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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    If they just added in say a "Legendary" setting, named after idea that a 3rd+ TR is a "Legend" build.

    The step up would need to go:

    1st life - Normal
    2nd Life - Hard (as that is the hardest setting a 2nd life toon can open)
    3rd Life - Elite (Again, as this is the hardest setting a 3rd life toon can open)
    3rd+ - Legendary (This would also be available to ViP to open with any toon)

    The setting would be harder then Elite, with of course 1 time rest shrine, but also a 1 Time raise Shrine, with a step up in Mob/Trap Difficulty of course, gives ample EXP, and all that, No Loot to fill inventories, just Gold/Essences/Gems/Augments (You know, stuff we can put in bags), with the rare drop of AS.

    I could see that happening. That would reduce the grind (IE: More Exp) and Increase the Difficulty. They would need to make sure this setting was not for Raids, or End Quest Chains, which are already designed to be additionally challenging.

    Would it happen? No, too much work, and very little reward for Turbine, but it could become a workable idea in this direction.
    What if I told you this doesn't need much work?

    Legendary quests are already out there. There are a whole lot of epic versions of old heroic quests that I never see ran : Sentinels chain, for instance.

    For legendary quests, use the "epic template" of the quest and lower the CR of mobs appropriately.

    Give people who complete a legendary TR a cosmetic hat according to the class with which it was completed and the same benefits as a regular TR.

    Is it commercially sound? Why not!

    Make legendary quests free for VIP or sell them in bundles for non VIP. This should encourage subscription, which IMHO, is the clean non sketchy way of making business (non of this otto boxes, aka cheat boxes, or destiny keys or XP tomes or XP pots...seriously turbine! Take off the pickpocket costume!).

    Heroics are more fun than epics (for me, before some captain obvious pops up), there are more possible builds. Imagine beating epic quests on heroic characters. I call that the real epic!

    PS - If you wish make a side progression for the plot for legendary TRs...how about the underdark in heroic toons? :O
    Last edited by BigErkyKid; 04-15-2014 at 01:31 PM.

  2. #122
    Community Member Llewndyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    Dear forumites,

    We (people with multiple TRs on our backs) know that at some point a good chunk of this game becomes a grind. We TR because we like to experiment, play the game in different ways while still somehow building up strenght. At least that's my reason.

    However, I honestly dislike feeling that after the 2nd TR I really have to grind certain quests and I no longer have the freedom to choose what selection of quests to play. Having incredibly well geared characters just means that difficulty is no longer an issue, at least after you familiarize with the quests.

    For this reason, I think I would have more fun if future TRs required me to play at increasing difficulty rather than to play more. For instance:

    1. After the first TR, quest below hard difficulty give you -50% XP. After the 2nd, quest below elite give you -50%.

    2. Increase the difficulty above normal to reflect the power creep of TRing. Hard should be harder and elite should be WAY harder.

    Thoughts?

    IMPORTANT!

    If you are not interested in an OPTION (not compulsary, OPTIONAL!) to have a more challenging TR process, possibly paralel to the current one, fine. I honestly don´t need to hear how much you would despise what I am saying. But I am specifically interested in knowing if other people feel like me at all.




    PS -
    On another note, I would also suggest that if you play a quest more than 2 levels above it, no named loot can drop out of it. But that's a different discussion.
    For the record, with Turbine dropping the xp needed on a third life to 3.8 million, I've been capping before I finish with Vale. There's THAT much xp out there. That also means minimal Von 3/ Shadow Crypt (I only ran SC twice, and VON 3 3 times the last 3 lives)... heck even bothering with flagging for Litany isn't worth it unless you solo a lot.

    I'll say what probably has already been said though - Rather than make it harder for EVERYONE because it's too easy for you, could there possibly be another way to increase the challenge? Maybe run with only items you find in chests (no TR cache)? Permadeath? Only use Masterwork items? Classic D&D rules (nothing over +5 and one stat (I have no idea if this is classic D&D, I never played it, just offering a suggestion))?

    Every couple days one of these threads comes out, and it seems like the answer is right there in front of you but you struggle so hard to look around it... and trust me, I know how tough it can be to do things to challenge yourself when you don't have to!

