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Thread: Lag Spike Help?

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    Community Member bjones0064's Avatar
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    Smile Lag Spike Help?

    Hello everyone. I was hoping to get some suggestions on how to reduce some of the lag spikes I receive in game. I can watch my frames go from averaging 300 then drop to 0 and back up again. Just enough to freeze up, I hope someone else experienced this issue with a resolution.

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    Community Member Nestroy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjones0064 View Post
    Hello everyone. I was hoping to get some suggestions on how to reduce some of the lag spikes I receive in game. I can watch my frames go from averaging 300 then drop to 0 and back up again. Just enough to freeze up, I hope someone else experienced this issue with a resolution.
    Experiencing, yes, solution no. I tried to tone down my grafics, I had Akamai NetSession running and not running, I checked network load (increases significantly for lag spikes) but the cause is very unclear... Long story short, since U21 I have plenty of lag spikes, especially when I enter areas with many mobs. This on a TRed toon lv. 7 (meanwhile), on a new toon (lv. 7 ranger), on a BF Pally lv.21, on a Fighter lv. 17... So, no, it is not epic content. it is not elite content (but it helps getting less mobs spawning), it is just plain mobs spawning that cause the lag to go rampant. It´s not only mobs spawning. Over time the lag builds up, as well as "side effects" like my toons running w/o me wanting the toon to run... Annoying, to say the least. I have some more flowery and beautiful words for this, but I do not want to get banned...

    Had been getting worse since U21, actually... Slowly, gradually, but noticeably.

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    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjones0064 View Post
    Hello everyone. I was hoping to get some suggestions on how to reduce some of the lag spikes I receive in game. I can watch my frames go from averaging 300 then drop to 0 and back up again. Just enough to freeze up, I hope someone else experienced this issue with a resolution.
    Turn on: Show Network Display Icon.

    Options>UI Settings>Show the Network Status Display - sixth one down from the top.

    Depending on where you have your hotbars/UI placed, you might need to move them around to find it after you turn it on. Once on and when you experience your lag, remember there are different types of lag, hover over the icon. A popup will show your Tx/Rx, ping and Loss. Loss is the important one. Talking to people in game MANY are experiencing loss.

    Report back what you find.

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  4. #4
    Community Member Nestroy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    Turn on: Show Network Display Icon.

    Options>UI Settings>Show the Network Status Display - sixth one down from the top.

    Depending on where you have your hotbars/UI placed, you might need to move them around to find it after you turn it on. Once on and when you experience your lag, remember there are different types of lag, hover over the icon. A popup will show your Tx/Rx, ping and Loss. Loss is the important one. Talking to people in game MANY are experiencing loss.

    Report back what you find.
    OK, monitored this more closely as you suggested. Here some notices:

    Loss is building up over time in quests. Loss spikes in between with spawns comming, but loss gets from a mere background noise (0.1%-0.2%) to up to 5% over time in quests. Lag spikes make loss go up to 15% short time. Parallel the latency explodes, getting as high as 3000 ms... Latency builds up over time from about 140 ms to 600-700 in quest... Monitored for about one hour now, running tangleroot quests on elite + wilderness with a lv. 7 completionist arty in group (2 players, 2 hires, 2 pets, trying to get as many summons / hires / pets as possible). Wilderness was less loss and less latency (Ungurz and the fixed 5 hobgoblins on the way back inside Splinterskull).

    Edit: In House P the loss was back to 0.1% and the latency was back to 140-180ms. Just fyi.

    Idk what this will help, but thats what happened.
    Last edited by Nestroy; 03-30-2014 at 02:33 PM.

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    Community Member bjones0064's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    Turn on: Show Network Display Icon.

    Options>UI Settings>Show the Network Status Display - sixth one down from the top.

    Depending on where you have your hotbars/UI placed, you might need to move them around to find it after you turn it on. Once on and when you experience your lag, remember there are different types of lag, hover over the icon. A popup will show your Tx/Rx, ping and Loss. Loss is the important one. Talking to people in game MANY are experiencing loss.

