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Thread: Trapmaking

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    Community Member thegreatneil's Avatar
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    Default Trapmaking

    What is the DC on the mines and grenades that can be made?
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    Quote Originally Posted by blerkington View Post
    Everyone who is more effective than me is OP, and should be nerfed.
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    Community Member PolarisNC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegreatneil View Post
    What is the DC on the mines and grenades that can be made?
    DDO Wiki lists DC's for grenades that run from 12 to 28. DC's for mines apparently depend on your Disable Device skill - but those calculations look out of date to me, as they refer to the old Mechanic I and II enhancements. Hopefully you can find some up-to date entries in Coldin's Trapmaking Guide

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    Community Member Tscheuss's Avatar
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    The DC's of mines are also affected by enhancements which can increase the percentage of your DD that applies.
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    Community Member thegreatneil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PolarisNC View Post
    DDO Wiki lists DC's for grenades that run from 12 to 28. DC's for mines apparently depend on your Disable Device skill - but those calculations look out of date to me, as they refer to the old Mechanic I and II enhancements. Hopefully you can find some up-to date entries in Coldin's Trapmaking Guide
    Sadly nothing new there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    The DC's of mines are also affected by enhancements which can increase the percentage of your DD that applies.
    This would make my traps a DC of 105. That does not seem right either.

    What I'm trying to find is the formula I guess.
    You'll bend to my will - With or without your precious sanity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blerkington View Post
    Everyone who is more effective than me is OP, and should be nerfed.
    Everyone who has more stuff than me cheated to get it, and should be punished.
    Everyone who plays differently to me is a bad person, and should be mistreated.

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    Community Member Tscheuss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegreatneil View Post
    Sadly nothing new there.



    This would make my traps a DC of 105. That does not seem right either.

    What I'm trying to find is the formula I guess.
    Wow. You must have a very high DD.
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    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    The Mechanic tier 2 enhancement "improved traps" states that

    Elemental Traps that you place now have a DC equal to 65%/80%/100% of your Disable Device Skill instead of 50%.
    That's the closest to a "formula" that I can find. So base DC is half your DD, but can be improved with this enhancement.

    I believe magical traps still just have the DC of the scroll you use to make them, which means they are completely useless.
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    Community Member thegreatneil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post

    I believe magical traps still just have the DC of the scroll you use to make them, which means they are completely useless.
    Then something is off with the Tier two ability Improved Traps.

    For me they are hardly "useless".
    You'll bend to my will - With or without your precious sanity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blerkington View Post
    Everyone who is more effective than me is OP, and should be nerfed.
    Everyone who has more stuff than me cheated to get it, and should be punished.
    Everyone who plays differently to me is a bad person, and should be mistreated.

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    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegreatneil View Post
    Then something is off with the Tier two ability Improved Traps.

    For me they are hardly "useless".
    Magical traps are the ones where you use a scroll to make it and when the trap goes off it casts that spell (such as grease, sleep, hold person, etc). Are those the traps that you are saying are effective? And at what level do you use them that they are effective?

    Improved traps might also affect magical traps, but it specifically states elemental traps, not magical. It certainly wouldn't be the first time a description didn't match its effect in DDO.
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    Community Member thegreatneil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    Magical traps are the ones where you use a scroll to make it and when the trap goes off it casts that spell (such as grease, sleep, hold person, etc). Are those the traps that you are saying are effective? And at what level do you use them that they are effective?

    Improved traps might also affect magical traps, but it specifically states elemental traps, not magical. It certainly wouldn't be the first time a description didn't match its effect in DDO.
    I use traps in Haverdasher , its hard and stuff.

    Anyway...

    Ignore the video quality was having issue in fullscreen mode.

    EE Thrill of the hunt (not shown, but you can see the mobs are CR 62)




    Edit: I edited the video down, cus I died in the next room. Ha.

    I know how they work, but I want to know the specific DC's I can get.
    Cant use them in public ( or in the arena, I tried) so I can't have someone tell me.
    Last edited by thegreatneil; 04-03-2014 at 06:42 AM.
    You'll bend to my will - With or without your precious sanity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blerkington View Post
    Everyone who is more effective than me is OP, and should be nerfed.
    Everyone who has more stuff than me cheated to get it, and should be punished.
    Everyone who plays differently to me is a bad person, and should be mistreated.

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    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegreatneil View Post
    I know how they work.
    I just wanted to make sure we were talking about the same thing.