    Although, to keep within your parameters of what a response should be, I could support a "Nightmare" mode, but then people would whine that it should give a lot more XP since it's so much harder, and the first time someone beats it we're right back where we are now, with people wanting tougher content. From the current state of the game, it seems the tools Turbine has to work with consist of:

    1. Bloat HP
    2. Blanket immunities
    3. bork physics so it's impossible to actually hit the mob (BAKTOOOORRR!!!!)

    I think what would make you happier would be to somehow increase the AI of mobs. Let me go all "slippery slope" on you, though, and take this to a POSSIBLE conclusion:

    A. Turbine listens. Enter Hiding in Plain Sight NIGHTMARE MODE!!!!?!!~ - Now the bugbears hide behind boxes, and use flanking tactics. The Oozes now have machetes, and spout lines from popular 90s action flicks. Is that arcane ooze smoking a cigar? THAT'S why they're green, it all makes sense!

    B. 75% of the people complaining that the game is too easy haven't logged into the game for more than a year, just complaining on the forums takes up a lot of time (not saying ANY of this is you).

    C. The other 25% log in and, rather than PUG it out, get a couple other people who will be discreet in case there's a wipe. They go in, start wailing on a CR 52 aurum caster, get murdered by the 3 CR 72^3 Iron Maiden Golem Dogs of Doom that were pretending to be boxes.

    D. This happens every time. Sometimes, in order to not have that happen, they break the boxes, and while that's going on the new randomtrap class rogue set up whirling blade traps that filets them the instant they finish.

    E. Those same people come back to the forums and complain that it's too hard and no one could possibly finish those quests and what was Turbine thinking and they'll cancel their sub and never play the game again

    F. Turbine fires the employees who worked on that code, even when those same employees were against doing it in the first place.

    G. Jean Claude Van-Damme stars in Expendables VII: Nursing Home Rampage

    H. People read my comment on this thread and realize I'm psychic
    Ghallanda - LLEWNDYN 27 Necro Wiz (completionist) + other random uncared for players - Blackmoor Defenders
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  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seikojin View Post
    EE demands more than a handful of lives. Just sayin.
    Demands it of whom? All EE demands is competent players.

  4. #124
    Community Member darkly_dreaming's Avatar
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    After reading through the thread I just don't see the point of coding a new, parallel TR system in Heroic.

    Heroic lives go very quickly for anyone with experience; combine that with the reduction in the 3rd + life xp curve there's not much 'grind' to speak of other than the inherent grind of going from 1 - 20 repeatedly. For those who want 'added difficulty' there are plenty of ways to self-handicap (Many of which have already been detailed). I've never seen the point to these types of 'suggestions' that require lots of developer time for the benefit of a relative few who could easily get the same effect with a little effort on their own part.
    Goddess, you know it baybee!
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  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkly_dreaming View Post
    After reading through the thread I just don't see the point of coding a new, parallel TR system in Heroic.

    Heroic lives go very quickly for anyone with experience; combine that with the reduction in the 3rd + life xp curve there's not much 'grind' to speak of other than the inherent grind of going from 1 - 20 repeatedly. For those who want 'added difficulty' there are plenty of ways to self-handicap (Many of which have already been detailed). I've never seen the point to these types of 'suggestions' that require lots of developer time for the benefit of a relative few who could easily get the same effect with a little effort on their own part.
    I find a good way to add a tiny bit of challenge and cut out a huge amount of grind is to simply not TR in the first place.

  6. #126
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Seams to me OP wants a new Legendary difficulty and some Ironman mode toggle.

    I say give it to the OP toggle on Ironman mode and all quests starting with Korthos are EE level if you die your character gets deleted. Maybe that difficulty will make them happy.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxarhamar View Post
    Seams to me OP wants a new Legendary difficulty and some Ironman mode toggle.

    I say give it to the OP toggle on Ironman mode and all quests starting with Korthos are EE level if you die your character gets deleted. Maybe that difficulty will make them happy.
    I think that this in the PVP arena of the forums counts as a "grazing hit".

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seikojin View Post
    I have yet to see an at level EE run go that easy, unless players had past lives to help bolster their abilities beyond what their incomplete gear and destiny did.

