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  1. #21
    Founder Dorian's Avatar
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    Man, after reading this and the other threads... I'm so glad I went with energy criticals instead of colors of the queen.

    At least the won't be slowing nerf'ing spell crits like they are doing to rainbow/colors.
    Dorian

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandir View Post
    Because a lot of people don't find randomly getting one shot or buffing the mobs all that fun and the ED past life will just not be used/shiradis have to turn of one their signature abilities.

    They don't need to be all positive, they should just not be negative. Throw in all kinds of fun but completely pointless stuff with the positives. Seems pointless silly things is something that fey would enjoy anyways.
    I'm even ok with negative. It is catastrophic which is stupid.

    My procs sometimes heal, that is fine. My procs sometimes do silly stuff and that is "negative" because there was an opportunity cost (time to cast the spell, no other damage proc, additional time the mob will be alive, additional resources needed to finish it off). These are minor, but non positive outcomes. I can even deal with radiant shield although it is pretty bad on a boss/raid. Proc the shield spell if it would shut the nerf crowd up, proc haste... these are negative but not catastrophic.

    Adrenaline is simply too much. I spam chain missile all over the room, who knows how many poor melee that I thought was squishy simply got the rainbow. On two different occasions, I've been one shot by a far larger than normal hit of damage. I didn't have the examine window up, so I can't say 100% it was adrenaline... but if I have 37 PRR, 200% fort and not I'm not in a helpless state... should the spinner hit me for 755? This is a mob that needs to be lead back to the center of the quest and kept in that general area... i'm already jump circle strafing... but she is going to get some attacks in... and some of those attacks will get past displace/dodge/incorp. Autofail is not fun (and yeah, I'm working on getting more hp, but I was a low 20s wiz at the time).

  3. #23
    Community Member MoonlitSilver's Avatar
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    Paying 6, 12, or 18 million xp to empower my enemies to one-shot me seems... wrong. Regardless of lore.

    It would be nice if fast healing was actually fast enough to matter, so I'd have a feasible option other than Colors.
    Furthermore, I believe that the bugs and lag must be fixed.

  4. #24
    Community Member Daitengu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonlitSilver View Post
    Paying 6, 12, or 18 million xp to empower my enemies to one-shot me seems... wrong. Regardless of lore.
    Then why people do it? It was very clear from the description that there would be negative outcomes.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daitengu View Post
    Then why people do it? It was very clear from the description that there would be negative outcomes.
    No it was not. In the lama is section of the forums it was clearly stated by the devs that colors of the queen be random effects but mostly additional damage procs. To be honest when I first looked at it I was hoping for something different from the double rainbow procs. It wasn't bad at first either, but to honest when they added that radiant force field thing in, CotQ became very erratic. I see way less damage procs now. It seems like a 3rd of the procs are negative or additional effects. TBH I feel like you are more likely to have seen negative effects from CotQ such as adrenaline and the now removed radiant force field than double rainbow. Which is silly since you only proc every 10 secs instead of multiple time a second.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daitengu View Post
    Then why people do it? It was very clear from the description that there would be negative outcomes.
    Well the description in brackets reads something like "The effects will be mostly debuffs or extra damage to the monsters".
    Maybe they should have clarified that it actually means it gives abilities to the monsters so they do extra damage, and that the debuffs means debuffs to you.
    Probably a case of miscommunication.

    Honestly at this point i don't care if it's changed in the end i don't notice cotq not being there so much.
    It's just silly to have an ability that nearly no one uses and where people that have it are actually asked in groups to turn it off or just not invited for that matter.

  7. #27
    Community Member Daitengu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandir View Post
    Well the description in brackets reads something like "The effects will be mostly debuffs or extra damage to the monsters".
    Errm, you notice the word mostly in there? And then combining that with Shiradi where the Queen can debuff you ...

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daitengu View Post
    Errm, you notice the word mostly in there? And then combining that with Shiradi where the Queen can debuff you ...
    Yeah i was exaggerating. The point is that it indeed was not spelled out how negative the bad effects can get for you. Notice that no one really complained about the mobs getting randomly healed once in a while for example.

  9. #29
    Community Member bbqzor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daitengu View Post
    Then why people do it? It was very clear from the description that there would be negative outcomes.
    Because when it went live originally it did not have this particular effect. Which is one so great that to have consistent play you have to disable the feat/destiny. Which people have already invested 18 million xp in, and taken at the opportunity cost of NOT taking one of the other two feats.

    You obviously dont have this, or dont play with people who do. If you did, you would understand the problem and not be asking. Its that players spent 18 million XP on something, then turbine went and added an effect so negative the ability is essentially unplayable in anything challenging, which defeats the purpose of having it and makes all that time/xp a waste. They need to remove the effect so that it is again useable in all content as it should be for an investment so large.

