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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nayus View Post
    The Otto's Box IMHO was a great move for those people who wouldn't mind taking some cash off their wallets to get this burden off their back, but if you already did the bad move and leveled that burden to high levels... wasting an entire Otto's Box for that is almost unthinkable.
    Agreed I would love a 1mil XP stone option. I've spent the last week being bored of leveling a TR its too late to use a stone but damn I'm bored of leveling.

    I've enjoyed the journey many a time, I have 16 alts most of which are capped and in various states of TR, or epic levels. I'm sure in a few months or so I'll level through heroic again and enjoy it but right now, I don't care, and would like to get capped and run Thunderholme on my current toon... I could run it on others but this ones specced to mess up some thunderholme. a 1mil XP stone with no box stuff at say 1995tp would be perfect.
    *Disclaimer: All statements are generalized without boging down in minutia. Assuming that there are ALWAYS exceptions that test the rule, variations, and un-stated details may be omitted for brevity. These can be assumed to be understood; without bloating my posts with preemptive coverass. [*] Seal[*] Scroll[*] Shard[*] Base Item - eSoS >200 runs

  2. #22
    Community Member icekinslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    its also about not having time to play and wanting to get past lives and build points without any effort than swiping a credit card.
    and that affects your life how?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by icekinslayer View Post
    hey mr. triple completionist, turbine sells this stuff in the store, so why would you tell him to go play another game? kind of rude, don't you think?
    Read what I wrote again.

    You'll see that I simply offered a suggestion to anyone who thinks they are entitled to things they haven't earned, who think it's acceptable to advance in the game by not playing the game.

    Understand now? No apology required.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nayus View Post
    ...make Voice of the Master a saves-only item.

    Then count how many minutes have passed before all the rage threads.
    Hell yeah, I'ld be ****ed off! That +1 Luck bonus is supposed to be for Saves, Attack, Damage and Skill checks; plus with out the True Seeing effect when paired with the Cloak how am I supposed to find the right Mark in Partycrashers?

    As for the rest...
    Quote Originally Posted by Nayus View Post
    Remove all xp/slayer elixirs,{I only use what I loot, never bought a single one} the 50% xp book,{I have the lesser version that came with my MotU prepurchase, but could live without it} the XP guild shrine{again, it's nice but I managed to TR without it before it was introduced - and there's even less XP required now so...}
    ...Meh
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  5. #25
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by icekinslayer View Post
    and that affects your life how?
    it doesn't affect my life in any way. what it does affect is trying to get groups together to run quests. when stones are in the store, it gets tougher.

  6. #26
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    I'm pretty sure if the numbers are looked at then we'll see that they get more revenue from VIP subscribers than anything.
    Which is why they went to a model allowing players to buy content. Oh wait, that's right... they did so because VIP was not sufficient by itself to maintain this game. As much as you'd like to believe VIP is maintaining the game, the majority of players I encounter and know are not VIP. Further a fair portion of those players are spending typically in three months what would keep a single player subscribed for an entire year.

    As for long term costs, the longer a Premium player sticks around the more it costs in terms of server usage. So having them appear, spend, and leave can actually be beneficial to Turbine so long as there are enough players to maintain a healthy player base. Which from my experience of using the various options available (LFMs, user channels, guilds, etc - aka not limiting yourself to one method), is mostly sufficient for the bigger servers.
    Last edited by Ryiah; 04-05-2014 at 09:17 PM.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Hell, why bother with the store at all? Just add a "$pend $hard$ to level up" option to all the trainers; that way people can pay not to play as much of the game as they want, when ever they want. Pfft, actually you're playing the game?! Ha! You fell for the noob trap!
    You're making the same basic mistake that Deadlock is, you're assuming that what you like is what everyone else likes. Lots of people I know ONLY play End game... a few people I have met wont stop at 20 long enough to gain a single ED twist. I know someone in guild who parks characters in korthos and marketplace and helps new players every hour of their play time... they have 8 characters in guild and not one of them is over level 16...

    Fun is subjective, and MMO's are for entertainment purposes... So entertaining people who have fairly diverse tastes and extremely diverse amounts fo free time to play, will always be the best way to run an MMO.