    Not saying Lam is the king of servers when it comes to player experience, however, again, it seemed more than a few PL's helped those who died frequently.
    Well I agree with Chai, the biggest gains from past lives are for DC casting.


    Some EEs go easy, some do not.
    I PUG a lot. Some players have past lives and great gear, some do not. Yes there is a difference, but I would argue that it has little to do with the past lives.


    For myself, agro control means more than anything else. If the group plays smart (and the dungeon allows) just fight a few at a time and you are fine.

    Heals are probably the next important thing.

    With DPS and defenses coming in next, at roughly equal proportions IMO.

    But way more is gained from epic destinies IMO, than past lives.
    ..and gear as well.

    My main is wearing a +10 resistance item..... from what I can see that is way more important than anything I would gain from past lives. (although I will give you that added to past lives would be a lot better)



    Anyway, EEs are really no different from any other quest. (assuming that people have actually played other quests and struggled....some of us have been here long enough to have considered Elite Butchers path extremely difficult.. and learned to use tactics to beat it.)
    by that I mean just play smart.... yes, it is easy when you can power through it... past lives help. But I think epic destinies and gear help more.
    But you can make it much easier by only fighting a few at a time... (which can be done in most fights, even many of those that most players think it cannot be done in.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  9. #129
    2015 DDO Players Council Seikojin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    Well I agree with Chai, the biggest gains from past lives are for DC casting.


    Some EEs go easy, some do not.
    I PUG a lot. Some players have past lives and great gear, some do not. Yes there is a difference, but I would argue that it has little to do with the past lives.


    For myself, agro control means more than anything else. If the group plays smart (and the dungeon allows) just fight a few at a time and you are fine.

    Heals are probably the next important thing.

    With DPS and defenses coming in next, at roughly equal proportions IMO.

    But way more is gained from epic destinies IMO, than past lives.
    ..and gear as well.

    My main is wearing a +10 resistance item..... from what I can see that is way more important than anything I would gain from past lives. (although I will give you that added to past lives would be a lot better)



    Anyway, EEs are really no different from any other quest. (assuming that people have actually played other quests and struggled....some of us have been here long enough to have considered Elite Butchers path extremely difficult.. and learned to use tactics to beat it.)
    by that I mean just play smart.... yes, it is easy when you can power through it... past lives help. But I think epic destinies and gear help more.
    But you can make it much easier by only fighting a few at a time... (which can be done in most fights, even many of those that most players think it cannot be done in.)
    True for sure! I tend to put on a pair of newbs first glasses when I discuss Elite difficulties: ie, if a new player got to cap, what would their experience be trying at level content on elite? And work from there towards better gear, better builds, and better experience.

  10. #130
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    What if I told you this doesn't need much work?

    Legendary quests are already out there. There are a whole lot of epic versions of old heroic quests that I never see ran : Sentinels chain, for instance.

    For legendary quests, use the "epic template" of the quest and lower the CR of mobs appropriately.

    Give people who complete a legendary TR a cosmetic hat according to the class with which it was completed and the same benefits as a regular TR.

    Is it commercially sound? Why not!

    Make legendary quests free for VIP or sell them in bundles for non VIP. This should encourage subscription, which IMHO, is the clean non sketchy way of making business (non of this otto boxes, aka cheat boxes, or destiny keys or XP tomes or XP pots...seriously turbine! Take off the pickpocket costume!).

    Heroics are more fun than epics (for me, before some captain obvious pops up), there are more possible builds. Imagine beating epic quests on heroic characters. I call that the real epic!

    PS - If you wish make a side progression for the plot for legendary TRs...how about the underdark in heroic toons? :O
    Ummm I don't quite follow this.

    You really lost me on the hat thing.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    Ummm I don't quite follow this.

    You really lost me on the hat thing.
    O.O

    You don't like hats? I am a hat person, I think that with the right face a hat can make a boring looking fellow look like a true charming gentleman.

    PS -

    On a more serious note, this discussion here reminds me of the threads on mergers. What is clear is that the game is drying out. I don't see people talking with each other and saying "Oh man I am really looking forward to my next TR. Boy how do I like zerging through the same old quests for the XTh time". What I see is people saying "Oh man I want to rock epics so I have to get a couple of extra DC for my stunning fist" or "My sorc isn't landing **** on those EE mobs so I am getting a couple of PL for the +DC on evocation". And then they TR into an iconic because you know epics and generally end game is where the action is.

