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  1. #1
    Community Member Pehtis's Avatar
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    Default Purple Knight Dragon (PDK) - builds

    Recently bought the standard pack that included PDK iconic character. Rolled a new toon using the DDO predetermined path just to check them out. Clearly this is not a serious playable character (Turbine made sure of that with these highly questionable predetermined choices) to take into any high level content. I'm gonna troll play this character to epics just for a laugh. But I will like to roll another PDK that could be decent and are seeking suggestions.

    The charisma over strength racial with certain weapons intrigues me. They seem designed to be Stalwarts but with little useful love. Too bad Bastard Swords is not auto given or at least the feat be part of racial tree. As a multi seems possible charisma based Warchanter 18/2 build swinging a great sword. Even a pally split might be good but dunno best combo. Considered charisma based light monk with short sword usage but dunno.

    Can someone give useful build ideas for iconic PDK. Links to threads are welcome.
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  2. #2
    Community Member Riekan's Avatar
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    I'm working on a 8 Fighter/6 Paladin/6 Monk build, running centered with dual Nightmares in Kensai and 25% incorporeal from Ninja Spy. I am using the charisma to hit and damage. Still only 21 so not sure how the self healing with Nightmares will be but so far isn't too bad of a build. I need to get to about 25 to get some solid gear on him to see how playable he will be in epics, but his saves are through the roof and his lay on hands hit for about 800 apiece.
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  3. #3
    Community Member Pehtis's Avatar
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    Tried reincarnate with the default wood they give you on creation but found unable to avoid Fighter a first level. Is it possible to select purple knight iconic and choose NOT to have level 1 as fighte?
    Many of life's lessons are taught through games. So GAME ON!
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pehtis View Post
    Tried reincarnate with the default wood they give you on creation but found unable to avoid Fighter a first level. Is it possible to select purple knight iconic and choose NOT to have level 1 as fighte?
    The default heart of wood doesn't let you change classes it only lets you redistribute stats, skills, and re-choose feats. You need at least a LR+1 to change the 1 level of fighter.

  5. #5
    Uber Completionist Astarii's Avatar
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    It such a problem using a heart wood on an iconic!

  6. #6
    Community Member Riekan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astarii View Post
    It such a problem using a heart wood on an iconic!
    All iconic classes have a preferred class that is required at level 1. Every time you TR into an iconic you are stuck with whatever that first class is. After level 1 you can choose whatever class you want from level 2 forward. The only way to change the level 1 class is to use a LR +1 to swap out that first level.
    Proud Officer of the Guild of the Black Dragon on Sarlona.

  7. #7
    Community Member dng242's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    I have built a few variants of the PDK, Pal/Ftr, Brd/Rog/Ftr, Pure. What I have found is they make a fine human.

    The draw of the PDK is Cormyrean Knight Training and the rest of that line that replaces the Human Dragon Mark line. The problem is it is very unusable. The aura bonuses and the once a rest heal are way to limited for the cost. The Cormyrean Knight Training is a great cost, but very hard to use. The reason is that is has no synergy with the rest of the game. Many of the feats you want (Power attack, Two-Handed fighting, overwhelming crit, etc) have str requirements. Many of the enhancement you can take (Ftr - Kensei Power surge; Ftr/Paly defense lines, fvs/clr - divine might; Bard - Skaldic Rage ; Barbarian - Rage) give bonuses to strength, not to damage, not to charisma. Combine this with the very limited selection of weapons you can use and it's just not all that useful of a choice.

    The only place this ability seems useful is with non-melee builds (FvS; Bard; Cleric) where you want some melee ability, but are focused in another area (of course you may have to +1 heart the ftr level out).

    Granted if they could benefit from the feats/str bonuses while still driving off of Charisma, I think you would find every Melee would be a /2 Pally

    But, they are a human, thus if you aren't going to use the Cormyrean line or the Dragon Mark line then just build them like any other human and you will be just fine.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by dng242 View Post
    I have built a few variants of the PDK, Pal/Ftr, Brd/Rog/Ftr, Pure. What I have found is they make a fine human.

