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  1. #1
    Community Member waryJerry's Avatar
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    Default Ridiculous Resistances

    I've been running Threnal recently on my lvl. 9 Monk and I've been noticing some odd resistances in some of the monsters I've been fighting--and I think I've noticed the same running other material of about the same level. What I've been seeing in Threnal, however, is being run at mormal difficulty and therefore even more upsetting. I wasn't surprised to encounter flesh renders with heavy resistance to all or almost all elemental damage but what surprised me was finding an Ice Flenser who was either heavily resistant or downright immune to fire damage. Does this make any sense at all? Common monster-killing experience would lead you to believe that a monster that was made up of one sort of element would be extremely susceptible to damage from the opposite element, would it not? I know I've also encountered fire elementals in Menechtarun who were resistant or immune to cold damage. What gives? Maybe this would make some sense at the highest level of difficulty but to encounter a fire creature who is entirely resistant to cold damage just makes no sense. Please fix this, devs.

  2. #2
    Community Member Feithlin's Avatar
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    Fire elementals cast prot from cold as a defense, thus they get resistance at the beginning, but then loose it when prot has been overcome. Mummies do the same. I see no problem, it's logical for the monster to try defending more specifically against its vulnerability. I wouldn't be shocked if some high CR elementals were casting fire shield for example.
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  3. #3
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waryJerry View Post
    I've been running Threnal recently on my lvl. 9 Monk and I've been noticing some odd resistances in some of the monsters I've been fighting--and I think I've noticed the same running other material of about the same level. What I've been seeing in Threnal, however, is being run at mormal difficulty and therefore even more upsetting. I wasn't surprised to encounter flesh renders with heavy resistance to all or almost all elemental damage but what surprised me was finding an Ice Flenser who was either heavily resistant or downright immune to fire damage. Does this make any sense at all? Common monster-killing experience would lead you to believe that a monster that was made up of one sort of element would be extremely susceptible to damage from the opposite element, would it not? I know I've also encountered fire elementals in Menechtarun who were resistant or immune to cold damage. What gives? Maybe this would make some sense at the highest level of difficulty but to encounter a fire creature who is entirely resistant to cold damage just makes no sense. Please fix this, devs.
    I dont see any problem with having a critter that has some other form of defence than just heaps of hp.
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  4. #4
    Community Member Nestroy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    I dont see any problem with having a critter that has some other form of defence than just heaps of hp.
    Me neither. Intelligent monsters > bags of hit points. Only, please have the monster intelligence at least somewhat oriented on the monster lore. Skeletons using flanking tactics (or oozes) just goes against my understanding of monster lore... And please have the monster tactics back again somewhat oriented on the physics. I now only say "shield wall".

  5. #5
    Community Member hp1055cm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waryJerry View Post
    I've been running Threnal recently on my lvl. 9 Monk and I've been noticing some odd resistances in some of the monsters I've been fighting-- Please fix this, devs.
    What they have is called DR and what you need are cold iron + good weapons. Evil Outsider bane weapons work pretty well too.
    No need to nerf the quest, just get the right equipment.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by hp1055cm View Post
    What they have is called DR and what you need are cold iron + good weapons. Evil Outsider bane weapons work pretty well too.
    I remember some weapon enhancement equivalent which made your weapon act like whatever metal type most hurts the beastie. Is something like that in DDO?

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    Community Member Nestroy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banaticus View Post
    I remember some weapon enhancement equivalent which made your weapon act like whatever metal type most hurts the beastie. Is something like that in DDO?
    Metalline, still the DR breaker of choice since October 2009.

  8. #8
    Community Member FuzzyDuck81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nestroy View Post
    Metalline, still the DR breaker of choice since October 2009.
    And now fitted as standard with all Thunderforged TM weaponry!
    I don't mean to come across as unsympathetic - but I am, so I do.

  9. #9
    Death's Dominator Eth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banaticus View Post
    I remember some weapon enhancement equivalent which made your weapon act like whatever metal type most hurts the beastie. Is something like that in DDO?
    You probably mean transmuting, which later got changed to not bypass alignment DRs and was replaced by metalline.
    Last edited by Eth; 03-27-2014 at 09:07 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feithlin View Post
    I see no problem, it's logical
    Agreed, except for one thing:

    Fire elementals aren't supposed to be able to cast that spell or use it as an SLA. So that one specifically is bogus.

  11. #11
    Community Member Gauthaag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by General_Gronker View Post
    Agreed, except for one thing:

    Fire elementals aren't supposed to be able to cast that spell or use it as an SLA. So that one specifically is bogus.
    What makes u think that? Set of PnP rules? in game where almost any toons have abilities which are not supposed for it according to PnP rules? heh

    just deal with it

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by General_Gronker View Post
    Agreed, except for one thing:

    Fire elementals aren't supposed to be able to cast that spell or use it as an SLA. So that one specifically is bogus.
    If I was a fire elemental I'd totally splash wizard levels for resist energy. Or maybe that fire ele got ship buffs?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weables View Post
    If I was a fire elemental I'd totally splash wizard levels for resist energy. Or maybe that fire ele got ship buffs?
    It is not just that fire elemental. I feel like I often meet fire elementals that have protection from energy, protecting them from the first 120 hp or so.
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  14. #14
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    How about this using your ice flenser as an example. He is so cold that it puts out the flaming portion of your weapon when it hits him thus causing no damage? I can see both ways of thinking on this subject.