    "if you don't like the beans don't eat chili"
    "but I love chili with no beans"
    "nope sorry you can't eat chili"

    See how much sense that makes?

    I love chili with extreme amounts of heat My wife likes it with almost no heat.

    "sorry hon I just dumped a whole thing of tobasco in the chili, when I could have just put it in my bowl, I've decided you can't eat chili if you don't like it like I do"...

    yeah sounds ridiculous right?. So does "if you don't want to play a certain part of DDO just don't play the whole game"

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    Turbine enabling people to swipe their card and bypass playing PARTS OF the game while demanding the same rewards that others who actually play the game doesn't help anyone.
    Actually it does in obvious ways. For starters MMO's traditionally have always lost players to frustration, road blocks, unfun tasks, or even tasks that some people like but other hate. MMO's historically lose players when they feel they have to play 12 hours a night to keep up with their friends. They lose players when friends can't run the same content as each other, they lose players when parts of the game are deemed unfun, yet are required to play.

    Forced grouping? Loses players (see focus on expanding solo play in DDO and many other MMO's a few years back)
    Forced PvP? Losses players (see Ultima Online)
    Forced grinds? losses players (see the XP curve of almost every old school MMO versus new ones)
    Forced long travel times? Losses players and many other.

    There's an obvious laundry list of additional features there that have historically lost player base for MMO's if you're familiar with the genre you know them, I wont belabor the point. Obviously if you don't like ONE of these "go away and play something else" is not a reasonable or thoughtful response.

    Then we have the social aspects of forcing players who don't want to be there into repeating content with players WHO DO WANT TO BE THERE.

    Consider the twists of fate in Heroic rage threads? People who enjoy heroic content having their enjoyment ruined by players who just wanted to get through it as fast as possible. Remember those?

    How about multi TR's in low level content ruining the game for new players by insisting on "no -10%, know the quest, don't suck"...

    You think it's good for the game to force people to play PARTS of it that they are bored of? I don't and I doubt seriously that you really do either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    Troll fail. Try harder kiddo. You want the kudos ... play the game.

    And it's Uber Uber Completionist if you don't mind.
    Kudos? I guess I see the problem... you're still thinking you're cementing some sort of online MMO legacy and other people buying completionist makes your "achievement" less.
    *Disclaimer: All statements are generalized without boging down in minutia. Assuming that there are ALWAYS exceptions that test the rule, variations, and un-stated details may be omitted for brevity. These can be assumed to be understood; without bloating my posts with preemptive coverass. [*] Seal[*] Scroll[*] Shard[*] Base Item - eSoS >200 runs

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    ...they did so because VIP was not sufficient by itself to maintain this game.
    Ya know, I see this kind of thing said a lot. Where were/are people getting Turbines financial info from? Why is it not entirely plausible (if not out right probable) that the strictly sub based model was in fact enough to maintain the game? I find it far more likely that the old sub model was enough to maintain it, but who in Corporate America is ever content with "enough to maintain?" Some financial genius (may have) pitched the idea that if Turbine went with the drug dealer- I mean free taste- *ahem* Free to Play model that instead of just making "enough to maintain" they could rake in "MOAR MONEY" and who doesn't want that?

    So please, enlighten me with the source of info that states DDO was going to financially crumble under the old sub model because it was insufficient to simply maintain the game and it's future development?
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  9. #29
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    So please, enlighten me with the source of info that states DDO was going to financially crumble under the old sub model because it was insufficient to simply maintain the game and it's future development?
    You don't need a source of info to make educated guesses. Though that isn't to say a source wasn't available but it has been five years since they were subscription-only and I am mostly quoting from memory at this point. Keep in mind that prior to adopting a new payment model, Turbine had gone from releasing new content every "module" as they were called to releasing very little other than some bug fixes. Almost as if they were preparing to put the game into maintenance mode.