    Report back what you find.
    This is all I have seen so far. The normal Latency Loss ratio can be equal and I will still freeze frame for about 1-3 seconds. The only conclusion I think of is DDO Servers are causing the issue with Server Lag.

    Normal / Lag Spike
    Latency: 52.0 / 78.6
    Loss: 0.0% / 0.1%

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    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Breath repeat after me........lag is a game feature....wuuuuuuussssssaaaaaaaaa, repeat several times, then continue playing, try to refrain from throwing PC against the wall or taking a shotgun to it.

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    Community Member bjones0064's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    Breath repeat after me........lag is a game feature....wuuuuuuussssssaaaaaaaaa, repeat several times, then continue playing, try to refrain from throwing PC against the wall or taking a shotgun to it.
    lol

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    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    It's not lag - it's Turbine's version of a Living Time Stop spell.
    53461

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    Community Member Nestroy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    It's not lag - it's Turbine's version of a Living Time Stop spell.
    Memnir, this is not funny!

    If you miss the first half of a mob battle because you lag out and you are surrounded (on a x-bow Arty) and loose half you hit points because you miss 5 seconds into the battle, this is not funny to you. You start from afar by hitting one of the mobs (two rooms away) with bows or x-bows, they (all of them 10-15 mobs) start to aggro on you and bang - lag spike, 5 seconds, and when next time you can do something, you are already surrounded and get melee killed from behind... Not funny in any way.

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    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nestroy View Post
    Memnir, this is not funny!
    I disagree - it's just not Ha Ha funny.
    This has been an issue for years now. Years. Some Updates or Events make it worse for some folks, while others go unaffected. But, it's been an issue for a very long time.

    The fact that it's still happening, unimproved and unimpeded, and Turbine is seemingy unable to fix it is, to me, very funny. Just, like I said, not Ha Ha funny.
    Dark Comedy is still comedy.
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  11. #11
    Community Member Nestroy's Avatar
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    To understand the problems with lag better, here some of my general observations:

    There seem to be at least 2, possibly 3 different annoying lag-like "features", one, perhaps 2 bount to network lag.

    First, there is a building up over time effect of running farther than intended when using keys wasd for running. The longer I run, the farther I get carried when stopping to use the key. Seems the key cache does not get cleared. It´s a similar effect to pressing the r key, just more uncontrollable. For longer runs now I use the r key. But over time this starts to get noticeable on very short runs too. Since this might be countered by pressing the key for the other direction, I at last stop correctly, but now shooting at mobs is a pain because pressing the key for the other direction only suppresses the movement, not stops it. And I am regarded as "running", so aiming and hitting is much harder on lower levels w/o shot on the run. The most annoying thing is when I am in midst of combat and without pressing any keys I start to move... Happened only twice so far. but happened. The longer I play the more annoying this effect builds up.

    Second, as soon as a larger group of mobs aggros on my toon I get a lag spike. The lag spike always is accompanied by higher packet loss (5% instead of 0.2%) and higher latency (700-800 ms instead of 150 ms, with peaks of up to 3000 ms seen). This again gets worse over time.

    Third, there is a general increase in latency and loss (small, but noticeable) building up over time. I start a quest at 0.1% loss and 140 latency and end the quest at 300-400 latency and 0.5% loss. As soon as I get back into a public area, the loss gets back to 0.1-0.2% and latency to 140-180 ms. In how far this is related to the spikes on mob aggro and perhaps to the running effects idk. All three effecty together make questing an annoying thing.

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    Community Member Ovrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nestroy View Post
    Had been getting worse since U14, actually... Slowly, gradually, but noticeably.
    Fixed that for you.

    Seriously, even since MotU, I've had these frequent freezes, where the frame rate stays at 0 for 10 to 30 seconds, while the game loads god knows what. Mostly at the exact moment a quest is completed, but not exclusively. Mobs are still free to smash my face in though during that time, cause that's fair.