    As far as the DC, I can't offer any more than what I already have. I've looked everywhere I can think of and the info that's out there is clearly outdated. My best guess is that imrpoved traps is applying to magical traps. Enjoy it while it lasts, I guess.
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    Community Member Onetunge's Avatar
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    Trapmaking needs to be reworked completely to be of at least a little use in epic content.

    On ddo wiki there's a list of how DC used to be calculated:

    Elemental Traps

    Normal Rogue : Disable Device Skill* 1/3
    Mechanic I Rogue : Disable Device Skill* 1/2
    Mechanic II Rogue : Disable Device Skill * 2/3

    Magical Traps

    Normal Rogue: 10 + Spell Level + Intelligence Modifier
    Mechanic I Rogue: 10 + Spell Level + Intelligence Modifier + 2
    Mechanic II Rogue: 10 + Spell Level + Intelligence Modifier + 4

    I guess you could make a conection between this and:
    Elemental Traps that you place now have a DC equal to 65%/80%/100% of your Disable Device Skill instead of 50%.

    So my guess is that with all ranks in Elemental traps, your traps have DC equal to your DD.

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    This thread is old, but has anyone figured out how to calculate the DCs for magical traps? I don't have the enhancements but I just built some web traps and they worked OK for some CR 22 mobs. The video above shows them working on CR 62 mobs, so there must be a new calculation and it most likely used Disable skill. Anyway, anyone know?

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    Community Member TheBlueFox's Avatar
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    Man, I would love to know if these traps have become relevant again.

    I mean, when deepwood sniper got merged into deepwood stalker and actually became good, I was hoping these traps would also get a redo in their DCs. Up until now I haven't checked. I'd also love to know what the DCs can reach with something like sleep traps or hold persons, would make soloing easier, Noismaker + sleep trap = use lever and walk away
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  14. #14

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    check out some of nokowi's vids. He was using web traps and capturing all EE mobs without any difficulty. It just requires the mechanic tree enhancement that buffs it around your disable device skill. Yes, the DC gets ridiculous as any DC would that is based around a skill, not an ability or character level.

    Tier 2 mechanic:
    Improved Traps: +1 to the save DC's of Alchemical Trap Attacks and Magical Traps. Elemental Traps that you place now have a DC equal to 65%/80%/100% of your Disable Device Skill instead of 50%.

    Have fun with grease too, just make sure to wear the right shoes...

    The only 'drawback' to improved traps is that it requires points away from harper, something INT rogues do not do lightly.
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    Community Member TheBlueFox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saekee View Post
    check out some of nokowi's vids. He was using web traps and capturing all EE mobs without any difficulty. It just requires the mechanic tree enhancement that buffs it around your disable device skill. Yes, the DC gets ridiculous as any DC would that is based around a skill, not an ability or character level.

    Tier 2 mechanic:
    Improved Traps: +1 to the save DC's of Alchemical Trap Attacks and Magical Traps. Elemental Traps that you place now have a DC equal to 65%/80%/100% of your Disable Device Skill instead of 50%.

    Have fun with grease too, just make sure to wear the right shoes...

    The only 'drawback' to improved traps is that it requires points away from harper, something INT rogues do not do lightly.
    Okay, so thats +1 to the DC of alchemical trap attacks, meaning those spell-like abilities you get as you level. And +1 to the DC of magical traps, but...whats the DC of those to begin with? My disable device skill is somewhere in the high 60's to low 70s, so...thats freakin awesome, but I don't know what the formula is for the magical traps.

    The spell-like ability traps get a +1...that doesn't seem like a super buff to them, isn't it +1/2/3? or is seriously just +1... I believe the DC for most of those is 10-16 + Half Rogue level + int mod, figuring a 40 int, thats +15 from int. Level 20 rogue gives a +10, so thats just 35 - 41, with a +1 thats 36 - 42. That's kinda... meh?

    But what is it for the spell traps I wonder. 10 + spell level + 1/2rogue level + int mod + 1 enhancement. Thats 36 - 39, which can't be right. (figuring 40 int)
    Wisdom is a liquor store. Tastes so sweet, just wait till you wake up in the morning.

