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  1. #41
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    If they'd allow name calling, what would be a proof that someone did/didn't something?

    In example of cross server card trade, I can post thread warning everyone that HungarianRhapsody is a thief because I sent him card and he didn't send card to me.
    You can post into that thread calling me a liar, then we two start arguing, calling each other names and forumities jumps on the thread, either to watch the popcorn or join the fight.

    Even if you'd post a video of you giving me a card, you couldn't prove that we had no agreement about trading. I could literally post a whining thread about sending you a card, and never receiving anything back, just to troll you. You couldn't prove that you never received card or even tell/message about trading.

    Don't get me wrong, I bellive that people should be able to warn eachother about scammers, or idiots sabotaging raids, but not without a proof.
    I absolutely understand *why* they have the policy that they do, but I still think it's a bad policy. If Turbine is going to protect scammers and cheaters from accusations that don't have proof, then I think they bear some responsibility when a person *does* have proof.

    And there are only 4 different ways in DDO that I can think of where one person could scam another, so that's at least progress compared to what they used to have.
    1) cross-server trades
    2) Ice Games winter recipes can only be mailed rather than traded in a trade window
    3) trading something BtA/BtC in a chest for something outside of a chest (e.g. I'll give you an Otto's Box for the Battlerager's Harness that dropped in your name)
    4) trades that involve more plat than will fit on one character

    There used to be more ways to scam people and I'm glad that they've made some progress on that in the last 6 years, but I still think that their policy of protecting scammers and thieves (especially when the injured party has proof of the scam/theft) is a bad one.
    No one in the world ever gets what they want
    And that is beautiful
    Everybody dies frustrated and sad
    And that is beautiful

  2. #42
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    IronClan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    Yes they do.

    Warning other players on the forums or in other areas about cheaters and scammers, those posts get deleted and Turbine expresses their displeasure with the person who had the decency to warn the community. If they stayed out of the issue entirely, that would be a very different story vs. the protection that they currently offer scammers and cheaters.
    Following your logic, the next thing to happen after the 0.1% of scammers in this game (it's really a tiny number) are "called out on the forums" with Turbine letting it happen, is that the 10% or 20% of "we don't get along" Drama squabbles all become "scammers exploiters and cheaters" openly on the forums.

    When it's okay to openly call out scammers, it's okay to openly falsly accuse someone and assassinate the character of any person in the game you dislike or have a problem with.

    And hey why stop there, on Thelanis a pretend guild lets call them "Legends LLC" (I totally made that up) is black listed across the entire end game community... Because of a few too many bad apples, lets make it the entire game that black lists them (due to a few bad apples) by posting about it on the forums. That way they never get even a chance to punt their bad apples and turn their reputation around.

    I know several players who have made some enemies, who's enemies already do dumb ess like making mule characters that spoof their names with an extra letter at the end, and fake guilds that have an extra letter or slight change, and then they LITERALLY (this is a true story and will be recognizable to any Thelanis channel regular) scamm new players in harbor trying to get the real person a bad name. They post BS and false information under the "spoof" name...

    We should let them do this freely on the forums? Seriously think it through people.
    You guys filibustering a new mode have already succeeded in scaring the Dev's into not doing it the right way and re-scaling the existing settings, why in the world are you still filibustering? Drunk on your success? Schadenfreude? Spitefulness?

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    I absolutely understand *why* they have the policy that they do, but I still think it's a bad policy. If Turbine is going to protect scammers and cheaters from accusations that don't have proof, then I think they bear some responsibility when a person *does* have proof.

    And there are only 4 different ways in DDO that I can think of where one person could scam another, so that's at least progress compared to what they used to have.
    1) cross-server trades
    2) Ice Games winter recipes can only be mailed rather than traded in a trade window
    3) trading something BtA/BtC in a chest for something outside of a chest (e.g. I'll give you an Otto's Box for the Battlerager's Harness that dropped in your name)
    4) trades that involve more plat than will fit on one character

    There used to be more ways to scam people and I'm glad that they've made some progress on that in the last 6 years, but I still think that their policy of protecting scammers and thieves (especially when the injured party has proof of the scam/theft) is a bad one.
    Yep. No different if a player cheats another player or someone takes advantage of bug in game mechanic. So if another bug comes up, what Turbine enforces is take advantage of it.
    Got it Turbine.