    Also, since Shadowfail, if the sound is set to hardware, it will eventually completely crashes the whole computer, requiring a system reboot. Putting the sound on software bypasses the problem, but it often resets back to hardware for some Fun (tm) surprise crashes. (Many people have reported this on WinXp)

    Don't forget that in the shadow dragon raid, your frame rate dies every time the dragon uses a breath attack, no matter your computer specs.

    And yet, none of these major game-breaking bugs will probably ever get fixed... Clearly, it's not important issues. Being able to play the game is not that important, as long as the store is up and running.
    We want more Monster Manuals.

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    Community Member Nestroy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ovrad View Post
    Fixed that for you.

    Seriously, even since MotU, I've had these frequent freezes, where the frame rate stays at 0 for 10 to 30 seconds, while the game loads god knows what. Mostly at the exact moment a quest is completed, but not exclusively. Mobs are still free to smash my face in though during that time, cause that's fair.

    Also, since Shadowfail, if the sound is set to hardware, it will eventually completely crashes the whole computer, requiring a system reboot. Putting the sound on software bypasses the problem, but it often resets back to hardware for some Fun (tm) surprise crashes. (Many people have reported this on WinXp)

    Don't forget that in the shadow dragon raid, your frame rate dies every time the dragon uses a breath attack, no matter your computer specs.

    And yet, none of these major game-breaking bugs will probably ever get fixed... Clearly, it's not important issues. Being able to play the game is not that important, as long as the store is up and running.
    I have to admit that U14 did not that devastatingly lag me out. CitW always was buggy imho. Raids always had been lag fests, even pre U14. Epic rais just got that notch more lag. When I started to notice lag (except for some lag festivals like Mabar) had been after the last years big server overhaul. I before this had worked on the premisses that Wayfinder was uninhabited but lag free. Since then Wayfinder has been uninhabitet but has lag. So my save guess has been that we got a "silent server merge" where the servers are just one single server with virtual machines running on one hardware platform. While I can clearly understand such a move, it took away from the perfect gaming experience on Wayfinder. But again, what me worry.

    But since U21 lag starts to get rampant over time on lowly heroic quests. It still is an end game issue (more than ever with the Thunderholm raids) but now it gets a regular questing issue too.

    And no, it is not a hardware problem, at least not on my side. I play with the same system for about 3 years now, regular servicing it, 8 GB RAM, dedicated 2 GB Nvidia grafics card and Win7 pro 64. I even checked with my service provider but since lag happens independent from prime times (in Boston as well as here in Austria) this should not be an issue. I even went so far to check with the Akamai NetSession tool and without, no noticeable difference at all.

    There is one thing to notice through: The more people I get in a party, the more lag I get. So soloing a dungeon noticeably reduces lag. And putting a full 6 people group with summons / pets into a dungeon leads to lag spikes I usually see only in raids.
    Last edited by Nestroy; 03-31-2014 at 02:36 AM.

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    What windows version are you using? I seem to remember that windows could only have a certain number of tcp/ip connections open at one time, I wonder if this relates somehow if for some reason you keep making new connections faster than old ones can die or something like that.

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    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    If you are experiencing packet loss its probably your fault.
    You sharing internet with anyone?
    Are you playing any other online games?

  16. #16
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    when the lag monster strikes sing along folks!!!


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kmv3WlKa6U8

    Lalalalala la la lala!!!!

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    Until recently I was playing on an older Dell laptop. I was using a wired connection, settings on low, nothing else running, etc... I was experiencing the type of lag that you describe and more. The laptop meets the minimum requirements to play the game but not by much.

    A few months ago I built a desktop. I used an i7 CPU, 32 gb RAM, Radeon 8350 card, and other various high mid range components. DDO runs flawlessly on this machine. It loads fast, frame rate is through the roof on the very high setting.

    Now, since I have 2 computers that are capable of running DDO, I occasionally dual box certain quests, you know Delera's part 2, the Necro quests that require the party to split up, etc...