    The draw of the PDK is Cormyrean Knight Training and the rest of that line that replaces the Human Dragon Mark line. The problem is it is very unusable. The aura bonuses and the once a rest heal are way to limited for the cost. The Cormyrean Knight Training is a great cost, but very hard to use. The reason is that is has no synergy with the rest of the game. Many of the feats you want (Power attack, Two-Handed fighting, overwhelming crit, etc) have str requirements. Many of the enhancement you can take (Ftr - Kensei Power surge; Ftr/Paly defense lines, fvs/clr - divine might; Bard - Skaldic Rage ; Barbarian - Rage) give bonuses to strength, not to damage, not to charisma. Combine this with the very limited selection of weapons you can use and it's just not all that useful of a choice.

    The only place this ability seems useful is with non-melee builds (FvS; Bard; Cleric) where you want some melee ability, but are focused in another area (of course you may have to +1 heart the ftr level out).

    Granted if they could benefit from the feats/str bonuses while still driving off of Charisma, I think you would find every Melee would be a /2 Pally

    But, they are a human, thus if you aren't going to use the Cormyrean line or the Dragon Mark line then just build them like any other human and you will be just fine.
    Indeed. It's similar to dex-for-damage - in most cases it's just a trap. If you wan't an EK type build, you're
    better off pumping strength and having moderate charisma for saves and Divine Might (assuming Paladin
    splash). High base strength (needed for OC anyway) + Divine Might + Tenser's can give pretty high strength
    with a balanced initial point investment - rather than min-maxed.

  9. #9
    Community Member temp42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dng242 View Post
    I have built a few variants of the PDK, Pal/Ftr, Brd/Rog/Ftr, Pure. What I have found is they make a fine human.

    The draw of the PDK is Cormyrean Knight Training and the rest of that line that replaces the Human Dragon Mark line. The problem is it is very unusable. The aura bonuses and the once a rest heal are way to limited for the cost. The Cormyrean Knight Training is a great cost, but very hard to use. The reason is that is has no synergy with the rest of the game. Many of the feats you want (Power attack, Two-Handed fighting, overwhelming crit, etc) have str requirements. Many of the enhancement you can take (Ftr - Kensei Power surge; Ftr/Paly defense lines, fvs/clr - divine might; Bard - Skaldic Rage ; Barbarian - Rage) give bonuses to strength, not to damage, not to charisma. Combine this with the very limited selection of weapons you can use and it's just not all that useful of a choice.

    The only place this ability seems useful is with non-melee builds (FvS; Bard; Cleric) where you want some melee ability, but are focused in another area (of course you may have to +1 heart the ftr level out).

    Granted if they could benefit from the feats/str bonuses while still driving off of Charisma, I think you would find every Melee would be a /2 Pally

    But, they are a human, thus if you aren't going to use the Cormyrean line or the Dragon Mark line then just build them like any other human and you will be just fine.
    They dont even work too well with Fvs/cleric lines, since they are required to follow Amaunator, and have a mace as a preferred weapon, so they have to pick between cha to attack/dam or the righteous weapons bonus line in warpriest. Between that and divine might, its pretty pointless. You will want at least a 13 strength for feats vs an 18 cha to start, and with 5 level up boosts, you are only looking at a 10 point difference in the two stats, 5 if you have divine might, and 5 more from the righteous weapons tree and you arent really doing yourself any favors. Its only moderate value in that build was to save points if you didnt want to go deep into warpriest tree.

    I made a passable Eldrich knight sorc with him though, which is kind of fun, but I doubt my ability to actually be effective at higher levels.

    Its sad too, because I really want to like that ability, but I have trouble with it. I wanted to make a sorc/fvs/pally2 melee character, but the synergy really breaks down so it isnt worth wasting a heart to try it out.

