a touchscreen 4GBDDR3 500GB HDD etc...). I'm just saying that it takes very very little to run DDO and if your $/hr is somewhat relevant and you aren't into leveraging personal tech knowledge into making a $25 thrift shop purchase into a ghetto game box... well you're just better off getting a part time job at jack in the box for a week.
    Well thanks for the advice. And why dont you refrain from posting a response at all if you cant avoid insulting another player.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    Probably memory useage due to drivers requesting memory out of range of what is allocated. Known XP issue that effects more than just DDO.

    Back when there was actually a "myddo" I had instructions posted on how to possibly solve that issue. Any more... all I can remember is that some player in Call of Duty figured it out.
    I think I know which of your old posts you are referring here, and I think it's this one:

    Code:
    A Possible Solution to the Zone in and Crash issue. (32 bit OS only)
    Posted On: May 29th, 2012
    Posted By: Missing_Minds
    Posted in: Uncategorized
    Several players have the issue of zoning into Gianhold, Desert, or what have you for an adventure region, and then crash. What is the cause of this is still unknown, but could very well relate to memory management (among a large list of possibilities).
    The reason why it could be memory management is because by default, most all 32 bit OS are rigged to allow 2 gig of memory for system/kernal usage and 2 gig for user memory. If a program tries to go beyond that, it goes out of range and most programs crash at that point. DDO is compiled to be able to handle larger than 2 gig of address space. (confirmed by SisAmethyst. http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4485144&postcount=30)
    
    The person that I first saw suggest this fix was SilentAssassin82 as he used the fix for Battlefield 3. This fix is only for 32 bit OS versions of XP,Vista, and Win7.
    
    The following comes directly from the link below.
    http://sonsofvalour.forumotion.co.nz/t687-battlefield-3-tweaks-and-fixes
    
    ———————————-
    
    What does it help with?
    This is not the solution for all crashes. It deals primarily with the crash to desktop that is caused by lack of virtual address space. Due to the unique nature of how addresses are mapped differently on each machine this crash may happen at different places and times of the game, even loading a map, menu or waiting on an AI turn. If you try this fix, and you follow directions properly, and it doesn’t help you then your crash is due to something else.
    
    How do I do it?
    Follow directions explicitly. I have seen people consistently skip steps or not read the directions properly so it doesn’t work for them when they don’t do what it says. it’s not as complicated as it sounds, I’m just being thorough.
    
    APPLY THE WORKAROUND (juicy caramel center)
    
    Requirements
    
    Only real requirements is that you have at least 2GB RAM. You don’t need beyond that even though we are allowing addressing up to 2.5 GB. Also following instructions and being somewhat familiar with working with files in windows is required. Make sure you are using Vista SP1 or later. If not then you need this hotfix that fixes a major blunder with Vista address space - http://support.microsoft.com/kb/940105 “Virtual address space usage in Windows Vista game development”
    
    That’s all, follow the 3 steps.
    
    1) Prepare the operating system to be able to use beyond 2GB address space with a userva of 2.5GB (only 32 bit OS’s need to do this): I am purposely using only 2500 for userva for specific reasons and any more will likely not be needed, as a result the kernel will have plenty of space to play in.
    
    Windows 7/Windows Vista
    * In Windows 7/Vista go to Start menu. Go to Accessories. Locate the command prompt shortcut and hover mouse over it. Right Click on the shortcut then select Run as Administrator.
    * In the command prompt type this exactly: bcdedit /set increaseuserva 2500. Then hit enter.
    * Make sure you get a message back confirming the change was made. To verify the entry is there you can type just bcdedit, hit enter, and you should see the entry now listed.
    * Then close the command prompt. You just told Vista to increase user virtual address (userva) space to 2500MB.
    * Changes take effect on reboot but don’t reboot yet.
    
    SUMMARY
    We extended the user virtual address space in XP, Vista and 7 to 2500MB, so now applications can utilize up to that much if they are set to be Large Address Aware. While some 32 bit games/applications are set, Empire is not.
    
    2) Now reboot the PC because Windows needs to set the userva at 2500 which only happens after startup.
    
    If you skip any step it will not work. When you have rebooted you should be good to go. Run the game as normal with the original game shortcut.
    
    TO UNDO THE CHANGES
    For Vista 32 Open command prompt as administrator and type: bcdedit /deletevalue increaseuserva. That deletes the entry.
    Reboot and you are back to normal.
    
    ———————————-
    
    It should be noted that you may get Out of Memory (OOS) issues depending on your graphic card memory size (notably if your GPU has more than 640 MB of RAM). From what I’ve read on different sites, reduce the value of 2500 by 64 each time until your system becomes stable.
    
    XP 32 bit
    http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/forum/threadview/2832654489420350764/1/
    
    Note: for whatever reason, this blog system is very dumb and will not allow boot_ini to use a “.” for the actual file name. So just remember it is looking for your boot . ini file.
    