  4. #44
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    Following your logic, the next thing to happen after the 0.1% of scammers in this game (it's really a tiny number) are "called out on the forums" with Turbine letting it happen, is that the 10% or 20% of "we don't get along" Drama squabbles all become "scammers exploiters and cheaters" openly on the forums.

    When it's okay to openly call out scammers, it's okay to openly falsly accuse someone and assassinate the character of any person in the game you dislike or have a problem with.

    And hey why stop there, on Thelanis a pretend guild lets call them "Legends LLC" (I totally made that up) is black listed across the entire end game community... Because of a few too many bad apples, lets make it the entire game that black lists them (due to a few bad apples) by posting about it on the forums. That way they never get even a chance to punt their bad apples and turn their reputation around.

    I know several players who have made some enemies, who's enemies already do dumb ess like making mule characters that spoof their names with an extra letter at the end, and fake guilds that have an extra letter or slight change, and then they LITERALLY (this is a true story and will be recognizable to any Thelanis channel regular) scamm new players in harbor trying to get the real person a bad name. They post BS and false information under the "spoof" name...

    We should let them do this freely on the forums? Seriously think it through people.
    [ArloGuthrie]once more, with feeling[/ArloGuthrie]

    I absolutely understand *why* they have the policy that they do, but I still think it's a bad policy. If Turbine is going to protect scammers and cheaters from accusations that don't have proof, then I think they bear some responsibility when a person *does* have proof.

    And there are only 4 different ways in DDO that I can think of where one person could scam another, so that's at least progress compared to what they used to have.
    1) cross-server trades
    2) Ice Games winter recipes can only be mailed rather than traded in a trade window
    3) trading something BtA/BtC in a chest for something outside of a chest (e.g. I'll give you an Otto's Box for the Battlerager's Harness that dropped in your name)
    4) trades that involve more plat than will fit on one character

    There used to be more ways to scam people and I'm glad that they've made some progress on that in the last 6 years, but I still think that their policy of protecting scammers and thieves (especially when the injured party has proof of the scam/theft) is a bad one.
    No one in the world ever gets what they want
    And that is beautiful
    Everybody dies frustrated and sad
    And that is beautiful

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenaphon View Post
    Who cares if people cheat? It is a game. I never understood people worrying about what other people do in the game. Personally, I have benefited from other people duping. I bought Draconic Soul Gem and True Imperial blood Globe from auction house with plat and I know they could not have sold it for plats without duping. Important thing is, are you having fun playing?
    Duping helps people get equipment at low prices.
    Duping hurts the honest, long-term, elite players who hoard equipment/mats as a source of in-game wealth.
    Duping means its pointless to farm up more equipment than you need, unless you convert that to AS immediately.
    Right now, the correct approach is to keep all your wealth in the most non-dupable currency : AS.
    That means people do not need as many inventory slots or bags. This depresses inventory/bag sales
    That means items from new content will be placed on the ASAH immediately rather than kept for later sale, because they can suddenly become worthless later. This depresses new content sales. Why buy content when every item is available on the ASAH. And the only bound items are raid items, which you have a very low chance of farming up anyway.
    When the only dimension of in-game wealth that matters is AS, this means that RL wealth translates directly into in-game wealth. There is no point in being an honest, skilled player. You are wildly outclassed at in-game wealth by exploiters/dupers and rich people.

    So yes, Turbine should care about duping. And they do.... just sometimes not quickly enough.