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    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBlueFox View Post
    But what is it for the spell traps I wonder. 10 + spell level + 1/2rogue level + int mod + 1 enhancement. Thats 36 - 39, which can't be right. (figuring 40 int)
    The actual DC formula is still unknown for certain. But based on his testing, nokowi concluded that it follows the same formula as elemental traps – 50/65/80/100% of your disable device skill depending on how many ranks you have in improved traps. That's the best info that anyone has been able to come up with about the actual DC. Regardless of what the actual formula is, magical traps are now very much viable and seem to be significantly improved by the improved traps enhancement.
    Last edited by CThruTheEgo; 01-07-2015 at 04:21 PM. Reason: Edited the quote so the relevance of my comment was more clear.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBlueFox View Post
    Okay, so thats +1 to the DC of alchemical trap attacks, meaning those spell-like abilities you get as you level. And +1 to the DC of magical traps, but...whats the DC of those to begin with? My disable device skill is somewhere in the high 60's to low 70s, so...thats freakin awesome, but I don't know what the formula is for the magical traps.

    The spell-like ability traps get a +1...that doesn't seem like a super buff to them, isn't it +1/2/3? or is seriously just +1... I believe the DC for most of those is 10-16 + Half Rogue level + int mod, figuring a 40 int, thats +15 from int. Level 20 rogue gives a +10, so thats just 35 - 41, with a +1 thats 36 - 42. That's kinda... meh?

    But what is it for the spell traps I wonder. 10 + spell level + 1/2rogue level + int mod + 1 enhancement. Thats 36 - 39, which can't be right. (figuring 40 int)
    The wiki lists the alchemical traps as follows:

    1. Tanglefoot: Cooldown: 30 seconds. Throws a flask of caustic liquid at your enemy, which explodes into a sticky mess. Enemies caught within by the goo puddle take 4d6 acid damage every 2 seconds (Reflex DC 10 + Half Rogue Level + Intelligence Modifier Half) and are slowed (Reflex DC 10 + Half Rogue Level + Intelligence Modifier Negates).
    2. Thunderstone: Cooldown: 12 seconds. Throws an alchemical charge at your enemy. Deals 4d6/6d6/8d6 damage and dazes in area. (Fort DC 12/14/16 + Half Rogue Level + Intelligence Modifier Negates daze).
    3. Ooze Flask: Cooldown: 12 seconds. You throw a flask at your enemy that contains concentrated grey ooze secretions. Deals 4d8/8d8/12d8 acid damage and reduces the Armor Class of your opponent by 2/4/8 for 30 seconds. (Fort DC 10 + Half Rogue Level + Intelligence Modifier Negates sunder).
    4. Time Bomb: Cooldown: 2 minutes. Creates an alchemical charge at your feet. Deals 10/25/50 sonic and 10/25/50 fire damage per rogue level to all nearby enemies after 6 seconds, and knocks them to the ground. (Reflex DC 10 + Rogue Level + Intelligence Modifier for half damage. Balance DC 10 + Rogue Level + Intelligence Modifier to Negate knockdown).


    So yes, some are half rogue level, others are full rogue level, and they all use the bonus from INT modifier. So a level 20 pure rogue with 50 INT using the tier 5 time bomb would have a damage DC of 50 plus that lousy bonus of 1 for DC of 51.

    I am not sure if one gains one more towards the DC for each epic level. I do not believe so.

    Basically, the only one that would be relevant in epic play is Time Bomb since its damage scales per level; that comes to about 2000 fire/sonic damage. It is tier 5 so one cannot assassinate.

    The advantage to these kinds of traps is that they are AOE and can be placed while stealthed. So a very patient pure Rogue mechanic theoretically can kill everything with traps and never be discovered.

    The regular traps like Web, though, are super effective for any rogue with the basic Tier 2 enhancement.
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  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    The actual DC formula is still unknown for certain. But based on his testing, nokowi concluded that it follows the same formula as elemental traps – 50/65/80/100% of your disable device skill depending on how many ranks you have in improved traps. That's the best info that anyone has been able to come up with about the actual DC. Regardless of what the actual formula is, magical traps are now very much viable and seem to be significantly improved by the improved traps enhancement.
    thx Cthru but that is not for the alchemical I presume?
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  20. #20
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saekee View Post
    thx Cthru but that is not for the alchemical I presume?
    I don't know tbh. I've never played a mechanic. My name for a repeater based trapper is artificer. At the end of his post TheBlueFox asked about spell trap DCs, so just offering what little I know. I should have edited his quote so it was more clear what my comment was about.
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