    * Find your Boot_ini located usually on the C:.
    If you cannot see it, you probably have system files hidden, then follow these instructions at microsoft (also uncheck “hide protected operating system files”)
    * Right click on the boot_ini and choose properties. Uncheck “read only”
    * Open the boot_ini by double clicking it.
    * Under the section called find the line that says “multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS=”Windows XP Professional…”. Yours may look a bit different. We are going to make a duplicate, so that if you make a mistake you will not harm yourself from booting into your computer. Drag you’re mouse across the entire line, right click and choose copy. Then right below the line you just copied right click your mouse and choose paste. You should now have two lines one after another that are exact duplicates.
    * Change the bottom line that you just copied with the following addition on the end. Add a space at the end of the line and then this without the quotes “/3GB /USERVA=2500?
    * In that lower boot entry you just made, find the name of the operating system in quotes and change it to something like “Windows XP 3GB”, so you can differentiate at boot up.
    * Close and save the boot_ini.
    * Right click on the boot_ini, hit properties, check read only.
    
    NOTE: I have never really ever suffered this on my machines (plural) but I wanted to record this for those who do so it would not be lost.
    
    Edit: This was edited to include XP instructions.
    
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    and yes, I had that copied to a notepad for future references, though that was against zoning issues if I recall.

  17. #17
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menethenes View Post
    So my gaming computer died a while back and I was forced to unearth an old single core XP system I had built years ago. I also recently started DDO up again. It runs tolerably well.. but one thing amazes me.. every now and then I get a blue screen of death and a reboot! In 2014! I thought that blue screen nonsense was ancient history back before XP even came out. My wife with a slightly newer dual core system started having the same problem when she joined me in DDO. Can DDO really be using such outdated code? I can play WoW, Rift, DC Universe and LOTRO on this computer with no problems of this kind at all.

    Yes, yes, I know. Need to buy a new computer. But in the meantime, any advice? What do you think is the most likely problem, maybe an audio conflict? Any help would be appreciated.
    Memory leaks? Unlikely.

    Blue Screen O Death is generally a driver problem - most likely your video card. If the driver tries to access an invalid memory area in the inner core of the system, this is what you get. Most Windows app from XP on run in a client mode on the processor where the access to stuff that can cause protected mode faults like this is nearly impossible. However, it will happen if you're trying to access a driver that is flakey.

    Get the latest driver for your video card and try that. The other drivers in the system are less likely to cause this kind of fault.

    I mean, I have seen it when USB ports start to whig-out, or when you have a bad chunk of memory somewhere. However, if you and another person are having the same problem, the most likely cause in this case would be video as it is highly unlikely that both systems would have a bad memory SIMM causing the same problem.

    Remember, DDO uses stuff like DirectX which is VERY reliant on video card drivers.

  18. #18
    Editor, The Book of Syncletica: An unofficial DDO Monk Guide, and Stormreach Shadows: An unofficial DDO Stealth Guide
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  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Menethenes View Post
    Well thanks for the advice. And why dont you refrain from posting a response at all if you cant avoid insulting another player.

    While his comments were colorful, I would not really consider them insulting.

    He basically said

    'If ya cant do basic troubleshooting, your going to waste a lot of yours, and ours, time on this. I advise to deal with the occasional blue screens, or buy a new computer'

    I concur.

    You provides zero information about this machine. No crash reports. No DXDiag report.

    Nobody can troubleshoot anything without that kind of info.

    People like to blame everything in DDO on "Memory leaks" but truth be told, Memory leaks rarely cause blue screens, and actually are rarely the cause of a crash even.

    If you really want to spend time messing with this, please post some relevant info for us to work with. (Specs, DXDiag, crash logs)
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menethenes View Post
    So my gaming computer died a while back and I was forced to unearth an old single core XP system I had built years ago. I also recently started DDO up again. It runs tolerably well.. but one thing amazes me.. every now and then I get a blue screen of death and a reboot! In 2014! I thought that blue screen nonsense was ancient history back before XP even came out. My wife with a slightly newer dual core system started having the same problem when she joined me in DDO. Can DDO really be using such outdated code? I can play WoW, Rift, DC Universe and LOTRO on this computer with no problems of this kind at all.

    Yes, yes, I know. Need to buy a new computer. But in the meantime, any advice? What do you think is the most likely problem, maybe an audio conflict? Any help would be appreciated.
    Heh. Crashes cannot be completely prevented as long as physical hardware can break.

    Current computers are sufficiently complex that the root cause of some of these can not be found with a reasonable effort, for a game client.

    I remember one case at work, *one* application running on *one* server was producing really odd failures... turned out that a network card in a different server had a single cold-solder fault (the kind that start acting up only after having had time to oxidize) on a single connection, which caused the IP checksum offloading engine on that card to work wrong on packets formatted in a specific way, which just happened to be something cross-server that related to that particular application. (No system crash in that case though.)

    Was really convoluted to debug, too, and fortunately we had support contracts active for those from the vendors. Could've bought a fair number of new desktop systems with the amount of per-hour billing it'd have generated otherwise.


    Another thing that can cause hard-to-track crashes is if a storage device is getting wonky in a way that the builtin error correction doesn't handle or detect. Particularly nasty if it's otherwise intermittent but causes you to be unable to move that specific file to a different location on disk, too. (As in causes a crash when you try. Seen some of these too, over the years. Worst one was such that hitting the fault caused so much current draw through the disk cabling that it caused loss of operating power in parts of the mainboard. Still wonder that it didn't blow any fuses. That one I had to track down by myself...)
    Last edited by mna; 04-15-2014 at 03:06 PM.
    No longer completely f2p as of November 2014. Father of 3 more DDO players so far (I do have more children than that).

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