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  1. #1
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    Default Max Dodge Build?

    I was just messing around with a bit of theorycraft, trying to build a somewhat viable Dodge-focused melee TWFer...but I don't know what Dodge/Max Dodge bonuses do or don't stack. Here's what I came up with, hopefully someone can tell me where I'm counting bonuses that won't stack, or maybe leaving something out:

    Halfling Monk 6/Rgr 6/Rogue 8

    Max Dodge:
    +25 Unarmored
    +3 Ninja Spy Agility
    +3 Tempest Improved Mobility
    +3 Halfling Nimble Reaction
    ------
    +34 total

    Dodge:
    10% Item
    7% Dodge/Mobility/Sneak Attack
    6% Monk Flurry of Blows
    3% Ninja Spy Acrobatic
    3% Tempest Improved Dodge
    3% Uncanny Dodge
    3% T-A Shadow Dodge
    -----
    35% base total (so, at 34% cap)

    I'm not considering EDs, since I didn't want to lock up the choices there...unless there's a huge Dodge-related feature that's worth considering? This'd also let me take Improved Evasion (Tempest) and Incorp (Ninja Spy) for more damage avoidance.

    As for temporary dodge...does Elaborate Parry stack with Uncanny Dodge clicky? Do they both ignore the Dodge cap? 10 secs of 64% dodge, or XXX secs of 84% Dodge (whats duration on Uncanny Dodge?) or possibly 100% with both?

    And am I forgetting/neglecting anything else Dodge-related?

  2. #2
    Community Member Infiltraitor's Avatar
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    Dodge Stacking Rule: 1 Item + as many feats, enhancements, class features, and destiny features as you can get your hands on.

    Unearthly Reaction is a Tier 1 Twist from Magister that gives +3 Dodge and +6 Reflex and the ability to tumble through enemies.



    As for viable, viable can mean anything from Epic Normal to Epic Elite. If you are looking at Dodge as a defensive stat, I would recommend against it due to the ability to be one-shot.

    If you have 50% dodge and 800 hit points, your chances of dying from a 800 damage hit is 50%.
    If you have 50% reduction due to PRR and 800 hit points, your chances of dying from a 800 damage hit is 0.

    Most people choose the latter, PRR.

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  3. #3
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    I guess I'd be curious if you could throw +5% Max Dodge from Shintao Tier 5 Meditation of War on there too. The penalty on that is absurd and brutal, but it's there.

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    i have a lvl 28 human pure light monk.. and i roll with a 31% dodge, 50 PRR, 120 AC, FOL finisher has hit me for over 250.. very surviveable. Shintao cap, with human healing amp as well, and PDK gloves.

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    Community Member Dreppo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMoneyMackDaddy View Post
    i have a lvl 28 human pure light monk.. and i roll with a 31% dodge, 50 PRR, 120 AC, FOL finisher has hit me for over 250.. very surviveable. Shintao cap, with human healing amp as well, and PDK gloves.
    What's the breakdown on your 31% dodge? If you got your dodge cap that high, you must have used an enhancement not listed by the OP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rimble View Post
    I guess I'd be curious if you could throw +5% Max Dodge from Shintao Tier 5 Meditation of War on there too. The penalty on that is absurd and brutal, but it's there.
    Not without giving up Improved Evasion from Tempest (Tier 5 lockout), which IMO is more valuable.

    Plus, the only way to actually fill that extra cap space (I think) would be Grandmaster of Rain stance, which on this build would mean 2 feat slots and not running in Wind Stance.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreppo View Post
    What's the breakdown on your 31% dodge? If you got your dodge cap that high, you must have used an enhancement not listed by the OP.
    He said Shintao cap, that's 5%....so 25+5+3 (Ninja Spy) could conceivably get you up to 33 just from Monk alone, albeit with the caveats mentioned above. However, by my reckoning he should be able to have more than 31% dodge...10% item, 7% feats, 6% FoB, 3% Ninja Spy, 4% Water Stance is already 30, but then he's L28 so he could squeeze more out of his EDs (GMOF has an easy 3 at least).

    That might be a better way to go, with a Halfling monk perhaps for another 3% dodge and cap, and then twist in the 3% from Magister twist and 3% from GMoF and you're up to 36. Or, add in 8 fighter for OWtB instead of Shintao cap (not a bad combo anyway), 3% cap from Kensei Imp Mobility, and you're at the same 34% base with more Monk.

    No dodge clickies though is the problem there (except for Reed in the Wind, meh...) - I know on a previous Tempest life, the Tempest clicky plus Haste and Human Damage boost all at the same time, I swore I heard the Star Music from Super Mario Bros.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infiltraitor View Post

    If you have 50% dodge and 800 hit points, your chances of dying from a 800 damage hit is 50%.
    If you have 50% reduction due to PRR and 800 hit points, your chances of dying from a 800 damage hit is 0.

    Most people choose the latter, PRR.
    How much PRR comes from enhancements and feats, though? I got the impression it was mostly from gear - and you only need to devote one gear slot to Dodge. Is it really a tradeoff, assuming you're not using heavy armor?
    Last edited by droid327; 04-04-2014 at 04:00 AM.