  6. #46
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timap View Post
    Duping helps people get equipment at low prices.
    Duping hurts the honest, long-term, elite players who hoard equipment/mats as a source of in-game wealth.
    Duping means its pointless to farm up more equipment than you need, unless you convert that to AS immediately.
    Right now, the correct approach is to keep all your wealth in the most non-dupable currency : AS.
    And when there is a bug that allows AS duping (general disclaimer: I don't know of one - don't PM me asking for how to do it), then things will really go to hell.
    Last edited by HungarianRhapsody; 03-26-2014 at 11:57 AM.
    No one in the world ever gets what they want
    And that is beautiful
    Everybody dies frustrated and sad
    And that is beautiful

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    I agree with this 100%. I still have a problem with Turbine's policies.

    I don't expect Turbine to do anything about people cheating each other in trades, but the fact that Turbine actively protects cheaters and frauds with their policies is a problem. Turbine wants to be neutral? Fine. Turbine actively protects cheaters and punishes players who try to warn other players? Not fine.
    Every MMO disallows spreading negative information about other players via their media because that information isn't verified. You can say you have a screenshot but those can be tampered with. And the MMO company doesn't have the manpower to investigate each claim to see which are true and which are players spreading lies about other players. There is nothing wrong with Turbine's policies in this regard.

  8. #48
    Community Member alvarego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timap View Post
    So yes, Turbine should care about duping. And they do.... just sometimes not quickly enough.
    Well maybe they try, but honestly they don't really succeed, want proof? last night was in a VoN5 EH run ... how much are the chest in there worth? kinda nothing right?, so I am a rogue and I feather fall from northern right side to left side to the locked chest, a toon from a "very well-known duppers guild in Cannith" comes with me, I am a rogue, guy doesn't wait for me to pick lock the chest that has really only vendor trash inside, simply straight hits a bell of opening to get the vendor trash ... now figure out, how much dupping has those guys done to waste bells of opening in such a stupid way?

    Hint: A LOT!!!

    Axiom: Turbine is losing a lot of income with that, I can't understand what are they waiting to act
    Proud member of Lotusfly's squelch list!

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenaphon View Post
    Who cares if people cheat? It is a game. I never understood people worrying about what other people do in the game. Personally, I have benefited from other people duping. I bought Draconic Soul Gem and True Imperial blood Globe from auction house with plat and I know they could not have sold it for plats without duping. Important thing is, are you having fun playing?
    Duping negatively affects the economy. When people are selling items for cheap because they duped a hundred of them, that lowers the value of the ONE item that a player got by playing the game. Now the honest player can't make the money they would have made if that item was as rare as it should be.

    Its a very simple concept that people who enjoy / support cheating can't seem to grasp.

  10. #50
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    Default Like HGH in baseball

    It is beyond frustrating that this is allowed to go on. Infuriating more like it. And what it does is cause a trickle effect because the honest player can't compete with the duped player so like in baseball everyone gets on HGH to just stay competitive. How is my raid ever going to fill when a cheaters raid promises raid bypass timers for any who need? It's a ridiculous state of affairs and this more than anything else will eventually lead to me losing interest in the game. If it takes honest players months of game play to make an item and a Duper can make it in a day then you have a massive competitive balance problem.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    I read it and he has a lot of good points.
    It took a bit longer but i read it too and agree there's a lot of good points
    In his post. I always was a bit skeptical when turbine was tryng to make a
    Fast buck n the cashshop but when you read his story it does make a bit more
    Sense and i understand their reasons better now.

  12. #52
    The Hatchery Hoglum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    2) Ice Games winter recipes can only be mailed rather than traded in a trade window

    Is this true? I traded some recipes for plat & the fellow I was trading with said he never received the recipes. I traded him some more & I'm pretty sure they left my inventory. He said he never got them & I thought he was scamming me. If he never did get the recipes then I accidentally scammed him.

  13. #53
    Community Manager Cordovan's Avatar
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    Discussing exploits is prohibited. This thread is now closed. The OP's comment appears to be about a poor trade issue. We do not get involved in player trading disputes, sorry. People have adequately explained in this thread why we don't permit people to publicly call out others on the forums.
    Have fun, and don't forget to gather for buffs!
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