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    Community Member FuzzyDuck81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rprust1 View Post
    How about this using your ice flenser as an example. He is so cold that it puts out the flaming portion of your weapon when it hits him thus causing no damage? I can see both ways of thinking on this subject.
    Understand where you're coming from here - the frostbrand greatsword has the same kind of thing going on, in that it's a cold-based weapon which also grants a degree (heh) of fire resistance... tbh now the tech's there for things like druid flameblade being made of fire & doing fire damage & celestia being made of light doing light damage, i'm also surprised they didn't just make things like the frostbite blade (which lists ice in material) as working in the same way with cold damage, and a couple of other things - would add some nice extra flavour.
    I don't mean to come across as unsympathetic - but I am, so I do.

  16. #16
    Community Member HawkFest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waryJerry View Post
    (...) what surprised me was finding an Ice Flenser who was either heavily resistant or downright immune to fire damage. Does this make any sense at all? Common monster-killing experience would lead you to believe that a monster that was made up of one sort of element would be extremely susceptible to damage from the opposite element, would it not? I know I've also encountered fire elementals in Menechtarun who were resistant or immune to cold damage. What gives?
    Well then it would make no sense that your own character could have all sorts of such resistance at the same time. Also, there are casters of such defenses : usually I run after them 1st so as to quickly end their enforcing spells over other foes (or dmg spells over the party). But yeah you're still right, it's frustrating when you think you can predetermine your defenses and offenses for having an easy way in, and it's the opposite which happens..

    That's why a sound hot-key configuration using the same bar for switching rapidly between rows (via "-" and "=" keys), is of uttermost importance. On my part I configure each bar (or row) for a complete set of varied weapons/shield + range, depending on the type of foe I could encounter (1xrange, 3xMeele weapon+shield, the rest for feats, with different combinations). I keep the potions of elemental protection on their own bar. Currently I have 6-8 rows - one for fire attacks/ice defense/retribution/etc, another for deathblock and same type of attack with different buffs, and so on. Apart from that rotating list, 2-4 other bars (3 to 5 visible bars at most at the same time). 1 for all weapons inc. 2-handed, the other for restoration spells and potions+Unyielding Sovereignty+remove curse-blindness-poisoning, the others for the different enchantment options via rings/trinkets/gloves/etc. No need for these to be on the fast access rotating list, they are variations configured to fill the gaps or bring specialized effects which could fit any situation (e.g Deathward item, Silverflame items or other such items), accessible via right-click-hold then left-click bar item and release. Sufficient. Regarding the rotating list, the trick here is to know the sequence of rows perfectly so as to quickly evaluate how many times you need to press on "-" or "=" so as to get to the correct row containing the required stuff in the heat of a battle. Which is why I consider "sets" by theme, e.g. for against ghosts/undeads, or against giants-Golems and bludgeoning/piercing creatures, etc. (which is easier to memorize in a short time whatever the items/feats you put in them). Naturally, you could even have a second level of organization by column (type of weapon, feat, spell, etc.). Basically, you'd have to organize your "matrix" by types of foes (e.g. rows) and specific type of attack/defense/feat (e.g. columns), allowing you to essentially memorize this by heart once and for all, instead of having to remember each and every weapon/item you could fumble onto during the game and put in there. It requires structure, memorization and as such practice (considering 10 to 16 rows of 10 elements in the rotating list - at most 5 bars on the screen at the same time), but once you can handle it, IMHO it's truly the most efficient way to fully control your offenses and defenses on the fly, for such instances as the one you depicted.
    Last edited by HawkFest; 08-05-2014 at 10:45 PM.

  17. #17
    Community Member Nayus's Avatar
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    Welcome to DDO. This isn't your everyday *this stuff is fire so i'll throw snowballs and he'll die* MMO.

    Fire Elementals are intelligent creatures, they can talk, feel happiness and learn to cast a Resist from Cold spell.
    You're a wizard so just dispell him.

  18. #18
    neck deep member Powskier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by General_Gronker View Post
    Agreed, except for one thing:

    Fire elementals aren't supposed to be able to cast that spell or use it as an SLA. So that one specifically is bogus.
    alot of monsters are tweaked away the D&D baseline.....I cant imagine why developers allowed this.Devils,demons are best example of ....devils :acid- full, cold -1/2, elect -full, fire-None ,gas 1/2, poison -full, silver -Full. Demons : acid- full, cold elect fire 1/2, gas1/2, Iron -Full ,Poison -full, Silver -none All base devils /Demons had same resistance to base damages because they come from the same plane/Unique can be whatever though.This stuff tripped me up a bit when new.....c'mon skeles takin cold damage is way off base. Elementals castin spells is funny as hell,thx for the laugh,though the idea wad sad from the start.
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  19. #19
    Community Member Rykka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gauthaag View Post
    What makes u think that? Set of PnP rules? in game where almost any toons have abilities which are not supposed for it according to PnP rules? heh

    just deal with it
    Well I don't care if the rule system follows PnP ADD 3.5 or 4e, but I'd like the lore/fluff to be similar, otherwise there isn't much reason to play the game. Critters like basic elementals, demons, devils are supposed to be powerful but fairly stupid brutes. They have spell like racial abilities but they aren't usually smart enough to take up wizard, wise enough to be a cleric, nor enough of a leader to be FVS or Sorc. However, I don't have a problem with orange or better representing something breaking the mold, heck even demons can splash a multiclass.
    This game is like pacman, except each pastlife in pacman made the game more difficult and in this game it gets easier.

  20. #20
    The Hatchery Nédime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nayus View Post
    Fire Elementals are intelligent creatures, they can talk, feel happiness and learn to cast a Resist from Cold spell.
    He he he they can even dance.
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