    The interesting thing is the laptop still shows the same lag as it did before but the desktop continues to run perfectly. I can watch two computers that share the same internet connection and only one of them has lag. It's weird.

    I think the majority of the lag that I have been experiencing is client side. There used to be a resource leak in the client, and think it's still there. The main difference is the desktop has 16x the RAM as the laptop and it can handle the drain much better.

    If the lag is server side, why does only one of my computers suffer from it?

  18. #18
    Community Member bjones0064's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheylostmyID View Post
    Until recently I was playing on an older Dell laptop. I was using a wired connection, settings on low, nothing else running, etc... I was experiencing the type of lag that you describe and more. The laptop meets the minimum requirements to play the game but not by much.

    A few months ago I built a desktop. I used an i7 CPU, 32 gb RAM, Radeon 8350 card, and other various high mid range components. DDO runs flawlessly on this machine. It loads fast, frame rate is through the roof on the very high setting.

    Now, since I have 2 computers that are capable of running DDO, I occasionally dual box certain quests, you know Delera's part 2, the Necro quests that require the party to split up, etc...

    The interesting thing is the laptop still shows the same lag as it did before but the desktop continues to run perfectly. I can watch two computers that share the same internet connection and only one of them has lag. It's weird.

    I think the majority of the lag that I have been experiencing is client side. There used to be a resource leak in the client, and think it's still there. The main difference is the desktop has 16x the RAM as the laptop and it can handle the drain much better.

    If the lag is server side, why does only one of my computers suffer from it?
    I agree with you on the point that it may be on the client side of things. I have noticed that if you uninstall and reinstall DDO it helps some but it does not resolve the issue it still happens on regular.

  19. #19
    Community Member janave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheylostmyID View Post
    Until recently I was playing on an older Dell laptop. I was using a wired connection, settings on low, nothing else running, etc... I was experiencing the type of lag that you describe and more. The laptop meets the minimum requirements to play the game but not by much.

    A few months ago I built a desktop. I used an i7 CPU, 32 gb RAM, Radeon 8350 card, and other various high mid range components. DDO runs flawlessly on this machine. It loads fast, frame rate is through the roof on the very high setting.

    Now, since I have 2 computers that are capable of running DDO, I occasionally dual box certain quests, you know Delera's part 2, the Necro quests that require the party to split up, etc...

    The interesting thing is the laptop still shows the same lag as it did before but the desktop continues to run perfectly. I can watch two computers that share the same internet connection and only one of them has lag. It's weird.

    I think the majority of the lag that I have been experiencing is client side. There used to be a resource leak in the client, and think it's still there. The main difference is the desktop has 16x the RAM as the laptop and it can handle the drain much better.

    If the lag is server side, why does only one of my computers suffer from it?
    I have asked around the forums recently for a pc build, and I was told that DDO still mostly uses single proc thread. That means unless you are running many many more apps along with DDO an i7 is quite an overkill. Same goes for the RAM, in most cases 1GB for the OS, and 3GB for the Game should be sufficient (well, not considering any leaks). The Radeon VGA you mentioned is pretty low-end, that actually could be a source of frame rates dropping when many players are firing off their fancy-skills.

    I played on an older Dell Laptop XPS cca from 2007, and there I felt that the client could have used some more resources.

    I would really want to do a cool DDO benchmark session (Charts and everything), I just have to figure out where to get a huge pile of hardware for a bargain price .

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    Some of you are referring to different types of what we perceive as lag and are caused by / come from different sources.

    In what the OP was describing, as well as Nestroy's post#2, I was seeing the same things. Until today.

    I need to do some more testing, but I actually quested in what I would describe as somewhat flawlessly for the first time in a long time today, and the only different thing I did was to trash all the awesomium.exe processes running after I logged my characters in.

    Again, I need to test this some more, but I may have found another reason why I despise Turbine introducing 3rd party BSware into the game. And they need this one for the store. Go figure.

    We'll see, time will tell.

    ...J
    Last edited by JamnJD; 04-01-2014 at 05:50 PM.
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