    I do remember that server population was fairly small. I don't know about the other servers, but I remember Khyber's public instances being sparsely populated. Part of why I prefer to solo content now is simply because LFMs were not plentiful back then even with the level range limited to 1 through 16 as end game was an actual true end game. While there were those who still enjoyed running up new characters, actual new players were rare and thus treated very nicely by the older player base simply because they wanted to encourage more people to play the game.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    In the long term, it kills the game as you don't retain serious gamers and you end up with a population of transient pay-2-not-play morons.
    In my experience the average person who wants an XP stone is an end gamer who has decided to get a past life and just wants to get back to cap fast, to run with the rest of the regulars. And is not interested in or benefiting in the slightest from another 20 levels of heroic journey done the old fashioned way. In fact they're much more likely to TR train within their guild or circle of friends and never pug the entire time anyway... so not hurting anyone. In fact you're limiting exposure of new players to "grouchy old vets who forgot they were new once" and helping the social climate in the game in the long run.

    I have 6 sorc lives and 2 wizard lives on two casters already...

    I don't see why you care if the third freakin time I decided to box 3 sorc lives rather than repeat the same thing. Interesting how I did this already and yet have not left the game... Investing over a hundred bucks in a couple store items (in addition to the other hundreds I've dropped on DDO) somehow doesn't seem to have pushed me into leaving... like these so called "transient moron's" that you seem so desperate to keep in the game as non paying customers...

    Let me ask you: whats better for DDO the "moron" (your words) who never buys anything and moves on eventually? Or the one that spends $50 bucks worth of TP (I'm pretty sure "transient morons" don't wait for double points TP sales) only to leave a week later when the wind blows a passing bit of string by that catches their attention and they wander off and forget to eat and starve to death a few weeks later. (Sorry just extrapolating that the type of person -- er sorry "moron" -- who spends money on a game and then leaves, is probably also unable to feed self or find the way home).
    *Disclaimer: All statements are generalized without boging down in minutia. Assuming that there are ALWAYS exceptions that test the rule, variations, and un-stated details may be omitted for brevity. These can be assumed to be understood; without bloating my posts with preemptive coverass. [*] Seal[*] Scroll[*] Shard[*] Base Item - eSoS >200 runs

  11. #31
    Community Member fmalfeas's Avatar
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    In regards to the time shortly before going F2P, there's other things to consider as well.

    I've known quite a few players who wanted to play DDO, but when they saw that the level cap was set below 20, they changed their minds. There's a lot of D&D players who, even if they'll never reach the bog-standard level 20 'cap', don't want to play at all if outright barred from it. I'm not going to analyze the psychological aspects there, just stating the fact.

    Since those days, not only did F2P start up, giving more people a taste of the game, but 20 became cap, and then moved into epic, and Forgotten Realms content was added. Despite the wailing of the FR haters, the Realms are popular for more than Drizzt & Co. It's a setting with a rich amount of lore, many, many, many developed areas and personalities and organizations which inspire ideas in players and DMs alike, and an extremely diverse layout of societies, cultures, power levels, and even 'tech' levels. The Church of Gond isn't referenced that often, but their works border on Eberron's own level of magitech, though I've never seen them make Warforged or anything like that. They went for magic guns instead. And the Imaskari Empire took arcane magitech to heights that House Cannith hasn't even dreamed of yet.

    But I digress. Back on point, these things will almost certainly have expanded the available quantity of steady players. Though how many of them are involved in PUGing, I can't say.

    But hrm...the thing about the Imaskari gives me an idea. Hey, Turbine, if you want this one, go for it. I offically surrender any and all rights to compensation or ownership of this idea, in perpetuity. With the rift stabilized, as information flows between the worlds, House Cannith learns of the ancient Imaskari empire, and the ruins it left behind. They dispatch an expedition to cross the rift to a site one of their scouts discovered. Yet despite the skill and preparation of the expedition force, after two weeks, all contact is lost. Another scouting element is sent to see what happened...it never returned or sent a message. Realizing that something terrible has happened, House Cannith turns to the powerful adventurers of the city of Stormreach, who have bested dracoliches and deities, to find out what happened. On the sly, they offer additional compensation for 'resolving any situations' and recovery of 'objects of interest'. But what happened to the expedition and scouts? Did they run afoul of ancient traps? Trigger some long-forgotten Imaskari weapon? Or did the secretive forces of Deep Imaskar find out, and dispatch their Vengeance-takers to preserve the secrets of their ancestors? And what will the adventurers do once they find out? Can they be trusted with the relics of an empire who's works once made even the gods tremble?