    And why is that so? Why is everyone so crazy about epics and why do they want so hard to rock them? Well part of it is because it is a bunch of newer quests and I think that for the most part because it is a challenge. Yes, some people do not find it challenging anymore because they have figured out effective ways, but a large group of the playerbase still struggle to deal effectively with the true end game. I have see a ranged lad with top gear and 8 years on of DDO his back die many times against the end boss in outbreak...

    If someone comes to you and they say that they rock heroics everyone thinks meh...but seeing someone rock epics is still "ohh" inspiring

    What I think is that most people have given up completely in heroics and have figured out their way through them in as little time as possible with tomes, XP pots and what not. Now come and suggest any change whatsoever and they eat you alive. But the game is also heroics. New players come to heroics. They probably will want to TR too. How can it hurt to make that more fun?
    Last edited by BigErkyKid; 04-16-2014 at 02:41 AM.

  12. #132

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    I don't see people talking with each other and saying "Oh man I am really looking forward to my next TR. Boy how do I like zerging through the same old quests for the XTh time".
    I very much look forward to each TR, and I do not zerg through quests. I also don't skip quests.

    Epic levels are the slog for me; I just get in and get out as quickly as possible so I can get back to TRing into the heroic levels again, which is where the game is fun for me.

    Your proposals wouldn't make heroics "more fun."

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    I very much look forward to each TR, and I do not zerg through quests. I also don't skip quests.

    Epic levels are the slog for me; I just get in and get out as quickly as possible so I can get back to TRing into the heroic levels again, which is where the game is fun for me.

    Your proposals wouldn't make heroics "more fun."

    I check a lot of times during the week the player list in Argonessen. The majority of players are +15. The vast majority I dare say. Do the experiment yourself.

    You may like better heroics (and I know more people like you) but the majority do not seem to agree with you.

    If what is worthwile in Epics is the challenge, bringing the option of more challenge to heroics can only be good.

  14. #134
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    I check a lot of times during the week the player list in Argonessen. The majority of players are +15. The vast majority I dare say. Do the experiment yourself.

    You may like better heroics (and I know more people like you) but the majority do not seem to agree with you.

    If what is worthwile in Epics is the challenge, bringing the option of more challenge to heroics can only be good.
    Just because people are lvl 15+ doesnt mean they dont like heroics more.
    Ive been etring for 2 months now, and heroics are much better than epic quests.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    Just because people are lvl 15+ doesnt mean they dont like heroics more.
    Ive been etring for 2 months now, and heroics are much better than epic quests.
    I fail to wraps the logic. If they like heroics, why do they use iconic TRs that basically skip a large chunk of heroics?

    I think that the ultimate proof of wha they like is to see what they play.

  16. #136
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    I fail to wraps the logic. If they like heroics, why do they use iconic TRs that basically skip a large chunk of heroics?

    I think that the ultimate proof of wha they like is to see what they play.
    To get iconic past life before lvl cap goes to 30?

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    To get iconic past life before lvl cap goes to 30?
    So? People still see it as preferable. Proof: the majority of people are +15 lvl.

  18. #138
    Community Member darthhento's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    Proof: the majority of people are +15 lvl.
    And where did you get this information from?
    =$==$==$==$==$==$==$==ORIEN==$==$==$==$==$==$==$=
    Darthwolf **(?_?) Zendarth m(?_?m) Darthnoheals \(?_?)
    =$==$==$==$==$==$==House Do'Urden==$==$==$==$==$==$=

  19. #139
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Lol.
    Ofc its preferable because when lvl cap goes to 30 you will need like 1.5 more million xp to cap and itr.
    Actually no, you will need 3 million xp more, thats half that you need from 20-28 now.
    Last edited by Ivan_Milic; 04-16-2014 at 03:55 AM.

  20. #140
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darthhento View Post
    And where did you get this information from?
    From his extensive research.
    Checking who tab and lfm few times a day, thus coming to this conclusion.

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