    No one is saying it cannot have any negative effects ever. They are saying it cannot have one singular negative effect so great it outweighs the entire ability. If you dont regularly play EH/EE with people who have/use this, then maybe you dont see that its not people complaining to complain, its a legitimate concern. I am tired of having to mention "hey turn off your main destiny and 18mil xp worth of past lives so this raid boss doesnt oneshot the tank" every raid.

    As mentioned before, here and in threads before 21.1, adrenaline is not an appropriate random effect and needs to be removed. End of story. And any developer should know better, this thread shouldnt even need to exist. The portions of the game which are challenging, few though they may be, cannot handle such a large random element which becomes entirely too disruptive to game play, and thats just bad game design. Fix it.

  10. #30
    2015 DDO Players Council Seikojin's Avatar
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    A good harmful effect would be reversal of damage. So the enemy now is healed by all the damage for a short time instead of harmed. That would make people stop, change up and then resume.

  11. #31
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    Good negative effects can only be those which can't hurt (or even kill) other players directly. Placing yourself at risk due to fey magic is ok, although no "sure death" stuff please. Limited buffs to the mob makes life harder for the whole party but limits can be set in a reasonable way. Maybe with different opinions about the right limit. ;-)

    Effects I'd consider as fine: slow/paralyze/flesh to stone/dispell or other debuffs on the one using fey magic.

    Mediocre: healing mob (hurts full party), buffs like shield/deathward/absorption. Those can hinder other party members as well, but unless your caster is a one trick pony, protection against one kind of attack is avoidable.

    Bad: damage increasers, bomb/trap which can kill others or stuff like the Radiant Forcefield. Debuff to all melee damage when some classes don't have other options is far worse then Shield stopping MM spam.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagantor View Post
    Good negative effects can only be those which can't hurt (or even kill) other players directly. Placing yourself at risk due to fey magic is ok, although no "sure death" stuff please. Limited buffs to the mob makes life harder for the whole party but limits can be set in a reasonable way. Maybe with different opinions about the right limit. ;-)

    Effects I'd consider as fine: slow/paralyze/flesh to stone/dispell or other debuffs on the one using fey magic.

    Mediocre: healing mob (hurts full party), buffs like shield/deathward/absorption. Those can hinder other party members as well, but unless your caster is a one trick pony, protection against one kind of attack is avoidable.

    Bad: damage increasers, bomb/trap which can kill others or stuff like the Radiant Forcefield. Debuff to all melee damage when some classes don't have other options is far worse then Shield stopping MM spam.
    A negative effect I could live with is one that makes it worth using. Nothing less. If any negative outweighs the best positive, it's a fail. If there are an equal number of negatives to positives that also makes it useless. Personally I would rather just an additional damage flag every time or just replace this idiotic past live feat for seething useful.

  13. #33
    Community Member Noctus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbqzor View Post
    Because when it went live originally it did not have this particular effect. Which is one so great that to have consistent play you have to disable the feat/destiny. Which people have already invested 18 million xp in, and taken at the opportunity cost of NOT taking one of the other two feats.

    You obviously dont have this, or dont play with people who do. If you did, you would understand the problem and not be asking. Its that players spent 18 million XP on something, then turbine went and added an effect so negative the ability is essentially unplayable in anything challenging, which defeats the purpose of having it and makes all that time/xp a waste. They need to remove the effect so that it is again useable in all content as it should be for an investment so large.

    No one is saying it cannot have any negative effects ever. They are saying it cannot have one singular negative effect so great it outweighs the entire ability. If you dont regularly play EH/EE with people who have/use this, then maybe you dont see that its not people complaining to complain, its a legitimate concern. I am tired of having to mention "hey turn off your main destiny and 18mil xp worth of past lives so this raid boss doesnt oneshot the tank" every raid.

    As mentioned before, here and in threads before 21.1, adrenaline is not an appropriate random effect and needs to be removed. End of story. And any developer should know better, this thread shouldnt even need to exist. The portions of the game which are challenging, few though they may be, cannot handle such a large random element which becomes entirely too disruptive to game play, and thats just bad game design. Fix it.

    /this

    About a thousandfivehundred times!

    Remove this "TroloLoooL - Your dead!"-effect from the list of possible effects! Its totally anti-fun and leaves the primal sphere without any PL for a melee, as it simply removed the CotQ-PL from the list of viable PLs.
    Last edited by Noctus; 04-10-2014 at 08:35 AM.
    Erzskalde (Warchanter) / Erzmarschall (melee FvS) / Erzsoldat (waiting for TR-time) / Erzschmied (ranged Artificer)

    AOK - From Argonnessen

  14. #34
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    I still didnt notice adrenaline proccing from colors, but I did see it from shiradi.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seikojin View Post
    A good harmful effect would be reversal of damage. So the enemy now is healed by all the damage for a short time instead of harmed. That would make people stop, change up and then resume.
    This would not be a good effect.