  8. #8
    Community Member Ausdoerrt's Avatar
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    Anybody know if Ninja Spy acrobatic has been fixed? The wiki still lists it as bugged (only granting +2% at max tier instead of +3%).
    "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. ... People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true." Terry Goodkind

  9. #9
    Community Member thegreatneil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    I was just messing around with a bit of theorycraft, trying to build a somewhat viable Dodge-focused melee TWFer...but I don't know what Dodge/Max Dodge bonuses do or don't stack. Here's what I came up with, hopefully someone can tell me where I'm counting bonuses that won't stack, or maybe leaving something out:

    Halfling Monk 6/Rgr 6/Rogue 8

    Max Dodge:
    +25 Unarmored
    +3 Ninja Spy Agility
    +3 Tempest Improved Mobility
    +3 Halfling Nimble Reaction
    ------
    +34 total

    Dodge:
    10% Item
    7% Dodge/Mobility/Sneak Attack
    6% Monk Flurry of Blows
    3% Ninja Spy Acrobatic
    3% Tempest Improved Dodge
    3% Uncanny Dodge
    3% T-A Shadow Dodge
    -----
    35% base total (so, at 34% cap)

    I'm not considering EDs, since I didn't want to lock up the choices there...unless there's a huge Dodge-related feature that's worth considering? This'd also let me take Improved Evasion (Tempest) and Incorp (Ninja Spy) for more damage avoidance.

    As for temporary dodge...does Elaborate Parry stack with Uncanny Dodge clicky? Do they both ignore the Dodge cap? 10 secs of 64% dodge, or XXX secs of 84% Dodge (whats duration on Uncanny Dodge?) or possibly 100% with both?

    And am I forgetting/neglecting anything else Dodge-related?
    Uncanny dodge is 20 seconds (2 min cooldown)
    Both parry and UC break dodge cap, not sure if they stack, but I wouldn't doubt it.
    As for max dodge cap all of those work that I know of, except hafling. they have football shaped heads, so I never play them. ( but im guessing it works for dodge cap)

    Quote Originally Posted by Infiltraitor View Post

    If you have 50% dodge and 800 hit points, your chances of dying from a 800 damage hit is 50%.
    If you have 50% reduction due to PRR and 800 hit points, your chances of dying from a 800 damage hit is 0.

    Most people choose the latter, PRR.
    As for PRR

    15 GM earth
    15 Shinto iron skin
    15 Standing with Stone ( in GMOF or tier 4 twist)
    10 Improved Parry (tier two ranger)
    24 Guardian ring
    79 PRR 35ish% (more with iconic and epic past lives)

    No reason you can't have dodge and PRR.
    Last edited by thegreatneil; 04-04-2014 at 05:28 AM.
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  10. #10
    Community Member elraido's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegreatneil View Post
    No reason you can't have dodge and PRR.
    This. There is a reason why monks are currently the king of survivability. They can have high AC, Dodge and a decent PRR. Any other class it is at best, choose two out of the three. And with the dumb bell curve of AC and PRR, there is no point in going higher than around 120-130 AC and 50ish PRR. Both easily obtainable for monks (as mentioned above). The thing with Dodge is, it works on all difficulty settings, doesn't have a curve and prevents all damage. They should have kept it as an AC modifier, not making it a separate defensive component.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    Not without giving up Improved Evasion from Tempest (Tier 5 lockout), which IMO is more valuable.
    Didn't realize that was a requirement.

    Plus, the only way to actually fill that extra cap space (I think) would be Grandmaster of Rain stance, which on this build would mean 2 feat slots and not running in Wind Stance.
    Yeah, I had been thinking this pretty much relegates you to an Unarmed Wis DC Monk. Not that that's a bad thing, you could Stunning Fist and EiN like crazy...personally not my thing though. If that were the case, I'd probably also try to go Kensei instead of Tempest and get Improved Mobility from there (Kensei stuff works with Unarmed, whereas Tempest doesn't). Kensei Improved Mobility is more AP-expensive than Tempest though.

    Wanna really stack the ever-living bejeesus out of miss chance?

    Halfling
    Wizard 12 for 35% Incorporeality, Displacement, and Death Aura healing
    5 Monk for Shintao 5 +5% Max Dodge
    3 Fighter (Imp Mobility, Feats, +Tactics)

    That gets you max Incorporeal, Displacement at will, and max Dodge (theoretically 39%!). I don't know exactly what +Dodge Enhancements/EDs to take to fill that in, but they are plentiful, especially in Water Stance.

    Ausdoerrt: Some Dev said it's a rounding/display error. It's technically giving you like 2.9% Dodge or something, and the display is truncating down to show 2%.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreppo View Post
    What's the breakdown on your 31% dodge? If you got your dodge cap that high, you must have used an enhancement not listed by the OP.
    Not in game at the moment, so going from memory, 25+5 shintao cap+3 ninja spy, but my dodge item is only 8%, dunroabar ring, in gmof. I prob could un twist cocoon, slot in either llithe or unearthly reactions, (not sure which gives more to dodge), and either would also help reflex saves.

    Also if I switch from earth to water stance, could shore up saves and dodge both I think.

    Never really thought of trying to go max dodge, figured 25-30% would be fine, whilst still maintaining a decent PRR (50-65), and 115-120 AC.

    With the right stance and a 10% dodge item, with the right ED, and twists, maybe I could get the monk to 35%

    No point really when its 31% now.

    My defense at lvl is 66-68% usually depending on stance. And ususally its earth or water. Rarely wind, and never fire.

    90% of the time im in earth stance.

    P.s. I do have both dodge and mobility feats for sure.

    Pps. One other thing, if they ever fix blitz (+50% dodge I think, which ignores dodge cap) LD destiny and blitzing all the time might be better. Especially since LD offers leg tactics, imp pwr attack, and devistating critical which stacks with OC, and in earth stance, twist in dance of flowers, sense weakness, and mabye llith, or unearthly reactions, or even grim precision, could be nice.

    Also if I havent mentioned it, im on my thrid life as a monk, with and epic TR as well, for doublestrike EPL feat.
    Last edited by GMoneyMackDaddy; 04-04-2014 at 12:13 PM.

  13. #13
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    I have a 12 ranger/7 monk/1 rogue with a standing 29% of 31% maximum dodge. Getting to dodge nearly 1/3 of every attack is really nice!

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