  10. #10
    Community Member Cardtrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by temp42 View Post
    They dont even work too well with Fvs/cleric lines, since they are required to follow Amaunator, and have a mace as a preferred weapon, so they have to pick between cha to attack/dam or the righteous weapons bonus line in warpriest.
    Although going for direct damage light-based PDK pure 20 favored soul is certainly intriguing; due to worshipping Amaunator, they get Sun Bolt as a free SLA. If it wasn't for the required LR+1, I would probably already have rolled one up.
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  11. #11
    Community Member Pehtis's Avatar
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    After several years of playing I am getting the impression the Dev's who create these new characters don't play DDO much. If this is what they did with PDK iconic hero (which is mostly a fail), I am very pleased I didn't spend my real money on the expanded pack to get the other iconic heroes.

    Might make a useful high level mule on a new server I might want to run other some builds. Basically start at level 15 and zerg the lower stuff to feed these new toons.

    It's a real pity.
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  12. #12
    Community Member Emizand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pehtis View Post
    After several years of playing I am getting the impression the Dev's who create these new characters don't play DDO much. If this is what they did with PDK iconic hero (which is mostly a fail), I am very pleased I didn't spend my real money on the expanded pack to get the other iconic heroes.

    Might make a useful high level mule on a new server I might want to run other some builds. Basically start at level 15 and zerg the lower stuff to feed these new toons.

    It's a real pity.
    Starting at level 15 is a huge bonus for some.

  13. #13
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    I think pdk's make pretty good melee bards, example here

  14. #14
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    An interesting build i was thinking of trying was a max charisma stun bot bard, using the new improved soundburst. You could splash 6 fighter for the melee bonuses from that, as well as some extra feats which would allow you to two time between melee and what was needed to make the soundburst work.

    Some form of Eldritch knight sorcerer seems workable. Being able to reliably hold enemies before you start beating on them should more than offset any differences between maximum strength and charisma scores achievable.

    Of course, somebody will say there is no way these builds can be made end game viable, and they're probably right. What are there, maybe 4 or 5 builds right now that shine above the rest? Maybe some slight variations on them. Compared to those, is anything else end game viable? Guess it depends on what you mean by viable. By my definition, viable and optimal aren't the same thing.

  15. #15
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    I have been doing a Fighter 1 Paladin 19 PDK, and I am happy so far.

    Pallies really need 3 attributes: Strength (for combat), Constitution (for survivability) and Charisma (for Lay on hands, Smite Evil and saves). Wisdom can be taken care off by items.

    S&B intimitank wielding Celestia is pretty viable, I reach 1000 HP (not peak, walking around HP), high Charisma means I can easily intimidate a lot of monsters, and with the Knight Training line, I only need 13 strength for Power Attack, so I am free to max out Charisma. I can heal myself back to full health 10 times a rest, plus extra times since Lay on hands regenerate with the Unyielding Sentinel ED, plus one time giving the full party around me one minute long +13 buff to attack and damage rolls (very effective against bosses), and with the right enhancements, I generate 200% more threat than my DPS would indicate. I am unkillable, and once I cap Sentinel, I'll be able to resurrect (not raise dead, resurrect) my friends quite a few times, meaning even a near TPK where I am the sole survivor could be turned on it's head very fast. I reached level 24, and I can tell the build is very workable. I could get even more aggro if I use my free heart for a +3% doublestrike chance.

  16. #16
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
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    I've got a PDK bard/rogue and it's pretty much the best "bard" I've played in the game. Too many builds sacrifice much of what a bard is supposed to be. The PDK bard allows max cha for potentially useful DCs, while still providing a degree of melee that is rivaled only by bard builds that dump cha. So it's a nice compromise between all out melee bard with limited bard abilities, and goofy buff bot that serves no real purpose beyond buffing and backup healing.