    1.) There are several places in the game where you are up against a timer to kill a mob or group of mobs. The effect you describe would be an auto-lose in those situations.
    2.) Your negative effect griefs the rest of the party. If turbine keeps griefing parties for accepting shiradi/cotq builds then less parties will take them.
    3.) Absolute immunity is not balance and is too simple. If you suggested an increase in PRR or elemental resistance to one element... that would at least allow the party to adjust. Calling time out for the entire party is basically asking them to not play the game for 10-15 seconds until the "bad-idea" buff wears off.

    With so many easy gag-buffs, why do we keep coming back to over the top ones?

  16. #36
    Community Member Tinco's Avatar
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    All enemy buffing effects should simply be replaced by debuffs on the caster himself like Flesh to Stone, Hold, Fear, Exhaustion, Slow, Enervation, Curse and of course Virulent Mummy Rot. I don't mind the occasional funny Guild-PK by an exploding barrel of ham in like 95% of content I play, but It's a bad concept in PUGs and 'serious' EE play.
    The best days are the days you don't have to wear socks or shoes.

  17. #37
    The Hatchery danotmano1998's Avatar
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    Now that the anti-damage bubble has supposedly been removed, Adrenaline should also be removed.

    Just to be clear, Turbine, Nobody wants to spend 6 million plus xp on any feat that buffs the enemy or makes them HARDER to kill.
    The whole point of the past lifes is MORE power, not less. Come on, you guys already know this, right?

    Don't reward time spent playing the game with negative effects. It's just poor form. A funny inconsequential penalty now and then, sure. NOT adrenaline.

    Please remove this AND ALL SIMILAR enemy superbuffs from the possible list of effects a past life can proc.
    Thanks!
    <-Curelite Bottling Company->

    Quote Originally Posted by Chilldude
    Dude, did you see they way that guy just pressed button 1? It was amazing! A display of skill unseen since the 1984 World Games where in the men's room, between events, a man washed his hands with such unbridled majesty that people were claiming the faucet he used was OP.

  18. #38
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadCookieQueen View Post
    Oh wait...let me guess...because this isn't D&D...funny thing about that:




    So yeah...I can use the PnP as a baseline for my arguments, I can discuss how things in DDO mash up to the lores and rules and why things are the way they are. It doesn't invalidate my argument, it only gives another side as why somethings are like this because...like it or not...DDO is D&D*

    One last time:



    *in many many respects, sure for computer online play they had to adjust a few things to make the D&D mechanics work for an MMO and some of it they had to drop (like Bardic Knowledge for instance...awesome for roleplay not so much for MMO combat)..so yes I'm aware of the changes between the systems and that not everything can work...but DDO is built on D&D 3.5
    DDO is not D&D.

    It's sort of loosely based on it and then took off in some strange direction.

  19. #39
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbqzor View Post
    Because when it went live originally it did not have this particular effect. Which is one so great that to have consistent play you have to disable the feat/destiny. Which people have already invested 18 million xp in, and taken at the opportunity cost of NOT taking one of the other two feats.

    You obviously dont have this, or dont play with people who do. If you did, you would understand the problem and not be asking. Its that players spent 18 million XP on something, then turbine went and added an effect so negative the ability is essentially unplayable in anything challenging, which defeats the purpose of having it and makes all that time/xp a waste. They need to remove the effect so that it is again useable in all content as it should be for an investment so large.

    No one is saying it cannot have any negative effects ever. They are saying it cannot have one singular negative effect so great it outweighs the entire ability. If you dont regularly play EH/EE with people who have/use this, then maybe you dont see that its not people complaining to complain, its a legitimate concern. I am tired of having to mention "hey turn off your main destiny and 18mil xp worth of past lives so this raid boss doesnt oneshot the tank" every raid.

    As mentioned before, here and in threads before 21.1, adrenaline is not an appropriate random effect and needs to be removed. End of story. And any developer should know better, this thread shouldnt even need to exist. The portions of the game which are challenging, few though they may be, cannot handle such a large random element which becomes entirely too disruptive to game play, and thats just bad game design. Fix it.
    Absolutely.

    Clearly whoever came up with the radiant forcefield and adrenaline procs from shiradi didn't 'know better' and ... failed their wisdom check.

  20. #40
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinco View Post
    I don't mind the occasional funny Guild-PK by an exploding barrel of ham in like 95% of content I play, but It's a bad concept in PUGs and 'serious' EE play.
    What does PK mean here?

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