    Bonus points for incorporating the Church of Bhaal, since on a few occasions since his return, his high priests have hidden in Imaskari ruins due to the very fear that those relics inspire...when you're hated, and weakned, you need some way to keep people from snuffing you out, after all.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    You don't need a source of info to make educated guesses.
    I often find the amount of education behind many of these guesses to be highly dubious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    ...Turbine had gone from releasing new content every "module" as they were called to releasing very little other than some bug fixes.
    iirc Wasn't this also attributed -at least in part- to some Atari related legal action?
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  13. #33
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    I often find the amount of education behind many of these guesses to be highly dubious.
    Most of those are made from observing the Turbine's activities, the state of the game, the player base, and reading feedback from forums both official and otherwise. I am not the type who likes to sit around waiting for the occasional tidbit dropped by Turbine as their accuracy at times has been about the same as unofficial sources.
    Last edited by Ryiah; 04-05-2014 at 10:38 PM.
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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    Fun is subjective, and MMO's are for entertainment purposes... So entertaining people who have fairly diverse tastes and extremely diverse amounts fo free time to play, will always be the best way to run an MMO.
    If you try to please everybody all of the time, you end up pleasing nobody most of the time.

    In their attempts to expand their appeal to a broader base, how many did they end up alienating in the process? (unanswerably rhetorical, I know). Sure for the D&D fan there's still nothing better out there; but with their constant perversions of and divergences from actual D&D, how many people (like me) are in "biding my time" mode just waiting for a more D&Dish game (potentially Pathfinder) to come out?

    There was time when any potential competitor would've been hard pressed to tare me away from this games content (quest) design, but that really hasn't been true since Lords March/Reign of Madness era quest releases. The same is true (again, for me) for the character design and combat systems - still better than what's out there, but between the combat and enhancement passes it's diverged so far from (again, IMO) how a D&D game should work that Turbine has significantly lowered the bar for a potential competitor. Show me a {generically named} fantasy realm MMO that acts & feels more like D&D and I'm gone - a feat that would've been much harder for another game to accomplish a couple(ish) years ago than it is today.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    If you try to please everybody all of the time, you end up pleasing nobody most of the time.
    If you only try to please the type of player who has 12 hours a day to play; your MMO folds.
    *Disclaimer: All statements are generalized without boging down in minutia. Assuming that there are ALWAYS exceptions that test the rule, variations, and un-stated details may be omitted for brevity. These can be assumed to be understood; without bloating my posts with preemptive coverass. [*] Seal[*] Scroll[*] Shard[*] Base Item - eSoS >200 runs

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    If you only try to please the type of player who has 12 hours a day to play; your MMO folds.
    The same can likely be said about targetting players with deep pockets.

    As far as time investment goes, I only spend that kind of time about 1 or 2 weekends a month, the rest is (more or less) 4-6 hours a day. I have three RL friends who play: one is the 8-12 hour a day type you speak of, another plays about 6-10 hours a week, and the third plays about as much as I do. All of us came looking looking to play D&D online, and all of us have become increasingly dissatisfied with this games evolving (mis)interpretation of that over time. In spite of our vast playtime availability differences, we're all the type of player that's looking fo a certain kind of game to play - play being the key word. If (when?) the game diverges too (much) far(ther) from D&D, we won't be rewarding Turbine with money to skip the parts we don't like, we'll just stop playing.

    People paying money to not play a game is simply unfathomable to me - I guess maybe it's just agree to disagree time?
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  17. #37
    2015 DDO Players Council Seikojin's Avatar
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    Uh, they do have a smaller xp stone. It comes with your daily dice rolls. If you are f2p, you get 100-1500 xp per day. If you are vip, you get 100-1500 per day and 1000-15000 per week.

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