    The "For Cormyr" racial enhancement is very bard like, offering the cha bonus to you and the whole party for a short period. It is however, very expensive and generally of limited use with the 50% hp activation requirement. In EEs, you rarely get to 50% hp unless you are milliseconds away from being dead, and there's almost no way to mitigate it if someone else is healing the party with bursts, etc. I pretty much only use it solo for boss fights. Sadly, and somewhat ironically, most of the bard stuff is lost in groups these days with the focus on min/max. Even CC is generally useless as most of the mobs are dead before I can cast a quickened disco ball, and the only time the fight lasts more than 10 seconds is with bosses, which bards have no ability to affect at all, other than melee.

    It is a fun flavor build that can be built to be useful in EE raids, especially with gear and pls. (Pay a great deal of attention to defenses as the bard gets nothing in saves, armor, PRR, evasion, hps, or anything else to make it particularly survivable) It is also a great destiny farmer as there are only two destinies that it doesn't do well in. (GMF and Shadowdancer) Everything else gives at least workable abilities. I haven't found a single quest I can't solo on Epic Hard, and there's a great deal that can be done on EE. The only real issue for soloing EE is whether or not there are mobs that can't be controlled or stunned, like the plant creatures in DD. Boss fights can take a while, but are mostly doable.

    It's a fun class and a nice break from the yellow bar cookie cutter builds.

  17. #17
    Community Member painkiller3's Avatar
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    I used this for 17 cleric/2 paladin/1 fighter but used the enhancements like a human...the big bonus was the 3prr from the iconic past life

  18. #18
    Community Member Red_Knight's Avatar
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    Here's a related question. I've been looking over the eldrich knight line for sorcerers. Would a purple knight build of 2 fighter/18 sorc using eldrich knight be viable? I'm thinking 13 str for power attack, good dex and con, maxed charisma for the build. And then maybe picking up bastard sword proficiency.
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  19. #19
    Founder xberto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riekan View Post
    I'm working on a 8 Fighter/6 Paladin/6 Monk build, running centered with dual Nightmares in Kensai and 25% incorporeal from Ninja Spy. I am using the charisma to hit and damage. Still only 21 so not sure how the self healing with Nightmares will be but so far isn't too bad of a build. I need to get to about 25 to get some solid gear on him to see how playable he will be in epics, but his saves are through the roof and his lay on hands hit for about 800 apiece.
    How that build work out for you? I went 9 monk/8 fighter/3 pally and he does ok. He's been lvl 28 for a while. Hes fun to play and looks cool swinging them big black blades. but not the greatest performance wise. The Nightmares keep you topped off in light combat but not when thing get heavy. I need to be careful with agro. I may try same concept again but maybe something with better self healing.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sumia View Post
    I have been doing a Fighter 1 Paladin 19 PDK, and I am happy so far.

    Pallies really need 3 attributes: Strength (for combat), Constitution (for survivability) and Charisma (for Lay on hands, Smite Evil and saves). Wisdom can be taken care off by items.

    S&B intimitank wielding Celestia is pretty viable, I reach 1000 HP (not peak, walking around HP), high Charisma means I can easily intimidate a lot of monsters, and with the Knight Training line, I only need 13 strength for Power Attack, so I am free to max out Charisma. I can heal myself back to full health 10 times a rest, plus extra times since Lay on hands regenerate with the Unyielding Sentinel ED, plus one time giving the full party around me one minute long +13 buff to attack and damage rolls (very effective against bosses), and with the right enhancements, I generate 200% more threat than my DPS would indicate. I am unkillable, and once I cap Sentinel, I'll be able to resurrect (not raise dead, resurrect) my friends quite a few times, meaning even a near TPK where I am the sole survivor could be turned on it's head very fast. I reached level 24, and I can tell the build is very workable. I could get even more aggro if I use my free heart for a +3% doublestrike chance.

    I've been thinking about a Cleric15/Pal3/Fgt2 as a S&B Intimitank, but I can't quite get from concept to reality. What lines are going to be best?

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